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Fran Crimi
07-24-2006, 01:11 PM
<font color="blue"> I'd love to read the actual judicial decision. CNN here in it's reporting never mentions the extortion aspect or the socialism implications of the bill. Notice the slant on the lack of health care for Walmart employees. Sure, as if that's what the bill was all about.

Fran</font color>


Judge overturns Maryland's Wal-Mart law
Says the law, which required the retailer to spend 8% of its state payroll on medical benefits, would have hurt the company.
July 19 2006: 4:31 PM EDT


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- A federal judge in Baltimore has overturned Maryland's so-called "Wal-Mart healthcare bill," which forced the nation's biggest retailer to provide more employee health care benefits.

Judge J. Frederick Motz said the law, which required Wal-Mart to spend 8 percent of its payroll in the state on medical benefits, or pay the difference in taxes, would have hurt the company.

Shares of Wal-Mart (up $1.03 to $44.20, Charts) rose 2.5 percent in afternoon trade.

Judge Motz ruled that a 1974 federal law overruled the Maryland state law, which had been backed by labor groups.

He said it was unfair because it forced the company to handle benefits in Maryland differently than it does in other states.

The Retail Industry Leaders Association, a trade association whose members include Wal-Mart and which had challenged the law, praised the ruling.

"The decision sends a clear signal that employer health plans are governed by federal law, not a patchwork of state and local laws. It also is a clear message that similar bills under consideration in other states and municipalities violate federal law as well," Sandy Kennedy, president of the Retail Industry Leaders Association, told Reuters.

Some critics of Wal-Mart who supported the state law expressed disappointment. "This decision does not change the fact that Wal-Mart doesn't provide company health care to over half of its workers," Paul Blank, campaign director for the activist group Wake-Up Wal-Mart, told Reuters.

"The District Court's decision, unfortunately, ignores legal and public support for requiring large, profitable corporations to pay their fair share for health care," the newswire quoted Blank as saying.

The law was the first of its kind in the country. Legislators in at least 13 other states proposed similar "Pay or Play" bills in the past year, according to the National Conference of State Legislators.

-- from staff and wire reports

web page (http://money.cnn.com/2006/07/19/news/companies/walmart_ruling/index.htm?cnn=yes)

wolfdancer
07-24-2006, 02:13 PM
Fran, since Wal-Mart uses everything but Henry Ford's goon squad, to defeat unionism at it's stores.....many workers are not, and will not, be covered by it's health insurance program...and don't look to Wal-Mart to voluntarily come up with a plan. This is the company that frets over their senior employees, earning more wages then the newer ones, and not being any more productive(sic) And with the low wages they earn....they cannot afford health insurance.
So it's off to the already overcrowded emergency rooms, and in the end....the taxpayers pick up what should be WalMart's share of health costs....while the majority stockhoders rack up the profits.
America's 400 richest increased their wealth by $125 billion last year, and in the top ten list:

1. Bill Gates, $51 billion, Microsoft
2. Warren Buffett, $40 billion, Berkshire Hathaway
3. Paul Allen, $22.5 billion, Microsoft
4. Michael Dell, $18 billion, Dell
5. Lerry Ellison, $17 billion, Oracle
6. Christy Walton, $15.7 billion, Wal-Mart
7. Jim Walton, $15.7 billion, Wal-Mart
8. S. Robson Walton, $15.6 billion, Wal-Mart
9. Alice Walton, $15.5 billion, Wal-Mart
10. Helen Walton, $15.4 billion, Wal-Mart
we have five Waltons........

Yeah, it would be extortion to increase their costs and reduce there obscene profits....reeks of socialism...
I'm all for leaving the poor, the uninsured, on the road to die, as is done in India...the savings in health care wouldn't be enough to offset the war deficit, but maybe if we also cancel medicare, and social security....nah, it still wouldn't be enough.....how about if we shoot everyone that voices a dissent against the Bush Fiasco? We can't jail 'em, because we already have one out of every 134 American's in prison now....and we're a bit overcrowded....

pooltchr
07-24-2006, 02:45 PM
Wolf,
I looked, but all I can find is the right to life, liberty, and the persuit of happiness...can you tell me where it says we have the right to low cost health insurance to be provided by employers??? Health care is a "BENEFIT" offered by employers. When did we all become "ENTITLED" to this "benefit"?
This is so typical of the liberal way of looking at things. The big bad company has too much money, so they need to give some of it to those poor people who don't have much money. And if they won't give it away, the government should step in and force them to do it!

As the judge pointed out, by forcing Wal-Mart to change the way it treats employees in Maryland, then all the other employees in other states would have a different set of rules to go by. How can that work? If business treat some employees differently than others, the ACLU would jump all over them.
What's next? Should we force them to offer 4 weeks paid vacation? Maybe we should require them to give them a clothing allowance so they don't have to buy clothes to work in. While we're at it, let's just raise the minimum wage to $50 per hour so everyone can live like the executives do. After all, those employees shouldn't have to struggle while those rich old people running the company live in luxury. Even though they may not have gotten the education, and worked to build up a business, they are there and it's not their fault they aren't rich too. Damn it! Wal-Mart OWES it to their employees to give them everything they could possibly want or need! They're rich, and can afford it!

Here's an idea. Let's build houses around every Wal-Mart. All the houses should be exactly the same, and every employee should have to live in one. That way everyone is treated fairly, and we can all share the wealth!

My boss makes a Hell of a lot more than I do. Why? He OWNS the company! He pays me to work for him. We agreed on how much before I went to work. Should I have the right to just go in and demand more because he can afford it??????

How can you continue to believe that government intervention into business is a good thing?

Steve

DickLeonard
07-24-2006, 03:42 PM
Pooltchr there isn't anything in this Country's workers benefits what wasn't secured by the Unions. Do you think Vacations/sick leave/health ins are gifts of the Corps. Once the Unions won these rights for their members by their striking and crushing the heads of Strike Breakers did the non union members start to receive similar benefits.

I wonder how much the Judges got under the table for that decision. I for one would prefer not to have Wal Mart have their precious prices slashed so that their employees would have financial security of health insurance.

As a roaring Liberal I cannot see why my Tax Dollars should go to support a Giant Corp. I cannot see why any Right Wing Conservative would want his tax dollars going to support said same Corporation.

As a Christian I thought Greed was one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Maybe when Greed is Corporate it is not a Deadly Sin.####

wolfdancer
07-24-2006, 04:22 PM
I didn't say it was a "right' that is guaranteed by the Constitution....did you take the eg8r "remedial reading" course recently?
It's a "right" won by collective bargaining, where labor unites and demands their fair share of the profits. Unfortunately, once Reagan broke the back of Unions, after the Patco strike, and in these troubled times for employment....Wal Mart has successfully defeated any attempt to organize it's employees....not because the kind folks at WalMart, offer a better deal....but because employees fear for their jobs.
Unions just don't provide a means to insure fair wages...they set up a seniority system, and most important, a grievance procedure, that prevents unjust firings.
It's a fine line, but I see the Md. law as more of an alt. tax then gov't interference....but that point would be very debatable.
Without "Gov't interference" as you call it...we would have more price fixing and gouging, and just a few keiretsus running the show (we call them monopolies, over here)
While some of your other ideas sound appealing, they are too inovative for now.....the company town though, along with the company store, has been tried in the past " I owe my soul to the company store" Just might fit in with some right wing economic theory.
But, don't worry, under Republican rule, we are heading back to them gaudy days....and here we thought Plantations were a thing of the past.
You may think it's healthy for the economy for less then 5% of the people to control 90% of the nation's wealth....but when the playing field is that unlevel.....
I once knew a lady that was born into wealth....was a guest at the Hearst Castle, a passenger on the original Queen
Mary and sat in Hitler's lap as a young girl. Her father was in the movie industry here, and an international banker, part of the German war machine financiers.
She was prejudiced against Blacks, but went out of her way to hide it. She once told me how her father had given a home
$5000 at the time, to his retiring Black servants, and how they were so much better off when he was controlling their finances.
Well, that's the attitude I see in your modern Republican party....They alone know what's good or bad for us, and we should be indebted to their benevolance, since they control the money.....to which I say "....." wait, I can't say that here.
You're sold on WalMart's rights to operate as a monoply....no gov't interference, and smoker's right's to sicken others, without gov't regulations....and I suppose, the new interpretation of "eminant domain" where WalMart could actually "seize"....with $$, your property.....because, well, because they want it...for a new store
Your idea of fair government I believe is just fair for the very wealthy, and then hopes that some of that wealth will "trickle down" maybe? Isn't that the Republican Credo?
Hey, bring back them days of the kindly "Robber Barons"....(the Waltons qualify)...we were so much better off then...
Don't take none of this personal...we have two different belief systems, and fortunately my party gets elected every once in a while and tries to clean up the mess your party causes to the country.....this time though, it may not be fixable

Fran Crimi
07-24-2006, 04:34 PM
I think the judge got it right. The bill was about extorting money from Wal-Mart to pay the State of Maryland to help cover it's welfare payments. That's really what the bill is all about. 'Fair Share' is what I believe they titled it.

Maryland voters were looking for some relief for their continually rising welfare obligations.


Fran

pooltchr
07-24-2006, 06:16 PM
Wolf,
Wal-Mart isn't a monopoly...not for customers...and not for employment. Nobody has to shop at Wal-Mart and nobody has to work there. These are choices made freely by individuals. WOW!!!! Individual Freedom of Choice! What a unique idea!
Wal-Mart exists because they found a way to meet consumer's needs. Consumers like Wal-Mart. If they didn't, they would shop elsewhere! Target is making a run at them, but nobody seems too concerned about them!

The whole law was designed as a tax...not anything to help the employees.

As for the comments about organizing the workers, you state they are afraid if they try, they might lose their jobs. But I get the impression that you think the jobs aren't all that great. They don't even get the benefits other employers offer! If Wal-Mart is such a "bad employer", they wouldn't be risking a lot to try and organize. And don't try to tell me it's the only place these people can work. There are other companies that do offer benefits, if that's what they want.

Here's the thing of it. If the majority of people thought like you do, they wouldn't shop there, and WM would go out of business. If it's such a bad place to work, how can they get enough employees to work there?
Seems like a lot of people like the fact that they are employed and a lot of people like the prices.
I think you may be in the minority on this one.
Steve

wolfdancer
07-24-2006, 10:56 PM
You're right, i am definately in the minority on that one. I refuse though to shop at WalMart, and opt instead to shop at Costco, which gets much higher ratings for their employee benefits, while still offering good quality goods at a good price. to me WalMart sells cheap goods, cheaply....and since most of their items are foreign made...read "slave" labor....they add crap to the manufacturing economy here.
Sure they provide jobs, but I'd guess most of the wages just supplement another income....no one can live on the wages they pay.
Don't get me wrong though....not everyone can afford to shop at Macy's or Neiman-Marcus...I bought and read Sam's bio...and who can knock hard work, perseverance, and a great idea from paying off....and now his parasitic relatives can just sit back and watch their fortunes grow.
Hey, Maryland shouldn't make WalMart chip in for health care, not when the tax-payers there can foot the bill
What I get from your posts, from eg8r's posts....you'ld both be willing to endorse and support a plutocratic society....and that is exactly where this ***idiot you elected is trying to lead us....but even if he made the Dean's list at Yale....he's got to be the dumbest s.o.b that has ever resided at 1600 Penn. ave....and we've had some idiots there, mostly Republicans.

Qtec
07-25-2006, 03:58 AM
the poor pay more (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/18/MNGN3K0VO41.DTL)

[ QUOTE ]
The whole law was designed as a tax...not anything to help the employees <hr /></blockquote>
Again, check your facts. You are totally wrong. Even I know this and Wal Mart doesn't interest me. What they were trying to do, as I understand it, was to force WM to insure their employees.

[ QUOTE ]
If it's such a bad place to work, how can they get enough employees to work there?
<hr /></blockquote>

I saw an American docu that showed people travelling 4 hours a day to work in the kitchen at high priced restaurants for min wage because they were made to.
Take the job or lose your benefit.

Q..for some choice is a luxury.

Deeman3
07-25-2006, 05:01 AM
Farn,

Last night on The Tonight Show, Jay told of a Union in Pennsylvania who was having a new Union Hall built by non-Union labor. The reason,"THE UNION LABOR WAS TOO EXPENSIVE."

Deeman

DickLeonard
07-25-2006, 05:12 AM
Wolfdancer I read that Charles Dickens is coming back to write a Employee Handbook for Wal-Mart. ####

DickLeonard
07-25-2006, 05:29 AM
Wolfdancer where the hell did you hear that GWB made the Deans list at Yale? If he did his school records were altered just like most of the Bush's History has been altered.

I always maintained that being George Bush's Co-pilot was the most dangerous of wartime positions. I based that on that twice he survived crashes while he lost his co-pilots. The Captain always goes down with the ship, in his unauthorized version a gunner who was ahead of him said it didn't happen the way George said it did. Read chapter 6

The only thing I heard but never researched[this is the eg8r method] was that Bill Clinton's IQ was higher than the two Bushs combined.####

DickLeonard
07-25-2006, 05:36 AM
Deeman I don't buy that story because Union men would donate their time to help another Union. Unless it is a Paper Union.####

eg8r
07-25-2006, 08:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, once Reagan broke the back of Unions, <hr /></blockquote> Can you imagine how much further in the gutter the US would be if the unions continued? Take a stroll through Michigan and see how the unions have ruined the economy. The poor these days cannot afford to buy the "cheap" $15,000 cars that are built by union guys making $30/hr.

eg8r

DickLeonard
07-25-2006, 09:06 AM
Eg8r we had a Ford Radiator plant locally, who when they were shutting down finally listened to the men who were saying all along you're doing it all wrong. They increased production by 50% doing it their way just to show that the Bosses were wrong.

I never met a Boss that knew his ------- from his elbow. I am on Chapter 7 what chapter are you on? Simply great reading it shows that the Mafia had nothing on Businessess/Yale/Nazi/Opium?Slaves/Wow ####

eg8r
07-25-2006, 09:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Sure they provide jobs, but I'd guess most of the wages just supplement another income....no one can live on the wages they pay.
<hr /></blockquote> If this were true, then the same would be said of every single company in the US that pays minimum wage. I cannot wait until you begin your cry list of all the companies paying minimum wage while selling products mfg'ed in China.

My questions to you all is...What is a fair price to pay a high school drop out with no education who simply runs a cash register (consider more modern registers as those used in WM)? Before you answer, understand that the only part of their job that requires a single iota of brain activity is successfully counting out the change owed to the customer. I am not interested in hearing about what the cost of living is and the ability to survive under such low wages.

What is a fair price to pay someone who does not have to use their brain or brawn to do a task as simple as scan a product and hand out change?

eg8r

eg8r
07-25-2006, 09:12 AM
Are you responding to the horrible effects of the union on the economy of Michigan? Is your Ford plant local to Michigan?

eg8r

eg8r
07-25-2006, 09:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I heard but never researched[this is the eg8r method] was that Bill Clinton's IQ was higher than the two Bushs combined <hr /></blockquote> You are already too far lost to bother even trying any new methods.

eg8r

wolfdancer
07-25-2006, 09:30 AM
LoL...good one
I didn't mean to imply that GWB actually made the deans' list...I just meant if...and when I call him dumb, I mean his destructive policies...he is criminaly devious in my estimation....
From some recent articles...we supplied arms to Israel...now humanitarian aid to Lebanon.
He wasn't for an immediate cease-fire....now Rice-a roni is flying there to promote a cease fire

Gayle in MD
07-25-2006, 09:56 AM
BWA HA HA HA HAHAHAHAH....Rice-a-Roni...I love it! Too funny.

Hey, I notice Eg8r Full of Hate, is able to jump on at 10:06, and write atleast six insulting posts, by 10:29, just shows you what a happy, well adjusted guy he is!

Personally, I think Wal-Mart should make those drop outs that work there wear chains, so they won't get any ideas about getting any rewards for the company's success. Yeah! That's the ticket, we'll get Tom Delay, to pass a law and turn off the air conditioner, and lock them in at night, like they do in the Marrianna's, so Sammy can get another six hours work out of them.

Ya know, Jack, this thread proves that people who don't understand Maryland Politics, shouldn't try to debate this subject.

I am just happy that we Southern Maryland Citizens have managed to run off both Wal-Mart, (Blocked their huge distribution Center) and Ann Coulter, (Banned from using facilities paid for by our tax dollars to promote her evil book) in one year!

Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
07-25-2006, 10:42 AM
Kudos for Md!!!!!!
As for the insulting posts....it's the reason I don't bother to read them....never an intelligent rebuttal to an article, that you quote....just some name calling verbiage.

eg8r
07-25-2006, 10:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Hey, I notice Eg8r Full of Hate, is able to jump on at 10:06, and write atleast six insulting posts, by 10:29, just shows you what a happy, well adjusted guy he is! <hr /></blockquote> It just means that unlike yourself, I use all 10 fingers to type. Take a couple classes and you to might learn to type. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Your post also reminds us all that you are still reading my posts. When are you going to be honest with the rest of us and quit? You are the one that said you would quit, now show us there is some honesty left in you and prove it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Actually I am happy you continue to read, maybe one day when the ice melts in your head some of this will sink in.

eg8r

eg8r
07-25-2006, 10:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
...just some name calling verbiage.
<hr /></blockquote> I love reading all of Gayle's name calling verbiage also.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
07-26-2006, 12:30 AM
Funny thing is, I don't read them either! I just know that whatever he writes, it's always some kind of insult, no viable information included, and just a convolution of what the other poster has written! I just checked out the time on the posts, lol. Kind of funny, thinking about him furiously scrolling down through a thread, insulting posters left and right, while he munches on his twinkie!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Love,
Gayle

Qtec
07-26-2006, 03:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I am not interested in hearing about what the cost of living is and the ability to survive under such low wages.
<hr /></blockquote>

Why doesn't that surprise me? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yes eg8r, lets ignore REALITY.

I say pay them the market price, but the REAL market price- without illegal workers and forcing people on welfare to take those jobs. Then lets see how much the job is worth!

Q

Q....... /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Qtec
07-26-2006, 03:51 AM
opinion pdf file (http://www.mdd.uscourts.gov/Opinions152/Opinions/Walmartopinion.pdf)

Q

pooltchr
07-26-2006, 04:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I say pay them the market price, but the REAL market price- without illegal workers and forcing people on welfare to take those jobs. Then lets see how much the job is worth!

Q

Q....... /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Q, I actually have to agree with you here. This is the basis of our entire economic system. We call it "supply and demand". In this case, it is the supply of jobs and the demand for those jobs by potential employees. If enough people said they weren't interested in working at Wal-Mart at the wages offered, WM would be forced to raise wages in order to attract employees. Judging from the number of people working there, this doesn't seem to be an issue. Sure, everyone would like to be paid more, but the way to do that is to make yourself more valuable to your employer, not by government intervention, but by taking some initiative to gain more marketable skills.
Steve

eg8r
07-26-2006, 05:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why doesn't that surprise me?

Yes eg8r, lets ignore REALITY. <hr /></blockquote> A business is not required to support you and make sure they pay you enough money to survive. Your replies are really foolish and prove you are unable to have a decent discussion.

There is no market price for cashiers other than minimum wage. I am asking to not worry about outside factors that do not pertain to the job. What is the actual job worth.

eg8r

wolfdancer
07-26-2006, 05:33 AM
Steve, I think you and Fran are missing the main point here.It's not about mininum wages, or better job skills.
Our system depends on a low scale work force. no one is saying that a WalMart greeter "Hi,how may I help you?" should get as much as a computer service rep, who makes fun of the people asking for help.
I read recently where it costs American Auto Manufacturers $1500 more to build a car then their Asian competitors....most of that is in wages and benefits. they would love to stop paying into pension funds and cut their health ins costs, to compete.......but the work force has representation.
WalMart, the nations biggest employer, has minimal health ins costs, and there is no organized group, or union, negotiating better health care for the employees. That means that someone else has to pick up the bill...It also means that other employers are forced to reduce their labor costs to compete.
You can take Ed's attitude, and be not interested in the problem.....but just keep in mind that if you need the care of health services.....your end bill, will reflect the additional costs of hospitals not being able to turn away indigent people.
There's a high price to the public, for allowing a company that large to avoid paying their share.
I thought Md had a good idea.....they lost, but it exposes the problem, and concerns.
Not everyone will take Ed's attitude, and be unconcerned.
It may go against your beliefs that business should be allowed to operate laissez-faire, but if you can't see the hidden costs here....then you are a true "Helmseman"

moblsv
07-26-2006, 05:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>If enough people said they weren't interested in working at Wal-Mart at the wages offered, WM would be forced to raise wages in order to attract employees<hr /></blockquote>

Either that or they would lobby (buy) a government program to import "guest workers" from Mexico to do the jobs "Americans won't do".

DickLeonard
07-26-2006, 05:59 AM
Pooltchr Have you ever bought an American product,a household name and then look at where it was made and you see the name China. How did this happen?

The Company had the largest Retail Company in the World tell them either reduce your cost to us or lose our business. How can I do that, we are near the bottom of cost + profit now. Have you thought of having it made in China?
Then more american jobs go out the window.

Wal-Mart is a Giant Cancer on our Shores. They move into unsuspecting groups of small towns and pretty soon they have destroyed a large percentages of local business. While destroying the small business they have created customers who have lost their jobs because now they can't afford to shop in their old pattern. They have also gain a supply of workers who now need a job.

Costco might just be the Cure for that Cancer.####

wolfdancer
07-26-2006, 06:25 AM
Dick, WalMart is planning a store about a mile away from my house. This is my first time living in a small town....and even though "Main" st is just a few blocks long....I can see businesses which will be affected, and maybe fail.
Two hardware stores, a Radio Shack, A Safeway, and a Save-On, a Camera shop, a Tire store, Napa auto parts, Jiffy Lube.
WalMart is so big that they can swallow up these small businesses, and while many of those jobs are lost, the others are replaced on a much lower pay scale.
I'm only commenting, by the way, on the reality of the situation.

eg8r
07-26-2006, 09:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Pooltchr Have you ever bought an American product,a household name and then look at where it was made and you see the name China. How did this happen? <hr /></blockquote> That is easy, taxes. Keep raising the taxes and continue to watch companies look overseas for mfg.

[ QUOTE ]
Wal-Mart is a Giant Cancer on our Shores. They move into unsuspecting groups of small towns and pretty soon they have destroyed a large percentages of local business. <hr /></blockquote> There is nothing unsuspecting about it. Those local lawmakers are greedy looking at the taxes that would pour in if Wally world moved in. WM cannot do anything without local government approval.

[ QUOTE ]
While destroying the small business they have created customers who have lost their jobs because now they can't afford to shop in their old pattern. <hr /></blockquote> For every job lost at a local mom and pop store, there are 3 available at Walmart (for the same pay).

eg8r

eg8r
07-26-2006, 10:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
WalMart is so big that they can swallow up these small businesses, and while many of those jobs are lost, the others are replaced on a much lower pay scale.
<hr /></blockquote> All those jobs are lost and replaced with the new jobs at Wally world. I doubt the difference in pay is that big of a deal, even if there is a difference. The opportunities to advance are greater at Wally world. We know a guy that started as a cashier at WM in a tiny little town in North Florida and he is now the manager of one of the distribution centers. Not too shabby and getting paid a heck of a lot more than he was getting at the local gas station (which was swallowed up by WM also). This is only one example and it is pretty extreme but the opportunities are much better working for WM than a mom and pop store in rural America.

eg8r

eg8r
07-26-2006, 10:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Either that or they would lobby (buy) a government program to import "guest workers" from Mexico to do the jobs "Americans won't do". <hr /></blockquote> The truth stings doesn't it.

eg8r

eg8r
07-26-2006, 10:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You can take Ed's attitude, and be not interested in the problem..... <hr /></blockquote> I stated that for that question only. I wanted to actually focus on the "real" job these people are asked to do and what would a fair pay for that work. I guess most of you people have never run a business but hourly pay is not based on the poor soul's living situation, or whether or not they can afford to live working a part time job, the pay is based on the actual work that is to be done.

[ QUOTE ]
There's a high price to the public, for allowing a company that large to avoid paying their share.
<hr /></blockquote> To be quite honest, the high price is for a company like WM to listen to people like you trying to tell them what their fair share is.


eg8r

Qtec
07-26-2006, 10:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Why doesn't that surprise me?

Yes eg8r, lets ignore REALITY. <hr /></blockquote> A business is not required to support you and make sure they pay you enough money to survive. <font color="blue"> What is the minimum wage for? Why have a min wage if its not to ensure full time workers get a wage they can live on?</font color> Your replies are really foolish and prove you are unable to have a decent discussion. <font color="blue">LOL </font color>

There is no market price for cashiers other than minimum wage. <font color="blue"> So why are you asking when you have ALREADY made up your mind? Do you want a discussion or do you simpley want confirmation?</font color> I am asking to not worry about outside factors that do not pertain to the job. What is the actual job worth.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

How do you want to measure how much a job is worth?
Dan Quayle is a moron and he was VP? If we were paying him in accordace to his intelligence, he would OWE money! That blows your intelligence/wage related theory to smithereens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whats next, golf handicap? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Q

Deeman3
07-26-2006, 11:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr>
Two hardware stores, a Radio Shack, A Safeway, and a Save-On, a Camera shop, a Tire store, Napa auto parts, Jiffy Lube.
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">I wonder how these "Mom and Pop" stores stack up in terms of insuring their employees, paying wages and contributing to the community? </font color>

Deeman

pooltchr
07-26-2006, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> How do you want to measure how much a job is worth?
Dan Quayle is a moron and he was VP? If we were paying him in accordace to his intelligence, he would OWE money! That blows your intelligence/wage related theory to smithereens!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whats next, golf handicap? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Q <hr /></blockquote>

We aren't suggesting paying people for what they KNOW...but rather paying them based on what they actually contribute to the employer in terms of work accomplished. It's called pay for productivity. In a sales job, many people only get paid if they actually sell something! The more you sell, the more you make! I know that's a novel idea that goes against the liberal thinking of making sure everyone gets as much as possible regardless of whether they are actually worth it or not....but it really is as fair as possible. You get paid what you are actually worth!
Steve

wolfdancer
07-26-2006, 11:28 AM
Dee, probably not much better then the 500 lb gorilla store.
But I'd guess that the managers make a living salary.It's the owners, the ones that put their life's work, and capitol, into buying/ starting up the business, that will really be hurt. The employes can just walk away, with the loss of a paycheck....the owners may have everything tied up in the business. And the havoc doesn't stop there...the small business suppliers lose a customer, the building owners lose a tenant, their creditors lose on unpaid bills.
Who knows...we just might all be wearing blue vests if the trend continues...
Walmart Autos.....they jes might be looking into it

wolfdancer
07-26-2006, 11:46 AM
Ed, both your comments, as usual...are asinine.
I have run a business, thank you....and managed a few others. I'm aware of the costs of doing business, and keeping a lid on those costs. I just pointed out the problem, as I see it, of a large labor force, without health care....and your educated reply:
[ QUOTE ]
To be quite honest, the high price is for a company like WM to listen to people like you trying to tell them what their fair share is.
<hr /></blockquote>
This will get me thrown off the board...but believe me, it'll be worth it
What a f*cking, low-life piece of s**t as a human being you are

wolfdancer
07-26-2006, 12:14 PM
Q, you are wasting your time with this guy. His posts are just demeaning, and lack any trace of humanity. I've never once read a post of his where he tried to reasonably express his side of the argument, or discussion.....they are all some "boiler-plate" put-downs, that he may have saved on his Wang software as a schoolboy.
I'd hope that anyone who shares his viewpoints, doesn't rise above the level of stooge, in the Republican Party...oops, too late,I forgot that we've been Bushwhacked twice, already

eg8r
07-26-2006, 12:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What is the minimum wage for? <hr /></blockquote> It is there to appease those who believe the government should control everything. It is not set at a level for someone to work full-time and expect to buy a house (surely a nice one why should they live in the slums) and provide for a family.

[ QUOTE ]
Why have a min wage if its not to ensure full time workers get a wage they can live on? <hr /></blockquote> I agree, there should not be a minimum wage. The problem is that we have people doing nothing to better themselves and they are trying to provide for their families on minimum wage. Then they use their status as poor to get libs to up the minimum wage.

[ QUOTE ]
So why are you asking when you have ALREADY made up your mind? <hr /></blockquote> Because I am interested in seeing what everyone else thinks is fair.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you want a discussion or do you simpley want confirmation? <hr /></blockquote> You are the one making this tough. My question was very direct and simple. I made it very easy by removing the need to put a price on anything other than the skill set required to do a specific job.

[ QUOTE ]
How do you want to measure how much a job is worth?
<hr /></blockquote> I just look at the skill that is required to do the job and pick a number that I would be willing to pay should the government not step in choose for me. The job will require someone to move products in front of a barcode scanner. Once they are all scanned the employee will then have to provide the total to the customer and ask cash/credit/debit. If anything other than cash is chosen the employee will then have to correctly select the change from the drawer. There is nothing more to it, other than wiping down their work surface (in case they sell cold or frozen goods which will leave water marks) and keep their area clean. They will need to show up on time EVERY single day they are scheduled, and leave at the scheduled time.

I say that is worth about 4 bucks an hour. If they prove they can come in on time, and work productively without stealing, regular interval raises are acceptable. I would expect a ceiling of about 5.50/hour.

eg8r

eg8r
07-26-2006, 12:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This will get me thrown off the board...but believe me, it'll be worth it
What a f*cking, low-life piece of s**t as a human being you are <hr /></blockquote> Awwww, you were saying something about an educated response. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

It must have been great working for you. Oh wolfdancer, my son is sick and we have not been saving any money, spending it all on cigs and booze. Do you think you could pay my deductibles also. I know you already cover the rest of my health insurance but I really think you should pay more, you make more money so you should be paying your fair share.

eg8r

wolfdancer
07-26-2006, 01:07 PM
Think about it, "Dupree"....you are picking up the bill....you're just too blinded in your hatred of others, and your sheep-like obedience to the party line to see it.
Maybe you should read up on social economics, and you might have some intelligent, even for you, rebuttals, to opinions expressed here by others who realize that GWB might be the second Bush to despoil the White house, but do not believe he is the second coming, nor that he has a mandate from God, to initiate a Bible Belt jihad, and impose his idea of a one man rule "democracy"
as for my rude reply....I was limited by the "curse-word" filters the CCB employs....otherwise, I could have told you what I really think.

Qtec
07-27-2006, 01:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Chicago backs higher minimum wage

Chicago's city council has approved a measure that would force major American retailers to pay an increased minimum wage to their employees.
The council backed a starting salary of $9.25 an hour, well above the existing $5.15 minimum despite opposition from retailing giant Wal-Mart.

But Mayor Richard Daley has not said yet whether he will sign it into law.

Wal-Mart has long been the target of labour activists for its low wages and anti-union stance.

The new ordinance would also require benefits of $1.50 an hour, with the rate rising to a $10-an-hour wage plus $3 benefits by 2010.

Council 'wrong'

Critics say the measure will restrict job opportunities and keep investment away from urban neighbourhoods in need of development.

The ordinance was passed 35-14 after three hours of debate.

The new measure will apply to large retailers with more than $1bn (£790m) in annual sales and stores which are bigger than 90,000 sq ft.

"It's wrong for the city council to tell the people of Chicago where to shop and to make it harder for inner-city residents to find jobs," Wal-Mart's senior vice president of store operations Michael Lewis told the Associated Press news agency.

Wal-Mart says it already pays an entry-level salary of $7.25 an hour, well above the minimum wage.

Wal-Mart and chain store Target both said they may no longer build their stores in the city of Chicago.

Other US cities with "living wage" laws include Santa Fe and Albuquerque in New Mexico, San Francisco, and Washington DC. <hr /></blockquote>




Humour. WM wants higher wages! web page (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4377344.stm)



Q...way-to-go Chicago.

Qtec
07-27-2006, 01:15 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wolf, calm down my friend. LOL I know eg8r can incite this kind of response[ LOL ] but its just Ed. He can't help it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I,m sure that deep down- really deep down Ha- his heart is in the right place.............for a Klingon. LOL

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
07-27-2006, 01:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
We aren't suggesting paying people for what they KNOW...but rather paying them based on what they actually contribute to the employer in terms of work accomplished. It's called pay for productivity. In a sales job, many people only get paid if they actually sell something! The more you sell, the more you make! I know that's a novel idea that goes against the liberal thinking of making sure everyone gets as much as possible regardless of whether they are actually worth it or not....but it really is as fair as possible. You get paid what you are actually worth!
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, I agree.
Q

Qtec
07-27-2006, 01:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I say that is worth about 4 bucks an hour. If they prove they can come in on time, and work productively without stealing, regular interval raises are acceptable. I would expect a ceiling of about 5.50/hour.

eg8r

<hr /></blockquote>
$4. LOL
For 16 yr old kids living at home working part-time its pocket money. Maybe after working a month they might be able to buy a pair of Nike's. Maybe.

If you were a single mother or just a single adult could you afford to work for that kind of money?
Q

eg8r
07-27-2006, 03:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Q...way-to-go Chicago. <hr /></blockquote> Give this time to happen. I can assure you, if it does and Walmart and Target pull out of Chicago those employees will not be as happy as you are.

eg8r

eg8r
07-27-2006, 04:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If you were a single mother or just a single adult could you afford to work for that kind of money?
<hr /></blockquote> This has nothing to do with what I am asking. At this time I am only interested in what the actual job is worth. Why can't you get this into your thick head? How many times does it need to be mentioned before you listen?

A company has NO RESPONSIBILITY to the employee to make sure they can live off the wages earned.

eg8r

eg8r
07-27-2006, 04:04 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r

eg8r
07-27-2006, 04:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
as for my rude reply....I was limited by the "curse-word" filters the CCB employs....otherwise, I could have told you what I really think. <hr /></blockquote> Yes, the school yard bully mentality is not really needed. It is childish and your inability to control yourself is proof positive.

eg8r

DickLeonard
07-27-2006, 04:55 AM
Wolfdancer our number one business is Supplying the World with Weapons, then when they use them we go in and take them back. Most of the time we have to remove said weapons from our troops bodies. Send our troops in to quell the uprising. Our troops work for the War Industries in the ruse of Waving a piece of Silk. My favorite quote from Napolean.

I still maintain Whenever we go to War, no American War Industry can charge more than cost minus 10% because we know they will fatten their Bill. The thieves that they are.####

DickLeonard
07-27-2006, 05:07 AM
Eg8r I mean the same idiots are running the industry in Michigan.

I saw the movement to SUV's and the first thought I had was these monsters will be parked on lawns through out the country as soon as the price of gas goes sky high. Punishing the [converative] save our resources group because of their total waste of gas.####

pooltchr
07-27-2006, 06:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Wolfdancer our number one business is Supplying the World with Weapons, then when they use them we go in and take them back. Most of the time we have to remove said weapons from our troops bodies. Send our troops in to quell the uprising. Our troops work for the War Industries in the ruse of Waving a piece of Silk. My favorite quote from Napolean.

I still maintain Whenever we go to War, no American War Industry can charge more than cost minus 10% because we know they will fatten their Bill. The thieves that they are.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe the government should be buying weapons at Wal-Mart...look at all the tax dollars we could save, since they sell everything for less.
Steve

wolfdancer
07-27-2006, 07:01 AM
Steve, you gots one good idea after another, recently.....have you ever thought of running for office /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DickLeonard
07-27-2006, 07:40 AM
Wolfdancer I thought my earlier post answered that problem. As a Liberal I hate seeing my taxes going to supprt a Giant Corp. As a Conservative I would also hate seeing my tax money going to support a Giant Corp.####

llotter
07-27-2006, 08:26 AM
Hey guys, can't we all just get along. As a conservative, I think that wages should be established in one-on-one negotiations between employer and employee...that is an essential attribute of living in a free society, i.e. upholding the responsibilities of being a free individual. To be free means NOT to be dependent on the nanny state to usurp individual responsibility. There should be no minimum wage. If a person wants better wages then he needs to do what needs to be done to achieve his goals. This is what provides the motivating force to social progress and improvement. The ultimate beauty of Freedom is not only that it brings freedom to individuals but that it is so successful. Instead of having a few people planning for the future for everybody, there are millions doing their own planning. This country became great because we were free of all these government programs that have now become such costly burdens on even the hardest workers.

As a conservative, I believe in limited government as listed in the enumerated powers in the Constitution, article 1, sec. 8. It was, after all, the Declaration if Independence that was signed, not the Declaration of Dependence. To be a free person should certainly NOT entitle anyone to take the resources of others, no matter what their circumstance, whether under the color of law of at the point of a gun. To the extent we allow this to happen, we are inviting anarchy and lawlessness and oppressive bureaucratic rule, one feeding on the others. And, unfortunately, we are allowing it to happen on a grand scale with thanks a tip-of-the-hat to the Left for so effectively espousing the something-for-nothing rhetoric that swept reality aside. Political Correctness has become the vacuous logic of the day and it is leading rapidly into the dark abyss (buy gold).

pooltchr
07-27-2006, 08:40 AM
Larry,
Great post! Well articulated, and right on the money!!!
Steve

eg8r
07-27-2006, 09:53 AM
I wonder just how high the gas will need to get before that happens. Even now with $3/gallon the SUVs clog up the streets.

eg8r

Qtec
07-27-2006, 10:29 AM
Welcome to the ccb llotter. Unfortunately, you are just as misguided as the other Cons. LOL

"PLUCKED AGAIN


If you like reading appalling stories about welfare queens who abuse the system and get money that they don't really need from the taxpayers, well, here is a gem for you.


by Jim Hightower
Charles Schwab is one lucky duck. Not only is he a billionaire stockbroker, heading the Wall Street firm that bears his family name, but he also has his own private duck-hunting club on 1,500 acres of wetlands in picturesque Northern California.

He calls his place Casa de Patos, which is Spanish for House of Ducks. However, ducks don't read, so they're unaware that Charlie named his place for the birds and that they're supposed to swoop down from their migratory path to get a close enough for Schwab and his duck-loving friends to shoot at them. Also, while you and I know from his ubiquitous ads that Charles is a hot-shot Wall Street stockbroker, your average duck doesn't watch a lot of TV and wouldn't know Charles Schwab from a cotton swab.

But Schwab knows that his feathered friends are attracted to rice fields, so, to lure more of the game birds within gunshot range, Charles has had much of Casa de Patos planted in rice. Charles Schwab, billionaire duck man, discovered the federal farm program. Specifically, his legal eagles determined that, as a rice grower, Schwab was eligible for rice subsidies from us taxpayers. Lots of subsidies.

The bottom line here is that you and I, Mr. and Ms. Joe Schmoe Taxpayer, fork over some $500,000 a year in federal crop-support funds so Schwab can be sure that guests at his exclusive hunting club have plenty of ducks to kill. The farm program was originally meant to help struggling small farmers -- not a pleasure-seeking Wall Streeter with a net worth of some $4 billion. With program perverters like Schwab, we taxpayers are sitting ducks. "




While GOPs whine about handouts for the poor , they ignore the handouts to billionares and powerfull Corps- especially the Arms industry..
Combine the amount of waste from FEMA, ie Katrina and the Iraq $ black hole[ no-bid contracts/ waste/ fraud/ corruption] and the Govt subsidies to people who DON'T need them , you have an astronomical number.

A living wage is surely not too much to ask for ordinary/not well educated American citizens who live in the richest country on the planet- is it?
Basic health care? Should that be a luxury or a human right?

The real bloodsuckers are the ones at the top, not the unfortunate few who want to work but just need to make a certain amount of money to break even! Thats what a min wage should be all about.

Subsidizing the lowest paid workers would boost the economy. Its certainly better than giving guys who can't possibly spend what they already have even more cash.

Q..I think, if the country should go into debt and spend massive amounts of money , it can better be to help people out of poverty rather than making rich people richer.
JMO

Q

Gayle in MD
07-27-2006, 11:34 AM
Tap Tap Tap... Karl Rove meets with the corporate fascist thieves every week on K Street, where they express what they desire, basically, more money in their pockets, then he goes back to George Bush, and the two of them figure out how to grant all their wishes, hence, we end up with secret meetings, so secret and corrupt, that Cheney goes to court to avoid any public disclosure of exactly who attended the meetings, and Exon reports unprecedented profits, 10.36 billion this quarter, Halliburton, profits through the roof, as both gouge Americans, while the minimum wage hasn't been raised in seven years, and those who work at Walmart, try to figure out how to fill their gas tanks to get to work, George Bush is doing everything he can do to promote out-sourcing of our jobs, and cheap labor for the Corporate Thieves! Absolutely disgusting! A society without conscience, built by a party without conscience! NEOCONNED by the right, as they run up massive debt, and pork their way to favors and re-election!

Conservative now means GREED, EXHORBITANT SPENDING, CORPORATE FRAUD, IRRESPONSIBILITY, HUGE DEBT, CORRUPTION, ELECTION FRAUD and ILLEGAL, IMMORAL UN-NECESSARY WAR~!

Just keep on voting for republicans, and we'll soon see a country of only two economic levels, the rich and the poor, since the middle class and upper middle class are the ones being squeezed for the benefit of the rich.

Gayle in Md.

Stretch
07-27-2006, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I say that is worth about 4 bucks an hour. If they prove they can come in on time, and work productively without stealing, regular interval raises are acceptable. I would expect a ceiling of about 5.50/hour.

eg8r

<hr /></blockquote>
$4. LOL
For 16 yr old kids living at home working part-time its pocket money. Maybe after working a month they might be able to buy a pair of Nike's. Maybe.

If you were a single mother or just a single adult could you afford to work for that kind of money?
Q <hr /></blockquote>

4 dollars an hour was the minimum wage here (Canada) 30 years ago. Today that would be akin to slave labour. Although it hasn't raised significantly since then (it's now 7.50 to 8.oo depending on which province your in) it sure hasn't kept pace with the salaries of the managers and executives who are making about 800 percent more over the same period. The trouble is there is no incentive for a person on welfare or social assistance to get an unskilled job. At 4 bucks an hour It would cost them more to leave the house, get themselves to work and pay for child care as it would to just stay home and collect food stamps, child credit and welfare cheques.

What i find is happening now with the insane taxes, 15 percent on all goods and servises, is that most people including myself partake in the underground economy. Cash is king. You don't leave a paper trail and you can buy or hire anyone to do almost anything at half the price. The local handy man is the buisiest guy on the street. You pick up auto parts at the junk yard not the dealer. You support your local boot legger, buy your fruits and Veggies at the farmers markets (yes they will haggle) Hit the flea markets and yard sales and buy in bulk so you can share with friends who can in turn give back something that you might need or want, also Cultivate friendships and alliences with a broad spectrum of tradesman and buying groups. In short, you gotta help each other out. I know it's a form of anarchy in a way but tuff tittie. I pride myself in NOT paying full price for anything if i can at all help it. the sky high cost of liveing and taxation has forced me to be.....fruggle /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I havn't had any credit cards for over 6 years, I'm dept free and owe nuthin to nobody. Just look how big e-bay has become. Little wonder.

As far as Wally World goes. Don't shop there much. I might only go in for something once in a month or two. They are usually located on the outskirts of town as they tend to kill the charactor and buisneses of the down town core so it's not that convient for me. i figure if shopping there is going to save me 5 dollars in purchises but it cost 5 dollars in gas to get there, where's the saveing? The customer service there sucks big time too. You got this HUGE friggin store and nobody knows where anything is. St.

pooltchr
07-27-2006, 12:17 PM
Q,
I am all for getting rid of the farm subsidies. I don't see any reason we should pay anybody anything from our tax dollars to either not grow something, or grow it and them plow it under. Farmers should operate under the same free enteprise system as the rest of the country.

As for your comment on health care...if you think the government should be involved in providing medical coverage for everyone, just take a look at how well that idea works in Canada! Your ideas are one of the root causes of so many problems in our country. We have the right to life, liberty and persuit of happiness. Nobody was ever promised a free ride, corporate welfare (Employer provided health care) or even a job making a minimum amount of money. Those who want it, will find a way to get it. Those who choose to do nothing and wait for someone to give them what they think they deserve are a drain on our economy. When you encourage taking from the wealthy to give to the poor, you are moving dangerously close to communism...and that isn't how our country survived for the past 230 years.
If all the free handouts were suddenly taken away, I think you would see a lot of people get off their collective a$$e$ and get to work. But as long as the government keeps stealing my money to give away to someone looking for a free handout, those people will continue to do nothing and take the freebies! And that is true whether they are rich or poor. The key is to stop the government from giving so much away for nothing!

"Welcome to the ccb llotter. Unfortunately, you are just as misguided as the other Cons. LOL"

If you look up misguided in the dictionary, you will see Q's picture! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Steve

llotter
07-27-2006, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome. I have read a lot of the posts here and was reluctant to get involved but I just love political debate and couldn’t help myself. With such a wide chasm between us, it may be fruitless to guide some of you folks to the light and the truth but wanted to give it a try anyway.

As a conservative, I am not in favor of any government subsidy program for agriculture and anything else. In addition to being unconstitutional, bureaucrats and politicians simply aren’t smart enough to run the economy and even if they were, in a free society, they shouldn’t. Fredrick Hayek wrote an entire book called, ‘The Fatal Conceit’ showing why government is incapable of running everybody’s lives for them, as if wasn’t self-evident.

Not only am I against all government subsidies, I am against all entitlements, like Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and whatever else in that list. Plus we should do away with a lot of other programs that just aren’t in the Constitution. I figure that the budget should be about a 25% of current levels by the time we get back to the Constitution.

Also, I haven’t voted for a Republican since I held my nose and voted for Bush in ’88 and have since happily voted for the Constitution Party. The there was a short lived ray of hope in ’94 when the Republicans took over the House and they did slow the train a little on its way toward the cliff but we needed much, much more. And it didn’t that them long to adopt the same big spending ways of the fellow Democrat travelers. Better elect Democrats and turncoat Republicans.

It doesn’t sound to me like you are ‘asking’ for a living wage but rather ordering it through police power. Health care is not listed in the Constitution and hopefully it will never be added. I can’t remember who exactly said, ‘Government governs best that governs least’ but it is a good motto to follow.

DickLeonard
07-27-2006, 01:11 PM
llotter Welcome aboard you have step into the Lions Lair. Who goes to War in Your World the rich who wiggle out or the poor who have no wiggle room. Big Business get Billions in Welfare and everyone picks on the poor. The only entertainment they have is fornicating and then we take the Joy out of it by not giving them the day after pill. Then we complain about supporting their children.

George Bush is the Poster Child for the Day After Pill.####

pooltchr
07-27-2006, 05:25 PM
Dick,
Aren't you glad your mother didn't have access to the morning after pill??????
Steve

DickLeonard
07-28-2006, 04:58 AM
Pooltchr as I have posted before George Bush is the Poster Child for the Morning After Pill.####

eg8r
07-28-2006, 06:49 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I havn't had any credit cards for over 6 years, I'm dept free and owe nuthin to nobody. Just look how big e-bay has become. Little wonder.
<hr /></blockquote> Congratulations! My wife and I got rid of our credits cards 6 years ago. It has taken that long to make the final payment, but they are now all paid off. We owe money on one car and the house. Other than that, we are also free and clear. It is a great feeling knowing you don't owe anyone anything. When you have debt you are a slave to the lender, and that feeling sucks.

[ QUOTE ]
As far as Wally World goes. Don't shop there much. I might only go in for something once in a month or two. They are usually located on the outskirts of town as they tend to kill the charactor and buisneses of the down town core so it's not that convient for me. i figure if shopping there is going to save me 5 dollars in purchises but it cost 5 dollars in gas to get there, where's the saveing? The customer service there sucks big time too. You got this HUGE friggin store and nobody knows where anything is. St.
<hr /></blockquote> You must be surprised how accessible wally world is when you come down to Florida. It seems we have one on every street.

eg8r