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View Full Version : Missing any illegals?



Deeman3
05-01-2006, 08:38 AM
We don't seem to be missing one single Hispanic employee today despite the boycott. How about the rest of you?

Deeman

jtlabs
05-01-2006, 09:37 AM
You assume all hispanics are illegal. That is part of the ignorance of the former immigrants.

nAz
05-01-2006, 09:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> We don't seem to be missing one single Hispanic employee today despite the boycott. How about the rest of you?

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

My ride into work on the subway seem the same to me,the usual suspect were all there. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dee didn't your employer give the illegals the day off?

wolfdancer
05-01-2006, 09:52 AM
No, Dee's at work

Deeman3
05-01-2006, 10:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> You assume all hispanics are illegal. That is part of the ignorance of the former immigrants. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> No, you assume I think all hispanics are illegal. I know several that are not. </font color>

Deeman

Deeman3
05-01-2006, 10:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>

My ride into work on the subway seem the same to me,the usual suspect were all there. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dee didn't your employer give the illegals the day off?
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Naw, the evil bastards made them come in and work. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I have not even seen a Mexican flag but as President Fox is making all hard narcotics legal, maybe the flow will start in the other direction soon. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif</font color>

Deeman

Drop1
05-01-2006, 11:41 AM
That will be the lagacy of Fox,sniff.

jtlabs
05-01-2006, 11:48 AM
Your observation focused on Hispanics coming to work. So naturally someone would have to conclude that you believe all Hispanics are here illegally and thus should be protesting but instead are coming into work.

Deeman3
05-01-2006, 12:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jtlabs:</font><hr> Your observation focused on Hispanics coming to work. <font color="blue">Which they indeed, did. </font color> So naturally someone would have to conclude that you believe all Hispanics are here illegally <font color="blue">How would a rational person think this up out of what I said? </font color> and thus should be protesting but instead are coming into work. <font color="blue"> No, I happen to know that many of our hispanics are legal. My concern was that both illegal and legal workers would take off to wave Mexican flags and protest the policies of the U.S. government when the last flag they should be waving is the Mexican flag, a country that doesn't want them and does nothing to provide them opportuntites. Only the feeble minded would take all your "natural conclusions" from what I said. I want the little fellows to scurry across the border and take jobs our own are not willing and qualified to do. I just don't want them to do so illegally and demand the rights that so many earnest immigrants have worked so hard to achieve. Is it fair that hundreds of thousands have come here by abiding by the law then any scum that can swim a river be given the same thing free?

</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman
what have you been drinking, bad tequila?

Drop1
05-01-2006, 12:12 PM
Were missing one,but we got a bracelet on his leg.

Gayle in MD
05-01-2006, 12:48 PM
Do you by any chance know that any of them are illegal? Just wondering, because as wrong as I think it is not to enforce the law, If I were working with someone who was illegal, I doubt very much if I would turn them in for it, unless I thought they murdered or raped someone, or something like that.

Gayle in Md.

Deeman3
05-01-2006, 01:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Do you by any chance know that any of them are illegal? Just wondering, because as wrong as I think it is not to enforce the law, If I were working with someone who was illegal, I doubt very much if I would turn them in for it, unless I thought they murdered or raped someone, or something like that.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Gayle,

I have suspicions as, for instance, we have some with the same social security number as others. However, the law does not allow us to question documents that, "on their face" appear to be real. This will subject us to discrimination charges if any of them turn out to be legal residents. So, if we are given a document that is obviouoly a fake, we will not hire them. if it appears to be legitimate, we must accept it. The immigration web site shows what I'm speaking of. They (immigration) sort of scare you into accepting most as they know we are not document experts and cannot pretend to be.

I did know of some in Texas that had rape and murder convictions (as told to us by other Hispanics) but the convictions were not in this country. They got, in effect, a fresh start in America. I hate to say it but these are the smallest breed of people I have ever seen. In Texas, they were big guys on th whole, Here, in Alabama, they are very little runts with none being over like 5'. Also, here there are many more women mixed in with the groups. I'm not trying to be funny here but I guess the regular sized guys get jobs closer to the border and there are what is left over. They are not very aggressive unless they have problems with the women that are with them. There are small comunities forming all around this area of the state. Our county says there is less than .06% Hispanic population here. They have for sure missed a few in counting them. </font color>


Deeman

nAz
05-01-2006, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> No, Dee's at work <hr /></blockquote>

lol, good i was afriad he would get fired and replace by an legal American.

Deeman3
05-01-2006, 02:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> No, Dee's at work <hr /></blockquote>

lol, good i was afriad he would get fired and replace by an legal American. <hr /></blockquote>

NaZ,

Just my way of sticking it to The Man.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman

pooltchr
05-01-2006, 04:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Do you by any chance know that any of them are illegal? Just wondering, because as wrong as I think it is not to enforce the law, If I were working with someone who was illegal, I doubt very much if I would turn them in for it, unless I thought they murdered or raped someone, or something like that.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>
You're getting soft, Gayle. In another thread, you said you thought we should meet them at the boarder with guns in hand to encourage them to go back. But now you wouldn't do anything if you knew someone was here illegally? I'm confused! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve

9 Ball Girl
05-01-2006, 07:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr>How about the rest of you?

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>Not a problem here. They were all working: Hispanics, Greeks, Italians, Arabs, Russians, Asians, etc.

Gayle in MD
05-02-2006, 05:36 AM
LOL. hey, I still think border control comes first, and yes, with guns, and fences, and missiles, it that's what it takes, lol. I'm just saying, I personally could not turn a co worker in, someone I knew, and worked with. So, I do understand the many who know and have worked with the illegals who work hard, and are good people, taking the opposing view on illegals. But, the border is the answer, and fines on the empoloyers, and our law enforcers should be given orders to arrest illegals, and confine them for deprotation. Our present policies encourage illegals to come. Ronald Reagan started this mess, you know, Clinton looked the other way, and Bush is sending them invitations! If laws are ignored, why have them?

Gayle...couldn't be a squealer....

Rich R.
05-02-2006, 05:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> I have suspicions as, for instance, we have some with the same social security number as others. However, the law does not allow us to question documents that, "on their face" appear to be real. This will subject us to discrimination charges if any of them turn out to be legal residents. So, if we are given a document that is obviouoly a fake, we will not hire them. if it appears to be legitimate, we must accept it. <hr /></blockquote>
Deeman, doesn't your company have an obligation to keep your book keeping in order?
If you have more than one person with the same Social Security number, obviously only one of them, at most, could be correct. These numbers should be clarified, so your company could accurately report earnings for these people. I don't think this would be considered discrimination, as long as you clarified the same information from all other employees, not just Hispanics.

BTW, if more than one person ever applies for Social Security benefits, with the same number, chances are good that your company will be requested to search their records at that time, to associate the correct wages with the correct person. I think it is easier and less expensive to do it now.

Deeman3
05-02-2006, 07:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <hr /></blockquote>
Deeman, doesn't your company have an obligation to keep your book keeping in order? <font color="blue"> Yes, of course, we did not hire one of the two with the same social security number but I was serious about how much warning there is on the Immigration Web Site itself about discrimination. </font color>
If you have more than one person with the same Social Security number, obviously only one of them, at most, could be correct. <font color="blue"> We did have suspicions that both were not valid but as one had a "valid appearing document" while the other was more questionable. </font color> These numbers should be clarified, so your company could accurately report earnings for these people. I don't think this would be considered discrimination, as long as you clarified the same information from all other employees, not just Hispanics. <font color="blue"> Immigration warns that we should check questionable documents but does not tell us what those are and, again, warns us not to be discriminatory in application of validation of the documents. Our lawyer, a Hispanic, is very well versed in the law and will only question outright questionable documents. </font color>

BTW, if more than one person ever applies for Social Security benefits, with the same number, chances are good that your company will be requested to search their records at that time, to associate the correct wages with the correct person. I think it is easier and less expensive to do it now. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">I've been guilty of saying some of what you are saying but we pay people that tell me we are doing all we can. I still question them on this each week.

By the way, I have roundtable discussions with representative groups of employees several times each month. I do this, as well, with groups of Hispanic employees. I provide important notices in three languages and I make sure all employees have a voice in our company.</font color>


Deeman

SpiderMan
05-02-2006, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Yes, of course, we did not hire one of the two with the same social security number but I was serious about how much warning there is on the Immigration Web Site itself about discrimination.

We did have suspicions that both were not valid but as one had a "valid appearing document" while the other was more questionable.

Our lawyer, a Hispanic, is very well versed in the law and will only question outright questionable documents. <hr /></blockquote>

Dee,

If two people, presumably both of the same nationality, show up at the same time looking for work at the same company, and present the same social-security number, that seems to be more than coincidence - it's definitely falling into the "outright questionable" category. I am amazed that your company assumed that one of them was on the level. The better-looking documentation was surely just a better forgery.

If two engineers showed up at the same time with identical resumes, would you check references or just hire the one whose copy was made on the nicer paper?

SpiderMan

Deeman3
05-02-2006, 08:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Yes, of course, we did not hire one of the two with the same social security number but I was serious about how much warning there is on the Immigration Web Site itself about discrimination.

We did have suspicions that both were not valid but as one had a "valid appearing document" while the other was more questionable.

Our lawyer, a Hispanic, is very well versed in the law and will only question outright questionable documents. <hr /></blockquote>

Dee,

If two people, presumably both of the same nationality, show up at the same time looking for work at the same company, and present the same social-security number, that seems to be more than coincidence - it's definitely falling into the "outright questionable" category. I am amazed that your company assumed that one of them was on the level. The better-looking documentation was surely just a better forgery.

If two engineers showed up at the same time with identical resumes, would you check references or just hire the one whose copy was made on the nicer paper? <font color="blue"> Spiderman, if the two engineers who showed up were non-American, we would just throw them both out. It's not so simple as that when it comes to the discrimination laws. Again, our problem is the statement by our Immigration Service. They say we cannot question documentation without just cause on the validity of the document. Now, you can make an argument that both may have been bogus but we can't determine that, by law, unless we see evidence that clearly indicates the document itself is bogus.

Hey, if you guys can get this simplified, I'll do what I can to help curb the abuse but it's just not as simple as even I'd like it to be. They set the employer up for all kinds of fines and suits if we do something wrong. It's just simpler to go alone with their program rather than risk major problems. I had a manager say, "Let's just stop hiring immigrants!" I had to tell him, let's stop hiring illegal immigrants but it's often not as simple as it seems at first glance.

All this aside from the other issues. Hire someone who will be here each day and work hard vs. someone who will show up when they want, argue every job given, abuse the leave and health care system. I am not saying most of our employees are this way. However, as we have exhausted the supply of good workers in the area, we have less than desirable candidates left.

I only want safe, good workers who show up and do their job and, hopefully, those that want to develop more skills and grow with our company. By the way, I am taking a group of 5 outstanding employees to Korea next week as a reward for a job well done. We will visit national parks, the Korean theater, shrines, etc. Most of these floks have never been on an airplane and none have been outside this country. I offered this opportunity to two Hispanics but they would not go.

</font color>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Sid_Vicious
05-02-2006, 09:43 AM
I really do not understand the system. Employees have always had to give a SS# as long as I have lived, and Uncle Sam gets that reported number, so why are those giving bogus and duplicated SS#s nabbed very quickly? Something is amiss for valid SS card holders to have to find that someone has been using their number for months and years. I know of two people personally who have had this reported way after the fact. Somebody's failing the system put in place...sid

Deeman3
05-02-2006, 01:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> I really do not understand the system. Employees have always had to give a SS# as long as I have lived, and Uncle Sam gets that reported number, so why are those giving bogus and duplicated SS#s nabbed very quickly? Something is amiss for valid SS card holders to have to find that someone has been using their number for months and years. I know of two people personally who have had this reported way after the fact. Somebody's failing the system put in place...sid <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Sid,

Certainly the system is failing. This should not be news to anyone. This is not new. Today, we had a call from a woman who was having her food stamps cut off as the government shows we have her husband working on our night shift. Problem is, this guy does not work for my company and, according to his wife has been unemployed for 22 years (Probably been looking real hard). Now, the hispanic that used this poor guy's social security card is being hauled up to H.R. to be let go.

Now, the guy had the required I.D. (I have just seen copies) and with today's copy technology, the junk we see looks maybe better than the government puts out. I certainly can't ell the difference. By the way, we can't even ask that they provide certain I.D. nothing other than any two items on the list of approved I.D. So if that resident alien card looks a little shady even, if he/she has any other I.D. on the list, we have to treat them like U.S. citizens, because it is in the realm of remote possibility that they are, amego. Thhis has not changed since well before our current president, who I will agree is as bad as the rest of the politicians.

Now, you guys who argued for hours over hanging chads and weather a hole had been punched, expect us to be able to acretain the validity of a government issued card that you can copy the components from off any state web site? Yep....</font color>

Deeman
1 down, 116 more to go....

Lester
05-02-2006, 02:20 PM
Deeman wrote:
Spiderman, if the two engineers who showed up were non-American, we would just throw them both out. It's not so simple as that when it comes to the discrimination laws. Again, our problem is the statement by our Immigration Service. They say we cannot question documentation without just cause on the validity of the document. Now, you can make an argument that both may have been bogus but we can't determine that, by law, unless we see evidence that clearly indicates the document itself is bogus.
%%%%%%%%%%%%

What happens if you call the police and tell them that these two individuals have the same SSA card? Isn't it a felony to steal another's SSA number? I mean, isn't that "identity theft" because the credit approval/disapproval search system works from your SSA number?

Lester
05-02-2006, 02:27 PM
Deeman3 wrote:
Now, the hispanic that used this poor guy's social security card is being hauled up to H.R. to be let go.
%%%%%%%%%

That's BS, Deeman. He doesn't need to be "let go", he needs to be charged. They probably found the discrepancy when IRS wanted your employee's husband to pay income taxes on what was reported he made. (Uncle Sam doesn't play with taxes.) I thought Identity Theft was a felony?

Deeman3
05-02-2006, 03:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Lester:</font><hr> Deeman3 wrote:
Now, the hispanic that used this poor guy's social security card is being hauled up to H.R. to be let go.
%%%%%%%%%

That's BS, Deeman. He doesn't need to be "let go", he needs to be charged. They probably found the discrepancy when IRS wanted your employee's husband to pay income taxes on what was reported he made. (Uncle Sam doesn't play with taxes.) <font color="blue"> No, they want to cut out their food stamps, the government obviously reported the guy (or at least his SSN, as going to work) to the food stamp people.</font color> I thought Identity Theft was a felony? <font color="blue"> I did too. You would be surprised at how the level of arrest and prosecution has "ADJUSTED ITSELF" over the last few years. If you think all these criminals are going to jail that you see on COPs, you have been watching too much TV. Heck, now even child molestation is something probation is given out for. </font color>

<font color="blue">Lester,

I'll call a security guard and arrest him. Don't you know police departments are telling there officers not to even ask if a person is illegal? This has made the papers on several occasiuons this week. I might get a cop out here for a meth lab in the building but an illegal alien? You are dreaming.

If it makes any of you feel even a little bit better, I have advised my H.R. Manager to question when an obviouly Hispanic person gives an I.D. with Irving Rothstein, or Robert Jones, etc. I am having trouble believing I had to tell tham this. They just nodded... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif </font color>


Deeman

<hr /></blockquote>

Lester
05-03-2006, 03:00 AM
Deeman3 wrote:

Lester,

I'll call a security guard and arrest him. Don't you know police departments are telling there officers not to even ask if a person is illegal? This has made the papers on several occasiuons this week. I might get a cop out here for a meth lab in the building but an illegal alien? You are dreaming.

If it makes any of you feel even a little bit better, I have advised my H.R. Manager to question when an obviouly Hispanic person gives an I.D. with Irving Rothstein, or Robert Jones, etc. I am having trouble believing I had to tell tham this. They just nodded...
%%%%%%%%%%

I saw on the news that Colorado has this policy. Illegal question only comes up when another crime is going to be charged. This is "unacceptable", IMO. Just look at the position employers are put in. It shouldn't be your job to "catch" illegal aliens, and then they "tie your hands" about the questions you can ask? Well, can you refuse to hire anyone because you suspect they may be illegal? I guess it would be discrimination if you refused to hire hispanics, because you can't tell if their legal or not.

Deeman3
05-03-2006, 05:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Lester:</font><hr> Just look at the position employers are put in. <font color="blue"> Exactly. </font color> It shouldn't be your job to "catch" illegal aliens, and then they "tie your hands" about the questions you can ask? Well, can you refuse to hire anyone because you suspect they may be illegal? <font color="blue"> No, for just the reason you state here. if I don't hire one because I suspect he/she is illegal I can be sued. This is one of the many dirty little secrets they don't tell you about on the news.</font color> I guess it would be discrimination if you refused to hire hispanics, because you can't tell if their legal or not.


Deeman


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