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Harold Acosta
07-18-2006, 02:27 PM
Anyone with an old 128 tournament chart in pdf format?

I'm searching for the chart that was used before they came up with listing all 128 players in numerical order.

Dave was always of great help but he is no longer with us and his website is no longer working.

All I need is the numbering sequence or email to acostaharold@hotmail.com

SPetty
07-18-2006, 02:44 PM
Harold, I think Dave's went only to 64. Please check your email...

Terry
07-18-2006, 02:53 PM
Hi Harold, Try this.http://www.playpool.com/anonftp/pub/tournament_charts/playpool128de.pdf

wolfdancer
07-18-2006, 03:48 PM
Harold, check this out....I haven't tried it though
web page (http://www.8ball.org/tournament_charts.htm)

Bob_Jewett
07-18-2006, 04:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Harold Acosta:</font><hr> Anyone with an old 128 tournament chart in pdf format?

I'm searching for the chart that was used before they came up with listing all 128 players in numerical order.... <hr /></blockquote>
Hi Harold,

Do you mean a chart with the numbers that will get the byes in the right order? It looks like none of the suggested charts does that. Here is the pairing order that will get the byes in the right places if they are put in the highest spots.

(For those not familiar with the problem of where to put the byes in an elimination chart (or where to put the seeds), see the article at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2001-12.pdf )

1 128
64 65
33 96
32 97
17 112
48 81
49 80
16 113
9 120
56 73
41 88
24 105
25 104
40 89
57 72
8 121
5 124
60 69
37 92
28 101
21 108
44 85
53 76
12 117
13 116
52 77
45 84
20 109
29 100
36 93
61 68
4 125
3 126
62 67
35 94
30 99
19 110
46 83
51 78
14 115
11 118
54 75
43 86
22 107
27 102
38 91
59 70
6 123
7 122
58 71
39 90
26 103
23 106
42 87
55 74
10 119
15 114
50 79
47 82
18 111
31 98
34 95
63 66
2 127

Harold Acosta
07-18-2006, 05:24 PM
Thanks SPetty, I got that one precisely from Dave.

Harold Acosta
07-18-2006, 05:28 PM
Thanks but everyone seems to have the new format. This is not the one I'm looking for. Again thanks for your effort.

Harold Acosta
07-18-2006, 05:30 PM
Thanks for your response.....but this is not the one......

Harold Acosta
07-18-2006, 05:51 PM
Thanks Bob:

I was under the impression that all manual flow charts had all the odd numbers in top brackets, with the even numbers at the bottom brackets. This is true with brackets for 16, 32 and 64 players.

For 128, I had figured it would be one odd bracket, followed by one even bracket, another odd bracket with a final even bracket. Don't ask me where I got this idea, I just thought it was that way....

Was it ever like I'm saying?

On a 64 player bracket it goes like this
1-33, 17-49, 9-41, 25-57...
2-34, 18-50, 10-42, 26-58...

So I figured that in a 128 bracket it would have started like this:

1-65
2-66
3-67
4-68
5-69
6-70
7-71

but I didn't know how to spread these numbers out....

I had found the spread-out (BD Archives) you posted here but did not seem right and I found your article in the internet, but was a little puzzled by it.

Anyway, I will try this spread-out to see what happens...but can you shed some more light on how these numbers and the order came about?.....

I'll have to put them in this order, right?

1 with 128
64 with 65
33 with 96
32 with 97
17 with 112......

Bob_Jewett
07-19-2006, 10:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Harold Acosta:</font><hr> ... Anyway, I will try this spread-out to see what happens...but can you shed some more light on how these numbers and the order came about?.....

I'll have to put them in this order, right?

1 with 128
64 with 65
33 with 96
32 with 97
17 with 112......


<hr /></blockquote>
Yes. This is the standard seeding order. Every match sums to 129, which is one more than the number of players. Further, if you remove all players above 64, the remaining matches will add to 65, one more than the number of players. Also, if byes go into the highest numbers, they will be evenly spread on the chart.

There are several ways to generate such a list of numbers. The way I do it is to start from the chart given in the Billiards Digest article and simply pair each number with a higher number that will give the right sum. There is a best way to arrange the resulting pairs so that the top seeds are on the outsides of the branches of the "tree."

If you need a 64-player list, just take the 128 list and cross off the largest 64 numbers. And so on for smaller charts. Always remove exactly half of the entries when making the chart smaller, and double when making the chart larger.

Snapshot9
07-20-2006, 10:22 AM
Just a little trivia - But isn't it interesting to note that tournament brackets are based along the same lines as computers are based on, 8 bits make 1 byte, so if you know binary code and numbers, it correlates to the numbers used in tournament charts ...
Now, what was the largest all the way double elimination tournament ever held? and where?

Bob_Jewett
07-20-2006, 11:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snapshot9:</font><hr> ... Now, what was the largest all the way double elimination tournament ever held? and where? <hr /></blockquote>
I know a 128-player DE chart was used in the SF Open in 1980. The Richie Florence events in Lake Tahoe might have had 200+ players, but I vaguely recall that they were split onto two charts.

Large charts get hard to use. I think a better solution is to work in smaller groups in the early rounds, such as the round-robin format of the WPC and the IPT.

pooltchr
07-20-2006, 11:40 AM
I played in a Viking national championship event in Lexington KY a few years ago that had over 220 players if I recall correctly.
Steve