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View Full Version : "Swerve" stroke for advanced players...



Pogue
07-12-2002, 02:22 AM
I apologize if it seems that I'm posting a lot of posts, one after the other, but I HAVE been away from the board for over a year. What do you all think of advanced players using a "swerve" stroke on shots where a lot of english is needed?
What I mean by this "swerve" stroke is addressing the ball at a point closer to the center of the ball, then "swerving" your tip towards the side of the english you are trying to apply through the stroke. In my opinion, this type of stroke greatly reduces deflection, and therefore almost eliminates the need to compensate for deflection when hitting shots with a lot a sidespin. This may only work for me since I use a whippy shaft, but after practicing for an hour or so with my cue, I can get three rails off of a fairly straight in shot, but the stroke I need is so much softer than one would expect.
The Seattle road player in "Playing Off the Rail", J.D. (guy who woofed at Bucktooth in the 211) told me that Earl hits centerball almost all the time, but when he needs to force his ball around the table, that Earl "swerves" his tip. It takes practice, but I think the added benefit to an advanced player is very valuable.
Please, can I get some opinions on this? I'm not sure if everyone will know what the heck I am talking about, but I've seen some top players use this, and I just wanted to see what yoooz guys and gals thought.. Thanks for the input..

Pogue

griffith_d
07-12-2002, 06:11 AM
I have tried the "swerve" stroke and it works well,...only for close shots (for me anyways) and can really keep the cue on the CB for a longer period of time. It is kind of a "swiping" action.

I have also tried (for close shots again) a modified Masse' shot where I shoot down on the back of the ball instead of straight into it, using left or right english.

Griff

07-12-2002, 09:44 AM
I have tried this swever method as well as backhand english but although I found the results to be quite favorable I really only used them to show me where I am supposed to aim and I quickly took that information and used it to allow me to address the cb with my english already applied.... I dont think I could ever endorse changing your stroke so drastically from time to time to me this might throw off my regular stroke caused by mixed signals... but I will say it does work.

griffith_d
07-12-2002, 09:50 AM
I agree,...I have used "special" english and draw only sparingly.

Griff

phil in sofla
07-12-2002, 12:34 PM
On Bert Kinnister's Deflection video, he mentions that he's seen the technique used by a lot of top players (and he names a couple), and he says that topic is the most important he ever covered on his tapes, a real key to the 'next level.'

I am no advanced player, but I successfully use the technique to come out of the corner with high inside English when I need more on the ball than I'd usually get. Works very well, and checking the idea with one of our best local semi-pros, who co-runs the Florida tour, got confirmation from him that it was "dead accurate," meaning that the aimline was good without making any aim corrections for deflection.

We have another local down here, formerly the billiard champion of Brazil (according to an unrelated reliable third party), who uses the technique on about every shot. It makes for a goofy looking stroke, and it's hard to take anyone seriously who is ALWAYS doing that kind of stroking, since it looks SO horrible and nonstandard, but all he does is win.

TonyM
07-12-2002, 01:10 PM
Bert Kinnister has a tape on this very method. It is his "deflection tape" He claims that it was taught to him by Tony Robles. There are other great players that do this also. The main argument against it is that you can never be sure of exactly how much sidepsin you will get. What if you want 1/2 tip, or precisely 1 tip? But for many players it seems to work fine regardless of the objections.

One technical nit point though:

This technique does not eliminate the need to compensate for deflection (squirt) it IS a method of compensating for deflection. The angle created by pivoting your cue about the bridge hand is the angle required to compensate for the squirt! That is WHY the method works. It doesn't magically eliminate deflection, it compensates for it in the same way that back hand english or aim and pivot methods do.

And by the way, this method is ideally suited to a cue with a pivot point near the normal bridge length. It is not suited for low squirt sticks like the Predator or Meucci red-dot.

Tony

phil in sofla
07-12-2002, 02:04 PM
I use it with my Predator shaft, although only in the one application of coming into and out of the corner using high inside English if I need more English effect than I'd normally get using just plain high inside.

Seems to work fine for me.

07-12-2002, 04:00 PM
I often use this stroke for soft cuts where cling is a factor. The advantage is I don't have to aim off center on the cueball. I aim with center ball and then "swerve" left or right to impart some spin. Sometimes it looks like I am being "jerky" with the cue. If my opponent thinks that- well, its just another advantage for me.

07-12-2002, 08:00 PM
i have also notice, in my case anyway, that this "swerve" method applies a different kind of english than the normal way of addressing the CB. the CB, with the swerve method seems to hit the OB kind of light. it doesn't go through in as straight a path. i don't know if i'm explaining it right. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

TonyM
07-12-2002, 08:47 PM
"the CB, with the swerve method seems to hit the OB kind of light. it doesn't go through in as straight a path. i don't know if i'm explaining it right. "

I have no idea what you are talking about Arnie! Lol!

But in truth I don't think that the swerve itself can influence the behavior of the object ball at all. It might allow you to hit the cueball with less force or more or less sidespin or something like that, but it won't do anything to the object ball (except for those effects normally seen for less speed, more sidepin etc. which could also be done sans swerve).

Tony

TonyM
07-12-2002, 08:49 PM
If it works for you then great. But keep in mind, that if it does work for you, you are either not starting with the correct alignment, or you are making some kind of subconscious adjustment to make it work. On it's own, any pivoting type sidespin adjustment will favour a high squirt cue and not a low squirt cue.

But it can be "made" to work as you have stated.

Tony

07-12-2002, 10:02 PM
i THINK what i mean is that when i use the swerve method, the cb seems to glance off the ob more. so like i have this cut shot and i want to use inside english to drive the cb off two rails and come out. if i use the swerve method, the cb glances off the ob more so it hits the first rail at a different spot and doesn't come out like i wanted it to.

or maybe it's just that when i use the swerve method i don't hit the ball as i wanted to had i tried the traditional way of addressing the cb.

i think:)

phil in sofla
07-13-2002, 03:41 PM
Subconscious adjustment? Not that I'm aware of... ....oh, right! LOL!