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View Full Version : NEED for a break speed appliance?



ceebee
04-27-2006, 03:17 PM
The Predator Cue Company used an electric light "Break Shot Speed Appliance", in their Break Shot Booth at Valley Forge, & it was great for the players.

Does anybody like the idea of having & using a "Break Shot Speed Appliance" ($200 or less) in their home, during lessons or renting one at their local Pool Room?

Scott Lee
04-27-2006, 05:00 PM
Charley...I only got to spend a few hours at the show, on Saturday, the last day. I didn't get to Predator to see this thing. How does it work? I did, however, see and try out the AcCueShot (which has light sensor to check the accuracy of your stroke, with or without sidespin), and I really liked it's application a lot. I plan to start using one in my lessons.

Scott Lee

SpiderMan
04-28-2006, 07:00 AM
I think the common approach (radar gun) is the wrong way to go for such a measurement.

Any new "break speed appliance" should be designed as an optical system which starts and stops a counter, then inverts the count to measure speed. Same way a shooting chronograph works. These have gotten down into the $50 range, no reason why it couldn't work for pool.

SpiderMan

ceebee
04-28-2006, 07:33 AM
The electrical Speed-O-Meter is placed on the table & has two beams of light 6-8 inches apart. The cue ball breaks the two beams of light & the MPH is displayed. As soon as the two beams are broken, the MPH display comes on & the the cycle is stopped for 15 seconds.

Most Radar Guns won't work well because of the limited time & distance to analyse the speed. Fluorescent lights do funny things to Radar too.

Folks were lined up at the Predator Booth for 4 days straight. They really enjoyed shooting the break shot & getting some feedback (accuracy of stroke & speed of cue ball).

rocky
04-28-2006, 08:20 AM
What we used was a device used to track bullet speed. Like Charlie said, it is done with two laser beams that are basically 6" apart and can be turned to match the angle that the person is breaking at. It's allot more accurate than a radar gun. In case anyone wants to know the fastest break that we had at the booth was 31.8 and still keep the cue ball on the table.

JohnnyP
04-28-2006, 10:41 AM
CB: I like the audio method described somewhere around here.

The guy used a sound card on his pc. He started a timer when the stick hits the cueball, then stopped it when the CB hits the pack.

Could be easily done with a uProcessor.

caedos
04-29-2006, 12:10 PM
We use a light break system at the school. The breaks are 6" apart with angle inputs. I can only trust it's accurate, since I believe it to have been made by a college student as a project. It is very touchy to set up. Is there something that is accurate out there I can get? I have been unable to find the appliance mentioned to purchase for my own use.

Carl

Cornerman
04-30-2006, 03:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I think the common approach (radar gun) is the wrong way to go for such a measurement.

Any new "break speed appliance" should be designed as an optical system which starts and stops a counter, then inverts the count to measure speed. Same way a shooting chronograph works. These have gotten down into the $50 range, no reason why it couldn't work for pool.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>That's what they have. Two input sensors (through beam sensors), a known distance, and a rate meter box. Very common materials, very repeatable.

Fred

cushioncrawler
07-17-2006, 05:33 PM
Just for interest, in years gone bye i have used 2 home-made methods to measure qball speed.

The first was the one mentioned by Colin Colenso elsewhere -- this involves hitting a qball off the end of a table, and measuring the distance to where it lands, and the height of the table, and then using some math. This iznt accurate, koz the qball can bounce upwards off the table. The higher the table the more accurate the test -- i did my tests off my second storey verandah, the ball landing on the lawn.

The other way is to tape the qball onto the end of some cotton, to make a pendulum. U measure the height that u can hit the qball, ie the ht the pendulum swings to -- and then use math to get the qball speed. This will understate the true speed if u dont factor-in the air rezistance -- for a qball the Cd iz about 0.49, not the 0.47 given in books (0.47 applyz to really big balls). I thort that i would hit the qball out of sight -- but i was amazed at the very little height that i got with my best hit -- karnt remember, but it was only about 2.5m or something. Take care to allow for the fact that the cotton might break, or that the qball might come free -- i did my tests outside the house.

pooltchr
07-17-2006, 06:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> This will understate the true speed if u dont factor-in the air rezistance -- <hr /></blockquote>

Why would it be any different in your test than in a real break? You don't break in a vacuum, so there is resistance there. If anything, you would end up overstating your break speed since the ball isn't on a table in the test. Gravity would also come into play since a pendulum requires some vertical motion.
Steve

DickLeonard
07-18-2006, 05:39 AM
Ceebee the only fault with break speed it doesn't measure the explosion factor of the cueball.

I have stated before that I racked balls for Troys Break Wizard who put all nineballs in on the Break. He hadn't played in 5 years, when I racked balls for 3+hours in that time the least balls he put in was two and the most was 6. He was 5ft5 and 125 lbs. He never lunged, no violent stroking just hit the cueball solid and a bomb went off. He held the cue in the last two fingers with his thumb and first two fingers dangling loosely.

I had talked with Paul Dayton, the cuemaker and Paul said in a room with 50 players all breaking at once he knew the sound of Andy's break would be the loudest.

I called him the Eighth Wonder of the World because there was no explanation for the action generated on the cueball. No cueball traveling at the speed of light,No mighty launching of the cue just a mini atom bomb when the cueball met the oneball.####

cushioncrawler
07-18-2006, 06:04 AM
Yes, Steve, i see your point -- without digging into my diaryz and excel calculations, i think that the air-drag correction for a pendulum would be of the order of only say 1%, ie 101% -- no big deal -- the longer the cotton (ie pendulum) the bigger the correction.

But i allways thort that table reaction and table friction etc didnt take much speed of a real break -- i thort that ideally the qball was hit dead-center and slightly downwards (unavoidably), and hence that ideally the qball crashed into the pack on the full. No big deal.

The critical thing i guess is the qball speed at impact -- ie having travelled (flown) allmost 6' -- whereas the qball breaks the laser at say 3' -- no big deal, unless, as u say, table friction does in fact rear its ugly head. If so, then players who fly the qball into the pack are getting a raw deal from the laser, compared to players who skid the ball into the pack.