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wolfdancer
07-14-2006, 12:10 PM
Quiz on monday.....
These all link to each other,and even if only 10% is true....it's scary stuff
http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm
http://www.meta-religion.com/Secret_societies/Groups/Order_of_Skull/part_1.htm
(on this one to read it all, you have to change the number in the URL)
and finally:
http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam01.htm

eg8r
07-14-2006, 09:40 PM
Pretty interesting stuff. Just to mention, I have been reading all three sites and don't see any need to mess with the URL (unless you like to), the two bottom sites either utilize a "Next" button, or a return to the Index (or table of contents, I cannot remember). Not sure if I will get through all of it, but definitely interesting.

eg8r

DickLeonard
07-18-2006, 06:52 AM
Wolfdancer I am reading George seniors ancestors I think I have to regain my ancestoral heritage. My family tree goes back to Mary Queen of Scots. What the hell have I been doing all these years hanging in PoolHalls I should have been at Yale.####

DickLeonard
07-18-2006, 07:28 AM
Wolfdancer I always wondered what Idiots would give GWB 200 million to run for President. I see where the money came from and where the money is leading too. The first two chapters are a blueprint of War and suppling a War and the profit to be made from War. It is no wonder they were concentrating on IrAQ. ####

wolfdancer
07-18-2006, 09:18 AM
"Eli" Leonard.....it's got a nice ring to it.
My brother mentioned this study and book to me....
When you wonder how certain people succeed :

"Snakes in suits"
Spot the true psychopath among the sharks in your office

By Giles Whittell / The Times of London

HERE ARE SOME facts: Andrew Fastow, formerly of Enron, stands accused by an American court of taking $30 million in kickbacks from the company while its shareholders lost more than $70 billion. Bernie Ebbers, formerly of WorldCom, is said to have arranged for his telecommunications firm to lend him $408 million as it slid towards bankruptcy. John Rigas, founder of the Adelphia cable TV giant, built himself a $13 million private golf course and, it is claimed, "borrowed" more than $3 billion from company accounts for his family while his shareholders saw $60 billion wiped from their investments. And here is a perfectly sober conclusion: if guilty, they are all psychopaths. Not killers. Not rapists. Not necessarily even criminals. Just cold-blooded, remorseless, egomaniacal psychopaths.

It's a tricky word. Being a psychopath is not something that ordinary people aspire to, but neither does it have to involve face-eating cannibalism. The central qualification is to show no conscience; to fail to empathize.

Fastow, Rigas and the other stars of the great corporate meltdown showed little sign of conscience before - or since - being accused by the lumbering U.S. court system, and they share other symptoms of psychopathy. They radiated charisma and authority, but hid much about themselves and their organizations. They revelled in risk, took no account of its potential cost to others or themselves, and rose to power during a time of chaos and upheaval.

When their worlds imploded, the markets staggered in disbelief. Hundreds of thousands of employees and investors lost pensions, savings and money they could ill afford to have gambled. The bosses expressed scant regret and most of them continue to insist that they have done nothing wrong. Meanwhile, regulators, FBI agents and forensic psychologists, not to mention the fleeced American middle class, continue to scratch their heads and wonder how these apparent shysters got to where they did.

A diffident-sounding Canadian academic with a trim grey beard has an answer; possibly the answer. He first voiced it publicly to an audience of Canadian police officers in Newfoundland in August.

At the end of a talk on organised crime, Dr. Robert Hare mentioned his belief that some of the year's worst accounting scandals could have been avoided if all chief executives were screened for psychopathic tendencies. He was quoted everywhere, not so much because of the sensational implication that some of America's best-known companies had been run for most of the 1990s by people with a major mental disorder, as because of who he is.

Hare defined psychopathy for modern scientists with an exhaustive questionnaire, sold only to clinicians, called the Psychopathy Checklist, or PCL-R. It was introduced in 1980 and has become an internationally recognized instrument for identifying psychopaths. It means that when a subject scores 30 (out of a possible 40) in a prison in Dundee, an expert in Detroit will have a good idea of his proclivities.

That's the good news. The bad news is that the PCL-R revealed that psychopaths are everywhere. Most are non-violent, but all leave a trail of havoc through their families and work environments, using and abusing colleagues and loved ones, endlessly manipulating others, constantly reinventing themselves.

Hare puts the average North American incidence of psychopathy at one per cent of the population, but the damage they inflict on society is out of all proportion to their numbers, not least because they gravitate to high-profile professions that offer the promise of control over others, such as law, politics,

By the Hare definition there are 300,000 in Canada alone.

Despite this, spotting psychopaths is hard, though it may be about to get easier. Next year Hare and a New York-based colleague, Paul Babiak, will publish a book called Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go To Work, that will at least alert the average office worker to the possibility that her amusing but exasperating - and, frankly, narcissistic and untrustworthy - colleague may be clinically psychopathic. Hare and Babiak will also produce a new diagnostic tool based on the PCL-R but designed to help businesses to keep their recruits and senior management psychopath-free.

Enter the B-Scan. It won't be available to everyone, and it won't be free. Slightly jarringly, one is reminded that its authors are businessmen as well as academics. But they insist that it will do a better job of raising warning flags than traditional screening techniques such as CVs (routinely falsified and seldom checked) and interviews and role-playing ("Psychopaths love this stuff," Hare says. "It's like a game to them.").

If you are B-Scanned, it won't be you answering the questions. It will be your colleagues, grading your personal style, interpersonal relations, organisational maturity and antisocial tendencies according to 16 buzz words, none of them uplifting. They include the following: insincere, arrogant, insensitive, remorseless, shallow, impatient, erratic, unreliable, unfocused, parasitic, dramatic, unethical and bullying.

Yikes. Who isn't most of these things, at least some of the time?

I meet Hare in a London hotel and find him used to such anxieties.

"I know, I know," he says. "People read this stuff and suddenly everyone around them is a psychopath. They pick up on three or four of the characteristics and say, 'yeah, he's one.' But it's not like that. It's a medical syndrome. You've got to have the whole package."

And when you do, what does it look like? Hare gives an example, and not just any example. He first gave it to Nicole Kidman in a private meeting requested by her to help her prepare for her memorably chilly role in Malice.

"I gave her a scene," he says. "You're walking down the street and there's been an accident. A child has been hit by a car and is lying on the ground. There's a crowd around him. The mother's kneeling down there crying and emoting. You're curious but not appalled. You look at the child momentarily and then you look at the mother. You walk towards her, step in some blood and then study the mother's facial expressions for a minute or two. Then you walk back to your apartment or hotel room, walk into the bathroom and stand in front of the mirror practising those expressions. I said, 'If you did that, people would see that you don't understand emotion, you have no idea at all, you're a colour-blind person trying to explain colour.' They didn't use the scene, but they could have."

In the workplace such a person might resemble Dave, a real individual studied by Babiak who cut a swath of disruption through a highly profitable American electronics company in the mid-1990s. Dave was good-looking, well spoken and impressive in the interview that led to his recruitment. He was also a skilled and shameless liar, rude to subordinates, scheming towards his boss and quickly friendly with the firm's top management. Already on his third marriage by his mid-thirties, he was short tempered, happy to ignore assignments that he felt were beneath him, and quick to change the subject if challenged on a lie or asked to produce some real evidence of work.

When his boss summoned the courage and evidence to make a complaint to the company president, he found that Dave had got there first and secured for himself the status of "high-potential employee."

The boss ended up sidelined. Dave ended up promoted, swaggering and "in love with himself." He scored 19 on the PCL-R, lower than you would expect for a psychopathic murderer but much higher than your average working non-psychopath. He or she would score a five at most.

People such as Dave can be spotted early. Babiak recommends checking CVs exhaustively and auditing expenses - psychopaths like to indulge. It all seems obvious, but for the past 10 or 12 years, for most of corporate America, it hasn't been.

These have been tumultuous years in the world of business, with dot-coms booming and collapsing, older firms merging or shrinking to catch up, and hierarchies everywhere flattening faster than the boss can say: 'Hey, c'mon in, my door is always open.' In short, it has been a high old time for psychopaths.

"When you see what has happened with Enron and WorldCom and all these other big corporations, and you ask how the hell could this guy get in that position, well, there are answers," Hare says.

"When the structure's not there, when charisma is extremely important and style wins over substance, and one person ends up with three or four hundred million pounds in an offshore bank account, I start to get suspicious. And when the whole thing breaks and people are losing their pensions and livelihoods, these people give nothing back.

"Many of the high-level executives now being charged knew exactly what they were doing. They had no concern for anybody else, and you have to say they aren't warm, loving guys."

Likewise in politics. "Think what happened in the former Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia. The old rules went by the board. Structure vanished and all the ethnic tension that had been held in check by central government began to emerge. It was the perfect set-up for an opportunist, a thug or a psychopath to enter and take over."

That takeover usually has three stages. First, the psychopath identifies those who can help him and cultivates them with all his considerable charm. Then he pinpoints those who can harm him and outflanks them or stabs them in the back. Finally he makes a sycophantic but ultimately devastating beeline towards the source of power (one thinks of Hitler and Hindenburg, but also of the irrepressible Eve Harrington in All About Eve).

Psychopaths necessarily have victims, and Hare's drive to expose the "subcriminal" ones in our midst is at least partly personal. He speaks of an old college friend, now gravely ill, who lost $500,000 in a mortgage scam to a white-collar crook who got off with a $100,000 fine and a six-month trading ban. Society still labels such people rogues at worst. Hare calls them natural- born predators.

There is a difficulty approaching all this from outside academe: it can seem as if the experts are using jargon to force a thousand shades of grey - for there are surely at least that many degrees of psychopathy - into convenient boxes for personnel managers, employment tribunals and courts.

Babiak certainly counsels caution. Being psychopathic is not a sin, let alone a ground on its own for dismissal. But underpinning the PCL-R is hard science, hard to ignore. Before he published it, Hare performed two now-famous studies which suggest that psychopaths really are different from the rest of us. In the first, subjects were told to watch a timer counting down to zero, at which point they felt a harmless but painful electric shock. Non-psychopaths showed mounting anxiety and fear. Psychopaths didn't even sweat.

In the second, the two groups had their brain activity and response time measured when asked to react to groups of letters, some forming words, some not. Words such as rape and cancer triggered mental jolts in nonpsychopaths. In psychopaths they triggered precisely nothing.

That research is decades old now. The man behind it, instead of retiring, tours the world helping to nail the psychopaths among us and trying to make sure that his instruments are not misused.

Part of his mission is to stay serious. He won't appear on Oprah, and he won't name names. Instead, when he sees someone in the news he thinks might be a psychopath, he says: "I'd sure as hell like to study this guy."

Gayle in MD
07-18-2006, 01:07 PM
"it can seem as if the experts are using jargon to force a thousand shades of grey - for there are surely at least that many degrees of psychopathy - into convenient boxes for personnel managers, employment tribunals and courts."

"When the structure's not there, when charisma is extremely important and style wins over substance, and one person ends up with three or four hundred million pounds in an offshore bank account, I start to get suspicious. And when the whole thing breaks and people are losing their pensions and livelihoods, these people give nothing back."


"Think what happened in the former Soviet Union and the former Yugoslavia. The old rules went by the board. Structure vanished and all the ethnic tension that had been held in check by central government began to emerge. It was the perfect set-up for an opportunist, a thug or a psychopath to enter and take over."


These three paragraphs describe exactly what we're seeing in this administration! Talk about Godless!

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
07-18-2006, 01:47 PM
Ted Bundy was also good looking and charming......and a psychopath
You know, if the lighting is just right, GWB isn't all that bad looking either

Fran Crimi
07-18-2006, 01:59 PM
Summer reading assignment:

Harry Potter and the Sorcer's Stone

Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince

Harry Potter and ??? to be announced 2007


These books will go down in history as among the most famous of all time. And to think...we were here live when they were written.

Fran

Gayle in MD
07-18-2006, 02:02 PM
I was thinking about Ted Bundy and Scott Peterson when I was reading your post.


'GWB isn't all that bad looking either'

Surely, you're kidding! That crooked, saggy mouth, those beady little eyes, that drooping left side of his face, that phoney, arms held a-stray, he-man walk, those bow legs, he looks just like a chimp! Only, as someone pointed out...chimps look more intelligent!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

ceebee
07-18-2006, 03:28 PM
as a citizen & patriot of the United States, I ask myself what can my fellow countryman & I can do about the "THEFT of America".

Since the vote isn't pure anymore and not a true reflection, then we as citizens are in peril.

It is obvious to me that our theiving, coniving leaders have stolen more than America, the citizens now have a large debt too.

DickLeonard
07-19-2006, 04:52 AM
Fran I had given up reading novels but my granddaughters devour Harry Potter. I will have to borrow their editions.####

Gayle in MD
07-19-2006, 05:10 AM
Can anyone deny the obvious passing of the mantle from Bush Sr. to Jr.? These atrocities could never be pulled off if Americans would read, research, and compile factual information instead of jumping in line for the kill. We all pay for the overwhelming ignorance of our fellow Americans who fail to question, and attack those who have, and do....
These paragraphs from your link are chilling!


"In the case of George Bush, as many who have known him personally have noted, the network looms much larger than George's own character and will. The reader will search in vain for strong principled commitments in George Bush's personality; the most that will be found are a series of characteristic obsessions, of which the most durable are race, vanity, personal ambition, and settling scores with adversaries. What emerges by contrast is the decisive importance of Bush's network of connections. His response to the Gulf crisis of 1991 will be largely predetermined, not by any great flashes of geopolitical insight, but rather by his connections to the British oligarchy, to Kissinger, to Israeli and Zionist circles, to Texas oilmen in his fundraising base, to the Saudi Arabian and Kuwaiti royal houses. If the question is one of finance, then the opinions of J. Hugh Liedtke, Henry Kravis, Robert Mosbacher, T. Boone Pickens, Nicholas Brady, James Baker III and the City of London will be decisive. If covert operations and dirty tricks are on the agenda, then there is a whole stable of CIA old boys with whom he will consult, and so on down the line. During much of 1989, despite his control over the presidency, Bush appeared as a weak and passive executive waiting for his networks to show him what it was he was supposed to do. When German reunification and the crumbling of the Soviet empire spurred those --primarily British- networks into action, Bush was suddenly capable of violent and daring adventures. As his battle for a second term approaches, Bush may be showing increasing signs of a rage-driven self-starter capability, especially when it comes to starting new wars designed to secure his re-election.

Biography has its own inherent discipline: it must be concerned with the life of its protagonist, and cannot stray too far away. In no way has it been our intention to offer an account of American history during the lifetime of George Bush. The present study nevertheless reflects many aspects of that recent history of US decline. It will be noted that Bush has succeeded in proportion as the country has failed, and that Bush's advancement has proceeded pari passu with the degradation of the national stage upon which he has operated and which he has come to dominate. At various phases in his career, Bush has come into conflict with persons that were intellectually and morally superior to him. One such was Senator Yarborough, and another was Senator Frank Church. Our study will be found to catalogue the constant decline in the qualities of Bush's adversaries as human types until the 1980's, by which time his opponents, as in the case of Al Haig, are no better than Bush himself.

As for the political relevance of our project, we think that it is very real. During the Gulf crisis, it would have been important for the public to know more about Bush's business dealings with the Royal Family of Kuwait. During the 1992 presidential campaign, as Wall Street's recent crop of junk-bond assisted leveraged buyouts line up at the entrance to bankruptcy court, and state workers all across the United States are informed that the retirement pensions they had been promised will never be paid, the relations between George Bush and Henry Kravis will surely constitute an explosive political issue. Similarly, once Bush's British and Kissingerian pedigree is recognized, the methods he is likely to pursue in regard to situations such as the planned Romanian-style overthrow of the Castro regime in Cuba, or the provocation of a splendid little nuclear war involving North Korea, or of a new Indo-Pakistani war, will hardly be mysterious."


This is what our troops are dying for, they are dying to make the wealthy even more wealthy, and the poor, and opressed even more vulnerable to the powerful.

Bush and Cheney have trippled their wealth, but let's not distract their followers from their spelling issues!

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
07-19-2006, 06:21 AM
Wolfdancer I found a 3 lined paragaph in chapter 3 about Harry Truman believing in the Constitution and the secret Intelligence looking like the Nazi's Gestapos.

Shades of Today. Scarry reading.####