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tdurden87
05-04-2006, 06:24 PM
Anybody know of a drill I can use to make my stroke smoother/straighter? I've tried the one with a plastic bottle but I don't think its helping as much as something else would.

Cueless Joey
05-04-2006, 06:35 PM
Hire an instructor and have him/her correct the flaws in your stroke or stance.
If you want a drill, a spot shot would really tell you if your stroke is straight or off.

DickLeonard
05-05-2006, 05:34 AM
Tdurden here is the best solution to a straight stroke. Hold the cue in your baby and ring finger and let your other fingers dangle. This will get your wrist and arm in a straight line so your stroke will be straighter longer. I would practice stroking down the dividing line on the dining room table. This will show you when your stoke veers off.

I would end up with my thumb on top of the cue at the end of the delivery. I felt this guide kept the cue straight till the end.

Read Golf articles on putting strokes and the path they take. How golf grips create hook,slice,straight ball paths the same science relates to the cue path.####

cushioncrawler
05-05-2006, 07:52 AM
From a 12' by 6' english billiardz perspective.
Drill No 1 -- make a mark on the end cushion, and a mark near the other end the same distance from the side cushion -- hit the qball up that line -- the qball should go straight up and back along the line.
Drill No 2 -- place the qball and object ball on the diagonal between 2 corner pockets -- pot the ball -- and follow throo into the pocket.
Drill No 3 -- in Drill No 1, place the object ball on the mark on the end cushion -- the qball hits the OB full -- and reboundz straight back -- once in a lifetime, the qball and OB meet again near the middle of the table.

"Smooth" i like -- but why would anyone want to have a straight stroke???? -- a straight stroke would be no good unless u had a straight eye. I have tested the line-up and stroke of a few top playerz, and a few ordinary playerz, the worst line-up and stroke (by far) belonged to the reigning ozzy billiardz and snooker champ.

pooltchr
05-05-2006, 12:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> why would anyone want to have a straight stroke???? -- a straight stroke would be no good unless u had a straight eye. <hr /></blockquote>

Why would anyone NOT want a straight stroke??????????
Steve

Bumps
05-05-2006, 12:58 PM
"Smooth" i like -- but why would anyone want to have a straight stroke???? -- a straight stroke would be no good unless u had a straight eye.<hr /></blockquote>

You're kidding, right? If not, can you explain that, 'cause I'd sure like to hear this one.

randyg
05-05-2006, 01:56 PM
Me too!

heater451
05-05-2006, 03:54 PM
Some may argue the benefits of this, but you can try the "sawing" type stroke, where you stroke a bit like sawing a piece of wood. Your hand will describe a figure-8 from the side, with it's top/bottom inline with the stroke. The tip of your cue will rise and fall, as it moves toward and back.

If you stroke with a cue ball, it's easier to see the tip move up and down in a vertical line.

The idea is to keep the tip moving in a vertical plane, to help move away from any side-to-side motion, and it may help with any wrist-roll/twist.

If you are in-game, you can do this as your first warm-up strokes on the cue ball, then drop into your regular, non-up-and-down stroke, before making the final hit. If you feel that you lose the control in the transition to the "straight" stroke, you can take a few regular strokes, and then at the end of the set, move the tip over the cue ball, keeping it on the aim line. Pause there, and then go back into the routine as much as you require.

Of course, this is to practice a base-line stroke, with the goal being to end with a center-hit delivery stroke. Then branch out to ending with follow or draw. IMO, it's harder to transition to sidespin doing this, but after awhile, you shouldn't need to do it, although it is always there to get the "feel" right, and then return to straight-stroking.

Good Luck!



==========================

tdurden87
05-05-2006, 05:46 PM
Another good drill I've found is this shot. It requires precision and if you're off, you'll know why immediately.

START(
%A_0Z9%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Po9Z9%Wa1[0%Xn7Z7%YD7[0%Z]6Z8
)END

cushioncrawler
05-05-2006, 06:43 PM
Hi Steve (&amp; Bumps &amp; Randy)
Firstly, even as i write, Cornerman iz probably posting to remind me that Mark (tdurden87) said that he was looking for a smooth"er" and a straight"er" stroke.

And i, and u (Steve), mention "wanting" a straight stroke -- which is in fact ok i guess.

But, luckily, most of us never will achieve a straight stroke. Allmost everyone hits the qball offcenter -- ie we get a bit of unintentional squirt and side and swerve -- ie we need a non-straight stroke -- ie 3 (or 4 or 5) wrongz make a right.

I found that i woz spending far too much time on (straighter) drills -- when one looks for a straighter stroke one eventually hits a wall -- due to one'z eyesight (az mentioned in threads).

In the end, i reckon that we profit by looking for a more consistent stroke (az mentioned in threads i think).

I remember that, only once, i did find a (young) player who aimed throo the center of the qball, and aimed and aligned throo the center of the object ball. Yes, he had a straight stroke -- if he didnt he would have missed. Perhaps hiz eyesight was perfect koz he started very young -- hiz dad owned a large billiard hall -- and he had pro lessonz allso. He gave the game (billiardz and snooker) away.

Anyhow, i guess that much of this allso dependz on what we mean by "straight stroke" -- iz it the alignment and motion of the cue -- or iz it the trajectory of the qball -- or iz it the end rezult.

pooltchr
05-05-2006, 07:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> luckily, most of us never will achieve a straight stroke. Allmost everyone hits the qball offcenter -- ie we get a bit of unintentional squirt and side and swerve -- ie we need a non-straight stroke -- ie 3 (or 4 or 5) wrongz make a right. <font color="red"> Having personally spent some time with them, I can tell you that RandyG, Cane, Scott Lee, myself, and I am sure many others have a straight stroke, and the majority of the time, we can make contact with the cue ball exactly where we are intending. Spend a few days with Randy and you will be doing it too. </font color>

I found that i woz spending far too much time on (straighter) drills -- when one looks for a straighter stroke one eventually hits a wall <font color="red"> The wall you hit is when your stroke is straight. Once it's straight, it can't get "straighter". </font color> -- due to one'z eyesight (az mentioned in threads).

In the end, i reckon that we profit by looking for a more consistent stroke <font color="red"> What is more consistant than a straight stroke every time you step up to the table?? </font color> (az mentioned in threads i think).

I remember that, only once, i did find a (young) player who aimed throo the center of the qball, and aimed and aligned throo the center of the object ball. <font color="red"> How you aim has nothing to do with how you stroke...they are two separate activities </font color> Yes, he had a straight stroke -- if he didnt he would have missed. <font color="red"> Exactly! A straight stroke greatly improves the odds of getting the cue ball to go exactly where you intend. </font color> Perhaps hiz eyesight was perfect koz he started very young -- hiz dad owned a large billiard hall -- and he had pro lessonz allso. He gave the game (billiardz and snooker) away.

Anyhow, i guess that much of this allso dependz on what we mean by "straight stroke" -- iz it the alignment and motion of the cue -- or iz it the trajectory of the qball -- or iz it the end rezult. <font color="red"> You are just confusing the issue...kinda like asking what "is" is. A straight stroke has nothing to do with the trajectory of a ball, is has to do with the linier movement of the cue stick. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Scott Lee
05-06-2006, 05:12 PM
I'm with you, Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott

DickLeonard
05-07-2006, 05:33 AM
Pooltchr There is an anomaly to a straight stroke that is Reyes and Bustamonti strokes they are all over the place until they hit the cueball. How they play as well as they do is a mystery to me.####

pooltchr
05-07-2006, 07:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Pooltchr There is an anomaly to a straight stroke that is Reyes and Bustamonti strokes they are all over the place until they hit the cueball. How they play as well as they do is a mystery to me.#### <hr /></blockquote>
Yes, but I wouldn't even begin to try and teach what they do to any student of the game. If any of us could do what they do, we probably wouldn't be sitting around writing on the internet forums. They are exceptional, and the exceptions to the rules.
Steve

BigRigTom
05-07-2006, 08:18 AM
My 2 cents worth...
I think getting a straight stroke is a great way to improving your game. It makes all the other parts of the game easier to learn.
I see a lot of advise on how to get the straight stroke but for me it was the " Stroke Trainer (http://www.billiardsgamestroketrainer.com/Tom.html) ". I know it is sort of expensive and not everyone agrees that it is worth the cost but I personally think it is a VERY reasonable price for the results it produces. Of course you have to use it to get any value out of it and I just know it worked for me. I still go back to it every once in a while just to sort of tune up and re-evaluate.

Cueless Joey
05-07-2006, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Pooltchr There is an anomaly to a straight stroke that is Reyes and Bustamante strokes they are all over the place until they hit the cueball. How they play as well as they do is a mystery to me.#### <hr /></blockquote>
That's not really true.
Efren no longer has the bicycle stroke.
Even when he did, before the final stroke, he paused dead on the ball then delivered.
Also, Efren's follow-thru is so consistent whether he's shooting soft or hard.

ceebee
05-07-2006, 12:19 PM
I'm convinced that addressing the "Shot Line" correctly is the most important ingredient for successful play.

A STRAIGHT STROKE is like rifle fire, the target can only be hit with correct alignment.

I have finally developed myself a muscle memory builder, for STRAIGHT STROKING. I also have to re-learn correct aiming of my Body &amp; Cue. I have succeeded in that arena before, using Bert Kinister's "MIGHTY X" theory.

There are REAL reasons why some players are physically natural &amp; some players have to be physically developed. This difference requires disciplined training. After a player can make balls (stroke) &amp; easily attain position (speed), the mind has to be developed for greater success (instruction, books, video &amp; experience).

RonMont
05-07-2006, 03:59 PM
If your body is not aligned correctly your stroke will not be straight. Get down over the cue as though you were on the final stroke but grip the cue near the start of the wrap so it is "balanced" off the table. The cue should be free to swing. Notice where it points and adjust your feet until the cue lines up correctly with the shot. This is your "proper" stance. In this position the joints of the stroking arm are "in line" and the final stroke should feel like your arm is just falling forword with almost no force from the upper arm. Each time you drop over the shot your feet should be in the new position.
Standing tall or low is not as important as getting the stroking arm "in line".
I prefer to stand close to my normal shooting position because I can hit the cueball more accuratly. I am about 6 or 8" higher than normal when breaking.
Best, Ron.

Alfie
05-07-2006, 07:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> I have finally developed myself a muscle memory builder, for STRAIGHT STROKING. <hr /></blockquote>What is your muscle memory builder for straight stroking?
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> I also have to re-learn correct aiming of my Body &amp; Cue. I have succeeded in that arena before, using Bert Kinister's "MIGHTY X" theory.<hr /></blockquote>I thought the Mighty X was just a draw shot speed control drill. What is the mighty X theory?

TIA

Alfie
05-07-2006, 07:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RonMont:</font><hr> Get down over the cue as though you were on the final stroke but grip the cue near the start of the wrap... <hr /></blockquote>Is the start of the wrap by the butt or the forearm?
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RonMont:</font><hr> ... so it is "balanced" off the table. <hr /></blockquote>What does this mean?
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RonMont:</font><hr> Each time you drop over the shot your feet should be in the new position.<hr /></blockquote>What do you mean by "the new position."

TIA

ceebee
05-08-2006, 08:03 AM
Alfie, the "Mighty X" theory, as I see it, is this.

There is only one stroke that matters, that is the DELIVERY STROKE. I saw the "MIGHTY X" as a drill to test the trueness of your stroke &amp; correctness of body alignment. If you can draw the cue ball, half the length of the table into a pocket or follow with the cue ball, half the length of the table into a pocket, on the line through the center of caddy-corner pockets, repeatedly, you are doing great..

RonMont
05-08-2006, 03:44 PM
1.The forearm.
2. The idea is to hold the cue so it is free to swing above the table. Normally, it will swing to the left (your left). You can get the same result by standing back from the table holding your arms loosly by your side. If you look down at your right hand you should see the wrist turned somewhat inward. Do it again this time with a cue.
The cue will drift (turn) to the left. When it stops move your feet to turn your body to the right until the cue points at the rack spot. The position your feet will be in is your "new position". Be carful not to turn your body or move your arm side to side. Turn as a whole moving just the feet. When you get down over a shot your right arm should feel more free and the tip should not swing off center from the shot.
Whenever you get down over a shot your feet should always be in that "new position".

SPetty
05-09-2006, 02:24 PM
This is an interesting concept - not one I think I've heard before. Did you figure this out yourself?

Fran Crimi
05-09-2006, 03:23 PM
I'm stumped. I've never heard anything like this before either.

Fran

randyg
05-09-2006, 03:33 PM
I don't understand what he said....randyg

RonMont
05-09-2006, 04:32 PM
No, I got it from one of Bert Kinister's tapes. I think it may have been the"Mighty X" tape

Fran Crimi
05-10-2006, 05:01 AM
I could be wrong but I think he's saying your natural arm swing runs slightly across your body rather than straight back and forth. Makes me think of apes.

Fran

pooltchr
05-10-2006, 09:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> I could be wrong but I think he's saying your natural arm swing runs slightly across your body rather than straight back and forth. Makes me think of apes.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>
That may be true if you use a piston stroke. If you use a pendulum stroke, the natural swing is going to be in which ever direction you have aligned your arm to, since the elbow only allows movement in a straight line.
Steve

Eric.
05-10-2006, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> I could be wrong but I think he's saying your natural arm swing runs slightly across your body rather than straight back and forth. Makes me think of apes.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

"Getcher hands off of me you d@mn, dirty ape!!"


Eric

RonMont
05-10-2006, 11:14 AM
Just a follow up, I looked at some of the Kinister tapes I have and the procedure I described came from Tape #11 "Advanced Fundamentals". Sorry for the error.

RonMont
05-10-2006, 11:17 AM
In a previous post you indicated this information was not familiar to you. I am disappointed that your first response would be one of sarcasm.

Fran Crimi
05-10-2006, 11:24 AM
You're wrong. We came from apes, right? I wasn't being sarcastic. I'm always up for learning new things.

I'm disappointed in your jumping the gun and accusing me of sarcasm. The worst you should accuse me of is trying to understand what the heck you're talking about here.


Fran

Cueless Joey
05-10-2006, 01:46 PM
I need an hour with you on the table. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
tap, tap, tap

SPetty
05-10-2006, 06:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote RonMont:</font><hr> Just a follow up, I looked at some of the Kinister tapes I have and the procedure I described came from Tape #11 "Advanced Fundamentals". <hr /></blockquote>Thanks, RonMont. I appreciate the followup.

pooltchr
05-10-2006, 07:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> I need an hour with you on the table. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
tap, tap, tap <hr /></blockquote>

Come to NC, and the first hour is on the house! If you want more after that, we'll talk! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve

Qtec
05-11-2006, 12:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If your body is not aligned correctly your stroke will not be straight. <hr /></blockquote>

It might be straight but just going in the wrong direction. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Qtec

Qtec
05-11-2006, 01:29 AM
I think he is talking about the alignment of a player's natural stroke ,with the line of the shot.

Qtec

DickLeonard
05-11-2006, 05:29 AM
RonMont I think the correct grip and arm swing is the same as a A Living Gunslinger. Most poolplayers with elbows outside of the wrist would be a dead gunslinger.####

DickLeonard
05-11-2006, 05:40 AM
RonMont the arm swing and the arm alignment is the same as a Living Gunslinger. Gunlsingers with elbows outside their wrist would be what I would call dead gunslingers.

Practice drawing an imaginery gun and pointing your index finger at the target. You will see your gun will point at the target. ####

ceebee
05-11-2006, 09:11 AM
QUOTE "If you use a pendulum stroke, the natural swing is going to be in which ever direction you have aligned your arm to, since the elbow only allows movement in a straight line. Steve"

Most folks assume this to be true &amp; to a large degree it is correct. The forearm will rotate radially in one plane around the elbow joint hinge. But where is the rotational centroid of that hinge joint? Everyone that plays Professional Pool does not have their upper arm pointed back down the Shot Line. That says to me, the hinge joint centroid in their arm is slighty different to the next players physical build up.

I believe the hinge joint of the elbow, in everyone of us, might not be 100% straight ahead, like we might think, because we are all different. We have grown up doing different activities and we do physically different jobs in everyday life, which can certainly effect the way one's body might work and/or move. And because there are tendons, ligaments &amp; muscles controlling that movement, which may be used to or trained to do something contrary to stroking a Cue straight down the Shot Line.

Thats the theory motivation behind my new way of thinking.

don_southwick
05-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Hi Fran! Lpng time no see!

I have watched the Kinister tape Ron is talking about and I think I can explain it. If you stand and let your arms hang naturally, you forearms end up in the pronated position, with the backs of your hands facing forwards. You actually need to use muscle tension to achieve what I would call a neutral position with the backs of your hands to the sides.

Bert's idea is to hold your cue at the balance point and relax your arm to find that angle of pronation. If you start with the cue pointing forward, as you relax your arm you will find that the cue crosses your body. Once the forearm finds it's natural position, don't move it. Instead, turn your body(feet) until the cue is on the shot line. Step into the shot with your front foot and voila!

It actually works pretty well in that it seemed to relieve a little tension in your stroking arm, and it automatically provides clearance of the hip. The drawback for me is that sometimes I turned a little too far and ended up with my head cocked at a slight angle. Also, it is a lot easier to do from the side rail as opposed to stretching from the center of the short rail.

I think the idea does have some merit, although you can achieve the same thing by laying the stick on the table and aligning your body around it.

Hope that helps.

CoconutMikey
05-11-2006, 11:02 AM
I'm surprised none of you mentioned the obvious...line up the OB near a pocket and pocket the ball hitting a stop shot. The CB should stop dead at the point of contact. For follow, the CB should follow the OB into the pocket. For draw, the CB should return to the tip of your cue. If you're not stroking straight, the CB will go right or left on you.

Fran Crimi
05-11-2006, 05:37 PM
Hi Don,

Yes, your description helps a lot! Okay, the ape thing wasn't all that far off... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I see what Burt means and it's a very interesting idea. I have to give him kudos for that one. Very innovative.

Fran

Alfie
05-11-2006, 05:42 PM
[don_southwick gives a good description of BK's advice on cue alignment]

So ... The position of the palm while in a relaxed standing position determines how open or closed the stance should be. The more pronate the palm, the more closed the stance. The more neutral the palm, the more open the stance. Correctamundo?

Now if only the rest of my musculoskeletal self is compatible with my palm angle.

DickLeonard
05-12-2006, 06:12 AM
Alfie as I have tried to point out many times the Pool grip and the Golf create the same swing arcs.####

Righty
05-13-2006, 09:19 PM
Ron is on the right track but he left a couple of important things out.

Let me explain what he means and also add in some other important factors. Your elbow is a fixed-hinge. There is a natural straight path for your forearm to swing back and forth.

So why is it so hard for many people to have a dead straight stroke, if their elbow is on a fixed hinge?

For one thing, the shoulder is a ball hinge, which can move in pretty much any direction. Alot of people have shoulder-elbow movement involved in their strokes.

Why? There are a couple of factors. The first and most important factor is having your bridge hand accurately placed in line with your stroking arm's natural straight path.

If your bridge hand is to the left or the right of your stroking arm's straight path, your stroke will be crooked to the degree that your bridge hand is off.

This is where the most common form of misalignment compensation comes in, which sideways movement of the elbow via the shoulder, and twisting the wrist. Many players have these motions naturally built into their strokes, and actually can achieve straight strokes. The problem is it takes alot of unecessary movement of body parts, which makes it extremely hard to be consistent.

The second most important factor, is consistently having your stroking arm's elbow at the same distance from your body every time you are down on the shot. You have to find this spot and remember it. If you change it around, your stroke will never be consistent.

The third most important factor is where your sighting is lined up along the cue. Alot of players shoot with their heads cocked to the side because their elbow is jutting out too far to the side, and they can't look directly over the cue. As a result, they are aiming out of the corner of their eyes instead of the center.

Try focusing on an object out of the corner of your eyes, it's more difficult than focusing if you are staring directly straight at it. I know this is probably difficult to understand, but it's the best way I can explain it.

Righty
05-13-2006, 09:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> QUOTE "If you use a pendulum stroke, the natural swing is going to be in which ever direction you have aligned your arm to, since the elbow only allows movement in a straight line. Steve"

Most folks assume this to be true &amp; to a large degree it is correct. The forearm will rotate radially in one plane around the elbow joint hinge. But where is the rotational centroid of that hinge joint? Everyone that plays Professional Pool does not have their upper arm pointed back down the Shot Line. That says to me, the hinge joint centroid in their arm is slighty different to the next players physical build up.

I believe the hinge joint of the elbow, in everyone of us, might not be 100% straight ahead, like we might think, because we are all different. We have grown up doing different activities and we do physically different jobs in everyday life, which can certainly effect the way one's body might work and/or move. And because there are tendons, ligaments &amp; muscles controlling that movement, which may be used to or trained to do something contrary to stroking a Cue straight down the Shot Line.

Thats the theory motivation behind my new way of thinking.
<hr /></blockquote>

The forearm only deviates from a straight path when the arm is almost completely outstretched. No pool players have long enough backstrokes for this to become a factor, and I don't think there are any cues long enough to allow this.

ceebee
05-14-2006, 06:51 AM
I apologize to anyone that did not understand my post. I did not mention stroke length. I was referring to the stroke's radial direction - i.e. ... the plane). Every hinge has a pin (if you will), which the hinge rotates on. If the centroid of the pin is not normal (90 DEGREES) to the shot line... you will not have a true stroke. Aligning your body to the normal stroke direction (the hinge pin) is the key... JMHO Please feel free to do what you want.

Here is another fact; if the pendelum of the stroke does not swing absolutely vertical, the stroke will cross the Shot Line.

pooltchr
05-14-2006, 07:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> Here is another fact; if the pendelum of the stroke does not swing absolutely vertical, the stroke will cross the Shot Line. <hr /></blockquote>

Very good point! This is why proper alignment is required in addition to proper stroke mechanics.
Steve

Righty
05-15-2006, 01:17 AM
I agree. I also think that lining up properly is much harder than aiming. Most people think that aim is their problem, but it really isnt. If you can send the cueball to exactly where you intend every time, you can learn where to aim very quickly. Alignment is key!

cushioncrawler
05-15-2006, 04:32 AM
Hmmmm -- mightbe -- but i think that az we churn out more and more College-Cookie-Cutter playerz, then obviously we will end up with more and more of such playerz winning this or that -- which seemz to "proov the point" -- but iz in reality just another circular arguement.

What if, whenever we kum across a poor style, we make the style even worse -- we might end up with more Willie Hoppe'z -- or Walter Lindrum'z -- or Ray Reardon'z -- or Jim Furyk's.

pooltchr
05-15-2006, 06:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Hmmmm -- mightbe -- but i think that az we churn out more and more College-Cookie-Cutter playerz, then obviously we will end up with more and more of such playerz winning this or that -- which seemz to "proov the point" -- but iz in reality just another circular arguement.

What if, whenever we kum across a poor style, we make the style even worse -- we might end up with more Willie Hoppe'z -- or Walter Lindrum'z -- or Ray Reardon'z -- or Jim Furyk's. <hr /></blockquote>


/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

tdurden87
05-15-2006, 11:48 AM
So any actual drills?

pooltchr
05-15-2006, 12:07 PM
put the cue ball on the spot. step into your shot and shoot it...no warm up strokes, no back stroke, no prep at all. See if you can shoot to the end diamond without having to make ANY adjustments at all. If you can, you are probably on track with your alignment
Steve

wolfdancer
05-15-2006, 12:15 PM
Steve, thanks for that tip....I kind of go with my first alignment....and now I can find out if that is correct....

tdurden87
05-15-2006, 01:46 PM
Alright thanks. Any comments/suggestions/additions to these drills? I'm trying to get a good stroke to improve my game.

1. Line 10 balls across the table and practice stop, draw, and follow shots at varying distances from the object ball. (I saw this one on a Instructional DVD by Megan Minerich)

START(
%Aa4Y3%Ba3W0%Ca3T7%Da3R1%Ea5O5%Fa5M2%Ga4J9%Ha5H7%I a5F3%Ja5D5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pg0Y1%Wc4Y5%Xe6Y1%Y E9Z8%Z`1Y5
%[E6Z2%\`1V9%]D8[1%^_9T6
)END


2. Take 5 balls on each long rail and try to shoot them into the corner pocket with the cue ball 2 diamonds away.

START(
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%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pm8Z8%Uc5Z9%Vl3Z9%_ F1D1%`V5D2
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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html

heater451
05-15-2006, 04:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Righty:</font><hr> . . .Your elbow is a fixed-hinge. There is a natural straight path for your forearm to swing back and forth.

So why is it so hard for many people to have a dead straight stroke, if their elbow is on a fixed hinge?

For one thing, the shoulder is a ball hinge, which can move in pretty much any direction. Alot of people have shoulder-elbow movement involved in their strokes. <hr /></blockquote>I've noticed this before, but your post made it stand out to me that people always seem to leave out the (bad) effects of the wrist. Or, more correctly, the twist allowed by the range of movement of the radius and ulna. These two forearm bones allow one to "roll" the hand/wrist over, or under, which throw the stroke off-line, and impart spin on the cueball--which, in the case of a "straight stroke" is definitely undesired. There is also probably some squirt induced when this happens. Having a good grip (or lack of "grip", actually) should help reduce this---a light grip reducing the chances of roll caused by holding the cue like a handlebar.

Another impediment, basically covered by the posts about correct stance, is that one may actually stand on the stroke line, and compensate by using the shoulder joint to bring the hand around the body. I'm only mentioning this here, as it is something that may not be noticed by those who do it.



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cushioncrawler
05-15-2006, 04:31 PM
I think that a "repeatable" stroke/alignment iz the main key allso.

I doubt that any of the top 32 snooker playerz has a relaxed style -- they all have both feet pointing allmost straight ahead -- this stresses their spine (u should see the S shape that some adopt), but it (i think) gives them a more repeatable alignment for shoulder elbow palm eye etc -- i say "think" koz they dont ever say -- it helped me, but i went back to my old style anyhow (its a free country) -- and i bet that u would too.

Anyhow, they (32) contradict the old masters, and the old books. Its now a bit like finding that all of the top 32 ranked golfers have an alignment like Lee Trevino -- hiz feet aim over 30dg further left (toe to toe line here) than other pro'z -- Lee said that this took the righthand rough out of play. The snooker playerz might have read hiz book.

dr_dave
05-16-2006, 08:13 AM
Righty,

Excellent post!

Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Righty:</font><hr> Ron is on the right track but he left a couple of important things out.

Let me explain what he means and also add in some other important factors. Your elbow is a fixed-hinge. There is a natural straight path for your forearm to swing back and forth.

So why is it so hard for many people to have a dead straight stroke, if their elbow is on a fixed hinge?

For one thing, the shoulder is a ball hinge, which can move in pretty much any direction. Alot of people have shoulder-elbow movement involved in their strokes.

Why? There are a couple of factors. The first and most important factor is having your bridge hand accurately placed in line with your stroking arm's natural straight path.

If your bridge hand is to the left or the right of your stroking arm's straight path, your stroke will be crooked to the degree that your bridge hand is off.

This is where the most common form of misalignment compensation comes in, which sideways movement of the elbow via the shoulder, and twisting the wrist. Many players have these motions naturally built into their strokes, and actually can achieve straight strokes. The problem is it takes alot of unecessary movement of body parts, which makes it extremely hard to be consistent.

The second most important factor, is consistently having your stroking arm's elbow at the same distance from your body every time you are down on the shot. You have to find this spot and remember it. If you change it around, your stroke will never be consistent.

The third most important factor is where your sighting is lined up along the cue. Alot of players shoot with their heads cocked to the side because their elbow is jutting out too far to the side, and they can't look directly over the cue. As a result, they are aiming out of the corner of their eyes instead of the center.

Try focusing on an object out of the corner of your eyes, it's more difficult than focusing if you are staring directly straight at it. I know this is probably difficult to understand, but it's the best way I can explain it. <hr /></blockquote>

chas1022
05-22-2006, 07:12 PM
I have been using Bert Kinisters Mighty X. It has helped me out alot just in the first couple of minutes. I found something that I was just doing by accident and corrected it and I saw an improvement right away. I also use some basic straight shots just stopping the cue in place. I see how my cue is pointing if it goes to the left, right,or stays straight.