PDA

View Full Version : awesome article about Efren (the gambler) in BD



dr_dave
05-23-2006, 01:03 PM
I assume many of you saw the "Filipino Idol" article about Efren in the June '06 issue of BD. If you didn't, you should find somebody with a copy. The article does a great job of telling the whole story about one of the greatest legends and icons of our sport. The article is also full of lots of great photos that help paint the entire Efren picture.

Now for my potentially controversial commentary: I only wish that he weren't so addicted to gambling. IMHO, he would be an even greater role model (e.g., to the Filipino kids in the large photo) if this weren't the case. It is a shame that many top players in our sport need to resort to so much gambling to make a decent living. Hopefully, the IPT will establish itself for the long term and help change this situation.

What do you guys think?

Dave

Tom_In_Cincy
05-23-2006, 01:09 PM
If you don't subscribe to BD there is a web version of the article on the main page of BD's website.
http://www.billiardsdigest.com/current_issue/jun_06/

Tom_In_Cincy
05-23-2006, 01:27 PM
We should have lived in the 1900-1950 years of billiards, when tournaments were attended by men and women dressed in tux's and admission prices were $5/day and the tournaments lasted for weeks.

Only the best Hotels in Chicago and New York hosted these events.

Since the 50s, pocket billiards dwindled in prestige for various social reasons, one being the presence of so many gambling opportunities. Blue Laws were created and directed at gambling establishments (including pool halls), liquor, open/close times, locations restrictions(like the blue light districs for strip clubs nowadays)

The Church preached against the evils of the neon-signs that lit nite clubs that had card and pool tables set up and ready to go to 'fleece' the patrons of their hard earned money.

In all of this, the allure of gambling stories started and great road players criss-crossed the USA trying for the easy pickens by hustlin' local players for pocket change and gas money until they could find the big 'score' and head back home with a bank roll the size of a grapefruit.

Even the kids today are attracted to the pool hall from the TV and Film 'stereotyping' of pool players. The two greatest pool flims are about gambling and hustlin', and both were directly responsible for resurgences in the 60s and 80s of the pool hall attendance.

Gambling is a very real part of pool, the stories are as much a part of the alure as being able to draw the cue ball 3 feet.

Even new rail bangers will wager a drink/pool time or even a couple of dollars on a match to keep the excitement going during the experience of being at the pool hall.

When there are two known gamblers matchin' up and playing for a lot more than a few dollars, the rail bulges with players and rail bangers alike.

It is an attraction and a part of the game as much as green cloth.

And, in the Phillipines, there isn't the NFL, MLB, NHL, Tennis, PGA, NBA and NASCAR to provide Role models that the USA has. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

wolfdancer
05-23-2006, 01:36 PM
For over ten years, I went to both the Dec and the Jun tournaments in Reno...at the Reno Sands. If they weren't playing pool, many of the Philippino players would be at the Craps table. There was a printed story some years back, where Mr. Parica won a tournament and placed second in the other, in Las Vegas...He made over $30k, but by the time he got to Reno was broke.
I know of a few top players, that might win several thousand playing pool, and the next day, be either at the race track, or the card room. Pool is addictive, but can't compare with the gambling addiction.....the highs and the lows, and since the two are entwined, it would have to be a life style change to give up gambling....earning more money playing pool, just means you have more to gamble with. Someone mentioned once..."they think they are playing pool, but they really are just gambling"
Been there myself....if you go to a hospital, many of the patient's rooms have a plaque "Donated by Dr....." I thought there should be one on some craps table in Reno, with my name on it.....

dr_dave
05-23-2006, 01:42 PM
Thank you for your post. Nice summary!

I also like a "friendly wager" every once in a while; however, I still think it is unfortunate that many top players need to gamble to make a decent living.

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> We should have lived in the 1900-1950 years of billiards, when tournaments were attended by men and women dressed in tux's and admission prices were $5/day and the tournaments lasted for weeks.

Only the best Hotels in Chicago and New York hosted these events.

Since the 50s, pocket billiards dwindled in prestige for various social reasons, one being the presence of so many gambling opportunities. Blue Laws were created and directed at gambling establishments (including pool halls), liquor, open/close times, locations restrictions(like the blue light districs for strip clubs nowadays)

The Church preached against the evils of the neon-signs that lit nite clubs that had card and pool tables set up and ready to go to 'fleece' the patrons of their hard earned money.

In all of this, the allure of gambling stories started and great road players criss-crossed the USA trying for the easy pickens by hustlin' local players for pocket change and gas money until they could find the big 'score' and head back home with a bank roll the size of a grapefruit.

Even the kids today are attracted to the pool hall from the TV and Film 'stereotyping' of pool players. The two greatest pool flims are about gambling and hustlin', and both were directly responsible for resurgences in the 60s and 80s of the pool hall attendance.

Gambling is a very real part of pool, the stories are as much a part of the alure as being able to draw the cue ball 3 feet.

Even new rail bangers will wager a drink/pool time or even a couple of dollars on a match to keep the excitement going during the experience of being at the pool hall.

When there are two known gamblers matchin' up and playing for a lot more than a few dollars, the rail bulges with players and rail bangers alike.

It is an attraction and a part of the game as much as green cloth.

And, in the Phillipines, there isn't the NFL, MLB, NHL, Tennis, PGA, NBA and NASCAR to provide Role models that the USA has. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

dr_dave
05-23-2006, 01:47 PM
Good post. That's the sense I got about Efren after reading the article. His gambling focus (in pool and other activities) is probably not the best of life skills, but it has apparently helped him create intensity and excellence at the pool table.

Regards,
Dave

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> For over ten years, I went to both the Dec and the Jun tournaments in Reno...at the Reno Sands. If they weren't playing pool, many of the Philippino players would be at the Craps table. There was a printed story some years back, where Mr. Parica won a tournament and placed second in the other, in Las Vegas...He made over $30k, but by the time he got to Reno was broke.
I know of a few top players, that might win several thousand playing pool, and the next day, be either at the race track, or the card room. Pool is addictive, but can't compare with the gambling addiction.....the highs and the lows, and since the two are entwined, it would have to be a life style change to give up gambling....earning more money playing pool, just means you have more to gamble with. Someone mentioned once..."they think they are playing pool, but they really are just gambling"
Been there myself....if you go to a hospital, many of the patient's rooms have a plaque "Donated by Dr....." I thought there should be one on some craps table in Reno, with my name on it..... <hr /></blockquote>

Bob_Jewett
05-23-2006, 01:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> ...
I also like a "friendly wager" every once in a while; however, I still think it is unfortunate that many top players need to gamble to make a decent living.
... <hr /></blockquote>
If a road player actually gambles, he'll soon go broke. His job is to book winners, not to find action.

dr_dave
05-23-2006, 01:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> ...
I also like a "friendly wager" every once in a while; however, I still think it is unfortunate that many top players need to gamble to make a decent living.
... <hr /></blockquote>
If a road player actually gambles, he'll soon go broke. His job is to book winners, not to find action. <hr /></blockquote>
Ok, now I understand. If you win, it is called "booking winners." If there is a chance you might lose, it is called "finding action." Still sounds like "gambling" to me.

Dave

Sid_Vicious
05-23-2006, 02:37 PM
Odds aren't even close when a RP surveys his layout, and besides as the old saying goes, "When you lose you sometimes win." As long as you don't get cut-up or robbed in the parking lot...the aloof roadies with patience, a wary eye and a lot of cash, can most of the time consider gambling is not what he's doing at all. It's a job, but you gotta be very street wise and move around a lot. jm2c...sid~!~~speaking as an observer

Cornerman
05-23-2006, 02:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>
Now for my potentially controversial commentary: I only wish that he weren't so addicted to gambling. IMHO, he would be an even greater role model (e.g., to the Filipino kids in the large photo) if this weren't the case. It is a shame that many top players in our sport need to resort to so much gambling to make a decent living. Hopefully, the IPT will establish itself for the long term and help change this situation.

What do you guys think?

Dave <hr /></blockquote>I think that you don't realize that the "addiction to gambling" has less to do with pool and more to do with the Filipino culture and upbringing. Do a google search on pool gambling Filipinos. Efren today doesn't need to gamble to make a living.

Gambling has been a part of Filipino culture (not all of it) to a higher degree than any other American territory (past or present).

Fred

PoolSharkAllen
05-23-2006, 03:31 PM
Nice post, Tom. It reminds me of a book I read recently on a hustler by the name of Danny McGoorty. It's a sad life he had, always being on the lookout for gambling money to put food on the table. Not only was he addicted to gambling but he was an alcoholic too.

dr_dave
05-23-2006, 04:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>
Now for my potentially controversial commentary: I only wish that he weren't so addicted to gambling. IMHO, he would be an even greater role model (e.g., to the Filipino kids in the large photo) if this weren't the case. It is a shame that many top players in our sport need to resort to so much gambling to make a decent living. Hopefully, the IPT will establish itself for the long term and help change this situation.

What do you guys think?

Dave <hr /></blockquote>I think that you don't realize that the "addiction to gambling" has less to do with pool and more to do with the Filipino culture and upbringing. Do a google search on pool gambling Filipinos. Efren today doesn't need to gamble to make a living.

Gambling has been a part of Filipino culture (not all of it) to a higher degree than any other American territory (past or present).

Fred <hr /></blockquote>
Fred,

Your points are well taken. In fact, the article does a fairly good job of giving the whole story (including your comments). That being said, gambling still seems to be a big part of the lives of many great pool players. Maybe the reputation of our sport (hustling, gambling, school drop-outs, etc.) isn't so far off. I don't mean to sound judgmental, I just hope the sport grows to enjoy a more respectful reputation in the future. Maybe the IPT prize funds and TV coverage will help. Money and marketing can do wonders (e.g., as it has with the pro bowling tour).

Regards,
Dave

Cueless Joey
05-23-2006, 04:39 PM
Efren does gamble a lot.
I think he gambles more for leisure than anything else.
He'd play dollar tong-its or pusoy just to pass time.
He's not quite the gambler Jose Parica is.

Bumps
05-23-2006, 05:22 PM
To touch on the road player stuff, it's always been a hustler's thing to make a game he can't lose. It's not about gambling. As long as there are people willing to bet the money, there will be road players, etc. who will be only too glad to take it.

pigbrain
05-23-2006, 05:49 PM
i agree top player shouldnt gamble.
there isnt an easy way for me to get any billiardsdigest.
so i can't see the good articles.
it is upsetting...

dr_dave
05-23-2006, 08:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pigbrain:</font><hr> i agree top player shouldnt gamble.
there isnt an easy way for me to get any billiardsdigest.
so i can't see the good articles.
it is upsetting... <hr /></blockquote>
As Tom_In_Cincy pointed out, the Efren article can be found online (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/current_issue/jun_06/). Also, all of my instructional articles can be found here (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html), and all of Bob Jewett's articles can be found here (http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/BD_articles.html).

Happy reading,
Dr. Dave

PoolSharkAllen
05-24-2006, 12:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PoolSharkAllen:</font><hr> Nice post, Tom. It reminds me of a book I read recently on a hustler by the name of Danny McGoorty. It's a sad life he had, always being on the lookout for gambling money to put food on the table. Not only was he addicted to gambling but he was an alcoholic too. <hr /></blockquote>

By the way, Danny's book also mentioned that his idol and role model was Ralph "Babe" Cranfield, whom he admired as one of the greatest players to play the game of straight pool. However, Cranfield was also an alcoholic and would oftentimes play at straight pool tournaments while drunk.

In that vein, I certainly agree with Dr. Dave in wishing that Efren Reyes could be a better role model for the Philipino kids.

Rich R.
05-24-2006, 03:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Now for my potentially controversial commentary: I only wish that he weren't so addicted to gambling. IMHO, he would be an even greater role model (e.g., to the Filipino kids in the large photo) if this weren't the case. It is a shame that many top players in our sport need to resort to so much gambling to make a decent living. Hopefully, the IPT will establish itself for the long term and help change this situation.

What do you guys think?<hr /></blockquote>
What do I think? I think you have a lot of nerve criticizing a man, who comes from a very poor family in a very poor country, for not being a better roll model.

It' easy to sit back in your comfortable chair, with your multiple college degrees, in a fairly rich country, and say that someone like Efren Reyes should be a roll model. I'm sure, when he was growing up and learning to play pool, and gamble, being a roll model was the last thing on his list of priorities. I would guess that the top of his priority list included items like, eating and sleeping under a roof and providing for his family.

I, for one, think that Reyes is a good roll model, as if he cares what any of us think. With limited education, he found a way to take good care of his family. He doesn't sell drugs, rob or kill people. He gambles, like a very large percentage of the world population. So what. He has done the best that he can do, under the circumstances, and he provides a good living for his family. If all of the children in the photo grow up and take as good care of their families, as Efren Reyes, that will be a wonderful thing.

I would like to know what you would have done, if you grew up in the same situation as Efren Reyes?

I'm sure Reyes didn't ask you to make him a roll model, so I suggest that you not hang that title around his neck. JMHO.

Brian in VA
05-24-2006, 05:48 AM
Quote Rich R.
"What do I think? I think you have a lot of nerve criticizing a man, who comes from a very poor family in a very poor country, for not being a better roll model.

It' easy to sit back in your comfortable chair, with your multiple college degrees, in a fairly rich country, and say that someone like Efren Reyes should be a roll model. I'm sure, when he was growing up and learning to play pool, and gamble, being a roll model was the last thing on his list of priorities. I would guess that the top of his priority list included items like, eating and sleeping under a roof and providing for his family.

I, for one, think that Reyes is a good roll model, as if he cares what any of us think. With limited education, he found a way to take good care of his family. He doesn't sell drugs, rob or kill people. He gambles, like a very large percentage of the world population. So what. He has done the best that he can do, under the circumstances, and he provides a good living for his family. If all of the children in the photo grow up and take as good care of their families, as Efren Reyes, that will be a wonderful thing.

I would like to know what you would have done, if you grew up in the same situation as Efren Reyes?

I'm sure Reyes didn't ask you to make him a roll model, so I suggest that you not hang that title around his neck. JMHO".

Tap, Tap Rich! Although your words read a little harsher than they would if you were speaking aloud, they get the point across.

I would also add that gambling is a game of chance. I'm not sure that I believe that playing against another player for your own money is gambling. Those of you that know me, know I've changed my stance on this over the years due to this forum. Wagering on two other players playing a match? That's gambling because you have no control over the outcome.

Brian in VA

DickLeonard
05-24-2006, 06:32 AM
PoolSharkAllen. You have his Idol miss named he must have been Ralph Greenleaf. I have a picture of Ralph in his early twenties he looks like Tyrone Power and I have one in his later life and he looks like Bella Lagousie.

Our own Hal Houle traveled with Ralph in his later years. I think Ralph bequeathed him his aiming system.####

Rich R.
05-24-2006, 06:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brian in VA:</font><hr> Tap, Tap Rich! Although your words read a little harsher than they would if you were speaking aloud, they get the point across.<hr /></blockquote>
Thanks Brian, but, in this case, I meant for my words to be a little on the harsh side.
I found Dr. Dave's words to be very judgemental. Considering Efren, growing up in a very poor family, did not have the opportunities available to Dr. Dave, I don't believe Dr. Dave should determine that Efren should be a better roll model. All things considered, I think he is a very good roll model. As they say, don't criticize someone until "you have walked a mile in their shoes".

dr_dave
05-24-2006, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>What do I think? I think you have a lot of nerve criticizing a man, who comes from a very poor family in a very poor country, for not being a better roll model.

It' easy to sit back in your comfortable chair, with your multiple college degrees, in a fairly rich country, and say that someone like Efren Reyes should be a roll model. I'm sure, when he was growing up and learning to play pool, and gamble, being a roll model was the last thing on his list of priorities. I would guess that the top of his priority list included items like, eating and sleeping under a roof and providing for his family.

I, for one, think that Reyes is a good roll model, as if he cares what any of us think. With limited education, he found a way to take good care of his family. He doesn't sell drugs, rob or kill people. He gambles, like a very large percentage of the world population. So what. He has done the best that he can do, under the circumstances, and he provides a good living for his family. If all of the children in the photo grow up and take as good care of their families, as Efren Reyes, that will be a wonderful thing.

I would like to know what you would have done, if you grew up in the same situation as Efren Reyes?

I'm sure Reyes didn't ask you to make him a roll model, so I suggest that you not hang that title around his neck. JMHO. <hr /></blockquote>
First of all, I think Efren is awesome, and I have tremendous respect for what he has accomplished, especially given the environment in which he grew up.

Concerning his gambling, it is not just about putting food on the table for his family. Here's a quote from the article (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/current_issue/jun_06/):
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote from_the_article:</font><hr>Whether it be pool, chess, cards, mahjong or the cockfights, Efren Reyes is a man who is clearly happiest and most comfortable when he is strategizing, plotting and thinking about the next shot, the next move, the next card, the next tile, the next rooster, and, always, always with a bet on the line. That amazing mind, which has wowed and mystified pool fans around the world for several decades, has to constantly be fed a steady diet of "action." The action is his elixir, his mental stimulation, his lifeblood.

"You know Filipinos. We're born gamblers," the bearded man says as he eyes Efren's mahjong game. And Reyes, a gambler among gamblers, a peasant hero to a nation, is held in the highest esteem by his people as perhaps the greatest one of them all when the money's on the line.<hr /></blockquote>
I didn't men to judge Efren for his gambling. Also, maybe the article makes too big a deal about it. But as others have pointed out in this thread, a life of gambling isn't always rewarding and healthy.

Concerning being a role model, IMHO (from my "comfortable chair" and with my "multiple college degrees"), I don't think it is a choice. When you are as successful, famous, and idolized as Efren is, it is a responsibility. I guess that's one of the prices society makes you pay for being so blessed.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
05-24-2006, 06:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brian in VA:</font><hr> Tap, Tap Rich! Although your words read a little harsher than they would if you were speaking aloud, they get the point across.<hr /></blockquote>
Thanks Brian, but, in this case, I meant for my words to be a little on the harsh side.
I found Dr. Dave's words to be very judgemental. Considering Efren, growing up in a very poor family, did not have the opportunities available to Dr. Dave, I don't believe Dr. Dave should determine that Efren should be a better roll model. All things considered, I think he is a very good roll model. As they say, don't criticize someone until "you have walked a mile in their shoes".<hr /></blockquote>
I'm sorry if I came across as judgmental. That was not my intent. I agree with you 100% that it is wrong to criticize somebody that has made so much of their life, starting with so little. Again, I think Efren is awesome.

Dave

PoolSharkAllen
05-24-2006, 07:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> PoolSharkAllen. You have his Idol miss named he must have been Ralph Greenleaf. <hr /></blockquote>

Ooops! Thanks for catching that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rich R.
05-24-2006, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Concerning his gambling, it is not just about putting food on the table for his family. Here's a quote from the article:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote from_the_article:</font><hr>Whether it be pool, chess, cards, mahjong or the cockfights, Efren Reyes is a man who is clearly happiest and most comfortable when he is strategizing, plotting and thinking about the next shot, the next move, the next card, the next tile, the next rooster, and, always, always with a bet on the line. That amazing mind, which has wowed and mystified pool fans around the world for several decades, has to constantly be fed a steady diet of "action." The action is his elixir, his mental stimulation, his lifeblood.

"You know Filipinos. We're born gamblers," the bearded man says as he eyes Efren's mahjong game. And Reyes, a gambler among gamblers, a peasant hero to a nation, is held in the highest esteem by his people as perhaps the greatest one of them all when the money's on the line.<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Dr. Dave, at this point in his life, it may not be about putting food on the table, as you say, however, it was at one time.
I refer you to another quote from the article.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote from_the_article:</font><hr>They didn't have to work a job, then play pool. There were no jobs. From childhood, pool has always been their livelihood, their means of survival.
<hr /></blockquote>
I suspect that Efren knows no other way by which to make a living. When gambling, he is intense and excited, just as you may be when you are teaching physics. It is both what he knows best and what pays the bills.

Rich R.
05-24-2006, 08:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> I'm sorry if I came across as judgmental. That was not my intent. <hr /></blockquote>As we all know, but forget at times, it is difficult to read intent on the internet.
I apologize if I jumped the gun and came on a little strong in response to your post.

PoolSharkAllen
05-24-2006, 09:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> The action is his elixir, his mental stimulation, his lifeblood.[/b]

"You know Filipinos. We're born gamblers," the bearded man says as he eyes Efren's mahjong game. And Reyes, a gambler among gamblers, <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

I suspect that Efren knows no other way by which to make a living. When gambling, he is intense and excited, just as you may be when you are teaching physics. It is both what he knows best and what pays the bills. <hr /></blockquote>

Rich, That article in BD was revealing in that it not only exposed a side of Efren Reyes that I never knew about before, but it also revealed a "darker" side of life in the Philipines. According to the article, you have a whole country addicted to compulsive gambling, which certainly isn't the way to get out of poverty. In that sense, I suppose that Efren could be a role model for his country in setting an example by gambling less. Unfortunately, it appears that Efren is as addicted to gambling as everyone else is.

wolfdancer
05-24-2006, 09:28 AM
Rich, I think because of his status, Efran is a role model for the kids in his country.....and while Dr. Dave suggests it might be nice if he wasn't also a known gambler, as Fred pointed out, gambling is indigenous in the Philippines.It might be a good thing if gambling wasn't so prevalent there...since for every winner, there is also a loser. I didn't read into the post where DR. D was passing judgement.

Cueless Joey
05-24-2006, 09:42 AM
Btw, do you know what the most popular sport is in the Philippines?


















Cockfighting. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
It's the most popular "sport" there.
Then basketball then billiards.

Bob_Jewett
05-24-2006, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> ... If a road player actually gambles, he'll soon go broke. His job is to book winners, not to find action. <hr /></blockquote>
Let me give a couple of examples.

A friend of mine made his living in this area for several years by playing pool. He had a nice apartment in the Berkeley hills and could afford to take trips. In between the pool playing he graduated near the top of his class at Boalt Law School. He looked horrible at the table. Graceless. When he went to a bar or pool hall to play, he was not gambling, he was making a living. He also gave me one of the nastiest experiences I've ever had at pool (to prevent me from leaving with his money), and he was apparently involved in a double dump at the time he suspended his pool career for law school. His talent was not perfect pool -- he only played a little better than I did -- it was in judging the quality of his opposition and managing his games. It didn't hurt that he didn't look like he could play.

A pretty good player I met at an Air Force tournament in the 60's spent some time on the road with a player I'll call L. In the old days of road play (20 years before), he said that L and another player, T, would work it like this: L would go into a town and start with small games and eventually beat the top local player and then beat the top player giving him a great spot. In a couple of weeks, T would come into town, beat some people, and then the townsfolk would get the idea of backing L against T to get their money back. L would play pool better than they had ever seen before, but unfortunately for the townsfolk, T would play even better than that. I suppose this technique worked better in the days before every cellphone had a camera (and before L and T got their pictures in national magazines).

dr_dave
05-24-2006, 10:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> I'm sorry if I came across as judgmental. That was not my intent. <hr /></blockquote>As we all know, but forget at times, it is difficult to read intent on the internet.
I apologize if I jumped the gun and came on a little strong in response to your post.<hr /></blockquote>
Thank you. You are right about it being sometimes difficult to read true intent on the Internet, even with all of the silly emoticons. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Catch you later,
Dave