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Stretch
04-26-2006, 10:37 AM
On the break shots do most people use a lot of wrist? I understand that there is a certain amount of natural wrist action to magnify the speed of the forearm in much the same way as the tip of a whip, or more closer to our movement, the whip of an underhand pitcher. Timeing the release where the tip goes through the cantact area to get that "snap" then becomes the issue i believe. But i often see the long follow throughs and i don't get how they can develope the highest cue speed so far back in thier stroke when looking at the final cue position. Wouldn't it be easier to get that "snap" near the end of your stroke with say a 4 or 6 in. finish? I'm curious about everyones thinking when it comes to crushing the rack /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.

Barbara
04-26-2006, 07:45 PM
Stretch,

I don't own a great break shot, but today's phenolic tips and break cues have given me some leverage.

The best advice I can give you about gripping your break cue is to do this solidly with your thumb, middle, and maybe your ring and pinky fingers - whatever suits you. The thumb and middle finger are key and #### will back me up on this. This gives you the best solid chance to hit the CB without putting on unintended english, unless you have wrist issues. And I'm not going any further. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Information courtesy of Linda Haywood Shea.

Barbara

Rod
04-26-2006, 11:14 PM
Stretch,

You'd have to slow down your arm to make that snap, as you put it, to happen before the c/b not to mention a probable loss of power. If your relaxed it happens naturally. Your cue weight and wrist catches up at contact point. BTW this is your address position, which is where you based your aim. To use a fake follow through per-say, as I'll call it, may miss your original contact point.

Personally I detest the phrase "wrist snap" and my wrist is very loose. I just let my wrist catch up, no forced motion of any kind because it is a form of steering and the wrist follows, not lead. Power is from your arm (a big muscle).
You may develope more power from a loose wrist if your rhythum and timing is good but your wrist just goes along for the ride. Nothing more or less. Power comes from a well timed execution just like a whip or pitcher. It only looks like they use more wrist action. Compared to most players their wrist is more lively but it isn't the wrist that does the work. Let me repeat, the wrist is passive.

How you grip the cue (and definately pressure) has an effect with wrist movement as well. A full hand grip equals less wrist. While a front three finger grip lets your wrist hinge more. Your thumb and two middle fingers also free up your wrist. What ever you like but as I said forget about making power with your wrist, which is a small muscle. Using small muscles is steering, which is exactly what you don't want. JMO of course. LOL

Rod

DickLeonard
04-27-2006, 05:30 AM
Stretch I have posted before about racking 9 balls for 3 hours for Andy Bakerian, a legend in Troy for putting all nineballs in on the break. He also told me he put 7 out of 9 in twice and once getting stitched. He hadn't hit a pool ball in 5 years when I racked for him. It took him some time limbering up his fingers like a piano player would do before playing.

Then the lesson began, he was maybe 5ft5 and 125 lbs. He held the cue with his baby and ring finger and his thumb,forefinger,middle finger dangling just guiding the cue. No violent body movement just a smooth delivery of the cue and then the bomb would go off when he hit the oneball. The objectballs speed would pickup after colliding with the rails then the balls would start falling in the pockets.

In the 3 hours I racked for him the least balls he put in was two and the most was six. To this day I never figured out what he did that made the balls behave in that way. I call him the Eighth Wonder of the World because nothing he did would suggest the Violent reaction of the balls after the cueball hit the one.

Paul Dayton and I were discussing that at Valley Forge with some nineball players. Paul said if you were at a nineball tourney with 50 guys all breaking at the same time you could tell Andy's Break by the sound it made. Cueball 1950 can attest to Andy"s breaking.####

DickLeonard
04-27-2006, 05:40 AM
Barbara your right about the baby and ring finger for holding the cue and allowing the thumb and the other two fingers just guide the cue. Your cue will go farther,straighter and on a level plane than if you hold the cue with your thumb and first two fingers.####

Stretch
04-27-2006, 10:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Stretch I have posted before about racking 9 balls for 3 hours for Andy Bakerian, a legend in Troy for putting all nineballs in on the break. He also told me he put 7 out of 9 in twice and once getting stitched. He hadn't hit a pool ball in 5 years when I racked for him. It took him some time limbering up his fingers like a piano player would do before playing.

Then the lesson began, he was maybe 5ft5 and 125 lbs. He held the cue with his baby and ring finger and his thumb,forefinger,middle finger dangling just guiding the cue. No violent body movement just a smooth delivery of the cue and then the bomb would go off when he hit the oneball. The objectballs speed would pickup after colliding with the rails then the balls would start falling in the pockets.

In the 3 hours I racked for him the least balls he put in was two and the most was six. To this day I never figured out what he did that made the balls behave in that way. I call him the Eighth Wonder of the World because nothing he did would suggest the Violent reaction of the balls after the cueball hit the one.

Paul Dayton and I were discussing that at Valley Forge with some nineball players. Paul said if you were at a nineball tourney with 50 guys all breaking at the same time you could tell Andy's Break by the sound it made. Cueball 1950 can attest to Andy"s breaking.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Dick, Barb, Rod, Thankyou! I loved all your responses and it's given me lots to think about. I think i'll work on that "break grip" technique and see if i can't squeeze a few more mph's on something i can control /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

You guys are the best, every time i read your posts i want to run out and find a pool table somewhere. St.

RonMont
05-10-2006, 12:05 PM
I have to agree with you, I don't change my stroke (~8") but snap the wrist at contact and push through to a long follow through. The long follow through seems to help me commit to the stroke.

RonMont
05-14-2006, 11:26 AM
Well Rod I never did get back to Phoenix to visit with Don and take more lessons from him. Did you know he had a client that flew in from Alaska to spend a week taking lessons?
Some of his expertise escaped me until a few years later.
In most every tournament I realize an inner smile recalling something I learned from him and did not appreciate until later. For example he would be showing me kicking methods using the diamond system and would place a ball along the track from the second rail. I in turn would shoot a 3 cushion shot and coming off the second rail the cue ball would clip his ball into the corner pocket. At the time I just thought how good I shot on those track lines, never thinking about how difficult it must be to place a ball so accurately as he did. He could do this with many of the two, three and four rail kicks, being able to visualize the track line. Amazing guy. If you should see him again please let him know his tricks are still working for me.

Best, Ron.