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ANGEBONES
05-28-2006, 07:42 PM
Is it ok to drop your elbow on your follow-thru? I know Johnny Archer does, as well as some other amazing players, however the pros do a lot of things we should sometimes not copy. I do it without even thinking about it, and was wondering if I should fix it or if it's OK. I've been worrying about it a lot lately and focusing on that and not the shot at hand has thrown my game of a little.

pooltchr
05-29-2006, 04:12 AM
learning to shoot without dropping your elbow is the easiest way to develop a consistant repeatable straight stroke. I was at one of the IPT qualifiers this weekend and I watched all the players. 8 out of 10 did NOT drop their elbow. All of them were very good players. I think if you learn to use the pendulum stroke, you may find it gives you significant improvement.
Steve

Billy_Bob
05-29-2006, 09:46 AM
Someone explained to me that the shoulder can move any which way, but the elbow moves only one direction like a hinge.

So if you can leave your upper arm fixed and up, then you are less likely to be moving your arm "any which way" while stroking.

And this is an instructor thing! Find the best instructor you can and have them watch your stroke.

The 1st step is learning what a good stroke is. You can watch this on instructional videos. I think the best is the "Foundation Series" videos at this site...
http://www.billiardsanctuary.com/welcome.htm

The 2nd step is having an expert diagnose *your* specific problems - tell you what you need to work on. Watch you.

Then the 3rd step is getting yourself to stroke properly. (I have trouble with this myself since I can't see myself! I think I'll put up mirrors in my pool room - seriously - years of bad habits are hard to break. I do have some excellent player friends who are kind enough to tell me what I am doing/not doing though.)

And personally I like the "Set, Pause, Finish, Freeze" form of instruction for this.

dr_dave
05-29-2006, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ANGEBONES:</font><hr> Is it ok to drop your elbow on your follow-thru? I know Johnny Archer does, as well as some other amazing players, however the pros do a lot of things we should sometimes not copy. I do it without even thinking about it, and was wondering if I should fix it or if it's OK. I've been worrying about it a lot lately and focusing on that and not the shot at hand has thrown my game of a little. <hr /></blockquote>

FYI, you can find lots of good advice, discussion, and debate about elbow drop and other stroke-related issues by clicking on the links under "stroke" in thread summary page posted here (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html).

Happy reading,
Dave

pooltchr
05-29-2006, 12:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> Someone explained to me that the shoulder can move any which way, but the elbow moves only one direction like a hinge.

So if you can leave your upper arm fixed and up, then you are less likely to be moving your arm "any which way" while stroking.

<hr /></blockquote>

This is exactly why the BCA instructors who teach SPF do teach the pendulum stroke. It is the easiest way to make sure your stroke is as straight as it can be.
Steve

Fran Crimi
05-29-2006, 01:14 PM
Hi Angebones,

There's no reason to fix what isn't broken unless you feel you have a problem. Lots of great players drop their elbows, and since you already do it naturally and you haven't indicated that you're having any specific problems, if I were you, I'd go with it and don't even think about it. An elbow drop isn't necessarily a problem that needs fixing. If you find yourself missing a lot, then take a look at your elbow drop as maybe a timing issue, but other than that I'd say go with what you do naturally.

Fran

Cueless Joey
05-29-2006, 01:47 PM
Here come the no-elbow drop police.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif
I watched three pros who have stroke I believe are perfect.
Buddy Hall, Davenport and Jose Parica.
They all drop their elbows about 3 inches max.
Not quite like the way Jim Rempe does it.
I think if it's a natural follow through, it doesn't hurt.
I don't think there is a need to drop the elbow when punching or drawing the ball ( soft to medium ) imo.
A good loose grip does the job.
My problem with the pendulum stroke is when I don't want to stab at the ball and want the cueball to follow at a tighter angle, I just don't get the result I want.
I have better success when I use the piston stroke when I want the cueball to follow.
It's really the only time I tend to drop the elbow a little. :-)

Fran Crimi
05-29-2006, 02:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Here come the no-elbow drop police.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

<font color="blue"> Yeeeeeeeeeikes! Hahaha </font color>

I watched three pros who have stroke I believe are perfect.
Buddy Hall, Davenport and Jose Parica.
They all drop their elbows about 3 inches max.
Not quite like the way Jim Rempe does it.
I think if it's a natural follow through, it doesn't hurt.
I don't think there is a need to drop the elbow when punching or drawing the ball ( soft to medium ) imo.

A good loose grip does the job.
<font color="blue">I think I know where you're going with this...a la Efren. I've played around with throwing the cue. It's good but a bit scary because you have to make sure you let go or you won't follow through. I think you know what I mean if you've tried it. Works great when you let go, though. </font color>


My problem with the pendulum stroke is when I don't want to stab at the ball and want the cueball to follow at a tighter angle, I just don't get the result I want.
I have better success when I use the piston stroke when I want the cueball to follow.
It's really the only time I tend to drop the elbow a little. :-) <font color="blue"> Yes, I like it a lot for top spin shots. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

cushioncrawler
05-29-2006, 05:54 PM
I thought that in the Piston Stroke the elbow drops during backswing and goes up during forwardswing -- then lastly drops a little if u have a large follow-thru.

On average, Pistonerz would take money off Pendulumerz, i reckon.

Cueless Joey
05-29-2006, 06:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> I thought that in the Piston Stroke the elbow drops during backswing and goes up during forwardswing -- then lastly drops a little if u have a large follow-thru.

On average, Pistonerz would take money off Pendulumerz, i reckon. <hr /></blockquote>
I'm trying to picture that and I can't. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
On Piston Stroke, you drop the elbow a little so the tip stays straight through the cb instead of dipping.

cushioncrawler
05-29-2006, 07:13 PM
Hi Joey -- Yes, i now see what u (and Fran) mean -- a pendulum backswing, followed by a pendulum forwardswing, with a piston follow-thru -- a pendulumiston. Yes -- i can see how Fran would say that this helps follow-thru action on the qball.

Regarding the full piston that i mentioned -- this particularly lends itself to players who hold the cue very near the end, ie who hold their fore-arm beyond vertical. The cue goes back and forward on a fixed line -- the cue angle duznt change at any time, including during the follow thru.

ryushen21
05-29-2006, 11:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr>
On average, Pistonerz would take money off Pendulumerz, i reckon. <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe we should have a tourney. i'll play for the pendulum team.

Alfie
05-29-2006, 11:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ryushen21:</font><hr>Maybe we should have a tourney. i'll play for the pendulum team. <hr /></blockquote>I'm with the cueball punchers. The rest of yas are in big trouble.

cushioncrawler
05-29-2006, 11:50 PM
My team will play the winners. I tried to join the Pistonerz, but they threw me out. I said that i slid the cue back and forward uzing a piston action -- but they pointed out that holding the cue "short", with the fore-arm inside vertical, and hence raising the elbow during the backswing, and then dropping the elbow during the forward-swing and follow-thru, was a mongrel version of the piston, and that i would have to form my own team.

Cueless Joey
05-30-2006, 12:46 AM
I cannot shoot this shot without dropping the elbow and a long soft follow.
START(
%Hg5Z9%II4Z8%PK4X8%Ur6[1%Vh4[1%We5Z9%XL4Y1%Ye7Y2%Zf3[2

)END
I'd like to see anyone shoot this w/out dropping the elbow.

cushioncrawler
05-30-2006, 01:59 AM
Yes -- a longish range screwy stun pot into the left-hand baulk corner pocket -- needing a fair bit of power.

Here, in English billiards, i would play one of the strangest shots in billiardsdom -- u hit the qball with right-hand-english, and run thru the 8ball for an in-off into that corner pocket (ie instead of potting the 8).

Here, to get my in-off, the qball can hit the 8 a bit left-of-center -- or, it can hit the 8 dead-center -- or, amazingly, it can hit the 8 a bit right-of-center. This (hitting right of center) iz mind-blowing, from a phyzics point of view. I wonder how many pool playerz have scratched like this -- impossible!!!! -- holy hell!!!!

But, back to the issue -- i have had the cue in my hand about 3 times since Xmas (no smart comments pleez) -- one of theze times it was to see how hard i could hit the ball, and what style did the trick. The answer -- the piston stroke won -- i could get six and a half lengths of my 12' by 6' table -- the pendulum was a quarter length behind. Not only that, but, every shot uzing the piston went straight up (and down) the table -- whereaz, most of my efforts uzing the pendulum had to be junked, koz the qball would come back too far left, or right, of the intended line.

So, getting back to your stun-pot-8 -- one can get az much power az u like uzing the piston -- unless one haz a very peculiar style. No need to drop the elbow.

I allwayz wondered why some threads mentioned using a radar gun to check break speed -- why not just hit the qball straight up the table, and see how many lengths one can get???

Anyhow -- for anyone wanting to improov both the accuracy and power of their 9ball break -- uze the piston -- here i am talking about the full piston, not Fran's half-piston (ie the pendulumiston) -- not having a go at Fran here.

I wouldnt mind hearing some feedback on any or all of this stuff -- or iz my style etc peculiar.

pooltchr
05-30-2006, 04:16 AM
If you are using a pendulum stroke and the ball doesn't go straight up and down the table, you aren't making contact on the vertical center of the ball.

Question. Can you give me an example where you would ever need the cue ball to travel the length of the table 6 times in a game? The most I can think of is 3 full lengths.
Steve

Cornerman
05-30-2006, 05:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ANGEBONES:</font><hr> Is it ok to drop your elbow on your follow-thru? <hr /></blockquote>Sure.

I think the last time this came up (every other month or so), I linked some videos of great snooker players who dropped their elbow on every power shot. O'Sullivan and Hendry, IIRC.

Fred

DickLeonard
05-30-2006, 06:18 AM
Fran I went thru a period of throwing the cue and then catching it. That was when I discovered that holding the cue in your ring and baby finger put your grip in perfect alignment for a truly straight stroke for much longer. No up and down as the pendulum natural stroke arc gives you.

I do subscribe to the "if it isn't broke don't fix" mentality. I can't believe when Instructors get together they don't say God how good would Efren be if we straighten out his weird stroke.

Cueless Joey
05-30-2006, 07:59 AM
That shot doesn't require much power ( the 8 ball ).
It requires a drag stroke ( that's what I call it ).
You hit the cb low and shoot it soft with a long follow.
Of course, you can roll the ball too, but it's less accurate.

Bob_Jewett
05-30-2006, 10:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> ...
I'd like to see anyone shoot this w/out dropping the elbow. <hr /></blockquote>
I think that if you get Tony Robles to shoot this shot, you will get your wish. I think I could shoot the shot with a perfectly still elbow.

As mentioned before, the vast majority of players drop their elbows some on power shots. When talking "elbow drop" you need to be clear about how much. Many players drop their elbows only about the thickness of their upper arm on most power shots.

Two articles that discuss elbows and the strange things people do with them are:
http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2004-02.pdf
http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2004-03.pdf

For most of the players I've checked, there are some shots for which their elbows do not move.

Scott Lee
05-30-2006, 12:28 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> ...
I'd like to see anyone shoot this w/out dropping the elbow. <hr /></blockquote>
I think that if you get Tony Robles to shoot this shot, you will get your wish. I think I could shoot the shot with a perfectly still elbow.
<hr /></blockquote>

Joey...I can shoot this shot with NO elbow drop whatsoever.
Ask me to show you, next time you see me...

Scott

Cueless Joey
05-30-2006, 02:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> ...
I'd like to see anyone shoot this w/out dropping the elbow. <hr /></blockquote>
I think that if you get Tony Robles to shoot this shot, you will get your wish. I think I could shoot the shot with a perfectly still elbow.
<hr /></blockquote>

Joey...I can shoot this shot with NO elbow drop whatsoever.
Ask me to show you, next time you see me...

Scott <hr /></blockquote>
Without licking the ball or bunting it? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
For the love of the almighty, I cannot shoot it unless I drag the tip to/on the cueball.

cushioncrawler
05-30-2006, 05:02 PM
Yes, i wasnt hitting the vertical center -- with very little practice i can use any and all styles fairly accurately for all ordinary shots -- but the 6 lengths stuff was just a way of finding and measuring my hardest hit, ie az if breaking -- here i was making the biggest backswing possible -- i was surprized that the piston never hit one bad shot, whilst it took me many shots with the pendulum before i got a shot worth measuring.

In fact, i just remembered, i found that i couldnt really use the pure pendulum, the closest i could come was Fran'z pendulumiston (ie dropping the elbow during follow-thru). This tends to support what Fred said -- alltho, when i checked the video of O'Sullivan's historic screw-back, i was surprized to see that he had allmost zero elbow drop after (or before) hitting the qball.

Stretch
05-30-2006, 06:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Yes, i wasnt hitting the vertical center -- with very little practice i can use any and all styles fairly accurately for all ordinary shots -- but the 6 lengths stuff was just a way of finding and measuring my hardest hit, ie az if breaking -- here i was making the biggest backswing possible -- i was surprized that the piston never hit one bad shot, whilst it took me many shots with the pendulum before i got a shot worth measuring.

In fact, i just remembered, i found that i couldnt really use the pure pendulum, the closest i could come was Fran'z pendulumiston (ie dropping the elbow during follow-thru). This tends to support what Fred said -- alltho, when i checked the video of O'Sullivan's historic screw-back, i was surprized to see that he had allmost zero elbow drop after (or before) hitting the qball. <hr /></blockquote>

What historic screw back are you refering to crawler? It must have been pretty impressive. I love watching Jimmy White draw the rock. He's got to be one of the best ball strikers i've ever seen. St.

cushioncrawler
05-31-2006, 03:51 AM
I tried but couldnt find it on google, so perhaps it isnt as historic as i said -- i will ask colin colenso, he will remember it. Ronnie is shooting from about the middle of the baulk area -- the red iz near a corner pocket -- Ronnie plays a shot-to-nothing, potting the red, and screwing back into baulk (just in case he misses, ie a safety).

Ronnie's shot was in fact a little bit more difficult (ie longer range) than the classic screw back from the black on its spot, played from baulk, the qball screwing back into baulk -- which is not some sort of snooker shot -- it is just a fancy "trick-shot" -- but it gives much bragging-right -- it is said to be easy on the slick and fast clothes used for pro-snooker -- but is next to impossible on a club table.

So, i remember that Ronnie used the pendulum -- amazingly he had next to zero elbow drop on the follow-thru -- ie it was a full pendulum -- not a pendulumiston.

cushioncrawler
05-31-2006, 04:32 AM
I think that a pure pendulum carnt give u a big follow-thru -- for a big follow-thru one needs to finish with a piston action -- hence an unavoidable elbow drop (which iz all what u more or less said earlyr i think).

Allmost everyone is in favour of a long follow-thru when using draw or drag etc -- i dont want to sound like an instructor, but -- i reckon that nearly every shot in the book can be played with zero follow-thru -- u try to stop the cue within the qball, at least that is the feeling, a video might show that the qtip goes past the qball a tad. Everyone should give it a try -- just for fun -- zero follow -- its the sort of shot that is often needed when the qball is too close to the object ball -- who knows, for some players who are unhappy with their game, it might take them up to the next level. I dont know why i mentioned this.

Cueless Joey
05-31-2006, 08:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> I think that a pure pendulum carnt give u a big follow-thru -- for a big follow-thru one needs to finish with a piston action -- hence an unavoidable elbow drop (which iz all what u more or less said earlyr i think).

Allmost everyone is in favour of a long follow-thru when using draw or drag etc -- i dont want to sound like an instructor, but -- i reckon that nearly every shot in the book can be played with zero follow-thru -- u try to stop the cue within the qball, at least that is the feeling, a video might show that the qtip goes past the qball a tad. Everyone should give it a try -- just for fun -- zero follow -- its the sort of shot that is often needed when the qball is too close to the object ball -- who knows, for some players who are unhappy with their game, it might take them up to the next level. I dont know why i mentioned this. <hr /></blockquote>
The follow-thru makes shooting more accurate imo.
Even though the ball has already left before the follow-thru, the act of following thru makes the stroke more fluid and you keep the tip in line ( and visually you stay with the line of shot ).
I don't drop my elbow when drawing btw. I think the draw stroke and punch stroke are really the same. Just different tip location. The same with force-follow.
Nip stroke is the one where you let the cue go literally.
But, for 90% of the shots, a punch stroke or follow stroke would do.

Bob_Jewett
05-31-2006, 01:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> ... . I think I could shoot the shot with a perfectly still elbow.
... <hr /></blockquote>
I tried this last night on fairly worn cloth. My spotter said that my elbow didn't move. It's not my normal stroke for that shot -- my elbow usually drops 3 inches or so -- but it wasn't particularly hard.

Cueless Joey
05-31-2006, 01:24 PM
Did you drag the cueball or slow bunted it?
I couldn't do it with the tip dipping on the cloth.
I had to follow THROUGH the cueball about a foot.

Cornerman
05-31-2006, 01:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr>
Ronnie plays a shot-to-nothing, potting the red, and screwing back into baulk (just in case he misses, ie a safety).

So, i remember that Ronnie used the pendulum -- amazingly he had next to zero elbow drop on the follow-thru -- ie it was a full pendulum -- not a pendulumiston. <hr /></blockquote>Here's the thread linking to the videos that shows Ronnie most definitely dropping his elbow on power shots.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=300417&amp;postcount=41

FWIW,

Fred

cushioncrawler
05-31-2006, 04:26 PM
Yes. Re the link to Hendry -- it was interesting watching Hendry's style -- he seemed to use them all, albeit a shortish compact version mostly. In fact i thort i detected a "Pump" for one shot -- this is a poke where the arm&amp;hand moov back and forward in one solid unit -- at least that is the feeling -- in fact, it too is a Pendulum (of a sorts), where the fulcrum is the shoulder, not the elbow -- but i tend to think of the Pump as being 100% upper arm -- the normal Pendulum is 100% fore-arm -- and i think that a 50%/50% Pumpulum action never hurt nobody.

Bob_Jewett
05-31-2006, 05:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> Did you drag the cueball or slow bunted it?
I couldn't do it with the tip dipping on the cloth.
I had to follow THROUGH the cueball about a foot. <hr /></blockquote>
The cue ball still had a little draw when it got to the object ball.

Qtec
06-01-2006, 01:26 AM
He drops his elbow on every shot with a long follow-thru. He has to because the hand 'follows' the cue.

Q

Stretch
06-01-2006, 09:26 AM
LMFAO at Pumpulum. I can see we're going to have to re-write the Pool terminology Dictionary pretty soon. Here i thought Pumpulum described the hip movement required to get a "hanger" to drop, or correct the line of a slow roller on it's way. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif St.

yaffabernstein
06-04-2006, 04:33 PM
By all means, drop your elbow a lot, all the pros do. There are many force follows and power shots that can not be made unless you do drop. Its a wave, the butt comes up, you drop and shove forcing it through the cue ball level. Look at the videos of all the great stars and you will see them doing exadtly this, Mosconi, Crane, Caras, Hoppe, Greenleaf, its a long list. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

randyg
06-04-2006, 05:36 PM
yaffenberstein: I think you are looking at the wrong videos.....randyg

Cueless Joey
06-04-2006, 06:16 PM
START(
%HF7E9%II7G2%PH2L3%UC8C5%VE8E0%WG6G7%XH1K1%YI3D2%Z H0E5%[Q3K3
%\J9D1
)END
You guys shoot that with a little snip or drop the elbow and go thrue the cb really slow with a slight high right?

yaffabernstein
06-04-2006, 06:22 PM
I am looking at actual footage of all of these hall of famers in action and they all dropped their elbow, the shaft never hit the cloth and in fact raised up some. All pros drop their elbows, stand behind one once and see.

Cueless Joey
06-04-2006, 06:36 PM
Larry, as much as I hate your guts, you are correct in this one.
Earl even appears to spin his wrist on the follow thru.
Even though it doesn't affect the cueball b/c it's long gone by then. He has a long follow on a slow stroke even so the tip goes thru the ball ( not dipping ).
Saw those matches on OLN today.
Karen Corr barely moves that elbow though.
Hollman, Manalo, Mika and Archer showed elbow drops.
Keith was the worst. He HAD to with that side-saddle stroke.

yaffabernstein
06-04-2006, 07:30 PM
Sure I am right, no question about it, but joey, Yaffa dont hate your guts, lets make love, not war dude. How about a little internet huggie huggie and kissie kissie, now did not that feel good:? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

yaffabernstein
06-04-2006, 08:35 PM
So if we all agree the real pros drop their elbows, now tell me why randy G and Scott Lee tell you not to? They don't play on tour so maybe they don't know what is going on?

yaffabernstein
06-05-2006, 04:05 AM
You need more than one stroke, you need several. There are times to poke, nip, punch, times to stroke normally and hold the elbow in place. But when you want to grip it and rip it, the elbow must drop and you must mannipulate a different stroke that is un natural and hard to learn. A wave, let the butt come up, then drop it and drive it thru level with the bed of the table and keep it level or as with me the tip rises a touch. Add a wrist flick to that and there is serious power in that stroke. Trust me on this, there is not one single way to stand, hold the cue, grip the cue, stroke the cue, there are many that must be learned. Teachers teach beginners there is only one way which is good for them, but not good for the advancing player.

pooltchr
06-05-2006, 04:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote yaffabernstein:</font><hr> So if we all agree the real pros drop their elbows, now tell me why randy G and Scott Lee tell you not to? They don't play on tour so maybe they don't know what is going on? <hr /></blockquote>

Randy and Scott, along with Cane, Carl, myself, and several others are teachers. Our job is to help people become better players. We teach a very simple stroke that can help anyone who applies it a consistant, repeatable, STRAIGHT stroke. If you have the talent of Johnny or Efren, you probably already have a straight stroke, regardless of how you get there. For the vast majority, this is not the case. Funny thing though. When some of the pros feel like their game needs a tune-up, guess who they call.
Steve

Eric.
06-05-2006, 05:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote yaffabernstein:</font><hr> So if we all agree the real pros drop their elbows, now tell me why randy G and Scott Lee tell you not to? They don't play on tour so maybe they don't know what is going on? <hr /></blockquote>

For a guy that hates this place, you sure spend a lot of time trying to sneak back in. Take a long walk off a short bridge, Larry.


Eric

Bumps
06-05-2006, 10:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr>
For a guy that hates this place, you sure spend a lot of time trying to sneak back in. Take a long walk off a short bridge, Larry.
Eric <hr /></blockquote>

You've GOT to be kidding me!!! I came here because I thought that idiot was banned!!

Cueless Joey
06-05-2006, 10:46 AM
Larry, you are an ahohl but you are right.
The tip has to either punch the cueball or go thru it imo.
I think there are two major types of stroke.
One where you don't drop the elbow where you punch the cb and the tip goes down on the cloth.
One where you have to drop the elbow to go through the ball.
Just two strokes where different speed.
The snip draw where you let the stick go and draw the ball at a tight angle is another one but is hardly used.

cushioncrawler
06-05-2006, 09:04 PM
I'll have to leave that shot to Bob J.

The truth is that i have never ever played a shot on a proper pool table -- for starters i would have trouble with the lowness of the table compared to the highness of a 12 by 6 (which are too low for me anyhow) -- hell, i get a sore back playing Virtual Pool. But at least i have seen a proper pool table, just the once -- in fact Quinten Hann was playing (9 ball) on it at the time -- but i dont ever recall actually touching a table yet.

Me myself, i would have trouble trying to pot that 8 to leave an eazyish 9 -- too many negative thorts -- Billy B would be whispering that i have never written a book on 9ball -- Fran would be whispering that i have read too many books -- HAL would be whispering that i only had 2 points on the 8 to aim at -- Dr O would be whispering that outside english would be suicide for a skid -- Dick L would be whispering that he wouldnt take the shot on unless the balls were Raschigs -- Fast L would be whispering (***** deleted ****) -- mybreak would be shouting "No Systems" at the top of his voice -- Cueless Joey would be watching my elbow like a hawk -- and, if i run out, the ozzy-oyster will stick a picture of the opera house on my shirt.