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HarryDC
07-07-2002, 05:47 AM
The new Women's World Champion Taiwan's Shin-Mei Liu of

Taiwan.

Shin-Mei Liu 11 Vs. 10 Karen Corr.

A thriller in Taiwan and Karen lost by one game. I will

only be sad until the next tournament. You will always be

my cahmpion Karen.

HarryDC

07-07-2002, 10:29 AM
This is a very tough tourney to win, and sadly the 3rd consecutive year Karen has finished runner-up - the last two years going hill-hill. I know it's sour grapes and I've said this before, but IMO for a World Championship the format really sucks. Once they get down to 16 players, then it's single elimination races to 7 until the final - a race to 11.

The format is that way for the same reason it's that way for ESPN televised WPBA events - for the excitement and time limitations for TV. The opinions of the pool players and the format they'd prefer to determine the most coveted title as the best player in the world have absolutely no bearing in the decision.

The fact that Karen and Allison combined have only won this title once in the last 4 years is no-brainer proof enough to me that this tourney does NOT determine the best player in the world. In retrospect to yesterdays post on JL's absence, part of me doesn't really blame JL for not participating in this event - as it simply doesn't justly test or reward the players as it should for a World Championship event. - Chris in NC

07-07-2002, 10:34 AM
partial snip:
In retrospect to yesterdays post on JL's absence, part of
me doesn't really blame JL for not participating in this event - as it simply doesn't justly test or reward the players as it should for a World Championship event. - Chris in NC
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;;;

Maybe if more pros would start missing or boycott some the tournaments, the tournaments would finally be changed for the betterment of pool, instead of for quickness or convience for ESPN.

07-07-2002, 12:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Chris in NC:</font><hr> This is a very tough tourney to win, and sadly the 3rd consecutive year Karen has finished runner-up - the last two years going hill-hill. I know it's sour grapes and I've said this before, but IMO for a World Championship the format really sucks. Once they get down to 16 players, then it's single elimination races to 7 until the final - a race to 11.

The format is that way for the same reason it's that way for ESPN televised WPBA events - for the excitement and time limitations for TV. The opinions of the pool players and the format they'd prefer to determine the most coveted title as the best player in the world have absolutely no bearing in the decision.

The fact that Karen and Allison combined have only won this title once in the last 4 years is no-brainer proof enough to me that this tourney does NOT determine the best player in the world. In retrospect to yesterdays post on JL's absence, part of me doesn't really blame JL for not participating in this event - as it simply doesn't justly test or reward the players as it should for a World Championship event. - Chris in NC <hr></blockquote>


i'm curious. how does this thing justify the title "world championship"?

dan

HarryDC
07-07-2002, 01:08 PM
Chris,

The semis were race to 9. Karen said she would do the best she could so I'm not going to bring out my sour grapes. If you go to hill hill in the final game of a race to 11 for $12,000.00 which I consider chicken feed for a pro, what more could a hard Corr fan of Karen's like me ask for?

Yea, it's not much of a tournament when you load it down with so many home folks. If you compare the WPA World rankings with the Chinese who played in the tournament it was nothing but a Taiwan feel good project.

The worst insult of all was Gerda Hofstatter and Kyoko Sone, two world class players having to play in the first stage. I've typed enough.

HarryDC

07-07-2002, 07:48 PM
Liu is no doubt a great player, and obviously a clutch big tournament player. She's now won 2 World 9-Ball titles in the last 4 years, winning both hill-hill against Karen this year and Allison in 1999. She also won the BCA U.S. Open 14.1 title in the early 90s, the last year they held it before the 2000 edition.

Other than that 14.1 title, she hasn't had much luck playing here in the States the little that she has. She gets a special international player invite into the Vegas BCA Open event every year, but has yet to make it to a TV match. She has played some TV matches in the Challenge of Champions event, but has yet to win that title either. It's just hard for me to think that Liu is quite in the same class as Allison or Karen - but then in all fairness I haven't seen her play much. One thing is for sure - she's very hard to beat on her home turf.

Being that the WPA World Championships are slated to be played again in Taiwan at least for the next few years, this will certainly make it tough on the others to wrestle that title away from her. I assume that any potential city and venue could submit a bid to host these championships, but very few have stepped forward in recent years. Chicago in 1997 was the last year the U.S. hosted it. From all accounts I heard from the players, both Alicante, Spain in 1999 and Quebec City in 2000 were both marginal venues with very questionable playing conditions and were poorly attended. At least in Taiwan pro pool players are worshipped like gods, the matches are televised, the players are truly appreciated and the event is well attended.

Lastly, congratulations to a strong showing by the contingent of U.S. Junior players. Michelle Rakin (one of the few females in the field) made it to the final 16 phase. Why they don't have a separate division for female junior players is beyond me. Tyler Straun (only 15) finished T3 - losing out in the semis to another U.S. product - Shane Hennen. Shane (only 16) was defeated in the finals by an Asian player. - Chris in NC

07-08-2002, 01:02 PM
Your postings made me wonder a little.
“The fact that Karen and Allison combined have only won this title once in the last 4 years is no-brainer proof enough to me that this tourney does NOT determine the best player in the world.“
Karen Corr made it 3 times to the final and did not win. Does this really tell us the tournament system is not working? IMO this shows two things:
A) Good player like Fisher, Corr or Shin-Mei Liu are very likely to make it to the finals.
B) Core may be still missing something to become a world champion.

IMHO there is no single tournament system which guarantees that the best player is winning. Some systems make it of course more likely than others.

You have to keep in mind that at a world championship are more player who can win a single race against player like Fisher or Corr than in a normal WPBA tournament. Therefore it becomes more difficult for them to win the tournament, even if they might be the best.

Another point is, that when players are coming from abroad to a tournament you might not see their best game. Jet Lag, different food and climate are likely to affect players. Shin-Mei Liu may have not played her best when playing in the USA, vice versa Fisher and Corr might not be on their top when playing in Taiwan.

The world championships would have been better if they would have longer races, but IMO only top players have been winning in the last years which shows quite well that the system is working.

mickey

07-08-2002, 05:20 PM
Mickey, you make some good points. Certainly there's nothing wrong with a race to 11 final. However, to get that opportunity in their format one has to go through a mine field of race to 7 single elimination matches. This is clearly not the best determination of the most skilled players in the world - and major upsets will be more likely to occur.

As to your final point, although I know Julie Kelly (the 2000 World Champion) as a friend and respect her as a player who gives her all in every match, I would not consider her a world champion calibre player. She played great and won the 2000 9-Ball World Championships, yet has failed to record a finish higher than tied for 7th place in her roughly 25 WPBA tournaments played to date - over 10 of those since winning that title. How can one possibly explain that?

As for Karen, I don't think she is missing anything from her game anymore that should prevent her from winning this title - other than possibly the pressure she may put on herself of being the #1 player in the world yet having never won this prestigious title. In beating Allison in all of those WPBA final matches the last few years to wrestle away the #1 ranking, Karen succeeded in something no one was able to come close to doing in the 6-7 years since Allison joined the tour.

The year Julie won it (Quebec 2000), if I'm not mistaken Karen and Allison met in the semi-finals - when they should have met in the finals. I believe that also happened in 1999 in Spain where Karen and Allison met in the semis, whereas Liu had a much easier path the finals playing Sone.

It is certainly too bad there aren't more tournaments in which ALL the top women players in the world compete in - so that we could make a truer determination of how they really stack up. - Chris in NC

Vagabond
07-08-2002, 07:47 PM
Hi Micky,
If u are the same Mickey from Maryland,Good hearing from u.In preparing for next year tournament both Karen and Allison should include eating chinese food in their practice sessions.LOL