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cueball1950
05-01-2006, 07:56 PM
TO ALL: Please don't turn this into an abortion rights thread!!! PLEASE
I was at a dinner the other night and this has been bothering me ever since. I do not want this thread to turn into an abortion conflict. Anyway, the talk turned to politics and abortion and i was very surprised that most of the people there were of the position that they could never again vote for a democrat, no matter who it is or what office it is, because the democrats passed the law legalizing abortions. I just find it odd that this whole conversation turned on this subject. What ever happend to voting for the best qualified person. Wether that person is democrat, republican or conservative.? would you place your vote on something like that. i am a registered democrat but i vote for who ever i feel will do the right job and do it best. regardless of their political party,,,,,,,,mike

Drop1
05-01-2006, 08:21 PM
There are a lot of Republicans that favor abortion. Course they have pregnant daughters. Stop hanging out with Republicans,or you will get head lice. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran Crimi
05-02-2006, 03:47 AM
Mike, I think it's a matter of what's most important to you as a voter. To many people, the abortion issue is a main issue to them and the truth of the matter is if you vote democratic, it's logical to believe that that democrat will not support any anti abortion proposed legislation.

Fran

Fran Crimi
05-02-2006, 03:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> There are a lot of Republicans that favor abortion. Course they have pregnant daughters. Stop hanging out with Republicans,or you will get head lice. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I don't get it. Why would you get head lice for hanging out with republicans?

Fran

Gayle in MD
05-02-2006, 04:10 AM
Hi Mike, How's things? Just wondering, how many were there? I guess I'm as stuck on the issue as your friends, I would never vote for a candidate who didn't support women's rights.

Take care friend...

Gayle

pooltchr
05-02-2006, 04:48 AM
Mike,
I am afraid that too many people get stuck on one or two issues, and forget that the person they elect is going to have an impact on many different aspects of life in this country. And the political parties have a way of picking and choosing the issues they run on, based on what they think will get the most votes. I dare say that the top issue in 08 will be immigration, not abortion. Just a guess.
I'm with you...vote for the best overall candidate, not the one that makes a stand you like on one issue. Maybe it's too much work for many to do the research on the candidates, so they just pick one and find a reason to support them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve

Sid_Vicious
05-02-2006, 05:54 AM
I hear where you are coming from. it seems to me that many Americans somewhere in time decided that there is something or someone they will NOT vote for, no matter what the overall person they are voting against could really do overall. I personally will admit that I've never liked Republican policies, and yet G Bush senior was one of my favorites during some of his debates on TV. I pride myself in having an open mind, but that open mind gives me a lot to calculate also, and this current situation certainly has me "anything but Republican" status. So much for an open mind huh ;-) I have friends who voted last two times because they were convinced the Dems would take their guns away. Every other thing was invisible to them after this belief was imbedded with them. They are my friends, but I have to state that IMO they are dumb voters by not studying all of the features of an individual, besides the guns were never threatened anyway. We as a society have seemingly become easily swayed through mental imagery...a dismal evolution to voters, whether it be fear or anger, it limits the best candidate and our country's best chance to continue as the leader in the world. Jm2c...sid

One more admission. I thought Clinton was a joke when he got elected, and I was an Arkansan for the most of my life. In retrospect, I was a 100% wrong. Nuff said sv

SpiderMan
05-02-2006, 08:40 AM
We all wish to elect someone who will make policy "just as we would". One way of doing this is to look for someone who seems to believe as you do on certain key issues.

While I may care about many varied issues, I may have no hard evidence on how a given politician will perform with regard to those. So instead I look for someone who "thinks like me" in certain key areas, hoping that he will "act like me" on other issues when the time comes. Sid thinks I only care about my guns, but apparently he didn't consider my bigger picture.

The people with whom you were associated are probably not single-issue voters. Instead, they have chosen an issue which they believe is an indicator of the politician's general proclivity. They are essentially saying that, once in office, the politician who supports convenience killing of unborn infants will be disappointing in other ways as well.

SpiderMan

Deeman3
05-02-2006, 08:50 AM
Very well said Spiderman....

cueball1950
05-02-2006, 10:44 PM
Hi gayle.. There were maybe 25 to 30 people. I should say well educated people as most were professionals, ie: teachers, chemists, architects, accountants etc:.. My step daughter married into this rather large family and both she and her husband are both teachers with tenure in the local school district. Apparently every one of her inlaws are very strict catholics and absolutely will never vote for a democrat for the reasons stated previously. Which i think is totally unreal. Apparently her husbands family votes the way that mom and dad think. No one, and i mean no one in their family had better get caught voting the other way. What i find weird is that they oppose this item the way the do, yet can condone a pre marriage pregnacy as a couple of the family members had children before marriage. If they are that strict in regards to the catholic religion then how can they condone this other item. maybe i just have to stop hanging out with such high class people and come back down to where i belong..with real people.............mike

Gayle in MD
05-03-2006, 03:16 AM
I guess people of all beliefs tend to move their line around, Mike. I often think of Kate Michaelmen's story, married and crazy in love with her husband for many years, three little girls to raise, then one day her husband, (she had put through college) walked in and told her he was in love with a younger woman, and leaving. Three weeks later, she learned she was pregnant, and facing a future, not only living in poverty, but raising her daughters alone. The story she tells, of having to go before a panel of men , in order to get permission to abort the fetus, and in the midst of a broken heart, is quite a story.

It doesn't surprise me to hear your description of this group, and their lack of autonomous thinking.

Gayle in Md.

Lester
05-03-2006, 03:36 AM
People forget that when they vote for a candidate, they usually do so on the candidate's position on issues they care about.
However, once elected, that person represents the majority view of his constituents. The "majority" view is how this representative votes.
It's easy to feel that your vote for this candidate was betrayed.

Fran Crimi
05-03-2006, 05:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No one, and i mean no one in their family had better get caught voting the other way. <hr /></blockquote>

How does one go about getting caught voting the other way?

Just wondering....

Fran /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cueball1950
05-03-2006, 02:25 PM
What i should have explained further Fran in what i meant by that statement. i should have used the term talking about voting the other way and for a democrat. I can't honestly in my heart and mind think that they would all vote the way mommy and daddy do once they get into the privacy of the booth. Just don't make any sense to me that they all would. Afterall they are not robots................mike

Fran Crimi
05-03-2006, 09:59 PM
Well, there are people who have the same beliefs as their parents do. It's not unheard of. Just because they believe the same as their parents doesn't necessarily mean they're brainwashed or afraid of their parents.

It just seems like you differ from their beliefs and that's why you can't understand how they are the way they are.

Fran

DickLeonard
05-04-2006, 10:39 AM
Mike all religious are whackos starting with the President right on down. They use one Commandment to obey and F**K the others. As a father of 5 daughters I don't want any bribe taking lying scum bag having control over their body. It is theirs end of the discussion.

It is alright to bomb innocent people that is not included in Thou Shall Not Kill.

It is alright for Jack Abramoff to bribe everyone, that is business as usual that is not included in Thou Shall not Steal.

Mike I just get sick of Bible Blabbing Idiots and Idiots Annointed by Karl Rove to be President.####

SnakebyteXX
05-04-2006, 12:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr>
It is alright to bomb innocent people that is not included in Thou Shall Not Kill.

#### <hr /></blockquote>

Your post reminded me of an old article written for 'The Onion" (a satirical online magazine):

God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule

September 26, 2001 | Issue 37•34

NEW YORK— Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans killing each other Monday.

"Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again," said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. "Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand."

Worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, God said His name has been invoked countless times over the centuries as a reason to kill in what He called "an unending cycle of violence."

"I don't care how holy somebody claims to be," God said. "If a person tells you it's My will that they kill someone, they're wrong. Got it? I don't care what religion you are, or who you think your enemy is, here it is one more time: No killing, in My name or anyone else's, ever again."

The press conference came as a surprise to humankind, as God rarely intervenes in earthly affairs. As a matter of longstanding policy, He has traditionally left the task of interpreting His message and divine will to clerics, rabbis, priests, imams, and Biblical scholars. Theologians and laymen alike have been given the task of pondering His ineffable mysteries, deciding for themselves what to do as a matter of faith. His decision to manifest on the material plane was motivated by the deep sense of shock, outrage, and sorrow He felt over the Sept. 11 violence carried out in His name, and over its dire potential ramifications around the globe.

Attack On America Icon

"I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important," said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. "I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one-syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get?"

"But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,'" God continued. "It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.'"

Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an.

"To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay?" God said. "So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it—My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal bullshit. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall."

God praised the overwhelming majority of His Muslim followers as "wonderful, pious people," calling the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks rare exceptions.

"This whole medieval concept of the jihad, or holy war, had all but vanished from the Muslim world in, like, the 10th century, and with good reason," God said. "There's no such thing as a holy war, only unholy ones. The vast majority of Muslims in this world reject the murderous actions of these radical extremists, just like the vast majority of Christians in America are pissed off over those two bigots on The 700 Club."

Continued God, "Read the book: 'Allah is kind, Allah is beautiful, Allah is merciful.' It goes on and on that way, page after page. But, no, some assholes have to come along and revive this stupid holy-war crap just to further their own hateful agenda. So now, everybody thinks Muslims are all murderous barbarians. Thanks, Taliban: 1,000 years of pan-Islamic cultural progress down the drain."

God stressed that His remarks were not directed exclusively at Islamic extremists, but rather at anyone whose ideological zealotry overrides his or her ability to comprehend the core message of all world religions.

"I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time," God said. "The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline, right-wing, Meir Kahane-loving Israeli nationalists, man. And the Christians? You people believe in a Messiah who says, 'Turn the other cheek,' but you've been killing everybody you can get your hands on since the Crusades."

Growing increasingly wrathful, God continued: "Can't you people see? What are you, morons? There are a ton of different religious traditions out there, and different cultures worship Me in different ways. But the basic message is always the same: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Shintoism... every religious belief system under the sun, they all say you're supposed to love your neighbors, folks! It's not that hard a concept to grasp."

"Why would you think I'd want anything else? Humans don't need religion or God as an excuse to kill each other—you've been doing that without any help from Me since you were freaking apes!" God said. "The whole point of believing in God is to have a higher standard of behavior. How obvious can you get?"

"I'm talking to all of you, here!" continued God, His voice rising to a shout. "Do you hear Me? I don't want you to kill anybody. I'm against it, across the board. How many times do I have to say it? Don't kill each other anymore—ever! I'm [censored] serious!"

Upon completing His outburst, God fell silent, standing quietly at the podium for several moments. Then, witnesses reported, God's shoulders began to shake, and He wept.

web page (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28151)

DickLeonard
05-09-2006, 05:37 AM
Snakebytexx I didn't know my thinking is God like but here is another thought. This country was founded by people escaping religious persecution and now we're starting over with the persecution. God gave the Commandments to be followed not to be put into laws.

Everyone has the right to life,liberty and the pursuit of Happiness as long as you follow my rules was not in that sentence.####

Drop1
05-09-2006, 11:00 AM
I would never vote for a candidate that opposed abortion,stem cell study,favored prayer in school,or could not define exactly what womens'rights are,something I think most women can't do. Imho,out of the whole womens' movement,women got squat. They still get paid less,the rights to their bodies is up for debate. I wonder if after fathering the third child,men had to offer themselves up for steralization,how long that would be debated,ha ha a nano second.

SpiderMan
05-09-2006, 11:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> I wonder if after fathering the third child,men had to offer themselves up for steralization,how long that would be debated,ha ha a nano second. <hr /></blockquote>

Fine, but then let's also give the man the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy. To avoid giving him "control" of the woman's body, we could just rule that if he requests an abortion and she disagrees, then he is relieved of all future social, legal, and financial responsibility concerning the unwanted offspring. Fair's fair, after all.

SpiderMan

Gayle in MD
05-09-2006, 05:01 PM
Hey Dick,
Did I ever tell you that I love you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Love,
Gayle

Gayle in MD
05-09-2006, 05:38 PM
How about if men just stop spewing sperm in places where they shouldn't? You argument reminds me of the illegal aliens, demanding rights, in an arena where they have none!
You want your cake and eat it too. You want to be able to go to bed with a woman you have no committment to, impregnate her, then dictate to her what she can do about it. What colossal nerve, and total irresponsibility!

Gayle in Md.

Drop1
05-09-2006, 05:57 PM
If the man was having the baby that would be all right with me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Now to a different approach,and that is only allow women to vote on the abortion issue.

Gayle in MD
05-09-2006, 06:08 PM
I agree Drop. However, the women's movement, IMO, did a lot for women. It gave them the courage to leave abusive husbands, to fight for jurisdiction over their own bodies, which they won, for now, atleast, and for some, to believe that they atleast had a right to expect equal pay.

When I saw the illegals marching and demanding their rights in our country, I couldn't help thinking how long it took for women to win the right to vote in this country.

As you know, my main gripe with organized religion, although there are many, is that it is the basis for discrimination and oppression of women, by men. It is the cornerstone of misogyny, and many other forms of hatred, such as homophobia. It has caused many many wars, genocides, and the rape and slavery of many people, both men and women. No wonder the first qualification for belief in organized religion, is to relinquish independent thought.

If the religious right isn't stopped, they will undo all the progress for human rights issues. As the Republican neocon movement progresses, so does the death rate from war, and the loss of human rights.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
05-09-2006, 06:25 PM
Lester,
If only that were true. Unfortunately, they represent the Corporations who contributed the most toward getting them into office, most of the time. That's why the United States has not done anything about our dependence on oil. Our representatives are corrupt, and on the take. Our only hope is campaign reform, public financed campaigns, and even if we had that, we'd still have to outlaw ANY money contributions for campaigns, and keep a close watch on bribes. But this will never happen unless we have a huge uprising in this country. Americans would have to demand a change. With big corporate money running this country, and it sure is with Bush in office, it would take the emergence of a truly great leader, and the determination of the common man, the middle class, and the poor and down trodden, well,.... seems we have plenty of those....

Gayle in Md.

SpiderMan
05-10-2006, 09:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> How about if men just stop spewing sperm in places where they shouldn't? You argument reminds me of the illegal aliens, demanding rights, in an arena where they have none!
You want your cake and eat it too. You want to be able to go to bed with a woman you have no committment to, impregnate her, then dictate to her what she can do about it. What colossal nerve, and total irresponsibility!

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Well my last post was just a troll, but I was shocked at the vicious response. And you are trapped by your own argument.

So you still believe reproductive responsibility (or irresponsibility) is solely the man's domain, and the poor dumb woman, just a receptacle for spewed sperm, only wakes up to exercise her after-the-fact "right to choose"? Double standard? You want all the exclusive "rights" to decide life or death for an unborn infant, but believe the responsibility is always someone else's. I'd call that wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Or maybe a bad case of repressed anger at men in general /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SpiderMan

Gayle in MD
05-10-2006, 11:50 AM
I knew what you were doing. I overlooked your first slam at women, about convenience killing, out of respect for Mike, who asked that this not be turned into an abortion flame between posters.

I don't think unwanted pregnancys are solely the responsibility of men, or women, and frankly, that has nothing to do with the discussion, unless someone trys to bring it down to an level which is insulting to women, which is exactly what you did.

You know what I believe. I believe that no man has a right to judge, or dictate what a woman can do with her body. You included. If an unwanted pregnancy occurs, the decision of what to do about it should, and does, remain completely with the woman. If a man ends up paying child support, which, BTW, a great many don't, even when the courts instruct them that they must, and he doesn't like it, then he should either use protection, or get a vasectomy. He loses his rights in the matter the moment after his orgasm, since possession is nine tenths of the law, so you had better keep your sperm to yourself, unless ofcourse, you want to take a chance on results over which you have absolutely no control.

Gayle in Md....knows misogyny when she hears it.

pooltchr
05-10-2006, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I believe that no man has a right to judge, or dictate what a woman can do with her body. You included. If an unwanted pregnancy occurs, the decision of what to do about it should, and does, remain completely with the woman. <hr /></blockquote>

You can't have authority without having responsibility...the two go hand-in-hand. The decision to have sex was a mutual decision. Now you want to give the authority to decide how to handle a pregnency completely to the woman. The man has no say in the decision...but if she decides to have the baby, the man is responsible (financially). He has the responsibility without any authority, and the woman has the authority, but doesn't have to accept the responsibility. That is the flaw in your stand on this issue. If the woman chooses to have a baby against the man's wishes, she should assume full responsibility for the decision. If she doesn't want that responsibility, then she shouldn't have the authority to make the decision on her own.
Steve

Gayle in MD
05-11-2006, 12:18 PM
I don't agree. If two people have sex, and there is an accidental pregnancy, even if a woman decides to have the baby, and the man is expected to help support the child, since he also was involved in the carelessness, the woman still pays the far greatest price, as she is the one raising the child, with her time and devotion and sacrifice. The same is true if a woman decides to have an abortion, and I believe that the vast majority who make that decision, do not make it lightly, nor without paying a price, emotionally, and psysically, far beyond any price that a man ever pays.

I am offended by anyone who calls abortion "Convenience Killing" as Spiderman did, and did so, as he said, trolling for an argument. Such a statement is devoid of any compassion or empathy for women who find themselves in such a situation, and is further, misogynistic, and ignorant, to say the least.

No woman wants to have an abortion. It is a sad, gut wrenching decision that only she can make, because only she experiences the physical and emotional, total and complete, irreversable and far reaching changes to her life, both in her body, and her soul. Whatever monetary price a man might pay to bring a life into this world, pales greatly in comparison to a woman's. Frankly, once I read, some time back, that Marty, as a young man, thought of a fetus as something no more important than a mole on his a$$, it was quite clear to me that any reasonable discussion about abortion with a person who EVER thought THAT way, would be like trying to reason with someone who could NEVER catch up maturity wise, since I can't imagine anyone, even a child, with so little empathy.

Single, and married men have a choice, and a much more complete and carefree choice than women ever do, as regards being involved in an unwanted pregnancy, since there is no form of birth control, other than surgery, which is one hundred percent safe. His choice is to stop screwing women he isn't married to, or get a vasectomy. Any man who would discuss this issue as though unwanted pregnancy is some cruel joke, some unfair circumstance, designed to get into his wallet against his will, cetainly does not represent to me, atleast, an adult without hateful emotions toward women in general, and without a mature grasp on the subject.

Your view of the matter..... ..."If the woman chooses to have a baby against the man's wishes, she should assume full responsibility for the decision. If she doesn't want that responsibility, then she shouldn't have the authority to make the decision on her own." Is as absurd and misogynistic as Marty's, IMO, as it relieves the man completely from any responsibility, for a mistake that he took part in, while also taking away all of the woman's choices about her own life and body, since she is the only one in the scenario who is pregnant. A typical view of men lacking in compassion and maturity as regards the emotional and physical quandry which ONLY a woman can ever find herself facing. Any man who finds himself angry over having to contribute something so trite as money, in order for a woman to bring an unplanned child into this world, tells us all a great deal about his values, his ability to take his own share of responsibility for the circumstance in which he finds himself, and his inability to view life in general beyond his petty little self, from his self centered little perch.


Gayle in Md.

SpiderMan
05-11-2006, 01:54 PM
Thank you for the acknowledgement that the pregnancy is a JOINT responsibility (or irresponsibility if that is the case). It's not just some man "spewing sperm where he shouldn't".

My other point, which I did not harp on because of someone's desire to not make this an abortion thread, is that it is not JUST the woman's body at stake. It is the woman's body and the child's body.

I can understand splitting hairs and triage when the woman's life, or even long-term health, is at stake, but you seem to forget that this procedure has a 100% mortality rate for the child. That's why I call it "convenience killing" in some cases, and yes I do know what I am talking about.

The fact that I was, when younger and much dumber, a willing contributor to such a killing is something that I can never forget. It is a good thing that I am an atheist, otherwise I'd be damned as well.

SpiderMan

pooltchr
05-11-2006, 07:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Single, and married men have a choice, and a much more complete and carefree choice than women ever do,
<hr /></blockquote>

Single and married women have the same choice as single and married men. (Remember women's lib? Well, you got it! Women have the same responsibility as men.) All have the same choicees...have sex and expect the possible consequences...or don't have sex, and avoid the possible consequences. They make the decision together to have sex, then whatever decision they make as far as dealing with the results should be made together. The woman had just as much right and responsibility in having or not having sex in the first place as the man did. If she chooses to make a decision on her own, she should accept full responsibility for that decision. If the couple agrees on a decision, fine. But you are taking away any ability for the man to have any say in the situation, but still holding him responsible.
Sorry, Gayle, but I just can't buy into that one.
(by the way, I am not pro abortion personally, but I don't feel I have the right to dictate how others behave)
Steve

DickLeonard
05-12-2006, 05:09 AM
Gayle you have many times and everytime you do it it makes Eg8r blood boil. You know the feeling is mutual. I hope Orlando Florida gets it needed rain so Ed is not out fighting brush fires.####

Gayle in MD
05-12-2006, 08:21 AM
It is not a child, it is a fetus, without a brain, or a fully developed heart. Unfortunately, the extremist pro lifers out there have led the public to believe that most of the abortions happen after a fetus is fully developed, this is of course a myth. I am completely against partial birth abortions.

I could never have an abortion, the only way I could do such a thing would be if I were going to die and leave other young children motherless, however, I still know that only a woman should have the right to make such a decision about what she does with her own body, which should always come first and foremost, her own best interest, and her personal determination about whether she considers herself fit to be a mother, or emotionally strong enough to live her life knowing that her child is out there somewhere, and she will never know that child. The Mother is already a viable, living human being, and the decision should be completely hers, and hers alone.

As for your previous experience, there is really no way for you to determine how things might have progressed for either of you had you handled the situation differently. It could have worked out extremely well, but on the other hand, the result might have been three lives ruined instead of one thimblefull of cells discardedl. Regardless, I find the use of any word other than the word fetus, in such a conversation, unnecessarily dramatic and misleading. According to that view, the thousands of eggs which are aborted daily through the use of the birth control pills are murders. the billions and billions of sperm cells flushed down the toilet every minute, are murders. IOW, it is a personal decision, and comes from ones personal views and circumstances. I see no right for others who are not personally involved to presume any authority over the matter. If, on the other hand, a man is so caught up emotionally in the matter of his own growing cells, inside a woman, which are half his, and being without control over them, one would think he certainly would know himself well enough to get himself a vasectomy....it only takes five minutes to do that.

"Take what you want, and pay for it, said God"

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
05-12-2006, 08:24 AM
My dear friend, you mean the world to me...

Love,
Gayle

Gayle in MD
05-12-2006, 08:34 AM
Well Steve, when men begin to experience the same results from accidental pregnancies as women do, perhaps I will see the subject in a different view. At the present, however, within three to five weeks, a woman is spending half her time in the bathroom, urinating, vomiting, swollen, nauseated, and with a raging hormonal civil war going on in her body, while the man, on the other hand, is still going about his day to day life untouched by any inconvenience. When you guys learn to REALLY take half the responsibility, I'll be more than happy to give you some rights. Until then, your opinions and presumed "Rights" are a moot point, as far as I am concerned. Your choice is to not put yourself in the situation in the first place. Once you do, your rights are gone when your sperm is gone.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
05-12-2006, 10:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Your choice is to not put yourself in the situation in the first place. Once you do, your rights are gone when your sperm is gone.
<font color="red"> And a woman's choice is to not put herself in the situation in the first place. Once she does, her defense is gone as soon as she spreads her legs. It is no different for a woman than it is for a man. </font color>

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
05-13-2006, 04:53 AM
STEVE WRITES....as soon as she spreads her legs.

If this isn't typical chauvinistic language, I don't know what is.

You're discussion shows no class, compassion or understanding for the differences between women and men, and you are obviously not familiar with the statistical information on what generally happens after an unwanted pregnancy is discovered. For example, the most frequent cause of death in such circumstances, is murder, of the woman involved, by the man involved, in order to protect his money.

In marriage, statistically, mothers who work, work three times as many hours a day as fathers, do the vast majority of household duties, and childcare, laundry, shopping, cooking, and school responsibilities.

As long as a fetus, grows inside only a woman's body, only a woman can or should have any say so at all regarding the decision of abortion. Most often, unwanted pregnancies are terminated because the men involved do not want any responsibility for bringing the fetus to term, not the women, who BTW, are discriminated against financially in our society, and make only 63 cents on a dollar, for doing the same job that men perform.

I'd be willing to bet that the abortion rate would drop drastically if the men involved immediately offered the financial and emotional investment required to turn the event from a disaster, to a shared goal of bringing a new life into the world, each responsible egually for that life.

Frankly, your interpretations on the subject, and Spiderman's, are among the most disgusting, immature, and uninformed that I have ever come accross. I would be willing to bet that when he learned that this woman, or girl, was pregnant, his take of the subject was void of any responsible offers, or compassion. Now that years later, he can't live with his own failure to meet the challenge required, he insults all women when he refers to abortion as convenience killing. That to me is absolutely disgusting, and also the words of a chauvinist. I know there are decent men in this world, men who understand a woman's heart, and her circumstances, and factor those issues into their thinking as regards women, and their decision to have an abortion, and obviously, neither of you have that ability. No surprise to me at all.
Steve Writes....
And a woman's choice is to not put herself in the situation in the first place. Once she does, her defense is gone as soon as she spreads her legs. It is no different for a woman than it is for a man.
No doubt, the MOST ignorant statement I have ever read on this forum to date!
I suggest you take a class in biology.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
05-13-2006, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Once you do, your rights are gone when your sperm is gone.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Your comment is ok, but mine isn't?????????????
Steve

pooltchr
05-13-2006, 09:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> As long as a fetus, grows inside only a woman's body, only a woman can or should have any say so at all regarding the decision of abortion. <font color="red"> I don't have a problem with that. But if both parties involved (Yes, it still takes two people) don't agree, if the woman is the one to make the choice, she needs to take full responsibility for the decision </font color> Most often, unwanted pregnancies are terminated because the men involved do not want any responsibility for bringing the fetus to term, not the women, <font color="red"> Where do your statistics come from? I think many intelligent women understand the potential problems with becoming a single mother. And, as you continue to argue, the ultimate choice belongs to the woman. </font color> who BTW, are discriminated against financially in our society, and make only 63 cents on a dollar, for doing the same job that men perform. <font color="red"> Thank you for bringing up your feminist agenda...it adds so much to this discussion. </font color>

I'd be willing to bet that the abortion rate would drop drastically if the men involved immediately offered the financial and emotional investment required to turn the event from a disaster, to a shared goal of bringing a new life into the world, each responsible egually for that life. <font color="red"> In an ideal world...but that isn't where we live. You have to be a little bit practical here. </font color>

Frankly, your interpretations on the subject, and Spiderman's, are among the most disgusting, immature, and uninformed that I have ever come accross. <font color="red"> Why, because they are made with logic and not emotion? </font color> I would be willing to bet that when he learned that this woman, or girl, was pregnant, his take of the subject was void of any responsible offers, or compassion. <font color="red"> That's a pretty bold statement to make about someone when you don't have any idea of the facts. Pretty quick jump to judgement IMO </font color> Now that years later, he can't live with his own failure to meet the challenge required, he insults all women when he refers to abortion as convenience killing. <font color="red"> Just because it's not the politically correct terminology, doesn't mean it isn't an accurate description of the subject </font color> That to me is absolutely disgusting, and also the words of a chauvinist. <font color="red"> Yes, it's disgusting...as is washing an unborn baby down the drain. </font color> I know there are decent men in this world, men who understand a woman's heart, and her circumstances, and factor those issues into their thinking as regards women, and their decision to have an abortion, and obviously, neither of you have that ability. No surprise to me at all. <font color="red"> You don't have a clue </font color>
Steve Writes....
And a woman's choice is to not put herself in the situation in the first place. Once she does, her defense is gone as soon as she spreads her legs. It is no different for a woman than it is for a man.
No doubt, the MOST ignorant statement I have ever read on this forum to date!
<font color="red"> Oh, I'm sure I have read more ignorant statements...after all...I even read your posts! </font color>
I suggest you take a class in biology.
<font color="red"> Been there, done that, passed the class </font color>

Gayle in Md.





<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
05-14-2006, 05:08 AM
Logic? AH HA HA HA...so it's logical, to degrade and judge a woman for having an abortion, if the man involved doesn't want her to have it, and also logical that she not expect him to extend any financial support if she can't abide the thought of abortion, for a mistake that he took part in? In YOUR perfect, world, obviously, all the POWER must remain with the MAN. THAT'S LOGICAL? NO... that isn't logical, that's chauvinistic.

The use of the word sperm isn't anything like your disgusting degrading comment.... When a woman spreads her legs... You're repulsive...

You can drop the slings and arrows regarding women's lib, and feminism, you can't degrade those important issues to which evolved, autonomous women have devoted themselves, any more than you can cast your partisan mud at the liberal side of politics. Neither you, OR George Bush's bull dogs has yet the right to define all our words, or instruct all our actions. I'm very proud to be a feminist, and my husband, and ALL of my male friends, and I have many, are proud and respectful of my devotion to women's rights. Issues which seem to be outrageous and unintelligible ONLY to the kind of men who are so backward thinking that they still don't like seeing women achieve the rights they deserve in our society, or have total control over their own bodies.

Gayle in Md. "Been there, done that" PAHLEZE....don't try to be kool by using ten year old redundant slang. We already know how many decades behind you are in your thinking.

Basically, you talk out of both side of your mouth on the issues of abortion, neither of which are sensitive to a women's rights, and both of which give the man a free pass, she can't have the abortion unless he agrees, and if she doesn't have the abortion, he is off scott free. In both scenarios, he gets to have all the power, again, typical view of a male chauvinist misogynist man.

Oh, BTW, I intend to print up this entire thread, and hand out copies at all the billiard events this year to women, and their male significant others.... I dare say, women, wouldn't want to be paying a man with your chauvinistic views for pool lessons~!

pooltchr
05-14-2006, 06:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Logic? AH HA HA HA...so it's logical, to degrade and judge a woman for having an abortion, if the man involved doesn't want her to have it, <font color="red">When did I ever say that? A woman is free to choose...I just don't personally agree. </font color> and also logical that she not expect him to extend any financial support if she can't abide the thought of abortion, for a mistake that he took part in? <font color="red"> If they agreed to have sex, they should agree on how to deal with it. If they can't agree, the woman has the final decision...but she doesn't have the right to force the man to participate. One who doesn't, is pretty much scum in my opinion, but still, should not be forced into a situation because of the woman's personal decision. When she makes the decision on her own, she accepts the responsibility on her own. </font color> In YOUR perfect, world, obviously, all the POWER must remain with the MAN. THAT'S LOGICAL? NO... <font color="red"> Read what I just wrote. It's the Woman who has all the control, not the man. </font color> that isn't logical, that's chauvinistic.

The use of the word sperm isn't anything like your disgusting degrading comment.... When a woman spreads her legs... You're repulsive... <font color="red"> If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. (oops, sorry, there's another one of those old sayings) </font color>

You can drop the slings and arrows regarding women's lib, and feminism, you can't degrade those important issues to which evolved, autonomous women have devoted themselves, any more than you can cast your partisan mud at the liberal side of politics. <font color="red"> No slings and arrows...just pointing out that if you want women to be treated equally, it needs to be 100% and not just when it's convenient for the women. </font color> Neither you, OR George Bush's bull dogs has yet the right to define all our words, or instruct all our actions. <font color="red"> How the heck did you manage to bring GW into this conversation? </font color> I'm very proud to be a feminist, and my husband, and ALL of my male friends, and I have many, are proud and respectful of my devotion to women's rights. <font color="red"> Good for you. But make sure you are fighting for TOTAL equality...not just convenience equality. </font color> Issues which seem to be outrageous and unintelligible ONLY to the kind of men who are so backward thinking that they still don't like seeing women achieve the rights they deserve in our society, or have total control over their own bodies. <font color="red"> I enjoy seeing everyone achieve their goals </font color>

Gayle in Md. "Been there, done that" PAHLEZE....don't try to be kool by using ten year old redundant slang. We already know how many decades behind you are in your thinking. <font color="red"> Get real. If you can't respond to the intent of the statement without attacking the specific words used, I assume you don't have an intelligent response. </font color>

Basically, you talk out of both side of your mouth on the issues of abortion, <font color="red"> If a woman wants to have an abortion, that's fine. I personally think it's wrong, but that's just me. The thought police will have to come and get me on that one. We aren't talking about abortion...we are talking about how two people who choose to have sex deal with the consequences. It's a separate issue. If she chooses against abortion and has a baby as her own personal choice, she must accept responsibility for that decision. </font color> neither of which are sensitive to a women's rights, <font color="red"> How is that not sensitive to a woman's rights? I already said the decision, if not mutually agreed upon, should rest with the woman. </font color> and both of which give the man a free pass, she can't have the abortion unless he agrees, and if she doesn't have the abortion, he is off scott free. In both scenarios, he gets to have all the power, again, typical view of a male chauvinist misogynist man. <font color="red"> </font color> I just love it when you use big words with your name calling! <font color="red"> </font color>

Oh, BTW, I intend to print up this entire thread, and hand out copies at all the billiard events this year to women, and their male significant others.... I dare say, women, wouldn't want to be paying a man with your chauvinistic views for pool lessons~! <font color="red"> That is a very adult, mature response on your part. You, who always wants everything to be so fair about everything, can't accept my political beliefs, so you think that somehow is relevent to my ability to teach. And to threaten to use that as a way to sabatage the way I make a living is childish, ignorant, vindictive, and shows me just what kind of person you really are. For your information, I have worked with several female players, some of whom post on this forum, and have had very successful sessions, and positive feedback. Ask CC what she thought about our lessons. If you print this, I certainly hope you include this post as well. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
05-14-2006, 06:36 AM
The Premise of your position is that if a woman does not do what the man wants her to do, the man is off the hook financially for a life that he was atleast half responsible for creating. IOW you are against abortion rights, and also against a child's right to recieve financial support from his/her father.

If a woman's values do not allow for her to have an abortion, and she has the baby, that does not negate the fact that the man was half responsible for the accidental birth, and therefore half responsible for the financial assistance that a single mother would need to raise the child, given the fact that she is working for only two thirds the money a man can make for doing the same job. If you don't think your views are anti-woman's rights, and anti-children's rights, you're just not being honest with yourself.

Any man who would use the phrase you used has already exposed himself as a misogynist, and a chauvinist, period.

You can't dictate to me what I print off an internet forum, nor can you dictate to women what they can do with their bodies, nor do you live in a society which thinks that a man can go around impregnating women and not be held half responsible financially for their offsprings needs.

I think if women are going to give you their hard earned money for pool lessons, they have a right to know that you believe that when a woman spreads her legs, as you so intelligently put it, she loses her rights. And they also have a right to know that the famous POOL SCHOOL, employs men like you!

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
05-14-2006, 06:59 AM
Once again, you have proved that you only read and comprehend what you want to. You have clearly missed the entire point of what I have said, or you just don't give a damn. Either way, I really don't care. You have shown clearly that you aren't interested in anything other than what you believe, and are a vindictive, bitter woman.
Enjoy your life, however you see fit.
Steve

Gayle in MD
05-14-2006, 07:19 AM
And a woman's choice is to not put herself in the situation in the first place. Once she does, her defense is gone as soon as she spreads her legs. It is no different for a woman than it is for a man.

Here is your own statement....I only intend to add you name,

Before you decide to get lessons from POOLSCHOOL, here are the words of one of their teachers, Steve, from North Carolina.

If you think your statements are appropriate, how am I being vindictive? I am looking out for women like myself, who would prefer not to give our money to men who think as you do, and insult women, and their efforts to avoid legal domination from men, and men's refusal to support their own children. The same kind of men who find the word feminist, to be a description for a radical, male hating, woman, which does not deccribem, at all, the feminists whom I know.

I am not vindictive, nor am I bitter, just repulsed by YOUR hateful. disrespectful statements toward women.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
05-14-2006, 08:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> And a woman's choice is to not put herself in the situation in the first place. Once she does, her defense is gone as soon as she spreads her legs. It is no different for a woman than it is for a man.

Here is your own statement....I only intend to add you name,

Before you decide to get lessons from POOLSCHOOL, here are the words of one of their teachers, Steve, from North Carolina.

If you think your statements are appropriate, how am I being vindictive? I am looking out for women like myself, who would prefer not to give our money to men who think as you do, and insult women, and their efforts to avoid legal domination from men, and men's refusal to support their own children. The same kind of men who find the word feminist, to be a description for a radical, male hating, woman, which does not deccribem, at all, the feminists whom I know.

I am not vindictive, nor am I bitter, just repulsed by YOUR hateful. disrespectful statements toward women.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Typical tactics. Take one statement out of context, add your own additions to it and treat it as the truth. Do what you want to do, Gayle. You are the one who has to live with yourself. No wonder so many on here ignore you. Add me to that list.

SPetty
05-14-2006, 08:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> For your information, I have worked with several female players, some of whom post on this forum, and have had very successful sessions, and positive feedback. Ask CC what she thought about our lessons. <hr /></blockquote>Who is CC?

Gayle in MD
05-15-2006, 05:06 AM
It seems to me that your own tactics deserve some attention on your part. You make statements, and then deny having made them, even when I have cut and pasted them.

Again...THIS is what YOU said...
And a woman's choice is to not put herself in the situation in the first place. Once she does, her defense is gone as soon as she spreads her legs. It is no different for a woman than it is for a man.


and also...

No wonder so many on here ignore you. Add me to that list.

GLORY HALLELUJAH !!! I've been requesting that you stop reading my posts forever, since your responses are usually insulting, and it is YOU who can't abide others having a different opinion from YOURS. I can only HOPE that you keep your word!