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PoolSharkAllen
07-06-2006, 09:33 AM
I know that other sports have rules with the intention of preventing gambling. Are there any BCA rules on gambling?

Bumps
07-06-2006, 10:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PoolSharkAllen:</font><hr> I know that other sports have rules with the intention of preventing gambling. Are there any BCA rules on gambling? <hr /></blockquote>

LOL! I don't think so. Even if they did, how would they enforce them? I think the WPBA may have some rules governing money play at tournaments, maybe Fran knows more about this than I do. I also think there is something in the PGA, but do you think it stops it? There even exits {or is in the works} a way to bet on pool tournament matches. But I assume you're talking head to head games? Wouldn't even like to see it myself.

PoolSharkAllen
07-06-2006, 10:14 AM
Clarification: My question is about rules concerning gambling during tournaments.

Bumps
07-06-2006, 10:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PoolSharkAllen:</font><hr> Clarification: My question is about rules concerning gambling during tournaments. <hr /></blockquote>

You mean between players playing each other in tournament matches or betting on matches among spectaters/players? I remember a couple of guys who used to book bets on all the pro matches, men or women. The organizations began to discourage booking matches in the late '80s, I think.

onepocketfanatic
07-08-2006, 10:10 PM
The leauge I play in (BCA)...there are strick rules about gambling. It is definitely against the rules (myabe it is just the league that I am in, but I don't think so).
Our team has a break and run deal where if you break and run everyone on the team gives you a dollar. We had to keep even this under wraps....no gambling of any type.

Terry
07-09-2006, 05:25 AM
Last year at the world juniors in Austria I was team leader for team Canada, some of the kids where gambling and I was told by a director of the EPBF that the kids could be disqualified from the tournament. I haven't seen the rule and consequences in writing but like I said I was told if any kids were caught gambling they would be put out of the tournament. Terry

PoolSharkAllen
07-09-2006, 11:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Terry:</font><hr> Last year at the world juniors in Austria I was team leader for team Canada, some of the kids where gambling and I was told by a director of the EPBF that the kids could be disqualified from the tournament. I haven't seen the rule and consequences in writing but like I said I was told if any kids were caught gambling they would be put out of the tournament. Terry <hr /></blockquote>

Other sports like professional baseball have very strict rules about players' gambling, as it is too easy to change the outcome by dumping a game or a match.

There was another thread recently about the 2006 BCA Junior National, in which the subject of gambling came up. Someone made the comment that "Years ago, a jr. player would be DISQUALIFIED if he/she were caught gambling, even outside the tournament. Seems like the 'rules' have disappeared."

This is why I'm curious to know if there are any rules on gambling by the players inside or outside of a tournament.

SirRender
07-10-2006, 09:30 AM
For the life of me I can't understand why someone would devote so much time and energy into developing a skill and not want to profit from it. Tourneys don't pay enough and in my opinion leagues are ruining pool and billiards. If you get a chance watch some accustats video's and then compare the same person or persons playing for cash. Dig in your pocket, pull out some cash or go play marbles...

Rich R.
07-10-2006, 10:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SirRender:</font><hr>in my opinion leagues are ruining pool and billiards. <hr /></blockquote>
I have to disagree with your opinion on this issue.
Although leagues may not be doing anything to make better players of their members, you have to remember that most league members are more interested in the social aspects of the league. They are not hard core players.
However, without the leagues, many more pool rooms would be forced to close their doors or abandon pool in favor of some other form of income producing activity.
Whether you like to believe it or not, there are not enough hard core players around to support all of the pool rooms. It is the leagues that are keeping pool alive.

SirRender
07-10-2006, 10:41 AM
That may be true, I am not disputing lower level players are keeping more pool rooms open but... What kind of pool rooms are they keeping open? Do we want quantity or quality? We have pool halls popping up all over the place and how many have nine footers? or Simonis? or a house pro? or direction for advancement? The knowledge of the game is what I bet on along with my ability. I'll meet girls at the mall... Your arguement is well noted though.

Billy
07-10-2006, 10:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SirRender:</font><hr> For the life of me I can't understand why someone would devote so much time and energy into developing a skill and not want to profit from it. Tourneys don't pay enough and in my opinion leagues are ruining pool and billiards. If you get a chance watch some accustats video's and then compare the same person or persons playing for cash. Dig in your pocket, pull out some cash or go play marbles... <hr /></blockquote>

nothing wrong with a little wagering here and there but maybe at certain times you need to refrain?

pool tournaments are, at least temporarily, now paying several hundred thousand dollars for a first place finish with a couple of million dollars in the total purse

leagues are the best thing to ever happen to pool

jmo

Bumps
07-10-2006, 12:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy:</font><hr>
pool tournaments are, at least temporarily, now paying several hundred thousand dollars for a first place finish
jmo <hr /></blockquote>

Only the ipt so far. And I think it'll be the only one for a LONG time, unfortunately. And while I agree that leagues are sparking an interest in the game, I don't like the kind of pool I'm seeing because of them. The skill levels are not great, little interest in the history of the game, even as to who the current great players are. I never was much for social play.

SirRender
07-10-2006, 01:44 PM
In reply to how much money a pool tourney pays I would like you to review the 1st place prizes again. Here is your quote -"pool tournaments are, at least temporarily, now paying several hundred thousand dollars for a first place finish with a couple of million dollars in the total purse"- I half to respond with where...? Would you like 5 to 1 on the odds of that. I would have to say the Derby is on of the biggest tourneys and winning all three events (which hasn't happened yet to my knowledge) pays what, respectfully, 120,000.00. Do your research friend... I respect the fact that you like the social atmosphere and checking out the pretty little waitress but in reality playing beginners only happens for money because it ruins your game. If you don't know that, maybe your a beginner. I will be willing to teach you though at around $500 a game- you know, something cheap. "Thumper"

PoolSharkAllen
07-10-2006, 05:33 PM
Somehow, these threads have a way of diverging from the question being asked by the original poster!

I was really interested in knowing if there are any rules on gambling by the players inside or outside of a tournament.
It is surprising that this appears to be one of those taboo subjects that no one wants to comment on.

Rich R.
07-10-2006, 05:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SirRender:</font><hr> That may be true, I am not disputing lower level players are keeping more pool rooms open but... What kind of pool rooms are they keeping open? Do we want quantity or quality? We have pool halls popping up all over the place and how many have nine footers? or Simonis? or a house pro? or direction for advancement? The knowledge of the game is what I bet on along with my ability. I'll meet girls at the mall... Your arguement is well noted though. <hr /></blockquote>
SirRender, IMHO, I believe any pool room with the doors open is a good pool room. It is a place where a young player can develop an interest in playing pool. As he/she gets better, he/she can look for a better pool room, if they must.
All of the things you mentioned are great attributes in a pool room, but, unfortunately, we can only find all of them in a perfect world. Until we gain enough players, at any level, we will not see all of the things you mentioned, except in the best rooms. It is definitely something to strive for.

I don't want to beat this to death, but I did think of another point in support of the leagues, which should be noted. Both the APA and the BCA sponsor some pro tournaments. I believe this is a huge contribution from the amateur leagues.

Scott Lee
07-10-2006, 08:30 PM
Allen...I made the original statement you quoted. Yes, there are rules in place regarding gambling in or around jr. national tournaments. What is lacking, imo, is someone to enforce the rules. I don't think it is taboo, so much as few posters have actual experience being there.

Scott Lee

PoolSharkAllen
07-10-2006, 09:21 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Allen...I made the original statement you quoted. Yes, there are rules in place regarding gambling in or around jr. national tournaments. What is lacking, imo, is someone to enforce the rules. I don't think it is taboo, so much as few posters have actual experience being there.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Scott: I omitted your name in quoting you as I wasn't sure if you were ok with my mentioning your name.

I suppose it's hard enough catching players gambling in or around tournaments, let alone enforcing the rules.

However, in that other thread, it does appear that the poster, 'watchez', was trying to get some gambling action for Justin Bergman, while in Tucson for the Junior Nationals. In your opinion, do you think any rules were broken?

Billy
07-11-2006, 03:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SirRender:</font><hr> In reply to how much money a pool tourney pays I would like you to review the 1st place prizes again. Here is your quote -"pool tournaments are, at least temporarily, now paying several hundred thousand dollars for a first place finish with a couple of million dollars in the total purse"- I half to respond with where...? Would you like 5 to 1 on the odds of that.

<font color="blue">http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_schedule/default.asp </font color>

I would have to say the Derby is on of the biggest tourneys and winning all three events (which hasn't happened yet to my knowledge) pays what, respectfully, 120,000.00. Do your research friend... I respect the fact that you like the social atmosphere and checking out the pretty little waitress but in reality playing beginners only happens for money because it ruins your game. If you don't know that, maybe your a beginner. I will be willing to teach you though at around $500 a game- you know, something cheap. "Thumper" <hr /></blockquote>

Billy
07-11-2006, 03:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SirRender:</font><hr> In reply to how much money a pool tourney pays I would like you to review the 1st place prizes again. Here is your quote -"pool tournaments are, at least temporarily, now paying several hundred thousand dollars for a first place finish with a couple of million dollars in the total purse"- I half to respond with where...? Would you like 5 to 1 on the odds of that.

<font color="blue"> </font color> www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_schedule/default.asp (http://www.internationalpooltour.com/ipt_content/event_schedule/default.asp) <font color="blue"> </font color>


I would have to say the Derby is on of the biggest tourneys and winning all three events (which hasn't happened yet to my knowledge) pays what, respectfully, 120,000.00. Do your research friend... I respect the fact that you like the social atmosphere and checking out the pretty little waitress but in reality playing beginners only happens for money because it ruins your game. If you don't know that, maybe your a beginner. I will be willing to teach you though at around $500 a game- you know, something cheap. "Thumper" <hr /></blockquote>

marek
07-11-2006, 08:59 AM
Hi!
I dont know if BCA has the rules you want but EPBF (european pocketbilliard federation)has so called the sport regulations where you can find this text in paragraph 1.3:
"the athletes are expected to behave in such a fashion at all times, that is to be expected of a professional, and that is no way to be seen as negative towards the EPBF/WPA, their member federations, their athletes, officials, representatives or sponsors."
I feel this definition clearly includes gambling as it casts bad image on the sport of pool. For example: Fine and penalty catalogue of the same the sport regulations includes this:
Alcohol or drug abuse during youth european championship, visiting gambling casino or negative conduct during european championship leads to disqualification from the event. I hope this can help you.

nineball33
07-17-2006, 02:40 PM
Awww nothing like stepping up to the mat an asking for $ 50 this game??

DickLeonard
07-18-2006, 05:56 AM
PoolSharkAllen the Calcutta something pool took from Golf tourneys created situations where players could lose the final game and win more money on the calcutta. If your sponsor had your opponent in the Calcutta and stood to win far more money on the Calcutta that your winning the tourney. That would leed to the possiblity that a dump would be the more financial reward for you and your backer.####

DickLeonard
07-18-2006, 06:19 AM
Marek every year I receive a survey from the PGA of America on the Golf Tour. They always say they fine players but I have never seen any changes in behavior. Of Course since 90% of all Pro Golfers are Republicans I have stopped watching Pro Golf.

Most biggest complaint was having to watch Golf with the sound off. Mother EFFR was always being uttered when certain players mis hit tee shots. Followed by not penalizing players for slamming their clubs into the ground making that ground unplayable for anyone who happens to land there after them.####

9_Ball_Junky
07-21-2006, 02:45 AM
alright.........what the hell was that post about.....i thought we were talking about gambling in pro billiards and such, not whiny @$$ golfers......

howsabout that.........?