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SnakebyteXX
04-22-2006, 04:42 AM
By Craig Shirley
Saturday, April 22, 2006; Page A21

The immigration reform debate has highlighted a long-standing fissure in the GOP between the elitist Rockefeller business wing and the party's conservative populist base. Whether the two groups can continue to coexist and preserve the Republican majority is increasingly doubtful as conservatives begin to consider -- and in some cases cheer -- the possibility that the GOP may lose control of Congress this fall.

The two camps are deeply divided. The business elites are interested in a large supply of cheap labor and support unfettered immigration and open borders. The populist base supports legal immigration but is concerned about lawlessness on our border, national sovereignty and the real security threat posed by porous borders.

There is nothing new about this division. It is a 40-year-old fight that has its roots in the cultural, economic, regional and ideological differences between the two camps. Still, most conservatives felt that after the victory of Ronald Reagan and the Republican Revolution of 1994 their point was made and the country-clubbers would know their place. They were wrong. The Rockefeller wing is now attempting to reassert its control over the party and is openly hostile toward the Reagan populists who created the Republican majority in the first place.

Major Republicans have taken to attacking others within their own party as unsophisticated nativists. In a recent Wall Street Journal column, former Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie warned populists to cease and desist from promoting "border enforcement first" legislation. "Anti-immigration rhetoric is a political siren song, and Republicans must resist its lure," he said. And in a recent editorial, the Weekly Standard's Bill Kristol attacked populist Republicans for not recognizing the danger of "turning the GOP into an anti-immigration, Know-Nothing party."

Conservatives see this kind of rhetoric as inflammatory, anti-intellectual and offensive. Far from being driven by xenophobia and intolerance, conservative populists are motivated by a profound respect for the rule of law and by a patriotic regard for America's sovereignty and national security. Upholding the rule of law and protecting our country's borders is important to conservative populists and to most Americans.

To make their argument, some establishment Republicans are invoking Ronald Reagan's name. In fact, Reagan argued that it was our government's duty to "humanely regain control of our borders and thereby preserve the value of one of the most sacred possessions of our people: American citizenship." Reagan was pro-legal immigration, pro-patriotic assimilation and in step with other populist conservatives.

The Republican Party is now unraveling. Sept. 11, 2001, and the war on terrorism stanched a lot of wounds inside the party, but resentment is growing over steel tariffs, prescription drug benefits, a League of Nations mentality, the growth of government and harebrained spending, the McCain-Feingold campaign finance law, the increasing regulation of political speech in the United States and endemic corruption. On top of all the scandals, it has just come to light that the RNC paid millions in legal bills to defend operative James Tobin, who was convicted with associates in an illegal phone-jamming scheme aimed at preventing New Hampshire Democrats from voting. In doing so, the GOP appears to sanction and institutionalize corruption within the party.

The elites in the GOP have never understood conservatives or Reagan; they've found both to be a bit tacky. They have always found the populists' commitment to values unsettling. To them, adherence to conservative principles was always less important than wealth and power.

Unfortunately, the GOP has lost its motivating ideals. The revolution of 1994 has been killed not by zeal but by a loss of faith in its own principles. The tragedy is not that we are faced with another fight for the soul of the Republican Party but that we have missed an opportunity to bring a new generation of Americans over to our point of view.

All agree that the Democrats are feckless and without a plan or agenda. But most Americans are now presented with a choice between two parties that are both addicted to power -- the Democrats to government power and Republicans to corporate and governmental power. Who speaks for Main Street Reaganism?

It was the populists under Reagan, and later under Newt Gingrich, who energized the party, gave voice to a maturing conservative ideology and swept Republicans into power. We would be imprudent and forgetful to disregard this. But it may be too late, because conservatives don't want to be part of the looming train wreck. They know that this is no longer Ronald Reagan's party.

Craig Shirley, of Shirley & Banister Public Affairs, is the author of "Reagan's Revolution," a book about the 1976 campaign, and is now writing "Rendezvous With Destiny" about the successful 1980 campaign. His firm has clients concerned with immigration issues.


web page (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/21/AR2006042101593.html)

Deeman3
04-22-2006, 06:07 AM
SnakebyteXX,

Thisis a very accurate article about the situation.


Deeman

Samson
04-22-2006, 06:48 AM
Craig Shirley's politics are slightly to the right of Attila the Hun, so I'm not surprised he sees the sky falling towards the "moderate" policies of Bush in paticular, and the Republican party in general.

Frankly, I seem party politics, Republican, Democratic, Libertarian whatever, having a declining influence as a greater portion of the population becomes independent. I'm kinda hoping for another Ross Perot-like candidate to arise in 2008.

Drop1
04-22-2006, 08:36 PM
It would be great to see a Ross type guy,with the pie charts,and simple explanations the average person could understand. These days it would take a few more charts,to explain the two billion we spend a day,and where your kid is going to work,and why are their so many people at the one billion dollar consulate in Iraq. It would be great to see more independents asking why we have to stay the course.

Gayle in MD
04-24-2006, 03:20 AM
The best way to accomplish that is to do it by defending our own Constitution and laws right here in America, IMO, and the shortest route to that is to dismantle the republican majority in both houses, so that investigations can lead to the impeachment of this most corrupt, incompetent administration in the history of our country!

Gayle in Md.
So Proud I Didn't Vote For George Bush!

Samson
04-24-2006, 07:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> The best way to accomplish that ....and the shortest route to that is to dismantle the republican majority in both houses.... <hr /></blockquote>

The best way to accomplish "That?"

Here is a great example of how partisan politics will once again destroy all effective discourse. "That" goal is never expressed, and the only solution to any problem is to change the party in majority.

It seems, Galye, you've bought into the proposition that the biggest problem the country faces is changing the party, not changing the laws, or the policies, or whatever would make a substantive difference.

pooltchr
04-24-2006, 09:39 AM
Sampson,
According to Gayle, all the problems of the world will be resolved when GW is no longer in office.
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-24-2006, 10:23 PM
Samson Writes...

The best way to accomplish "That?"

Here is a great example of how partisan politics will once again destroy all effective discourse. "That" goal is never expressed, and the only solution to any problem is to change the party in majority.
When the party in power practices unprecedented corruption, yes, it is appropriate to get rid of all of them, regardless of which party has abused their power.
It seems, Galye, you've bought into the proposition that the biggest problem the country faces is changing the party, not changing the laws, or the policies, or whatever would make a substantive difference.

You are obviously not familiar with my posts. I have stated over and over again that true campaign reform, publically financed, and a civilian committee of watch in the Congress, and the Senate, is our only hope. Also, that our laws should be protected, first and foremost, and as for policies, I, along with 68% of Americans, according to the most recent CNN polls, think the present policies of the Bush administration are destructive. At this time, it is far too dangerous, IMO, not to hold George Bush accountable for his lies, law breaking, and war crimes. The LAW, my friend, is precisely what I am concerned about.

FYI...I would think so, regardless of which party was in power, if said party had lied, been reckless with our money, broken our laws, and treaties, as this administration has. I would be calling for impeachment! In another thread, Hondo, a teacher, has stated that the kids in his school are so disillusioned by Bush, they don't even want to say the Pledge Of Alleigence. This is the resulting tragedy when our youth see that we do not demand adherence to our laws, and the principles of democracy. The partisanship, IMO, is on the side of the right, which cares only that their party stay in power, due to their ripened hatred of what they think, and I do mean "Think" is a liberal agenda. The Law must come first, and this administration has broken it many times, and also chipped away at our Constitutional rights. This is the MOST unlawful administration I have witness in my sixty-one years. We NEED to impeach the lying law breakers!

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
04-24-2006, 10:28 PM
Correction...We can start working on our problems effectively once again, when we get rid of Bush, and the corrupt Republican Majority in the Congress, and the Senate.
Ofcourse, we'll have to plow our way out of massive debt, AGAIN, just like we had to do after eight years of Reaganomics! I'm tired of the rich robbing the poor and middle class, and sending the children of the poor to war for the sake of building corporate profits!

Gayle in Md.
So Proud I Did Not Vote For George Bush! The worst president in the history of this Nation~!

DickLeonard
04-25-2006, 06:28 AM
Samson what good are Laws if they are not Obeyed. When someone assumes the Role of Dictator that is when Revolution is the only Solution.####

DickLeonard
04-25-2006, 12:53 PM
Gayle you cannot tell me that there isn't a Right Wing Conservative Plot to destroy our government's fiscal integrity by putting us so far in debt that we cannot pay our retirees Social Security. Thereby destroying that System forcing us into a Security based system where the financial institutes can rape us.

Reagan put us two trillion in debt,Clinton the liberal cleaned the slate and now George the Idiot has put us two trillion in debt again.

You cannot make any sense of a Conservative putting us so far in debt, it is the only logical conclusion that I can draw.

Thanking God I have never voted for a Republican.####

pooltchr
04-25-2006, 03:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Reagan put us two trillion in debt,Clinton the liberal cleaned the slate and now George the Idiot has put us two trillion in debt again.

<hr /></blockquote>

I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but Clinton did NOT wipe the slate clean. He just slowed the spending growth rate. I don't know where you get your facts, or if you bother to study the fiscal reports before repeating the dem spin, but the fact is that there was NO SURPLUS during the Clinton administration.
Steve

moblsv
04-25-2006, 04:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Reagan put us two trillion in debt,Clinton the liberal cleaned the slate and now George the Idiot has put us two trillion in debt again.
<hr /></blockquote>

I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but Clinton did NOT wipe the slate clean. He just slowed the spending growth rate. I don't know where you get your facts, or if you bother to study the fiscal reports before repeating the dem spin, but the fact is that there was NO SURPLUS during the Clinton administration.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

the budget had a surplus. look it up

the nation still had a debt but we were heading in the right direction.

moblsv
04-25-2006, 04:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>
I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but Clinton did NOT wipe the slate clean. He just slowed the spending growth rate.<hr /></blockquote>

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy07/hist.html

oh, how I long for a "just slowed spending growth rate" again

DickLeonard
04-26-2006, 07:06 AM
Pooltchr my premise is that Conservatives are a lying sack of S--t. Their plotting to ruin the Country plain and simple. There is no other answer for their behavior. They are not Conserving anything, they are more Liberal than Liberals. The proof is in the Budget deficits.####

eg8r
04-26-2006, 07:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Samson what good are Laws if they are not Obeyed. <hr /></blockquote> Which is his point. The focus on just changing the party does not solve the problem. Enforcing some sort of accountability is the only way. You know just as well as the rest of us, the Dems are just as corrupt as your believe the Reps are. Changing the party is not going to change anything except the face.

eg8r

eg8r
04-26-2006, 07:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You are obviously not familiar with my posts. I have stated over and over again that true campaign reform, publically financed, and a civilian committee of watch in the Congress, and the Senate, is our only hope. <hr /></blockquote> Ha ha, I don't think you are familiar with your posts. Thanks for the giggle. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

DickLeonard
04-26-2006, 08:45 AM
EG8R I am still waiting for your reply after googling the Bush Crime Empire. They make the Italians look like BoyScouts.
How do you get pieces of Business Enterprises with no money down. Just give them state contracts and they are willing to Invest in Family Schemes. I Guarantee if there is a God and Heaven you won't find a Bush there. Not even Barbara and not our Barbara.####

Gayle in MD
04-26-2006, 12:17 PM
I agree, Dick, and also, I thought from the start that Americans wouldn't be dumb enough to put the U.S. oil cartel
into the White House. As far as I'm concerned, the first Bush was already one Bush too many!

Now that the righties on here can no longer deny that their King is a liar, and their party is the most corrupt in history, they don't see any value in changing the party in the White House, and on the hill, AH HA HA HA...typical right wing extremist thinking! Denial is their only game, they deny all that Democrats accomplish, and deny all the incompetence and destruction that Republicans display. Denial Denial Denial, even regarding the Clinton Surplus...no wonder this country is in a mess!

I'm just waiting to see if these crooks will have the balls to throw another election! Bush is a great one to be preaching democracy!

Love,
Gayle

pooltchr
04-26-2006, 12:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> they deny all that Democrats accomplish, <hr /></blockquote>

And other than creating give-away programs and raising taxes, what might that be??????????????????
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-26-2006, 12:47 PM
You call them give away programs. I call them programs which assisted the needy, the hungry, the uneducated, and the oppressed in this country. I suppose you are much happier with give away programs, as long as the money is given to the wealthy?

AND you obviously don't see any problem with a President making his rich cronies richer, sending our troops to war on lies, breaking our laws, and paying for his tax cuts with BORROWED money, instead of raising taxes. Even Greenspan said this was stupid

. As I have stated before, this is the most incompetent presidency in the history of this country, but you defend them. Maybe when the government presents you, and each in your family with your thirty thousand dollar bill for the money they gave to the rich, you'll understand why it is stupid to implement tax cuts while borrowing trillions of dollars from one of our potential future enemies, China, which is raping us daily through faulty trade practices. Wartime, is no time for tax cuts anyway.

Gayle in Md.
SO PROUD I DIDN'T VOTE FOR GEORGE BUSH!!!!

pooltchr
04-26-2006, 01:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> You call them give away programs. I call them programs which assisted the needy, the hungry, the uneducated, and the oppressed in this country. I suppose you are much happier with give away programs, as long as the money is given to the wealthy? <font color="red">When you take money from the working class (taxes) and redistribute that money to those who are living on government assistance, this is pretty close to communism. It's called redistribution of wealth, and it SUCKS! </font color>

AND you obviously don't see any problem with a President making his rich cronies richer, sending our troops to war on lies, breaking our laws, and paying for his tax cuts with BORROWED money, instead of raising taxes. Even Greenspan said this was stupid

. As I have stated before, this is the most incompetent presidency in the history of this country, but you defend them. Maybe when the government presents you, and each in your family with your thirty thousand dollar bill for the money they gave to the rich, you'll understand why it is stupid to implement tax cuts while borrowing trillions of dollars from one of our potential future enemies, China, which is raping us daily through faulty trade practices. Wartime, is no time for tax cuts anyway.

Gayle in Md.
SO PROUD I DIDN'T VOTE FOR GEORGE BUSH!!!!

<font color="red"> My post was in response to one line in your post regarding the so called accomplishments of the democrats. I should have known you would take the opportunity to repeat the same old same old same old stuff you put in practically every post you make. Once in a while, just for the heck of it, why don't you try to come up with something new? Maybe even something of your own rather than all the garbage you repeat from your liberal buds in DC? If I want to hear that kind of garbage, I can turn on CNN. </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
04-26-2006, 01:59 PM
AH HA HA HA...gee what do you call taking money from the middle class and giving it to the rich? I'll tell ya, it's called the Bush Tax Cuts!
My post was in response to one line in your post regarding the so called accomplishments of the democrats. I should have known you would take the opportunity to repeat the same old same old same old stuff you put in practically every post you make. That's right, Steve, I figure if I say it often enough, it just might sink into that thick head of yours that George Bush is a liar, and a lawbreaker. How DO you justify supporting the most corrupt party in the history of this nation, and the dumbest president ever? Just curious. Once in a while, just for the heck of it, why don't you try to come up with something new? Maybe even something of your own rather than all the garbage you repeat from your liberal buds in DC? If I want to hear that kind of garbage, I can turn on CNN
HA HA HA, oh no, you wouldn't want to turn on CNN, you might just hear some truth! Frankly, I don"t think you could handle it!

Gayle in Md.
SO PROUD I WASN:T ONE OF THE DUMMIES THAT VOTED FOR GEORGE BUHS!!!

Deeman3
04-26-2006, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>Gayle in Md.
SO PROUD I WASN:T ONE OF THE DUMMIES THAT VOTED FOR GEORGE BUHS!!! <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">No, you were one of the dummies that could not defeat George Bush twice.... </font color>

pooltchr
04-26-2006, 03:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>Gayle in Md.
SO PROUD I WASN:T ONE OF THE DUMMIES THAT VOTED FOR GEORGE BUHS!!! <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">No, you were one of the dummies that could not defeat George Bush twice.... </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

LOL!
Steve

wolfdancer
04-26-2006, 03:48 PM
Gayle, you and Steve have this never ending arguement, and you'll never come to an agreement.
He objects to the communistic Dems giving away million of his tax dollars for support programs for the poor, neeedy, etc....and truthfully, many of these monies are wasted.
As for the trillions spent on the war, the record profits of the oil companies, the buddy contracts given to Haliburton, etc....that can be explained, and justified
I was watching ' The Godfather" (again) the other night, and as they were going to put a bullet into the guys brain...he says "Tell Michael, it was only business"
See, "only business" justifies everything, the war, the carnage, the Katrina f.u....under the Republican laissez-faire system, where big companies do not have to answer to the government, are allowed to continue in operation, unchecked, while scoffing at anti-monoply laws.
Them unjust laws wouldn't be there in the first place, if the GOP had it's way. We'd just have two companies, WalMart, for all things domestic, and WarMart, to take care of the political unrest that occurs from time to time, put down the uprising.
Money wouldn't be a problem, there wouldn't be any...you would just earn credits to be exchanged for goods at the company store

pooltchr
04-26-2006, 04:40 PM
And if you really wanted to beat the system, you could buy stock in Wal-mart! Then you could share in some of those evil profits as well!

I wonder how many people on this board look at their 401K statements, retirement portfolio, or other investment returns hoping to see their value increasing. Now, how many of those funds do you think have money invested in stocks in companies like Haliburton, Exxon-Mobil, and those other evil capitalistic corporations. Guess what! When their profits go up, so does your own net worth.
Don't have anything invested in anything like that? Guess you are hoping the government is going to take care of you in retirement.

I am really tired of hearing people complain about business making a profit. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE IN BUSINESS! If the government ever steps in and tries to put a cap on profits, businesses lose interest in production, supply drops, demand increases, and prices go up. This is exactly what happened back in the 70s. For those of you too young to remember, the government ended up telling us when we could buy gas and when we couldn't. And if the lines were too long on your day, or the gas stations ran out of gas, too bad. You had to wait until your day came up again.

Business is what makes this country work. It produces goods and services, creates jobs, generates paychecks, funds retirement savings for millions of people. Damn Right! I hope they all keep making profits. Because when they stop, this country can join the rest of the third world. Just something to think about....if Microsoft wasn't a profitable company, how many of us would have access to this forum?????????
Steve

hondo
04-26-2006, 04:49 PM
Well in West Virginia all Rove had to say was "kerry's
gonna take away your guns" and they would have voted for
anybody who ran against him, Hitler included.
He convinced Ameriduh that the absent national guard,
not the Viet Nam vet, was the hero. Catholics would
go to hell for voting for the Catholic, Bush is an anti-
abortion, GOOD Christian, the Iraq war was getting even
for 9/11,Bush is a conservative.
And the American people bought it. If that doesn't make
them dummies, what does?
AND we've still got a few posters on here defending him!
Good Grief, Charlie Brown!

<font color="blue">No, you were one of the dummies that could not defeat George Bush twice.... </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
04-26-2006, 09:50 PM
No, I was one of the Americans who realized that our votes don't count when republicans start their usual crooked election fraud.

There's no dummy like a dummy who would vote for an obvcious fraud like George Bush! Except, one who would continue to defend him after he's been proven a liar and a law breaking crook!

Gayle in Md.

Damn proud I didn't vote for Bush!

Gayle in MD
04-26-2006, 09:59 PM
Righties can only think in terms of extremes, they can't distinguish between Americans being gouged by Oil Corporations, and businesses making a fair profit. It's called REBONICS! Republican communication fraud!

Gayle in Md.
So Proud I Wasn't One of the DUMMIES Qho Voted for George Bush!

SPetty
04-27-2006, 06:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> I am really tired of hearing people complain about business making a profit. THAT IS WHY THEY ARE IN BUSINESS!<hr /></blockquote>I think people are unhappy with the obscene profit that the oil companies have made recently, off the backs of "decent hardworking Americans" that have no other viable choice but to continue to buy gasoline to power their motor vehicles in order to get to work. I don't think people complain about business in general being profitable.

Gayle in MD
04-27-2006, 07:10 AM
Tap Tap Tap, you are correct, amazing how the true issues get skewed by the one extreme or the other, republican type thinking, opr should I say non-thinking?

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
04-27-2006, 07:32 AM
Susan,
The oil companies have been profitable, no doubt. But if they are making such huge profits, why isn't someone else coming along who can do it cheaper, and cutting into their businesses. Years ago, the airlines were thought to be making huge profits. What happened? Discount carriers came along and forced everyone to cut prices. Why hasn't El-Cheapo gas and oil come along to offer some competition? Surely there is a demand for cheaper gas. Maybe it's not as profitable as we are being lead to believe. How much money do you think the oil companies LOST when Katrina destroyed all the drilling and processing facilities in the gulf?
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-27-2006, 07:41 AM
GIVE ME A BREAK! Do have any idea what the CEO's are making annually? Have you seen the statistical information on what the oil companies are making in profits and tax cuts, and what they are spending in research and investments in furute oil dependence? Why the hell do you think the prices go up at vacation time? Honestly, you've got the worst case of naivete' I've ever witnessed.

pooltchr
04-27-2006, 09:04 AM
Any your head is buried so far up your butt that you can't understand that the success of our country rests in the hands of business and not government controls. It's useless to try to talk to you because you are so emotional you can't think straight.
Steve

eg8r
04-27-2006, 09:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
EG8R I am still waiting for your reply after googling the Bush Crime Empire. They make the Italians look like BoyScouts.
<hr /></blockquote> I have been away a while what are you referring to.

eg8r

DickLeonard
04-27-2006, 09:43 AM
Pooltchr I don't think you read the business news anytime a new gas saving device is invented the Saudis buy they patent. If it really works they bury it.####

Sid_Vicious
04-27-2006, 10:14 AM
"Honestly, you've got the worst case of naivete' I've ever witnessed."

It's called "recessed cranial rectumitis"...sid

pooltchr
04-27-2006, 10:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Pooltchr I don't think you read the business news anytime a new gas saving device is invented the Saudis buy they patent. If it really works they bury it.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Is this some new conspiracy theory I haven't heard about yet?
Steve&lt;---just love conspiracy theories!!!!

Gayle in MD
04-27-2006, 06:01 PM
Thank you, that's a perfect description of his EMOTIONAL attachment to George Bush!

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
04-27-2006, 06:30 PM
AH HA HA HA HA...Bush, gives huge tax cuts to Corporate Oil and Corporate Pharmaceuticals, and they turn around and gouge the American Public, and you can't see the difference between Corporate Fascism, and fair trade practices....ha ha ha ...What do YOU call huge tax cuts for certain corporations? I call it redustribution of wealth, aka, your definition of communism. Too much money and power in too few hands, and the Corporate fascists calling the shots in this country. Corporations, which, just coincidentaly, of course, made huge contributions to the Bush campaign. BUT, I'm just too emotional, ah ha ha ha, can't see the hand writing on the wall, you know, a lunatic!!!

Sixth year in office, and he puts through his energy plan a year ago, with not even mentioning forcing the automobile industry to stop making gas guzzling automobiles, not a dollar earmarked for that kind of research, but now, here we are facing Three dollars and above prices for gasoline, and he decides to START to press the automobile companies, NOW? AH HA HA HA, what collosal foresight, what amazing preparedness, Bush is a genius, and so are you for supporting him....

WE had a dozen oil companies back in the late 80's and 90's, until the big mergers went through. Now we have five companies, and Bush and Cheney are in bed with all of them. Why do you think Cheney had SECRET meetings with the CEO's of those five companies? And you get on here talking about competition....

Unbelievable!!!


Gayle in Md.
Lester is right, I'm a lunatic, or whatever he called me, BEFORE I called him a jerk!

pooltchr
04-27-2006, 08:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> BUT, I'm just too emotional, ah ha ha ha, can't see the hand writing on the wall, you know, a lunatic!!!

<font color="red"> Good for you, Gayle. Admitting you have a problem is the first step. </font color>

not even mentioning forcing the automobile industry to stop making gas guzzling automobiles,
<font color="red"> Here again, you just don't get it. Why should the government force a business to stop making a product that people want to buy???? Look around you on the road. Trucks, vans, and SUV's outnumber regular cars. Nobody is forcing the public to buy them...the idiots WANT them!!! And the auto industry is making a product that sells. When Americans stop buying them, nobody will have to force car companies to stop making them. It's not up to the government...it's up to the consumer. </font color>

Lester is right, I'm a lunatic, or whatever he called me, BEFORE I called him a jerk! <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red"> If I'n not mistaken, he said you come off sounding like a lunatic the way you rant and rave and repeat yourself......and you do. You have no credibility because your answer to everything is the same "he lied" or "he is in bed with business", or "his wife can only smile and wave" or whatever worn out paragraph you decide to cut and paste from one of your other posts. </font color>

moblsv
04-27-2006, 08:59 PM
You make that incredibly uninformed "free market" rant about fuel standards and then claim that Gayle sounds like a lunatic?

I feel sorry for people like Gayle. She see's the truth so clearly and voices the obvious so articulatly, yet so many of the weak minded followers of the right wing and/or free market evangelists suck in every absurdity they dole out and then attack Gayle for pointing out their lies. She is a true patriot in this time of false morals and misplaced obedience.

pooltchr
04-28-2006, 04:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr> uninformed "free market" rant about fuel standards <hr /></blockquote>

Check it out for yourself...you will find that it is not "uninformed". I did the homework.....did you?
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-28-2006, 04:29 AM
Thank you friend, I appreciate the support. This bunch of righties on here don't get to me. Their relentless denial of factual information cancels out any opinions they might express toward me. It's just that we are facing issues which truly are compromising our way of life, here in America, and the similarities to other Constitutional Crises in the past, which have threatened our cherished freedoms and rights, are bone chilling, especially when one realizes how totally blind some people are to the damage that the Bush administration has caused already. It truly does break my heart to realize that some people in the United States, have allowed 9/11 to turn them into fearful whimps, who so readily turn their backs on the democratic principles, and Constitutional protections, which make our country the greatest country in the world. They have forgotten what we learned from two other republican presidents, Nixon, and Reagan, that National Security is NEVER a blank check for any president to run a White House cloaked in secrecy, that no president is above the law, and that every single one of us has a gauranteed right to privacy and protection against unwarrented surveilance, search, and seisure, and should by all means expect the President, and his appointees, and Vice President, to be truthful when they send our youth off to war.

Thanks again....

Gayle in Md.

An Interesting follow up point, Exon just reported their quarterly earnings, the fifth highest EVER reported quarterly earnings in history!!

moblsv
04-28-2006, 04:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>you will find that it is not "uninformed". I did the homework.....did you?<hr /></blockquote>

Sorry, the correct term was "misinformed".

Yes, I am quite educated on the subject.

DickLeonard
04-28-2006, 05:40 AM
Pooltchr I don't think you have read an Oil co. tax form, they didn't lose money from Katrina we the people did. That gave them one Giant tax deduction and I guarantee that they overstated their losses. Oh wait they are the most trustworthy companies in the World. Believe that and I know your brain is Freeze Dried. ####

DickLeonard
04-28-2006, 05:48 AM
Google George HW,George W,Neil,Jeb, and read what and who invested in Bush's plots. Get a million dollar SBA loan with 3 thousand of your money. Get pieces of companies for just having the name Bush. The father was Hitler's Banker. The crooked deals with Bush's backers when he was Gov of Texas and then tell me they don't make the Italians look like pikers.####

DickLeonard
04-28-2006, 06:01 AM
Gayle When the Auto companies started marching out the SUVs,Hummers,etc. I said to myself doesn't anyone remember 1973 the oil embargo. Everyone waiting in line for gas, odd numbered liscense numbers on odd days of the month and even numbers on even days. Waiting an hour in line, then when it was finallly your turn the tanks were empty, hey comeback tommorrow we might have gas then.

Sorry to say no lesson was learned then.####

pooltchr
04-28-2006, 06:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Gayle When the Auto companies started marching out the SUVs,Hummers,etc. I said to myself doesn't anyone remember 1973 the oil embargo.<hr /></blockquote>

They will only make them as long as people are buying them. The auto makers are trying to provide a product that will sell. It is the public demand for these gas guzzlers that is the problem. Smaller cars are cheaper to buy and cheaper to operate. So why do the big SUV's and trucks outnumber cars on the highway??
When we stop buying 'em, they'll stop making 'em.
Steve

Gayle in MD
04-28-2006, 06:54 AM
I do remember, Dick, and EVERY president is responsible for this countries dependency on foreign oil, and oil in general. It's obvious, the republicans don't give a good you know what about the environment, just read the advised righty solution right in this thread, go buy stock of the corporate fascists pigs!

Do you ever wonder if people in this country would be half way informed is it weren't for Fox News? If you want to read about a communist fascist pig, look up Rupert Murdoch!

Bush is intimidating Scientist's reporting on global warming, while the polar bears are dying, and inviting unvacinated illegal aliens into this country, in the midst of a mumps outbreak, and terrorist threats. War heros like Johm Murtha, a courageous patriot if ever one lived, are called traitors, and people rail against druggie rock stars, after voting a brain dead ex coke head into office, waose record shows he went AWL to avoid his drug test!

Hey Dick....time for us to collaborate on our book...."Lying Politicians, And The Ignorant Whimps Who Support Them! Have you seen Little Bushy's new costume? A Carpenters Apron, AH HA HA HA, yeah, that's the ticket, it's hurricane season, so just put on your carpent's apron, get a photo of the first nail George Bush has ever driven into a two by four!

Gayle in Md.

SPetty
04-28-2006, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr>anytime a new gas saving device is invented the Saudis buy the patent. If it really works they bury it.<hr /></blockquote>Is this some new conspiracy theory I haven't heard about yet?<hr /></blockquote>It must be new, because everyone knows that it's the oil companies that have bought off the patents and killed the inventors!

Samson
04-28-2006, 08:34 PM
It's threads like this that make me wanna build that cabin on Ruby Ridge.

hondo
04-30-2006, 03:17 PM
Good Grief! Are you for Real!



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Susan,
The oil companies have been profitable, no doubt. But if they are making such huge profits, why isn't someone else coming along who can do it cheaper, and cutting into their businesses. Years ago, the airlines were thought to be making huge profits. What happened? Discount carriers came along and forced everyone to cut prices. Why hasn't El-Cheapo gas and oil come along to offer some competition? Surely there is a demand for cheaper gas. Maybe it's not as profitable as we are being lead to believe. How much money do you think the oil companies LOST when Katrina destroyed all the drilling and processing facilities in the gulf?
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

pooltchr
04-30-2006, 05:03 PM
Yep! If being in the oil business is such a cash cow, why aren't there more oil companies?

Gayle in MD
05-01-2006, 11:17 AM
Because this administration looked the other way during all the mergers, the corporate loopholes invented by Enron, and the gouging and war profiteering. There is only so much oil, but that is only part of the problem. Adjusting the rate of speed on refining that oil, poses the opportunity for tinkering with the whole process of supply and demand, hence, the oil wells in Iraq, far below their output capacity, and the high prices here at home, along with corporate-friendly tax legislation, absent of the royalties, BTW, and a corrupt investigative policy. When you read about all the subsidy money going to the oil companies, and Exon's top guy retiring with a 500 million dollar corporate retirement gift, after making $165,000.00 a day in salary, Exon's announcment of the largest corporate quarter profits in history, add to that Halliburton's earnings, do you think there is any connection between the war in Iraq, and corporate earnings, and Bush's friends? Sometimes, War is an invention of the rich, paid for with the blood of the poor and middle class, in the interest of monatary profit for the rich, hence, manufactured intelligence, and necessity of the use of fear. If there were oil in Darfur, we would be spreading democracy there. One has to follow the money to find the answers.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
05-01-2006, 04:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Adjusting the rate of speed on refining that oil, poses the opportunity for tinkering with the whole process of supply and demand, hence, the oil wells in Iraq, far below their output capacity, and the high prices here at home,

<hr /></blockquote>

Exactly the reason we should be looking for oil in our own back yard. I did hear on the news tonight that the energy companies (those who look for new sources of energy) are starting to see an increased flow of capital coming in since the prices have been going up. If this is true, it is very good news. But only if they are looking at home rather than overseas. If it isn't ours, then we are at the mercy of the countries where it comes from. If it comes from here, we can control our own production.
Steve

Gayle in MD
05-02-2006, 04:54 AM
But Steve, what about the environment? Regardless of whether or not you believe in global warming, I'm sure you know that there IS acid rain, and other indicators of what oil is doing to the earth. The automobile industry has been given a free ticket to make all our dependency problems even worse. This administration has been environmentally OUT TO LUNCH! Money should first be spent to meet higher Cafe' standards, (Miles per gallon) and conservation, not more oil wells, IMO. Reducing dependency, without consideration for the planet earth, is a death sentence...

Gayle

pooltchr
05-02-2006, 05:06 AM
Focusing on one area like alternative energy isn't enough. We need to be doing it ALL. Alternative energy, technology, increasing MPG in all vehicles, drilling in Alaska and in the gulf...all of it should be done.
Here's a possibility. Reduce the gas tax, and replace it with a tax on vehicles that average less than, say, 25MPG...a nice healthy tax...and use that money to finance the roads. You would see a flood of people buying more reasonable forms of transportation, and the used car lots would be full of unsellable gas hogs.
Steve

Gayle in MD
05-02-2006, 05:18 AM
Steve,
I think we should start out the way Brazil addressed the problem. Fuels other than gasoline at our pumps, stricter Cafe' standards for the automobile industry, more tax relief to promote the use of solar energy, I just think a focuss on building more oil wells in our country, is an unspoken agreement between government and enterprise to continue to be environmentally irresponsible, for the sake of corporate earnings, and to hell with the environment. Cleaner air and conservation should be our chosen course, IMO. I hate to say this, but we Americans deserve everything we're getting right now at the gas pump for supporting administrations, both Dem and Rep, the refuse to address fuel independence, clean air, and alternative technologies.

Gayle...thinks we're headed for recession...