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View Full Version : Ebay - 1945 BRUNSWICK 9FT CENTENNIAL



cuekev
07-18-2006, 11:13 AM
Just to let my fellow forum users get first crack. Located in Orlando. http://cgi.ebay.com/1945-BRUNSWICK-9FT-CENTENNIAL-VINTAGE-POOL-TABLE-LOOK_W0QQitemZ180008679400QQihZ008QQcategoryZ21213 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Now if something decent would come up in Michigan!!

Kevin

Joe Marra
07-18-2006, 12:59 PM
Isn't that a Sportsking?

ceebee
07-18-2006, 02:48 PM
That is a nice Centennial. Those tables played so well.

SnakebyteXX
07-18-2006, 04:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> That is a nice Centennial. Those tables played so well. <hr /></blockquote>

Brunswick introduced both the Centennial and the Anniversary models in 1945. It was the end of WWII and co-incidentally the 100th anniversary of the company. Aluminum wasn't just 'scarce' during the War it was restricted for military use only. 1945 was the first year that it could once again be used in commercial production.

Although at first glance it would seem that Brunswick went a little over board with the aluminum skirts and aluminum base on the Cenennial but it's art deco design has withstood the test of time. With their rosewood rails, mahogany wrapped legs and aluminum 'dress' - They're a knock your socks off just plain beautiful table.

It's doubtful that the table in the eBay ad was built in 1945. Because the Centennials that were built that year lacked the cross brace that you see pictured. The one that connects the two massive legs. Brunswick added the cross brace after many of the earliest models (1945) sagged under the weight of the inadequately supported three piece one inch thick slate bed causing the slates to warp. The aluminum wrapping on the base of the legs was intended to withstand frequent moppings as in those days linoleum floors were common and regular contact with a wet mop was part of the drill. Anniversary's also have a similar (but less ornate) wrap around the base of their legs and for the same reason.

However it's clear that this is indeed one of the earlier model Centennials because of among other things the rosewood rails and the brass name plate. I've only seen this style name plate on models built from 1945 to the early '50's.

One significant flaw in the Centennials (and in fact the majority of Brunswick tables manufactured from post WWII until about 1960) involved their choice of a poor quality slate mined from their Pennsylvania quarry. Known as 'Pennsylvania ribbon slate' the slate has carbonaceous ribbons that run through it. These ribbons consist of a much weaker material and are prone to degrade over time due to tempurature and humidity variations. Almost all those old slates eventually require some sort of resurfacing to return them to their original level playing field quality.

The Centennial model was produced from 1945 to approximately 1960 when it was replaced in the company line by the also renowned Gold Crown line. The Anniversary model continued in production until the early 1970's.

Even with their flaws these old tables (Centennials, Anniversary's and Gold Crown I's and II's) represent some of the finest playing tables ever built by Brunswick and can compete favorably with some of the best built tables made today.

In addition, because of their age and rarity, Centennials have become collectors items. They have been increasing in value over the past few years and I fully expect that trend to continue. One gentleman I know involved in Centennial restorations has sold several fully restored nine foot Centennials for over twenty thousand dollars apiece.

On the face of it the table in this ad appears to be a winner. Tables like this one can still be picked up off eBay every once in a while for between $3500 and five grand (average) and most of the time they're worth every penny.

Buyer beware: Centennials with broken or missing aluminum parts are worth significantly less. Those parts are irreplaceable.

Hope this helps.

Snake

Barbara
07-18-2006, 05:16 PM
Wow Snake!! Thanks for the history lesson!! Good stuff to know!! Two thumbs up!!

Barbara

Scott Lee
07-18-2006, 11:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> One gentleman I know involved in Centennial restorations has sold several fully restored nine foot Centennials for over twenty thousand dollars apiece.



Buyer beware: Centennials with broken or missing aluminum parts are worth significantly less. Those parts are irreplaceable.


Snake<hr /></blockquote>

SnakebyteXX...Are you talking about George Michaels?

As far as missing parts...that depends...we had the cast aluminum end caps remanufactured, and they turned out perfectly.

Scott Lee

Scott Lee
07-18-2006, 11:26 PM
Kevin...It's not a Brunswick, but there's a very nice AMF Pro being advertised for sale for $1000 in Michigan. It's a player's personal table that he must liquidate immediately. Look for it on AzBilliards.com. According to the poster, it has to be gone in about a week or so.

Scott Lee

Brian in VA
07-19-2006, 05:04 AM
Quote SnakebyteXX "The Anniversary model continued in production until the early 1970's."

According to the Brunswick web site, the Anniversary was only manufactured until 1964.

I've been fortunate enough to snag an Anniversary for my new pool room at home and I can't wait to ge it set up. It's a great table.

Brian in VA - owner of a table older than himself!

DickLeonard
07-19-2006, 05:10 AM
Barbara I had tried to research my Collender table with Brunswick and was told that they had stored all of their old adv material in West Virginia and all was lost with the flood of 19??.

The other thing they were rumored to have done was but I never heard of it being fact was taking old tables in trade and then destroying the old tables.####

SnakebyteXX
07-19-2006, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> One gentleman I know involved in Centennial restorations has sold several fully restored nine foot Centennials for over twenty thousand dollars apiece.



Buyer beware: Centennials with broken or missing aluminum parts are worth significantly less. Those parts are irreplaceable.


Snake<hr /></blockquote>

SnakebyteXX...Are you talking about George Michaels?

<font color="blue">Nope. </font color>

As far as missing parts...that depends...we had the cast aluminum end caps remanufactured, and they turned out perfectly.

<font color="blue">That's good to know. Your average table shopper looking for a 'fixer upper' Centennial with broken corner castings might look for a long time before finding someone like you to help them out. This is one of the best reasons I can think of for visiting this forum. Thanks for the heads up. </font color>

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

SnakebyteXX
07-19-2006, 09:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Brian in VA:</font><hr> Quote SnakebyteXX "The Anniversary model continued in production until the early 1970's."

According to the Brunswick web site, the Anniversary was only manufactured until 1964.

<font color="blue">I'm not going to go on record here as challenging the authority of Brunswick. Theoretically, they SHOULD know when they manufactured a particular older table and when they quit. However, I was told by a Brunswick rep that they lost many of their records in a huge fire/flood quite some time ago and that in some cases, lacking that documentation, they couldn't be entirely sure of some dates and times.

My source for the early seventies end of the Anniversary line mentioned that he had Brunsick catalogues from that era that still offered the tables for sale. This wouldn't automatically indicate that Brunswick was still manufacturing the tables at that time. It could be that they were still selling them from back inventory and had indeed ceased production in 64. </font color>

I've been fortunate enough to snag an Anniversary for my new pool room at home and I can't wait to ge it set up. It's a great table.

<font color="blue">I bought one for my son a few years ago. They are fabulous tables indeed. Again, timeless art deco styling with solid manufacturing. The Anni's I've seen were built like tanks and (once they were brought up to current standards a la cushion replacement etc.) played like a dream.

A couple of things to consider when home table shopping are - "what do I want from my 'new' table?" and "If and when the time comes that I must let this table go - whose going to want to buy it and will I be able to get some or most of my $ back?".

Because they tend to be quite large and extra heavy home Pool tables can quickly go from wonderful playthings to white elephants. If you grow tired of the game (heaven forbid!) you can't just shove your table under the bed or into a closet and forget about it like that super ab machine you paid too much for and will never use again.

Older tables like the Centennial and Anniversary models have both beauty and playability as well as a proven track record for quality. If one is willing to spend the time searching for a good quality table of this type the dividends can be well worth the effort. And if the time ever comes that you must let go of your prized possession you may be pleased to find that there will be a line of potential buyers looking to take it off your hands.

Keep in mind, these tables are classics - they aren't making them anymore - as time goes by there will be fewer and fewer of them around. Those that are will only become more desireable as time goes by. </font color>

Brian in VA - owner of a table older than himself!

<font color="blue">That's a cool thing. Think about how many games have been played on your table and all the fun that it's brought into people's lives since it was first built. Neat stuff. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

SnakebyteXX
07-19-2006, 10:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Barbara I had tried to research my Collender table with Brunswick and was told that they had stored all of their old adv material in West Virginia and all was lost with the flood of 19??.

<font color="blue">Yep, I heard about the loss of records too. Also problematic is the fact that Brunswick isn't the player that it once was in the pool table side of things. They aren't quite as focused on digging up the data as they might be (IMO of course.). I found that talking to old time table restorers and pool hall owers (like Mark Griffen of BCA fame - who once owned seven Centennials back in his Alaskan pool hall days) brought me some valuable bits and pieces of useful information (like the business about the ribbon slate - Mark Griffen confirmed it but, wonder of wonders - Brunswick had NEVER heard of the problem (go figure). </font color>

The other thing they were rumored to have done was but I never heard of it being fact was taking old tables in trade and then destroying the old tables.####

<font color="blue">I heard that as well but have never been able to confirm it. At one point in time I tried to contact Mike Shamos for any information that he might have on Brunswick table history but I was unable to connect with him.

According to my understanding Mike has the worlds largest collection of pool memorabilia and is one of the preimminent experts on pool history because of his devotion to the game. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

A couple of old Brunswick catalogue covers:

1945 - the year they fist introduced the Centennial and Anniversary tables.

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/692/1945brunswickcatalogue1nx8.jpg

1946 - notice that the cover shot shows a Cent without the cross beam tieing the legs together?

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/6553/brunswickcatalogue1946hw3.jpg

Hope this helps.

Snake

Brian in VA
07-19-2006, 01:29 PM
SnakebyteXX

You bring up good points I hadn't considered about when they stopped. Thanks! I'm also a fan of Gibson Guitars and their records are even more jumbled than Brunswick's so I know what you mean. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The pool room I began playing in, about 40 years ago, had Anniversaries in it and I always associated the look of that table with serious play. When I finally got the go ahead for a table, actually my wife said she wanted me to have a home table because she knows how much I love the game, I knew exactly what I wanted. I've got about another month to go before the room is finished and I can't wait to break the first rack! I only wish I could find out the history of this actual table. Perhaps I shoud make one up! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Brian in VA

DickLeonard
07-21-2006, 05:24 AM
Joe Marra Sport Kings had wooden sides with resembling plywood. Here is a site with plenty of pooltable history
Rebcobilliards.com.####

DickLeonard
07-21-2006, 05:35 AM
Snakebyttexx. We both got pretty much the same info. It just dawned on me I ran my first 100 balls run on a Centennial. Joe Canton's poolroom had 8 centennials and 7 older Brunswicks.

The wide rails was the greatest improvement in pool, the smaller rails and the bolts going into the side of the slates made uniform tables impossible. The bolts going into the slate and drawing down the rails made thousands of tables all uniform within a few degrees of each other.####

SnakebyteXX
07-21-2006, 07:02 AM
Dick,

There's still a few of these old jewels in play. Check out this blast from the past at the still open 'Cue Ball' pool hall up in Salem, Oregon.
http://www.thecueball.com/images/PoolRoom2.jpg
http://www.thecueball.com/images/PoolRoom1.jpg


Pretty amazing to see this many old Cents and Anni's still in daily use even after all these years.

More trivia: Willie Mosconi's classic little Red Book (Willie Mosconi on Pocket Billiards) shows a number of his shots set up on a Centennial table.

Ah... the good old days.

Snake

DickLeonard
07-23-2006, 02:24 PM
Snakebytexx Joe Canton's room had the three cue racks that rotated in the Large Cue Rack made especially for the Centennial tables.####