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View Full Version : Talisman bad experiences, upsetting wasted money



07-06-2002, 06:03 PM
i've been experimenting with differant tips in the past two months..to now great expense and effort. i do want to share what i've found. in almost all cases my preferences are just that..feel induced opinion. after my latest experimentation i've found that my old favorite, well 8 year experience with my still favorite is that Moori mediums are the best for my game, medium hardness or whatever they are called now. the most impressive second place has to be the Hercules tips..after a week of break-in they are nearly indistinguisable to my M Moori tips. during the break-in though they are much harder..during this time a magnificent break tip..superior for me(i use two bits of draw on all breaks to get middle position) to any ultra hard or WB tip i've tried. Mooris are still my favorite and this is a literally anti-biased opinion. i wanted a superior tip for less and i haven't found it. i wanted to find one, especially before the recent Moori price drop. although i am an admirer, i haven't had the Hercules long enough to experience long-term wear but right now they are my second favorite. after 2 months some slight mushrooming to them which i don't have with Mooris..wierd to me as they are a much harder medium initially. anyway i have a negative inspired post to continue with. those of you that have read my semi-rants may know i avoid such oriented posts but i'm upset enough to share this annoyance.
i have now tried three Talisman tips and all three literally fell apart during play. all three fell apart! two mediums and one hard. i was inspired by research, magazine reviews and mostly positive message board posts to give them three tries. the second medium i had installed was done by my favorite cue repairman, i even supplied the printed installation guide from the Talisman web site. this was moot and unneeded as this man uses the lathe on a speed so slow as to supply no heat. i have tried a great many tips over the years, although much more times over lately. in none of my choices have i ever had such a negative experience. in fact other than mushrooming i've never had a tip problem at all..just preferances. these tips fell apart and i did buy them in two seperate purchases so it's not a bad batch..also i tried two differant hardnesses. the most terrible thing is that they fell apart so quickly. two of the three in the first session used. the Hard tip within a week. as some of tou may know i like to experiment with the options now available but none of my "experiments" have resulted in me getting angry by such an apparantly poor product. i am out over 50 dollars..actually more to have other replacement tips put on to replace the disintegrated ones. three strikes your out but the annoying part is my wasted effort and expense. why in the hell doesn't talisman change thier glue? i honestly suspect that the company is using a hype model of business. spend more on advertising than any other mode..touting a known poor product. there is only one local content Talisman user in the metro NoLa area. i play at most of the local tournaments and am more equipment focused than most. Talisman tips have made me angry... what the heck kind of product is this?
best regards,
^v^

Troy
07-06-2002, 06:47 PM
You don't say whether your Talismans are the Pro series or Water Buffalo and you don't say if they are domed or flat.

However, I have been using and installing Talisman Pro Domed tips for quite a while with ZERO problems. The Pro Soft on my every day cue is about a year old, again with ZERO problems.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> i've been experimenting with differant tips in the past two months..to now great expense and effort. i do want to share what i've found. in almost all cases my preferences are just that..feel induced opinion. after my latest experimentation i've found that my old favorite, well 8 year experience with my still favorite is that Moori mediums are the best for my game, medium hardness or whatever they are called now. the most impressive second place has to be the Hercules tips..after a week of break-in they are nearly indistinguisable to my M Moori tips. during the break-in though they are much harder..during this time a magnificent break tip..superior for me(i use two bits of draw on all breaks to get middle position) to any ultra hard or WB tip i've tried. Mooris are still my favorite and this is a literally anti-biased opinion. i wanted a superior tip for less and i haven't found it. i wanted to find one, especially before the recent Moori price drop. although i am an admirer, i haven't had the Hercules long enough to experience long-term wear but right now they are my second favorite. after 2 months some slight mushrooming to them which i don't have with Mooris..wierd to me as they are a much harder medium initially. anyway i have a negative inspired post to continue with. those of you that have read my semi-rants may know i avoid such oriented posts but i'm upset enough to share this annoyance.
i have now tried three Talisman tips and all three literally fell apart during play. all three fell apart! two mediums and one hard. i was inspired by research, magazine reviews and mostly positive message board posts to give them three tries. the second medium i had installed was done by my favorite cue repairman, i even supplied the printed installation guide from the Talisman web site. this was moot and unneeded as this man uses the lathe on a speed so slow as to supply no heat. i have tried a great many tips over the years, although much more times over lately. in none of my choices have i ever had such a negative experience. in fact other than mushrooming i've never had a tip problem at all..just preferances. these tips fell apart and i did buy them in two seperate purchases so it's not a bad batch..also i tried two differant hardnesses. the most terrible thing is that they fell apart so quickly. two of the three in the first session used. the Hard tip within a week. as some of tou may know i like to experiment with the options now available but none of my "experiments" have resulted in me getting angry by such an apparantly poor product. i am out over 50 dollars..actually more to have other replacement tips put on to replace the disintegrated ones. three strikes your out but the annoying part is my wasted effort and expense. why in the hell doesn't talisman change thier glue? i honestly suspect that the company is using a hype model of business. spend more on advertising than any other mode..touting a known poor product. there is only one local content Talisman user in the metro NoLa area. i play at most of the local tournaments and am more equipment focused than most. Talisman tips have made me angry... what the heck kind of product is this?
best regards,
^v^ <hr></blockquote>

stickman
07-06-2002, 06:57 PM
So far I'm happy with my Talisman WB Med. I prefer it to my LePros that I am accustomed to. My WB has been on for only about a month. I got the undomed and installed it myself. When shaped it has a slight wedding cake appearance, but it has no noticable effect on the performance. It takes and holds chalk quite readily, and seems to need no picking to help it hold chalk. I feel like it might grip the ball just a little better also. I have no scientific means of verifing that, it's just a feeling. I hope it continues to perform as it has initially. No doubt, your experience would be disturbing. I hope I don't duplicate it.

07-06-2002, 07:15 PM
i guess i should have provided more clarification. especially as i wrote of my Water Buffalo experience(which wasn't bad at all, these are definitly great break tips...for me to break or shoot with though? no. on both accounts my newly found Hercules are terrific. oops i have a huge hole in my experimentation. my next experiment..poke through a box of hard Mooris(luckily i have that option in New Orleans) pick what i percieve as the hardest, let this tip set in a vice under 57 lbs of compression. every day saturate the tip with my secret tip harness mixture of cane suger water with chemical x and z. per every 1cup of very hot(but not boiling) water, 1 full tablespoon of unrefined Louisiana cane sugar, one drop of Duro super glue(only dissolves proper in hot water..otherwise no hot water needed, just warm), in at attempt at luck inducing specialness i do also include one drop of my homemade hotsauce and have my fiancee kiss the water..i'm not that supertitious but i like the idea. i've happily used this on Chandivert ultra hard tips with beyond impressive results. the induced crystaline structure grips and holds the ball so well and the grippy hardness and burst of speed from the shaft is the best i've found. again, only for breaking tips, for hitting tips i have no ritual other than the kiss. there it is..people have been kind to me on this board so now i am revealing my best secret break tip conditioning trick. i've never had the courage to try it on a Moori, or any other layered tip for that matter. i'm going to do this next Saturday, Morri tips have liocally halved in price. if calling them quick makes them inexpensive enough to experiment on them whoopie! next week i venture in New Orleans for my Saturday evening tournament..my only chance to see a tin of Mooris. i will post the results of this experiment.
lol at my digressions:-), now to answer your questions Troy. My Talisman tips were not water buffalo or domed, but to be honest as weird as it may sound i don't remember them being "pro tips" either. if there are only water buffalo and pro tips available then i had pro tips. i never buy any domed tips at all ever except Chandiverts because they re-dome up just right(the hardness doesn't make then get too thin to properly shape). i buy undomed tips exclusivly because i prefer a dimeish radius and none i know of come with this. also, domed tips are not usually vertically thick enough to accept this change without seriously effecting the longevity or hit. after my experience with Talisman tips falling apart i seriously doubt that domed or water bullalo matters. just a guess but i feel sure the glue for the laminations is the problem. and what a severe, anger inducing problem it is. i also find it insane that i had three defficient tips in a row and you've had none. i am not fibbing or exaggerating. i do wonder if you've been forgiving in your memory of talisman tips. a photogenic memory?
best regards,
^v^

Brady_Behrman
07-06-2002, 07:50 PM
I bought a cue from Keith Josey about a year and a half ago. Keith puts Talisman Tips on his cues. Not knowing much about Talisman I switched to a Moori M. I hated it. I have switched back to a Talisman M and will not play with another Tip. Keep up the GREAT work, Talisman.

Troy
07-06-2002, 07:51 PM
The Talisman Pro Domed tips are just under 14mm diameter and 6mm thick. After trimming and shaping to a dime radius, the result can be approximately 5-5.5mm thick which should be plenty thick enough even on a 13mm shaft. If the tip is much taller than that, the lateral force could possibly cause excess stress on the laminations. This is true regardless of tip manufacturer, be it Talisman or any other.

Finally, if you bought your tips directly from Talisman Billiards and feel you received an inferior product, I suggest you contact Tony Jones of Talisman at tony@talismanbilliards.com explaining your experience.

Troy

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> now to answer your questions Troy. My Talisman tips were not water buffalo or domed, but to be honest as weird as it may sound i don't remember them being "pro tips" either. if there are only water buffalo and pro tips available then i had pro tips. i never buy any domed tips at all ever except Chandiverts because they re-dome up just right(the hardness doesn't make then get too thin to properly shape). i buy undomed tips exclusivly because i prefer a dimeish radius and none i know of come with this. also, domed tips are not usually vertically thick enough to accept this change without seriously effecting the longevity or hit. after my experience with Talisman tips falling apart i seriously doubt that domed or water bullalo matters. just a guess but i feel sure the glue for the laminations is the problem. and what a severe, anger inducing problem it is. i also find it insane that i had three defficient tips in a row and you've had none. i am not fibbing or exaggerating. i do wonder if you've been forgiving in your memory of talisman tips. a photogenic memory?
best regards,
^v^ <hr></blockquote>

07-06-2002, 08:26 PM
posts like this make me wonder about what if i had a working talisman tip. after three fails i do have an idea that maybe the positives aren't so genuine...maybe motivated by other means. again i have to restate..i have never had a tip failure problem in over ten years. i don't want to even discuss my true opine at this point and i doubt i'll respond to other responses from this thread. i just ..well to sum up, i'm still annoyed have never had a product fail to this level. i'm down right angry at my true fair try and the expense of seeing a product with a 100% failure rate. i never got to realize what all the posotives were one bit. i see a terrible falling apart product. now i'm questioning of the positives before and the defending posts now. i don't want board contoversey, really i have read much positives about these tips on this board which leaves me to wonder... i think i'll just drop it and "get over it" but i had to publicly say my experience for all of the afore mentioned reasons. in closing i cannot imagine i was unluicky in my experience. three in a row is just too much. and even though money is a factor it's more my two trips to get them put on. sure you can still go with a "bad batch to New Orleans" theory but even if this is the case there should be no bad batches from a tip several times the price of other quality tips..let alone the lower production costs of the area of origin.
best regards,
^v^

JimS
07-06-2002, 08:32 PM
I love everything about the Talisman tips I've installed and used. I've only installed about 12 tips total in my life but I've not had a single problem with the approximately 6 Talisman Pro tips I've installed, trimmed and shaped.

I've been using a Talisman Pro Hard on my play cue for a minimum of 2 hours, often 4 hours and sometimes 8 hours every day for these past two years. I haven't needed to shape it even once and only used the Tip Pik maybe 6 or 8 times. Holds chalk great, feels great, and in my opinion plays great in every regard.

I'm not saying that you are doing anything wrong as you are not the first to have had some problems. But it's clear to me that many of us have had very good experiences with Talisman and this needs to be said in order to protect Tony and the good name he has built with his superior tips.

Seeking balance.

Ken
07-06-2002, 08:53 PM
This post is asinine. Do you have any useful information to share???

07-06-2002, 08:56 PM
mine was shaped to a hair to my usual thickness. lol..i hope you get my meaning. Talisman tipos are the "thickest" i'vce seen. vertical thickness of course but no, i wasn't hitting from a tip that was too long. also TOny, you've been rather informative and kinde in responding to me before. i hope you understant i am not being disrespectful...i just don't get teh talisman thing. wheew i'm tired of typing about it but i'll probably be a little annoyed tomorrow. also for clarification the last straw was obviously today. my third try Hard Talisman tip blew out during my practice session for the local big bi-monthly nine ball tournament. it happened on the break an hopur before i had to play. it could have been worse. the tip repair guy didn't visit this time. i did plan to breal with this tip though. during the time it was still working the performance was acceptable but not above other single layed tips i admire..Le-Pro and Chandivert. iu know my tip preferances barring the Moori are unusual for this board but i have a much more aware and truly scientific evaluative measure. also, to answer your question i didn't buy my tips from the Talisman web-site although my first Talisman tip was from an online purchase including a batch of others. my second two were from the same source i get my Mooris from..near the same price as the internet. seeing and touching something is more important than savings..and locally if your a good and informed customer you still get a good deal. anyway no, they were not from the web site but i have my reciepts though. i dought this would get me satisfied though unless i could be assured they wouldn't do that again. not only will this not happen but it's unlikely in my opinion such assurances could be guaranteed.
best regards,
^v^

Ken
07-06-2002, 09:09 PM
Thank you for convincing me never to read another post by you. Your lack of literary skills suggest to me that you are incapable of any worthwhile opinions. Did anyone ever teach you the meaning of the word "proofread"?

Tom_In_Cincy
07-06-2002, 09:16 PM
After reading your posts, I would have to suspect that you didn't purchase the ture Talisman tips.. Did they have a gold printed "H" or "M" on the bottom of the tip?

I have been using the Talisman "Pro H" for about 2 years, and haven't had any problems with them at all.. Maybe you ought to find someone else to put your tips on for you..

BLACKHEART
07-06-2002, 09:34 PM
JIM; I think you're forgetting the Talisman tip you brought me to install on your Q. It fell apart...JER

07-06-2002, 09:36 PM
it's not silly and merely my direct experience. asanine ? no. posting to others of a poor product experience. it's not just venting it's potentially helping others. a post like yours is however in my opine the purest root of your own insult. i never attacked anything but the failed product. attacking my opinion is fine if you have an opposing view, or better yet an explained opposing view. yours was as rude and as silly. so do you like Talisman tips? if so then post about it, if not then post too. to toss insulting names is truly asanine:-)
sincere best regards,
^v^

07-06-2002, 09:47 PM
Ken,

This is not a grammar board this is a pool and billiard board. Any mispelling or word corrections are not really that important of. Unless you just want to be MR. PERFECT!

07-06-2002, 09:50 PM
BTW, just a follow up. Efren Reyes may not be the best English speaker or can't write the correct spellings.... BUT he can kick evrybody's asses in this forum who talk [censored] and think they are Mr. PERFECT Grammar KING.

07-06-2002, 10:13 PM
hee hee, i never expected to be so waifly insulted here. just so you know and it is obvious, my fully aware writing shortcomings. i prefer to have my original posts shown with no proofreading. still tough, your suggestion of needing "literary skill" is as impotent as summer rain. literary skill is needed on a messdage board to ask questions or post info? your own words have popped themselves as firecrackers on the fourth, or bubble gum at a little league game. ignore my posts all you like but i know you won't. about the only thing i worried about in posting my anger inducing experience was potentially upsetting "Talisman Tony" as i've seen him be helpful beyond tip questions here. Now the other Tony with the Talisman logo i also didn't want to offend. he's been kind in responding to my questions. also i don't see how from any view i don't have info to share. look at my other posts. i post my experimentation and results. i save people time and effort and expense if they are of the experimentive sort. enough i suggest you insult others in the mean time or imppress me with your literary skills:-) i am a poor speller admited, not a poor thinker or writer for that matter.
Tom in Cincy: actually now that you mention it my first talisman tip did not have gold lettering. my other two did but it was half flaked off.
in best regards i hope to remain,
your honest opinioned,
^v^

Troy
07-06-2002, 10:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> Now the other Tony with the Talisman logo..... <hr></blockquote>

That "other Tony with the Talisman logo" is me, TROY.
Now you have me doubting that you even bothered to read my responses.

Troy

Troy
07-06-2002, 10:36 PM
I now think you did NOT have Talisman tips.

I have seen hundreds of Talisman tips. ALL have lettering on the back side. NONE are blank. NONE are half flaked off.

I submit that prior to condemning someone's product, you be sure you actually have that product.

Troy...~~~ Yes, that's right, TROY

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr>
Tom in Cincy: actually now that you mention it my first talisman tip did not have gold lettering. my other two did but it was half flaked off.
in best regards i hope to remain,
your honest opinioned,
^v^ <hr></blockquote>

07-06-2002, 10:43 PM
te hee, at least i never aspoused to be literary and i've shouted my bad grammer from my rock for months, this is lately the rock people like you crawl out from under. in correcting my ..goodness i hate quotes.. literary lacking you were also in err "Your lack of literary skills suggest to me that you are incapable of any worthwhile opinions." may i suggest to you that sometime the word suggest can use an s and at times in conversating(sic for your pleasure) one must step up instead of down. i command you to be a cooler person becasue it's for your own good. swim in your owm literary pond alone. at least mine has lovely company.
best regards from my pond with the bright blue fish, swimming in air,
^v^

p.s. there is no greater fool than one that attacks with his soul and embarresses his future. S. Coleridge

07-06-2002, 10:57 PM
sorry 'bout that. sincerely. i have read your responses from far before this post..i'm terrible with message board namesunless they are unusual. now there is a Tony i hope..otherwise whew. anyway i do dislike communicating other than i post this way..it's difficult to type what one could easily describe in person or by phone. with words and not letters. my gold isn't flaking really but they were not perfect imprinted..not full H or M i was incorrect to say flakjing off but it looks like the gold wasn't properly imprinted. the first one looked like a brown M. inferred flaking not observed. got to be more correct. i don't see how people do it with fewer words..actually i do but lessis there. anyway, sorry of the name confusion, i do remember you well and hey! you never sent me your ferrule writings:-)
best regards,
^v^

07-06-2002, 11:55 PM
I think I would find another tip guy. $18 per tip and he don't guarantee the work? My tip man charges $14 for a talisman, and will replace or reinstall any tip that he has put on for 1 year or until the tip is worn down to the thickness of a nickel.

Check the guarantee on the Talisman web site it states:
All purchases from this web site are covered by our 100% satisfaction guarantee. If for some reason you are not 100% satisfied you can contact me and you will be given a prompt and courteous FULL refund
If you do not feel that Talisman tips are the tips you are looking for you can return them for a prompt and courteous FULL refund. I will also go further with this guarantee, by offering an additional $10 in cash to cover any installation costs you may have incurred. How can I do this you ask? Well, I am so sure that you will be happy with your purchase that I am willing to even offer to pay for installation of the tip if you are not satisfied.
That is one of the best guarantees I have ever seen.
Keith

07-07-2002, 12:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> it's not silly and merely my direct experience. asanine ? no. posting to others of a poor product experience. it's not just venting it's potentially helping others. a post like yours is however in my opine the purest root of your own insult. i never attacked anything but the failed product. attacking my opinion is fine if you have an opposing view, or better yet an explained opposing view. yours was as rude and as silly. so do you like Talisman tips? if so then post about it, if not then post too. to toss insulting names is truly asanine:-)
sincere best regards,
^v^ <hr></blockquote>

WOW! You got 'em there! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Chris Cass
07-07-2002, 12:53 AM
Hi Redwinebluebird,

Wow, that's a heck of a name to type. Anyway, I wanted to share my experiences with Talisman Pro H with the big H on them.

I went through the same problems you did. 3 tips came apart. The first one was on a draw shot. The middle layer popped off. There I was with a crater in the middle. My jaw dropped. The second one, I had just got back from a tourney and the side wall was seperating. It stuck in the middle but was like a sponge. The same thing happened with the third one.

I was dissapointed to say the least. I wanted so to have good luck with Talisman. I like Tony and I like the hit of the Talisman, when I got down to a certain layer. I thought it was a problem with the glue. The layers arn't even also. Thinking they weren't compressed at the same pressure.

I was concerned and posted about it. Tony being the helpful and concerned rep for the company suggested I look up the site. Perhaps, it was in the installation.

Well, I found out more than I ever knew about layered tips. I had been burnishing, magic markering the sides and tip tapping too. All of which, these tips don't like. So, I promised Tony, I'd give them another try. I took the tip to a cue guy with a leathe, and told him about the installation. He went by my direction and so far so good.

I like you had the same problems. I just had one more. I like to tap and can't see the end of the cue. I seem, lost without my habit of tapping. I still carry my tap though. Just in case anyone wants to tap. LOL

Still, uneasy but have had it on for a while now. No problems. I can't understand the problems of the uneven layers. Just going to take one day at a time. I feel your pain brother. Searching for tips is more frustrating than losing $500. to a road dog.

I can't debate the grammer thing. I'm not exactly perfect. Thank God, nobody pays attention to my skills or rather, lack of. LOL

Good luck, I know your frustrated and out money too. Layered tips are still very new to us players and the thought of going back to mushrooming is frightening. I hope you find something you like. I do think you should have brought this to Tony's attention first but to each his own. I talked about them too. I realized, I really don't care what the tip cost Vs. playability and reliability.

Regards,

C.C.~~rambling man

07-07-2002, 04:09 AM
I have now tried three Talisman tips and all three literally fell apart during play. all three fell apart! two mediums and one hard. i was inspired by research, magazine reviews and mostly positive message board posts to give them three tries. the second medium i had installed was done by my favorite cue repairman, i even supplied the printed installation guide from the Talisman web site. this was moot and unneeded as this man uses the lathe on a speed so slow as to supply no heat. i have tried a great many tips over the years, although much more times over lately. in none of my choices have i ever had such a negative experience. in fact other than mushrooming i've never had a tip problem at all..just preferances. these tips fell apart and i did buy them in two seperate purchases so it's not a bad batch..also i tried two differant hardnesses. the most terrible thing is that they fell apart so quickly. two of the three in the first session used. the Hard tip within a week. as some of tou may know i like to experiment with the options now available but none of my "experiments" have resulted in me getting angry by such an apparantly poor product. i am out over 50 dollars..actually more to have other replacement tips put on to replace the disintegrated ones. three strikes your out but the annoying part is my wasted effort and expense. why in the hell doesn't talisman change thier glue? i honestly suspect that the company is using a hype model of business. spend more on advertising than any other mode..touting a known poor product. there is only one local content Talisman user in the metro NoLa area. i play at most of the local tournaments and am more equipment focused than most. Talisman tips have made me angry... what the heck kind of product is this?
best regards,
^v^ <hr></blockquote>


I think you are a bit out of line making such a general statement. I have been using soft Talisman tips for over 2 years now and they are the best tips I have ever used. They are a fraction of the cost of a Moori and I think they are a better tip. The first one lasted over 9 months before it got too hard. The second one lasted another 9 months and I am now on my third one. All three have been excellent. In fact there are more and more people going to these tips because of the lower cost and the high quality. Moori are over priced and not as good as the hype.

Drake
07-07-2002, 07:39 AM
Are you one of those players who is always scuffing,picking, and manipulating their tip?? Talisman tips can not be tip picked...this causes the layers to break down. I've been through about 4 medium talisman pro's in 2 years and never had any trouble at all. They only require ocassional scuffing. Is is the tip??? or Is it You???

JimS
07-07-2002, 07:42 AM
Gulp.......you're right Jer...I did forget that. Probably because I didn't have to mess with it and suffer the frustration. Well...I still like'um and haven't had one fall apart on me...yet, but it sounds like the day is coming. Have you seen my post about getting rid of a finish scratch...need your help. Search for healing/polishing.

stickman
07-07-2002, 08:02 AM
You make a good point Drake. I used to pick my LePros quite frequently. I haven't used my pik since putting on my Talisman, and haven't had any need to. I can easily see how picking would break down the glue between the layers.

Troy
07-07-2002, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> i do dislike communicating other than i post this way..it's difficult to type what one could easily describe in person or by phone. with words and not letters.<hr></blockquote>

Oh the joy of effective communication. In a previous post you mentioned how UNIMPORTANT it is to communicate effectively. Try to justify that point now.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>you never sent me your ferrule writings:-)
<hr></blockquote>

Again you are confused. The discussion on ferrules was by TonyM.

No name, I wouldn't want to confuse you.

07-07-2002, 09:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> i do have an idea that maybe the positives aren't so genuine...maybe motivated by other means. again i have to restate..i have never had a tip failure problem in over ten years. i don't want to even discuss my true opine at this point and i doubt i'll respond to other responses from this thread. really i have read much positives about these tips on this board which leaves me to wonder... best regards,
^v^ <hr></blockquote>

well, birdy, you done busted the code and figured it out. i and several others on this board do not really exist. we are computer generated "shills" for tony jones and talisman tips. we only exist to advertise the tips.

ok, i'm joking about that. really, some of us are paid large sums of money by tony everytime we say something good about his tips. very large sums. the contract stipulates that tony will have black helicopters deliver large packages of fifties within two hours of any endorsment.

no, really, i'm kidding about that. unlike you, we are all just really, really stupid. you can tell who we are in your local poolroom by looking for the guy playing with a cue that has a tip flopping down off the shaft every time he turns the cue the wrong way. we don't know any better. play us for money.

dan...sheesh.

07-07-2002, 10:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: B.B:</font><hr> I have now tried three Talisman tips and all three literally fell apart during play. all three fell apart! two mediums and one hard. i was inspired by research, magazine reviews and mostly positive message board posts to give them three tries. the second medium i had installed was done by my favorite cue repairman, i even supplied the printed installation guide from the Talisman web site. this was moot and unneeded as this man uses the lathe on a speed so slow as to supply no heat. i have tried a great many tips over the years, although much more times over lately. in none of my choices have i ever had such a negative experience. in fact other than mushrooming i've never had a tip problem at all..just preferances. these tips fell apart and i did buy them in two seperate purchases so it's not a bad batch..also i tried two differant hardnesses. the most terrible thing is that they fell apart so quickly. two of the three in the first session used. the Hard tip within a week. as some of tou may know i like to experiment with the options now available but none of my "experiments" have resulted in me getting angry by such an apparantly poor product. i am out over 50 dollars..actually more to have other replacement tips put on to replace the disintegrated ones. three strikes your out but the annoying part is my wasted effort and expense. why in the hell doesn't talisman change thier glue? i honestly suspect that the company is using a hype model of business. spend more on advertising than any other mode..touting a known poor product. there is only one local content Talisman user in the metro NoLa area. i play at most of the local tournaments and am more equipment focused than most. Talisman tips have made me angry... what the heck kind of product is this?
best regards,
^v^ &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;


I think you are a bit out of line making such a general statement. I have been using soft Talisman tips for over 2 years now and they are the best tips I have ever used. They are a fraction of the cost of a Moori and I think they are a better tip. The first one lasted over 9 months before it got too hard. The second one lasted another 9 months and I am now on my third one. All three have been excellent. In fact there are more and more people going to these tips because of the lower cost and the high quality. Moori are over priced and not as good as the hype. <hr></blockquote>

Sorry but Mooris are stil the best compare to Talisman. Talisman leather feels flaky while Mooris are very fine, and the horizontal layered lines of leathers are not even unlike Moori. I get my mooris cheaper so there's no complain for me to that. I have also tried Talisman Pro M, good tip but not as good and consistent as the Moori MH. After playing with a Talisman Pro M I switched back to Moori MH. I get better CB control.

Harold Acosta
07-07-2002, 11:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Ken:</font><hr> Thank you for convincing me never to read another post by you. Your lack of literary skills suggest to me that you are incapable of any worthwhile opinions. Did anyone ever teach you the meaning of the word "proofread"? <hr></blockquote>

<font color=blue> You see, this is the type of BS that sometimes people who post here have to endure. The man is making a point about why he believes this product is not worth his while. He is entitled to his opinion and may have not had the desire to proofread what he wrote. This doesn't mean he lacks literary skills.

You read and understood what he was saying, right?

So keep this post to the subject. This attack was unwarranted.

Harold Acosta
07-07-2002, 12:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: redwinebluebird:</font><hr> it's not silly and merely my direct experience. asanine ? no. posting to others of a poor product experience. it's not just venting it's potentially helping others. a post like yours is however in my opine the purest root of your own insult. i never attacked anything but the failed product. attacking my opinion is fine if you have an opposing view, or better yet an explained opposing view. yours was as rude and as silly. so do you like Talisman tips? if so then post about it, if not then post too. to toss insulting names is truly asanine:-)
sincere best regards,^v^ <hr></blockquote>

Regardless of the attacks you have received on this board, I have to say that it has been very informative, and it does give others a different view of the properties of this product. Products don't necessarily work for everyone. I for one have posted about my problems with Justis Cases and Predator Cues and I have been attacked to a personal level instead of or about the subject product.

I have purchased over 40 tips, hard, mediums, &amp; soft. Most have been sold to friends and acquaintances. Three people have returned because of delamination. One admitted the delamination because of excessive burnishing. One admitted delamination during the cutting/trimming process to the size of the shaft (14 mm to 13 mm). The other said it just delaminated after 1 day play. The three tips were replaced but I did the installation, so far no more problems. I do all installations manually, the old, old fashion way. I have purchased the domed and flat tips. I prefer the domed ones. None have been the WB type.

Blackheart recently explained some problems he was having installing these tips. So I do not doubt the problems you are having. My suggestion is to keep using the Moori tips since they best work for you.

You did the right thing in posting your opinions. Don't worry about whatever the heck others have to say about your post.

Ken
07-07-2002, 03:04 PM
I could not read and understand what he wrote. After suffering through one post and getting some of his drivel the second one was worse and I gave up.

Alfie
07-07-2002, 04:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: houstondan:</font><hr> well, birdy, you done busted the code and figured it out. i and several others on this board do not really exist. we are computer generated "shills" for tony jones and talisman tips. we only exist to advertise the tips.

ok, i'm joking about that. really, some of us are paid large sums of money by tony everytime we say something good about his tips. very large sums. the contract stipulates that tony will have black helicopters deliver large packages of fifties within two hours of any endorsment.

no, really, i'm kidding about that. unlike you, we are all just really, really stupid. you can tell who we are in your local poolroom by looking for the guy playing with a cue that has a tip flopping down off the shaft every time he turns the cue the wrong way. we don't know any better. play us for money.

dan...sheesh. <hr></blockquote> sheesh

Harold Acosta
07-07-2002, 07:11 PM
He only had a couple of mispelled words. Everyone else knew what he was talking about....

07-07-2002, 09:00 PM
Anyone who had three top rated tips come apart would be upset and since a format such as this one exists it makes sense that you would post your experience. However, it takes more than three bad experiences to determine that Talisman makes inferior tips. Now if everyone is experiencing the same problem(s) there probably is an obvious defect. I install all my own tips and many for other players. I have experienced one delamination and it was a Hercules tip and I caused the problem because of my unfamiliarity with laminated tips. I have several of my personal cues with Moori,Hercules, and Talisman tips on them. You cannot treat layered tips the same as solid tips ie, tapping (never tap a layered tip),pressure scuffing, burnishing that creates heat, using a black marker on the edges to make them pretty. The point is that you must treat layered tips with the same gentleness as your shaft when adjustments are needed to it. Not all repair people, even good ones, know this. They never had problems in the past putting on tips so its easier to assume or assign blame to the tip. Trimming,and shaping must always be done in a manner that creates no heat. Talisman is my tip of choice because its cheaper than a Moori and I can't distinguish a reasonable difference. Hercules is probably just as good but it has a harder hit than I like.

Wally_in_Cincy
07-08-2002, 08:50 AM
I couldn't understand him either. I think it should be common courtesy to write coherently.
================================================== ======
Redwine stated:
i even supplied the printed installation guide from the Talisman web site. this was moot and unneeded as this man uses the lathe on a speed so slow as to supply no heat
================================================== =====

So the tip guy didn't necessarily use the instructions, and Redwine is not even really sure they were Talisman tips. What's wrong here?

I've only used one Talisman so far and have had no problems.

Chris Cass
07-08-2002, 09:34 AM
Hi Bill,

I agree with ya. That was my concern with the tips. As far as cost, I don't think money is a question. I liked the Moori Tips but for me, they wore too quickly. Once Tony directed me to the site. I was schooled.

I haven't had any problems with the one I'm using this time around. I just don't mess with it. It's a hard habit to break. 28 something yrs with LePro's and it becomes a habit. I use the black marker not for looks but to see the end of the thing. Soon, that will be fixed too.

I think a lot of people with 12.5 mm shafts and smaller are experiencing problems with the height of the tips. The shaft I'm playing with now is 12.78 mm. I haven't had a problem. The real asset of these conversations is to get the most feedback as possible. Tony, knows this and helps him in QA/QC. What better place to get feedback on your companies product, than a forum of marketed users. It a great way to get a company to grow.

Tony, isn't here for that purpose alone though. He contributes his ideas and experiences to help others to in many subjects. He's also given his attention and tried relentlessly to solve our tip problems. Where others may have said, hit the road. IMO

Tips, chalk, cues, balls, and everything under the sun, is debatable, with everyone having their own opinions. I think, this is good and to be expected. I don't feel any problem Talisman has with delamination is due to the glue. I am however concerned with the way their, compressing the tips. I sure would like to learn why, these layers are not uniform? Just out of curiousity.

Best regards,

C.C.~~no problems anymore, just questions...

ted harris
07-08-2002, 11:53 AM
If you want to make the sides of the tip black, go to the shoe store and get Fiebings black leather dye. Just apply it with a q-tip. Shouldn't cost you more than $5-. That is what I use.

BLACKHEART
07-08-2002, 12:15 PM
TONY, is this leather dye, that Harris recomends, OKed by you on your product???...JER

07-08-2002, 12:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ted harris:</font><hr> If you want to make the sides of the tip black, go to the shoe store and get Fiebings black leather dye. Just apply it with a q-tip. Shouldn't cost you more than $5-. That is what I use. <hr></blockquote>

After you apply it with a q-tip, do you burnish the side of the tip then or just let it dry like that then?

Cueless Joey
07-08-2002, 12:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Anonymous:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: ted harris:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; If you want to make the sides of the tip black, go to the shoe store and get Fiebings black leather dye. Just apply it with a q-tip. Shouldn't cost you more than $5-. That is what I use. &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

After you apply it with a q-tip, do you burnish the side of the tip then or just let it dry like that then? <hr></blockquote>.......
Now that's corny, vain and dumb.
Just returning the favor PoolG.

07-08-2002, 12:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Cueless Joey:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: Anonymous:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt; &amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font class="small"&amp;gt;Quote: ted harris:&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;hr&amp;gt; If you want to make the sides of the tip black, go to the shoe store and get Fiebings black leather dye. Just apply it with a q-tip. Shouldn't cost you more than $5-. That is what I use. &amp;lt;hr&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;

After you apply it with a q-tip, do you burnish the side of the tip then or just let it dry like that then? &lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;.......
Now that's corny, vain and dumb.
Just returning the favor PoolG. <hr></blockquote>

No originality. still corny! LOL

07-08-2002, 01:12 PM

Brady_Behrman
07-09-2002, 06:47 AM
The moori I had fell apart and was a M. It hit like a ton of bricks. I could care less about the price. I have a housepro, Dave Bollman, that doesnt charge me anything. I'll stay with Talisman for now!

ted harris
07-09-2002, 10:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>After you apply it with a q-tip, do you burnish the side of the tip then or just let it dry like that then?<hr></blockquote>
It really depends on the tip. Some tips(elk master, moori, talisman, instroke, hercules) need time for the dye to soak in. The time the dye is allowed to dry on the sides of the tip is also determined on whether or not you wet sand the sides of the tip to get it flush with the ferrule. If the tip cannot be wet sanded, just let it dry and then polish it with a paper towel. If a tip has been wet sanded, it has a higher polished surface, therefore requiring more time for the dye to be absorbed. You can then use a paper towel to polish the side of the tip just enough to make it shiny. With the layered tips, do not polish it enough to create any heat.

ted harris
07-09-2002, 10:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>TONY, is this leather dye, that Harris recomends, OKed by you on your product???...JER<hr></blockquote>
I cannot imagine that not being able to use leather dye on leather!

Rich R.
07-10-2002, 04:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: ted harris:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;TONY, is this leather dye, that Harris recomends, OKed by you on your product???...JER&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I cannot imagine that not being able to use leather dye on leather! <hr></blockquote>

I don't think the problem would be the leather dye on the leather, but it may be the liquid affecting the glue of the layered tip. I defer to Tony for the answer.
Rich R.

07-11-2002, 02:14 PM
I would trust Ted Harris. After all he is one of the best cue guy out there.

TalismanTony
07-11-2002, 08:09 PM
Hi Guys,

I have not tried dyeing the sides as Ted mentioned. I will try to buy some of this dye when I am in New Orleans and i will do some testing. I had another customer who applied a small amount of clear shoe polish and this apprently worked well. I agree that Ted is probably right and wouldn't suggest something that he hadn't fully tested. I promise to do some testing and let the board know the results.

Kind regards,