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View Full Version : Why do you blame Bush for the borders.



FrankW
04-28-2006, 09:27 AM
Why do you blame Bush for the borders,And let me make it clear I don't support Bush nor did I vote for Bush.But to place the border blame on Bush is wrong.He hasn't done much to help but who has.....If the Dems want to when the vote and my vote.Stop pointing fingers and come up with some sollutions to the problem.The blame game has no ending...

Sid_Vicious
04-28-2006, 09:50 AM
My reason is simple. 9-11. This country has a particular need right now today to for security, we have a national guard, and by it's own name, it's function certainly could be served along the border to control in place of the Minutemen. Along with this is Bush's obvious hand-holding with Fox-pres-of-Mexico. Yea I blame the Chimp. Shutting that border down today should be an automatic task, and Bush is too focused on globalization and pandering to business' using illegal, cheap peolpe to cut his buddies' grass, all during a time where bad people could come across that border and attack us again. He ain't doing his job, just bumping his gums when the politics fits his needs...sid.

Lester
04-28-2006, 09:54 AM
Sid_Vicious wrote:

My reason is simple. 9-11. This country has a particular need right now today to for security, we have a national guard, and by it's own name, it's function certainly could be served along the border to control in place of the Minutemen

%%%%%%%%%%%

I agree Sid. And this is the Minutemens goal as well.

jtlabs
04-30-2006, 05:55 PM
Sid, the terrorist at 911 did not enter this country illegal. That what many people overlook. I think everyone is so stocked with fear, thx to bush, that its now coming to bite him in the ass.

DickLeonard
05-01-2006, 05:02 AM
Frank he was Gov of Texas before becoming pres and did nothing to stop them then nor now. 9/12/01 we should have closed the Borders and they all should have been sent packing till they could be verified. I know they are not responsible for the importing of illegal drugs or criminal gangs in LA but are all law abiding citizens.

Now they all should be rounded up fingerprinted, have their DNA tested and weed out the unwanted,after a date all illegals aliens should be imprisoned. Otherwise we might as well annex Mexica and South America. I know Osama is having his followers learning Spanish and fly airplanes,landing them is optional.####

Gayle in MD
05-02-2006, 05:56 AM
Where did you get that information? My information is that some were here illegally, had phoney drivers permits, and other documents that had been tampered with.

Also, while Bush isn't the only president who has failed to addres this issue, I can't think of any president who has sent out a bigger welcome, or a more freindly invitation to them, can you? His statements about "Jobs Americans will not do," make me furious. We have plenty of people out of work, many would do those jobs, if the illegal population hadn't driven down wages in many industries. I know of a family on the Eastern shore, across the Bay, who have lost everything. The whole family worked in the crab picking industry there, and the women cleaned houses in the winter, and illegals came in and worked illegally for much less, in both venues. These are hard working American citizens, though not highly educated, whose home is now gone. They've lost everything, all because of illegal aliens.

Gayle in Md,

jtlabs
05-02-2006, 12:53 PM
Oh give me a break. House cleaning is a private business and their is no set standard for how much to pay your house cleaner. You assume that they lost business because of someone taking lower pay but could it also be that they worked harder? I am sure you would not hear that part of the story from your friend. I happen to know many illegals that happen to work their ass off and get paid more then an American would point blank. In fact, their is one cable company sub-division who always hired Hispanics who had their documents and work permits just because they worked harder then anyone else. My friend worked for this one company and this guy took care of him quite well.

Another thing I like to add is that people are always making excuses, I for one would never let my family ever go homeless no matter what. Their is always a way.

SpiderMan
05-02-2006, 02:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> Oh give me a break. House cleaning is a private business and their is no set standard for how much to pay your house cleaner. You assume that they lost business because of someone taking lower pay but could it also be that they worked harder? <hr /></blockquote>

Even if that were the case, and it very well may be so, hard work does not negate the crime committed by illegal entry.

When an escaped convict is caught, even after 20 years of productive lifestyle and maybe a family having no idea of his past, he is still treated as what he is ... an escaped convict (though hardworking).

SpiderMan

jtlabs
05-02-2006, 04:35 PM
Hello Spiderman,

Not even the same thing. Martin Luther King put it best,

"What Hitler did during the holocaust was legal."
I think calling immigrants criminals and then demanding their Arrest is unethical.

All I see is a bunch of insecure people who can only place blame on other INNOCENT human lives. People been complaining about immigration since the beginning, legal or not. I think people who usually go about blaming others are really insecure with themselves in a similar way that a pool player who is insecure with his game goes about blaming everything under the sun. Weather its the black man blaming the white man or the left blaming the right or vice versa, it all boils down to ones own insecurity. It is easier to blame others then it is to take accountability for your failures. I think people need to get off their high horse and actually seize this opportunity to help their fellow man out their trenches instead of trying to dig a deeper hole for them.

Regards,
Jay

SpiderMan
05-02-2006, 04:50 PM
We should ignore laws we feel are outdated or otherwise inconvenient, or those that hamper our well-being? Damn, I think I'll quit paying my school taxes.

The Mexicans who want to freely violate our borders beat, rob, rape, and kill the Central American immigrants who "take the jobs they don't want to do". They complain that they depress wages and don't pay taxes.

SpiderMan

SnakebyteXX
05-02-2006, 05:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> We should ignore laws we feel are outdated or otherwise inconvenient, or those that hamper our well-being?

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Hmmmm... let me think... How about driving over the speed limit? Or fudging on your Income taxes? Not too long ago oral sex was illegal in most States - probably still is in a few. How about oral sex between consenting adults in a State where it's against the law? And what about smoking a little weed now and again?

The list goes on. Truth is that many if not all of us break the law from time to time and for one reason or another.

It doesn't make us evil. Or does it?

Snake

jtlabs
05-02-2006, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the quick reply.

I think people should do whats right. And the law is not always right. I never said that their was not criminals that actually existed, but their are plenty more innocent people that come out of that border. Additionally, Mexicans seem to be the poster child for this ideal, but their is illegal immigrants all over, from Chinese to European. Most of them are honest families with children seeking refuge. But you do not hear that in the news because the good things do not get ratings. I think if people actually worked with the immigrants instead of shunning them, we would be able to control the situation better. Instead, we have communities not even wanting to be seen associating with a "immigrant" (stems from insecurity) and as a result no progress is ever made.

My point is, why should the innocent suffer because of the guilty? That's not the way life should be lived and it does not have to be that way.

Gayle in MD
05-03-2006, 03:49 AM
Really? FYI, when the whole family loses their jobs at once, keeping a roof over their heads isn't that easy. Also, Houscleaning is no longer a private business in this area, FYI. Ever heard of Merry Maids, that's just one of the small business which now do most of the contracts for house cleaning.

Also, colleges are reporting difficulty of many kids who had schrlarships but had to work to stay in school, are now having to drop out because they can't get summer and evening jobs in the restraurant business, or the landscaping business because of the influx of Illegal aliens, and the drop in wages.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
05-03-2006, 03:54 AM
You certainly have turned it around into something it isn't, as regards whose guilty and whose innocent. They are NOT immigrants, they are ILLEGAL ALIENS. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with immigrants, or discrimination. It is a matter of the LAW!

Gayle in Md.

Lester
05-03-2006, 05:32 AM
Well if they're here "illegally", then they're guilty of breaking the law.

Here are some "eye opening" statistics, if they are true.


1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people)
are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are
predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.

2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.

3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal
aliens.

4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien
Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.

5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican
nationals here illegally.

6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in
garages.

7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most
likely illegal aliens from south of the border.

8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.

9. 21 radio stations in L.A. are Spanish speaking.

10. In L.A.County 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak
Spanish (10.2 million people in L.A.County).

(All 10 from the Los Angeles Times)

Less than 2% of illegal aliens are picking our crops but 29% are on
welfare. http://www.cis.org/

Over 70% of the United States annual population growth (and over 90% of
California, Florida, and New York) results from immigration.

The cost of illegal immigration to the American taxpayer in 1997 was a
NET (after subtracting taxes immigrants pay) $70 BILLION a year,
[Professor Donald Huddle Rice University].

The lifetime fiscal impact (taxes paid minus services used) for the
average adult Mexican immigrant is a NEGATIVE

29% of inmates in federal prisons are illegal aliens.

DO YOU LIKE THE WAY YOUR TAXES ARE BEING SPENT????????????

B.T.W.
These statistics were sent to me in an email, though they list the source as L.A.Times, and an immigration website. I haven't checked either out for authenticity.

Sid_Vicious
05-03-2006, 06:21 AM
""Also, colleges are reporting difficulty of many kids...having to drop out because they can't get summer and evening jobs"

Many here with children will see the same result as this progresses, plus with the education benefits arising toward that particular minority, the loans and such will also become tougher to get. The reality will eventually catch up with those who argue for illegals...give it time if it's not already...sid

jtlabs
05-03-2006, 06:24 AM
Hello Gayle,

I think the law needs to be modified and needs to be thought out properly. This country needs immigrants. You can not have a country that does not allow immigrants and has a dwindling population at the same time. A nation simply can not function like that. We need a lot more then just what the legal immigration ring is bringing and that's just the way things are.

On another note, do you think that all illegals enter that way because it is easier? No they go for their visa's and get denied because their country refuses to let them leave(the last thing they want is a barren land to govern, they much rather have a people and war instead). But when your a human being, and it is a matter of life and death, a piece of paper seems irrelevant.

I think a lot of people need to humble themselves and be thankful their not in that situation and be more then willing to help people in those situations. Instead they rather call names, and shout about the law of the land even though most of those people have broken laws themselves at some point in their life(weather they got caught or not).

Additionally, I know about Merry Maids, and if someone wants to compete with a business they have to A.) do a good job and get referrals B.) advertise better. Merry Maids has a lot of weaknesses in their business that the self employed cleaner can exploit easily to get customers.

Finally, you can not tell me that every person on this board reported every tip they ever got to the IRS, or took a job off the books at some point. Not everyone but a good amount of Americans do just that yet they complain about illegal immigrants not paying taxes. Additionaly, many illegals actually pay taxes after they go through the system and get a work permit which is what every illegals short term goal is. It is much easier for them to survive in the tax paying system then it is to beg for work they may or may not get. So no, illegals do not have it good at all.

Regards,
Jacin

Sid_Vicious
05-03-2006, 06:27 AM
What part of illegal do people not understand? Had Bill C. been one of them with soggy socks, he surely would have skated on his little esapade in the WH bathroom /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif by the standards trying to be defended here. Seriously, illegal is where it starts and ends and you are whipping a dead horse to argue against that fact...sid

jtlabs
05-03-2006, 06:33 AM
Maybe that's because the majority of people in Los Angeles are illegals. So naturally most of the crime in a city made up of mostly illegals is going to be done by illegals. Here is "eye opening statistic", the majority of crack/cocaine and every illegal drug under the sun that is used in Beverly Hills is done by %100 Legal Americans.

Regards,
Jay

Lester
05-03-2006, 06:35 AM
Jacin wrote:

Additionaly, many illegals actually pay taxes after they go through the system and get a work permit which is what every illegals short term goal is. It is much easier for them to survive in the tax paying system then it is to beg for work they may or may not get. So no, illegals do not have it good at all.
%%%%%%%%%%

Illegal means "against the law". If they snuck in without authorization, then they are "BREAKING THE LAW". Would love to have them as "legal" immigrants.

Lester
05-03-2006, 06:40 AM
Jacin wrote:

Maybe that's because the majority of people in Los Angeles are illegals. So naturally most of the crime in a city made up of mostly illegals is going to be done by illegals. Here is "eye opening statistic", the majority of crack/cocaine and every illegal drug under the sun that is used in Beverly Hills is done by %100 Legal Americans.

Regards,
Jay
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

I could believe that Jay. I wouldn't even ask anyone in Beverly Hills to see their "Green Card". lol

jtlabs
05-03-2006, 06:41 AM
Hey Sid,

The only loan that caters to minorities are from the private sector. They call those scholarships. As far as student loans, anyone whose anyone can get those as long as everything is legit.

Finally I like to point out that the world economy is dwindeling and it has nothing to do with immigration, everything is going to crash, read "The dollar crises." But I already know what is going to happen, poor white people are going to blame poor minorities and that leads to stupidity and needless violence.

It just feels good inside to blame other people instead of trying to figure out a way to get out of a situation that is probaly no ones fault.

Regards,
Jay

Gayle in MD
05-03-2006, 06:54 AM
That is exactly the point that we are all trying to get through. The discussion is about illegals, and you just said yourself "Naturally most of the crime in a city made of of mostly illegals, is going to be done by illegals" Are these the same people we are supposed to believe are only "Hard working good people." What do you think the crime rate is going to be if we continue to have millions of illegal people coming here, undocumented, flying under the radar, and mooching on the rest of us who are already burdened by politicians who are so thoroughly on the take from the Corporate billionaire CEO's that the middle class in this country is already carrying way more than their share. As far as I'm concerned, the word, immigration has no place in a discussion about illegal aliens. Yet you continue to blend the two together. They are two entirely different issues.

Gayle in Md.

SpiderMan
05-03-2006, 07:06 AM
I do agree with what you just said, ie the innocent should not suffer because of the guilty. Those immigrants who followed the law, and are working in here legally, should not be stigmatized because of those who crossed the border illegally. It is an unfortunate fact that, because we are often lax (and sometimes forbidden, see Deeman postings) to perform actual verification of (job applicant's) status, the legal and illegal immigrants are difficult to separate.

If we could be more rigorous in punishment and deportation of illegals, then the legal imigrants might have a better time of it.

SpiderMan

jtlabs
05-03-2006, 07:06 AM
Gayle,

Now it is clear to me, your afraid of everything the media reports but however your missed my point. If their is a island with 1,000 white people on a island, it is quite obvious that the 100 percent of the crime on that area is going to be done by white people.

I like to put forward a concept that may be new to many people, crime is a reflection of social status not racial status. So you can expect more crime in a dirt poor community then you can in a rich community. That is the way it has always been through out history no matter what country you go to. So if communities are living good you do not have to worry about crime. So the solution to crime is helping to raise a communities social status. And denying them citizenship or work permits is not the way. And denying education is definitely not the way.

Lester
05-03-2006, 07:14 AM
Jay wrote:
I like to put forward a concept that may be new to many people, crime is a reflection of social status not racial status. So you can expect more crime in a dirt poor community then you can in a rich community. That is the way it has always been through out history no matter what country you go to. So if communities are living good you do not have to worry about crime. So the solution to crime is helping to raise a communities social status. And denying them citizenship or work permits is not the way. And denying education is definitely not the way.
%%%%%%%%%%%%

Here's the concept you're not accepting Jay.

Everyone in an "illegal alien" community is already "BREAKING THE LAW". I don't care what color they are, they have no rights to education, welfare, health care because they are not citizens. Let them apply and enter this country legally, and they will be accepted with "open arms" ---- if they're country won't let them leave, they need to protest "their government". Not protest the government whose laws they've broken.

Gayle in MD
05-03-2006, 07:34 AM
That is precisely why it is bad for any society to overload itself with uneducated, undocumented, unlawful, poor people, faster than they can be integrated into the workforce legally. You don't seem to understand that civilized behavior is linked to the enforcement of LAWS. to use the argument that everyone breaks the law, sometimes, is not a fair premise. The issue of illegal aliens is not an issue of immigration. Every country has to determine at what rate, poor, uneducated, workers can be integrated into its society without undermining its social systems. Our Hospitals, schools, and workers wages, are all being detrimentally affected by this massive influx of illegal aliens. While we as Americans may wish the best for any people, anywhere in the world, who are being exploited by their government, such as Mexico is doing to its people, and we may want to reach out to them in political and financial support,... destroying our own health care and educational system for their benefit, is too much to ask of us, and that is exactly what is happening. Hospitals are having to close down due to Illegal Aliens who do NOT pay their bill.

There is a reason why people are expected to learn english before they can become citizens, and have a legal job awaiting them, and a relative, or friend, who can insure they will not end up living on the street, or in a garage, or in a house with six other families. What you want is for America to throw away all those safety measures which insure a civilized society, for the benefit of people who begin their relationship with the rest of us here by breaking our laws, the laws which protect our very way of life.

Hey, NO WAY! My personal message to Illegal Aliens is GO HOME! Others are waiting to come here in a legal way, respectful of our society, willing to learn our language, and abide by our laws, immigration laws, and others, and they were waiting first. Don't jump in front of the line, and think that you have a right to do that, just because you're Mexican!

I, for one, am totally and completely
sick and tired of people confusing immigrants, with illegal aliens, who are criminals! AND sick and tired of the American Middle Class paying for EVERYBODY else, from millionaires, to criminals!



Crime, exist on all levels of society. Poverty invites more crime. Mexican people do not want to integrate themselves into our society, legally, that's why they don't learn our language. The United States has made a big mistake by bending over backwards to integrate Spanish into OUR daily life. You can scream out the race card cry all you want, but you are ignoring every reasonable issues surrounding this problem, and YOU are placing the BLAME, and YOU are placing that BLAME, where it does not belong!

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
05-03-2006, 07:40 AM
If you dont want people just walking across the border put up a fence! Plus the 'Spy's in the sky', infra-red, etc They could change the flood into a trickle if they wanted.
The USA is paying millions for the Israelis to fence in the Palestinians, but they are lax on their own border! Even at a time of suppossed threat from foriegners, 7.9 million people have entered the US since 2000.[ CIS figures]
If you want to stop them trying to cross the border just make sure they cant get work. If their is no incentive to come- they wont come.
Are you going to put millions of illegals in jail to 'punish' them and cause a bigger problem ?

My 2ct- The criminals and the unemployed should be thrown out. The workers and law abiding people who are just looking for a better life should be given a chance of citizenship.

The other option is for the US to help mexico instead of exploiting it. ie NAFTA.

Q

Deeman3
05-03-2006, 07:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> Gayle,

Now it is clear to me, your afraid of everything the media reports but however your missed my point. If their is a island with 1,000 white people on a island, it is quite obvious that the 100 percent of the crime on that area is going to be done by white people.

I like to put forward a concept that may be new to many people, crime is a reflection of social status not racial status. So you can expect more crime in a dirt poor community then you can in a rich community. That is the way it has always been through out history no matter what country you go to. So if communities are living good you do not have to worry about crime. So the solution to crime is helping to raise a communities social status. And denying them citizenship or work permits is not the way. And denying education is definitely not the way. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> jtlabs,

There are stastics available the show you are very wrong about the case of poor being equated to crime. I will not post these as I don't want to be accused of having motives other than a politically correct discussion. I will say, if you earnestly check the statistics about crime in different racial communities as a product of their income and education, you will find very large differences in involvement in violent crime. In some cases, as much a 6 times the viloence for one group as opposed to another with almost exactly the same income, education and even within the same mixed community.

The why of this has been the quiet topic of many discussions to try to determine the root causes of this aberation with no satisfactory explainations.

</font color>

Lester
05-03-2006, 07:46 AM
Qtec wrote:

My 2ct- The criminals and the unemployed should be thrown out. The workers and law abiding people who are just looking for a better life should be given a chance of citizenship.
%%%%%%%%%
That's what we're having the problem with Qtec. Those looking for a better life that have snuck across the border ARE lawbreakers.
They would be welcome additions to the American community if they had got here "legally".

Gayle in MD
05-03-2006, 07:57 AM
This is not a country that does not allow immigrants, nor does it have a dwindling population, nor is it in need of more unlawful, uneducated, undocumented, non english speaking, on the take, moochers, to add to our poverty numbers, and social institutions. They are not Immigrants.

gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
05-03-2006, 08:00 AM
BRAVO !!!

Gayle in Md.

ceebee
05-03-2006, 09:22 AM
I blame Dubya, "The DICK-tater", because he knows what is happening &amp; has chosen NOT to STOP it.

Dubya is a traitor to America, &amp; history will say so in years to come. Big business is not a friend to citizens of this country, either, because capitalism is about capitalizing on the little guy's labor.

We have established that legal immigration is OK. I'd prefer 0 immigration, because we have too many people.

Legal immigration from "the Founding nations", is severely limited &amp; has been since 1964. Immigration now is from other countries, all non-english speaking.

The illegal alien problem should be curtailed immediately by local, state &amp; federal law enforcement. If 11 million illegal aliens, who do not &amp; can not VOTE, can force Congress to change the laws of this land, to fit their wants &amp; needs.... the folks that like to use drugs, without fear of prosecution, should get out into the streets &amp; raise some hell. That is the same kind of insanity, which the Congress might afford, because members of Congress are cowards.

Dubya should have released a statement to the Press, "when people show up for a public protest, they will be greeted by the National Guard". If you are a documented citizen of the USA, you will be allowed to carry on with your activities. If you are NOT a documented citizen of the USA, you will be immediately incarcerated &amp; held indefinitely for deportation or imprisonment.

Just so people know how illegal aliens can effect an area, Oklahoma is now the home of the "highest non-insured motorists", because of illegal aliens. Each &amp; every neighborhood they have taken over has become a city within itself, where the police do not go. Governor Henry is also a fool &amp; does nothing. Him &amp; his cronies probably have illegal aliens doing his garden &amp; temporarily repairing the roads (temporarily because their work is less than standard quality)

I also blame the business leaders &amp; Congress for the fall of America.

Lester
05-03-2006, 09:31 AM
CeeBee wrote:
Each &amp; every neighborhood they have taken over has become a city within itself, where the police do not go. Governor Henry is also a fool &amp; does nothing.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

A pool player I know told me had just been to Chicago. He said the cab driver he had, stopped at a certain spot right outside the city to pick up a "police escort" to go into the part of the city my friend wanted to go to. This is a little upsetting. Can anybody confirm this?

pooltchr
05-03-2006, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Those immigrants who followed the law, and are working in here legally, should not be stigmatized because of those who crossed the border illegally. <hr /></blockquote>

If we actually did something about the illegals, there wouldn't be any confusion about immigrants or illegals...because we wouldn't have the illegals!!!!
Steve