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Qtec
07-19-2006, 03:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Bush poised to defy party with veto on stem cell research bill
President compared to those who jailed Galileo
Bill 'would force taxpayers to fund destruction of life'

Oliver Burkeman in New York and Ian Sample
Wednesday July 19, 2006

Guardian

George Bush was poised today to overrule senior Republicans, along with the vast majority of Americans, by using his presidential veto for the first time to defeat a bill on stem cell research.
The bill would expand US government funding to include embryos which did not exist prior to August 2001, when Mr Bush announced a moratorium. Scientists working in the field say newer stem cell lines are essential to realise the promise of a cure for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, diabetes, and some cancers.

But the president is using his first veto - having assented to 1,116 other laws passed by Congress during his time in office - in a high-stakes strategy that is likely to appeal to religious conservatives but risks splitting his party in advance of November's midterm elections.

The Senate passed the bill yesterday by 63 votes to 37 after two days of frequently emotional debate, during which Republicans and Democrats alike related personal stories of family illness that might have been avoided had stem cell research been sufficiently advanced.

Bill Frist, the majority leader, backs the bill and Arlen Specter, another senior Republican, said history would liken Mr Bush to those who imprisoned Galileo and scoffed at the idea of electricity, and who look "absolutely ridiculous" today.

"A century from now, people will look back in wonderment at how there could be any doubt about using stem cells to save lives and save human suffering," Mr Specter said. He warned that Mr Bush might also get a call from Nancy Reagan, a campaigner for the legislation before and after her husband's death in 2004 from Alzheimer's-related complications.

The leading Senate opponent of the bill, Sam Brownback, said it would "allow the stronger to take advantage of the weaker". It was "immoral to destroy the youngest of human lives for research purposes," he said, pointing out that Americans can be sentenced to two years in prison for destroying certain rare bird eggs, whereas "taxpayer dollars are used to destroy a human at the same phase of life".

A White House statement argued that the bill "would compel all American taxpayers to pay for research that relies on the intentional destruction of human embryos for the derivation of stem cells".

The bill's enemies must contend with the fact that the 400,000 embryos in question - tiny clumps of cells, invisible to the naked eye - already exist, frozen in fertility clinics across the country, and are likely to be destroyed.

Some Christian groups have been instrumental in setting up schemes in which adoptive mothers carry embryos unused by fertility clinics to full term, and Mr Brownback brought three such children - so-called snowflake babies - to Capitol Hill to support his argument. One had made a drawing of an embryo asking: "Are you going to kill me?"

Supporters of stem-cell research had been encouraged by hints that Mr Bush might be swayed by science and by polls showing that 75% of Americans support their position. But Sean Tipton, president of the Washington-based Coalition for the Advancement of Medical Research, said it was now clear that Mr Bush's 2001 moratorium had not been a compromise, but "a gift to the right-to-life community".

The pre-2001 cell lines are considered to have too many contaminations and abnormalities to be ideal for exploiting the potential of stem cells, which are capable of growing into any type of human tissue.

Two other bills were expected to pass easily: one encouraging research on stem-cells obtained from other sources; and one making "embryo farming" illegal. "Then the president can say 'I'm for stem-cell research, just not that kind," Mr Tipton said. A two-thirds majority is needed in both the House and Senate in order to override the veto. The Senate vote missed that mark by four votes, and the House of Representatives, due to vote on the policy soon, was expected to miss it too.

<hr /></blockquote>

This seems to me to be a very cruel way to pander to the Christian Rightwing.
The result will be other countries making advancments in this field and eventually developing cures. Stem cell treatment will become a cure for the rich and denied to the average US citizen.
If GW was sick and could only be cured with Stem cell teatment, would he refuse it? Would anybody?

These emryo's can't even be seen by the human eye. They are going to be throw away when they could be used to change peoples lives for the better. I for one couldn't look a guy in a wheelchair and deny him the chance to walk again. I don't think i've got that right.

Q

Gayle in MD
07-19-2006, 04:13 AM
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- More than 14,000 civilians have been killed in Iraq in the first half of this year, an ominous figure reflecting the fact that "killings, kidnappings and torture remain widespread" in the war-torn country, a United Nations report says.

Killings of civilians are on "an upward trend," with more than 5,800 deaths and more than 5,700 injuries reported in May and June alone, it says.

The report, a bimonthly document produced by the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq, covers May and June, and includes chilling casualty figures and ugly anecdotes from the insurgent and sectarian warfare that continues to rage despite the establishment of a national unity government and a security crackdown in Baghdad.

The report lists examples of bloody suicide bombs aimed at mosques, attacks on laborers, the recovery of slain bodies, the assassinations of judges, the killings of prisoners, the targeting of clergy -- all incidents dutifully reported by media over these three-plus years of chaos in the streets.

The U.N. agency says it has been made aware since last year of the targeting of homosexuals, "increasingly threatened and extra-judicially executed by militias and 'death squads' because of their sexual orientation."

The intolerance propelling the anti-gay prejudice extends to ethnic and religious minorities and others whose manner of dress doesn't meet the standards of religious extremists.

How can Bush go all out to prevent medical science from advancing cures for all kinds of human ailments, drawing the line over the use of a thimble full of cells, and at the same time, was determined to cause the death and destruction to so many thousands of innocent people for the sake of monetary goals? Does anyone believe that he launched this illegal war so that Iraqis could vote? I don't.

I hope that he lives a long long life, and has to face up to the awesome criticism and devastatingly critical analysis of his policies which historians will surely exact. He will be a laughing stock, even more so than he is today!

Gayle in Md....astounded daily by the destruction which organized religion creates in the world!

moblsv
07-19-2006, 07:01 AM
List of Votes against HR 810:

* Allard (R-CO)
* Allen (R-VA)
* Bond (R-MO)
* Brownback (R-KS)
* Bunning (R-KY)
* Burns (R-MT)
* Chambliss (R-GA)
* Coburn (R-OK)
* Coleman (R-MN)
* Cornyn (R-TX)
* Craig (R-ID)
* Crapo (R-ID)
* DeMint (R-SC)
* DeWine (R-OH)
* Dole (R-NC)
* Domenici (R-NM)
* Ensign (R-NV)
* Enzi (R-WY)
* Graham (R-SC)
* Grassley (R-IA)
* Hagel (R-NE)
* Inhofe (R-OK)
* Isakson (R-GA)
* Kyl (R-AZ)
* Martinez (R-FL)
* McConnell (R-KY)
* Nelson (D-NE)
* Roberts (R-KS)
* Santorum (R-PA)
* Sessions (R-AL)
* Shelby (R-AL)
* Sununu (R-NH)
* Talent (R-MO)
* Thomas (R-WY)
* Thune (R-SD)
* Vitter (R-LA)
* Voinovich (R-OH)

wolfdancer
07-19-2006, 09:31 AM
You would think that a topic like this would not be subject to partisan politics. Do none of these naysayers know anyone with a disease or injury that might someday be cured thru this research?...or are their quasi-religious tenets so strong?

Sid_Vicious
07-19-2006, 09:38 AM
One thing about these afflictions...they don't discriminate between wealth and poverty, as does the armed forces ranks and fighting a winless war. Wonder what Nancy Reagan thinks about this issue today???sid

Qtec
07-19-2006, 06:41 PM
This is an easy way to show solidarity with the CHRIS Right because GW was going to veto it anyway. Now they can all say they are pro-life.
Personally I do think there are ethical issues that should be debated in open forum, but they should be properly debated and facts should be presented for discussion. Not the crap the Rove spouts. YUK.
Just like with Global warming[ it is hot isn't it eg8r /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif] the Govt knows better than its own experts. What arrogance.

Q ...BTW..........Palme is suing! eg8r must be having fits by now! LOL
Oh Boy. Will it be quashed on the grouds of Nat Sec? [ OK.I,m off topic....geez...... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif]

eg8r
07-19-2006, 08:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
it is hot isn't it eg8r <hr /></blockquote> Isn't that exactly what Gore was trying to tell the kind people of New York on that snowy day in New York? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

eg8r
07-19-2006, 08:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The result will be other countries making advancments in this field and eventually developing cures. Stem cell treatment will become a cure for the rich and denied to the average US citizen. <hr /></blockquote> This is a complete load of bull, the sad part is you actually believe it. Just so you don't go crying yourself to sleep over an unproven science that is not going to be US government funded, the private sector is perfectly able and particularly well-funded to continue the research.

I am sorry, but the libs on here want everything their way. If Bush was to sign this bill how many of you whiners would have posted blasting him for spending more money which we already don't have? Would Gayle be spouting off about how Bush is stealing from her grandchildren's mouths by funding this? The answer is NO. The whining left want to complain about Bush spending and they want to complain when he does not spend. You want it both ways. Sorry, W does not pander to your murderous whims on this one.

eg8r

bigman
07-19-2006, 08:26 PM
Democrats kill babies; you can't criticize the president for stepping up for morality. There is no room for debate. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
Bible, Genesis ix. 6. We have a god fearing president. It is better for a man to follow God than follow the massess, especially if the masses are sinners ( i.e. democrats .)

It is unfortunate that God gave us the great game of pool, and there are sick people out their tarnishing the felt with baby embryos. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

nAz
07-19-2006, 09:09 PM
LOL! your an A-hole! welcome to the board. can't wait till Gayle rips you a new one. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r
07-20-2006, 04:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
LOL! your an A-hole! welcome to the board. <hr /></blockquote> LOL, pretty funny. How was your trip to Florida?

eg8r

pooltchr
07-20-2006, 06:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigman:</font><hr> Democrats kill babies; you can't criticize the president for stepping up for morality. There is no room for debate. Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
Bible, Genesis ix. 6. We have a god fearing president. It is better for a man to follow God than follow the massess, especially if the masses are sinners ( i.e. democrats .)

It is unfortunate that God gave us the great game of pool, and there are sick people out their tarnishing the felt with baby embryos. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Oh oh! I can imagine Gayle foaming at the mouth over the chance to answer this one! This is going to be fun! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
07-20-2006, 07:16 AM
You're really ill. Bush doesn't shed the blood of men? BWA HA HA HA. Republicans don't get abortions? AH HA HA HA, ask Newt, he paid for his wife's abortion with his personal check! Saved the world from another idiot just like him, too dumb to pay cash!

You, like all Repiglicans, spout off your religious BS, while defending liars who lie in order to have a good excuse to kill thousands, while making billions, but you're too damn dumb to follow the money long enough to learn who is making money off the deaths of innocent people. You stand back and paint Democratic War Heros as being cowards, while the rest of us count deferments by Chicken Hawks, like Cheney, who take seven to protect himself from ever seeing a battlefield! And Bush, who's daddy hides him away down south, to keep him from harm's way, while he snorts himself into oblivian, and can't show up for his drug tests. You pull out all your BS Christian defence for Bush, while the rest of us count all the people he put to death in Texas, Iraq, Afghanistan. You just keep on sucking up all the Repiglican lies, and blaming all the innocent people who have died because of the LIAR in the Whitehouse on Clinton's BJ, don't bother counting up all the money the right wing elitists are making off this war. Don't bother counting up all their DWI's, and Arab handouts for their failed oil businesses. Don't bother tallying up all the lies, or noticing all the failed, unrealistic predictions by Cheney, Bush, Rice, and Rumsfeld, or taking any account of the laws they break, their complete incompetence, their failed policies, their unconstitutional, illegal actions. Just make damn sure that none of our tax dollars go to feeding hungry children, or helping battered women, or saving the environment, or using intellectual negotiations, and communication, or expert intelligence, in the interest of avoiding the hell of war, and the un-necessary killing of innocents. As long as there is blood flowing in the streets of many countries, and Halliburton-Bush-Cheney-Wolfowitz- are laughing all the way to the bank, while they sell out America to their foriegn Arab Princes, and protect the bin Ladens, and the Saudi's from any harm, I'm sure that all you God fearing religious nuts will be happy. bin Laden is happy. Just don't try to dictate your sick ignorant views on the rest of us, and what women can do with their own bodies, while all you religious nuts are taking bribes, abusing women, having sex with children, and blowing your male friends.

Anybody who could call George Bush, God fearing, isn't playing with a full deck! Stepping up morality? AH HA HA HA...yeah, right, he thinks he's a "BIGMAN" too. He didn't follow GOD"S PLAN, when he sent Laura in for fertility hormones. Guess all that cocaine made his sperm count low!

Gayle in Md. Just what we needed here, yet another right wing religious fanatic, with his own God Fearing version of the truth, vacant of scientific study, and dedicated to dictate his sick views on the rest of the country.

pooltchr
07-20-2006, 08:39 AM
I knew it was going to be fun! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
We actually have someone here that is as far to the right as Gayle is to the left!
BOMBS AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL

Gayle in MD
07-20-2006, 09:03 AM
They can't go beyond the repiglican talking points, it's against their religion! Hey, this new jerk, the BIGMAN, lists his hobby as "Searching for evidence of the flood" BWA HA HA HA,, (Yeah, I checked out his profile to see what part of the country he is from, he doesn't list it, but I can assure you now, he is south of the border!) Gee, maybe he'll find the ark, or talk to a man living inside a whale! How can we expect them to put their minds on cures for the afflictions of mankind, or those who live life paralized in wheelchairs, when they're stuck on Big Bird, Ann coulter, and the Teletubbies?

The God fearing goose-steppers are unable to think for themselves! Maybe they can pary our way out of Iraq!

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
07-20-2006, 09:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I knew it was going to be fun! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif<hr /></blockquote> LOL, no kidding. When I logged on late last night and saw his posts I could not wait till Ann Coulter, oops, I mean Gayle read them. Personally I think it is an alt nick but who cares, he is so far out there if he keeps going he might meet Gayle on the other side. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

pooltchr
07-20-2006, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> what part of the country he is from, he doesn't list it, but I can assure you now, he is south of the border!) Gee, maybe he'll find the ark, or talk to a man living inside a whale! How can we expect them to put their minds on cures for the afflictions of mankind, or those who live life paralized in wheelchairs, when they're stuck on Big Bird, Ann coulter, and the Teletubbies?

The God fearing goose-steppers are unable to think for themselves! Maybe they can pary our way out of Iraq!

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle,
not only are you over the edge, but your prejudice is really starting to come out as well. I guess nobody from the south could possibly be as well educated as you. You are a two faced lunatic with no ability whatsoever to tolerate anyone who doesn't agree with your views on the world!
I actually feel sorry for you.

wolfdancer
07-20-2006, 10:47 AM
Q, while some folks here are applauding the failure of this bill....it was passed originally by a majority vote....then vetoed....by an arrogant President.
In the end partisan politics prevailed....or was it the supposed religious beliefs of the "corruptio optimi pessima" Bush over medical science?
Hard to believe that it came down to a Republican belief over the sanctity of an embryo, as opposed to a Democratic belief in scientific research. I never knew the parties were so evenly divided along these lines.
Maybe the party that has further enriched Haliburton, was trying to save some $$

bigman
07-20-2006, 07:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dodo bird in MD:</font><hr> They can't go beyond the repiglican talking points, it's against their religion! Hey, this new jerk, the BIGMAN, lists his hobby as "Searching for evidence of the flood" BWA HA HA HA,, (Yeah, I checked out his profile to see what part of the country he is from, he doesn't list it, but I can assure you now, he is south of the border!) Gee, maybe he'll find the ark, or talk to a man living inside a whale! How can we expect them to put their minds on cures for the afflictions of mankind, or those who live life paralized in wheelchairs, when they're stuck on Big Bird, Ann coulter, and the Teletubbies?

The God fearing goose-steppers are unable to think for themselves! Maybe they can pary our way out of Iraq!

Dodo bird in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Dodo bird in Md. bwa ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/f/c/dem_dodo_seal.jpg

Gayle in MD
07-20-2006, 10:06 PM
You display the same bubba intellect as your Commander and Chief! JERK!