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Bassn7
06-26-2006, 09:14 AM
Total Population of Pool Players = 100%
Bar Box 8/9-Ball League players (APA,BCA,VNEA etc.) and bar table 8-ball players combined: 93%
9-Ball big table players: 5%
One-Pocket, 14.1, Banks: 1.5%
Big Table, 9-Ball,8-ball Pro Players: .5%

Because I believe this is true, Archer vs Varner, race to 21, 8-ball on a bar box... now THAT would be a DVD worth owning and using as a study tool. I'd buy it.

Rich R.
06-26-2006, 10:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Total Population of Pool Players = 100%
Bar Box 8/9-Ball League players (APA,BCA,VNEA etc.) and bar table 8-ball players combined: 93%
9-Ball big table players: 5%
One-Pocket, 14.1, Banks: 1.5%
Big Table, 9-Ball,8-ball Pro Players: .5%
<hr /></blockquote>
I'm sorry, but you have not catagory for me.
I'm an APA league player, but I play on big tables.

Please don't assume all league players play on bar boxes.

Bassn7
06-26-2006, 11:43 AM
At the regional and national level I'm guesing you do.?

SpiderMan
06-26-2006, 12:42 PM
All of the BCA/ACS leagues I've played in over the past 15 years have been on 8-footers with drop pockets. I think your observations may be regional.

I, too, would like to see more pro 8-ball.

SpiderMan

Rich R.
06-26-2006, 05:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> At the regional and national level I'm guesing you do.? <hr /></blockquote>
On a regional and national level, the 7' tables are required, but on a weekly basis, I play on big tables.
For the few weeks a year I am forced to play on small tables, I would never classify myself as a bar box player.

Before anyone jumps on me, I am not trying to knock bar box players. I am just trying to make the point that the original list did not have a classification for me and a lot of others.

pooltchr
06-26-2006, 07:05 PM
Rich,
I agree. I play APA 9-ball on 9 footers 42 weeks a year. If we make the city tournament, I play on the 7 footers but at the most that is 3 weekends a year. Throw in another week IF we get to Vegas. The three biggest APA rooms in town are all on 9 footers. I know a room in Raleigh that has over 60 APA teams...all playing on 9 footers.
On the APA score sheet, it asks what size tables the matches were played on. It would be interesting to see the actual break down. I suspect that the 9 foot tables are being used in a greater percentage than we might guess.
Steve

Rich R.
06-27-2006, 03:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> I suspect that the 9 foot tables are being used in a greater percentage than we might guess.<hr /></blockquote>
Steve, that is exactly my point.
For quite some time, I have thought that the APA should have two divisions, one for 9' tables and one for smaller 7' and 8' tables. However, I don't see this happening in the near future. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

pooltchr
06-27-2006, 04:50 AM
Rich,
I agree. The APA was originally designed as a bar league...teams from one bar playing against teams from another bar. As it grew, more and more pool rooms began to field teams, and the players on the larger tables increased in numbers. The APA is not going to do anything that might cut into the number of bar teams that are still a big part of the league. That is why the tournaments are played on 7 footers. That is also why I prefer in-house divisions to the traveling divisions. I know what tables I will be playing on every week.
Steve

Fran Crimi
06-27-2006, 07:05 AM
Well, if you want to talk about leagues, I guess you would be pretty close to the truth. However, keep in mind that 8 Ball rules were written with Bar Box play in mind, i.e.--- the rule that all balls stay down. Traditionally, in call shot games, illegally pocketed balls are spotted.

The majority of people who play pool don't play in any type of league or organized event. They just play for fun, and here in the northeast, many fun players take the game seriously enough to take lessons, and a huge number of them play on big tables. In fact, here in NYC, you can't find a pool room with a bar box in it. You'd have to go to a bar for that, and the table condition usually has a lot to be desired.

Fran

Rich R.
06-27-2006, 08:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> That is also why I prefer in-house divisions to the traveling divisions. I know what tables I will be playing on every week. <hr /></blockquote>
Steve, we agree again. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I have played in two different APA leagues and both have been totally in house divisions with 9' foot tables.

I could probably deal with the small tables, if I was forced to, but, if I had to play in a travel league, I probably wouldn't play in leagues.

I have heard some real horror stories about the travel leagues. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Bumps
06-27-2006, 02:11 PM
Fran,
Is it still the law that you can only have one table in a bar in New York State and it has to be a 3x6? Think this was the law when I moved south.

Fran Crimi
06-27-2006, 03:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bumps:</font><hr> Fran,
Is it still the law that you can only have one table in a bar in New York State and it has to be a 3x6? Think this was the law when I moved south. <hr /></blockquote>

Gee...I have no idea...I never even knew that was a law to begin with.

Fran

onepocketfanatic
06-28-2006, 08:39 PM
My BCA league plays on 8 footers until Vegas time, and then 7 footers. The really great thing was the Diamond talbes this year instead of the Bally's in Vegas. They actually play just like a regular table, where as the Bally tables were much to be desired IMHO.

DickLeonard
06-29-2006, 06:34 AM
Bumps liguor or beer were not allowed in pool rooms in NYS State till the late 90s. Bars were allowed one table and plastic cues with 11ml tips.

The Holiday Billiards the room in Syracuse where the Babe played all the time was in a separate building next to Holiday Bowl. In fact that corp. owned 7 bowling alleys with billiard rooms attached.

Then Jerry Jennings the mayor of Albany went to Boston and visited Jillians Billiards with three floors of pool tables,bars and food etc. He came back to Albany thinking a Jillians would be great for Albany found the antiquated laws concerning poolrooms met with Gov Pataki and almost instantaneously the laws were changed.

Most people in the industry had given up trying to have the laws changed after they finally reduced the age from 18 to 16 after fifty years of trying.

Some of the most ridiculous parts of the law was it was against the law to sell dope in a poolroom.

So New York owes it's new laws to Jillian's in Boston and Albany's mayors visit to Jillians. 100 years of Draconian laws wiped out in a flash.####.

Bumps
06-29-2006, 10:27 AM
Yeah, Dick, I knew about the beer etc. I knew a player who owned a bar, that's how I knew about it. Also used to be a law in NY that you had to close at midnight. Cap's in Syracuse was the only place in the state that could stay open all night for years, legally, that is;)

Scott Lee
06-29-2006, 10:53 AM
Dick...The law was changed in 1994. The guy who was the APA league operator on Long Island is a friend of mine. He and I started at the same time ('92), except it took him two more years, because the laws regarding having more than one pool table in a bar, had to be changed. He started his league in 1994.

Scott Lee

bsmutz
06-29-2006, 11:13 AM
Drinking from those 11ml tips can be difficult, but if you drink enough of them...

Fran Crimi
06-29-2006, 12:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Bumps liguor or beer were not allowed in pool rooms in NYS State till the late 90s. Bars were allowed one table and plastic cues with 11ml tips.

The Holiday Billiards the room in Syracuse where the Babe played all the time was in a separate building next to Holiday Bowl. In fact that corp. owned 7 bowling alleys with billiard rooms attached.

Then Jerry Jennings the mayor of Albany went to Boston and visited Jillians Billiards with three floors of pool tables,bars and food etc. He came back to Albany thinking a Jillians would be great for Albany found the antiquated laws concerning poolrooms met with Gov Pataki and almost instantaneously the laws were changed.

Most people in the industry had given up trying to have the laws changed after they finally reduced the age from 18 to 16 after fifty years of trying.

Some of the most ridiculous parts of the law was it was against the law to sell dope in a poolroom.

So New York owes it's new laws to Jillian's in Boston and Albany's mayors visit to Jillians. 100 years of Draconian laws wiped out in a flash.####.
<hr /></blockquote>


Well, that's not exactly how NY got the laws changed, Dick. I'm sure it had an influence, but there was something else. Back around 1994, I started an organization called the NY Metropolitan Billiard Room Association. The purpose was to do some bulk purchasing for the rooms at a cheaper rate, such as for cloth, and other products, and also to organize intra-room events like bringing back a NYC King of the Hill event, and other things like room teams playing against each other.

All the rooms in the NYC area loved the idea and joined. We had our first King of the Hill event and it was very successful and we were off and running...except for one thing....Greg Hunt of Amsterdam Billiards and Tom Vogel of Corner Billiards formed a coup to take over the Association in order to use it to lobby for a law change to allow alcohol in poolrooms. They literally took over the association, informed me one day that I had been reduced from President to note-taker. I told them, no way, and to form their own association if they wanted to lobby, but they already had mine and they decided not to go through the trouble to start their own, so I was out and they were in. I warned the others against this, that they were going to drop the association like a hot potato as soon as they got what they wanted, but the others didn't care one way or the other. Sure enough, they used the Association's name and some $60,000 to lobby for the law change and they won. Then, as I predicted, they disbanded the Association a year later. They never did do a damn thing for the players other than raise the rates and charge triple for mixed drinks.

Fran

Harold Acosta
06-29-2006, 05:00 PM
How about closing at midnight, have everyone leave the room, turn lights off, put locks on the doors, and then reopen several minutes later because it was the start of a new day?

Bumps
06-29-2006, 08:43 PM
Scott,
When I left the state in '97 no place in the area had more than one table that I know of. I saw my friend, the bar owner, several times when we went back to visit and he never mentioned it. Seems like he would have put in more tables if he could have. I remember several years before that, you had to get a special license to have more than one table and it could only be for a weekend. Are you sure this wasn't just for the Long Island area? We were in the Binghamton area, far from the City.

Scott Lee
06-30-2006, 07:30 PM
Bumps...No, I'm not certain. All I know is he had the APA franchise for several counties on L.I., and didn't get his league started until there were more tables available.

Scott Lee

Bob_Jewett
07-05-2006, 10:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Total Population of Pool Players = 100%
... <hr /></blockquote>
According to industry numbers, that's between 30 and 40 million players in the US. I think most of them play on home tables. Judging from the league membership numbers I've heard, there are maybe 1 million players in leagues in the US.