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View Full Version : What is wrong with the American pool players?



InDepther
07-29-2006, 02:49 AM
It is Saturday and IPT has reached the last group face with not a single American in the final 6 players. This is something that I find it really hard to explain /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif, especially if you consider that:

1) I don't know if 8ball and 9ball have American roots, but in Europe we call both games American pool.

2) USA has lots of tournaments and leagues every year, especially compared with the rest of the world.

3) In USA you can even play pool as a hustler, which is science fiction elsewhere.

4) The tour started with about half players being American.

5) The tour is taking place in Nevada.

It is also well noting that the tournament started with about a hundred Americans and one single Russian. In the finals today there are 0 Americans and that Russian.

Just few funny and strange observations about IPT /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

Snapshot9
07-29-2006, 05:27 AM
Because, leagues, etc. were first sold as 'entertainment', not a sport.
Because, many players reach a level they are comfortable with, and think they don't need to practice or get any better.
Because, Americans are lazy when it comes to practicing hard. They basically think playing someone is practice, which it is not. And they fail to work on their weaknesses of their game, therefore never getting better.
Most American players stop at 8 or 9 ball, and don't go on to 14.1, one pocket, and rotation to become a 'complete' player.
And most Americans want to do just enough to 'get by', and not to strive for 'Self-realization' in the sport.

Sid_Vicious
07-29-2006, 06:40 AM
I personally can not defend myself against any of those statements. Other than playing way more pool than a human being ought to, I do play-play and not work. Sounds cnotradictory to me when I hear(like marriage), "You really have to work at it." Hell, it's fun and work ain't!. Whether it be pool or marriage, it's supposed to be an oasis from the troubles and toils of the mundane parts of one's life, unless of course you call it your only job. I'm guilty as charged, but I have a lot of fun just like my game is today. Actually though I've seen some players over emphasis work in their game, take lesson upon lesson, school after school, drills upon drills...and gain a little speed but still lose to many of the happy-go-lucky locals a heck of a lot of the time. Chill and play, life's too damn short. Jm2c...sid~~~9-ball, game of skill /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Billy_Bob
07-29-2006, 08:11 AM
I kind of wonder if constantly playing on tables with larger than normal pockets (American 9-ball) is what is hurting the Americans. Because they are used to fast cloth maybe?

I have not seen the matches. What is happening that is causing the Americans to lose their matches?

Are they not pocketing balls sometimes? Are they not shooting hard enough sometimes for the slow cloth (ball not reaching pocket or CB not going far enough)?

Fran Crimi
07-29-2006, 08:40 AM
8 Ball has never been an American Pro game. Any pro in this country who started out playing 8 Ball as an amateur stopped playing it long before they could be considered experts at the game. That's just the way it is in this country. 8 Ball is not a game preferred by pros here.

As far as not one of the top 6 players being American, I'd take notice if the game were 9 Ball, not 8 Ball.

Fran

InDepther
07-29-2006, 10:54 AM
Actually I was expecting a better level of play in general. It seems that the smaller pockets, the slow cloth and the 8ball over 9ball have a negative impact on everybody's game. I expect to see everyone playing better in next tour stop.

From the American players, I liked Archer's break the most.

DSAPOLIS
07-29-2006, 12:11 PM
IMO, I think the money has a lot to do with it. Before I get sliced to shreds, let me explain. There are many players that have made deals in the past, and this tournament was no different. Players went in knowing they could help each other get into the later rounds - and eventually that money will be split. The Filippino players and the German players are there to win, and they are playing from their hearts and not their wallets. IMO there are several US players that could have cared less about winning - and they just showed up for the cash. For some $5K was enough to make them happy - for others it was $10K - plus whatever they could get extra by cutting a deal with someone they let slip by them.

Eventually these players will be weeded out of the process (IMO they are slashing their own throats) and KT will be able to get players that actually want to show up and play to win.

This is a sad fact amongst professional pool in the US. In the case of the IPT, the savers just got bigger. When you know these guys and you understand who helps who and when... you can look at the groupings and see what happened. I am not the only person that noticed that - don't shoot me - its no secret amongst the players, and its no secret to those that know better. Its just the facts.

Scott Lee
07-29-2006, 05:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snapshot9:</font><hr> Because, Americans are lazy when it comes to practicing hard. They basically think playing someone is practice, which it is not. And they fail to work on their weaknesses of their game, therefore never getting better.
And most Americans want to do just enough to 'get by', and not to strive for 'Self-realization' in the sport.
<hr /></blockquote>

Scott...I'd have to agree and disagree. I think most serious players don't really know HOW to effectively practice. Here's something I posted a couple of days ago on AzB...

Originally Posted by PoolSharkAllen
Scott: Assuming that people are utilizing the correct stance, grip and stroke, could you expand on your comment that most people don't know how to practice correctly? Like most serious pool players, I spend a lot of time practicing, so I'm curious to know what you consider to be the right way to practice? THX.



Sure Allen, glad to... Most serious players mistakenly believe that they should practice for many hours every day, or at least whenever they can. The problem with that is that our attention spans are not built for that kind of disciplined response. You can PLAY for hours, but you cannot practice diligently for long periods of time. We tend to get bored, frustrated, or angry...none of which are conducive to learning. Consequently, what we teach is a structured approach to practice. Short bursts, 10-15 minutes at a time (with a 5-10 minute break in between), with very disciplined applications, for specific tasks, and specific, measurable results. So, while you may practice a specific shot or drill for a set number of tries...you don't do the same thing for 100x, or for an hour or more. Fewer tries, but with the same amount of determination and discipline, sustained on each try...as if it was the game shot, for example. A well-defined pre-shot routine and a repeatable stroke are essential before this kind of practice pays off...but it pays off in spades, in the long run. Far more than doing "boring" drills and stuff, or 'just running balls'! At poolschool, you learn a series of 'mother drills', that take just a few minutes to do each one. In between drills, you can relax by just shooting some balls, or playing the ghost, or whatever. I teach my own series of warmups, that, after practicing them, should take about 15-20 minutes to complete. After that, I tell my students to do whatever they want...other drills, run balls, spar with a partner, gamble, whatever. Just do the warmups FIRST, before anything else! Randy will tell you, he practices for about 20 minutes...and that's all! He might then PLAY for a couple of hours, with a partner...sparring, he calls it. This kind of practice is much more suitable and appropriate for the serious (or casual) player, imo, than trying to "practice" for hours on end.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com (http://www.poolknowledge.com)

cushioncrawler
07-29-2006, 06:45 PM
I notice that the IPT site sez that the cloth iz a napped cloth (they said knap!!) -- does anyone know whether this "nap" iz a directional-nap (like on a 12' table), or non-directional. If non-directional, then dont bother reading any further.

If directional, then snooker etc playerz (like Quinten Hann) would have a huge advantage over USA players.

Allso, does anyone know whether a directional-nap iz commonly found in Europe (eg on pocketless tables) -- if so, then the European players would have an advantage allso -- if a directional-nap was used in the IPT NM Open.

Perhaps Efren &amp; Co have some sort of regular access to directional-nap-cloth allso.

Some facts about directional-nap-cloth......

Rolling rezistance iz at a max when the ball iz rolling directly against the nap (i call this direction 180dg). But, rolling rezistance iz not at a minimum when rolling with the nap (00dg). The ball rollz further when rolling at ???dg (and the mirror-image of ???dg) -- but i will leave this (???dg) to someone else to figure out.

Frictional rezistance iz at a max when the ball iz skidding directly against the nap (ie at 180dg) -- but the minimum friction iz not at 00dg -- it iz at **dg (and the mirror image) -- someone else can find the figures.

A rolling ball allwayz haz a little (or a lot of) side-spin -- except when it is rolling at exactly 00dg and 180dg.

A rolling ball only goes dead straight when rolling in about 6 different directions -- 2 of theze are of course 00dg and 180dg -- the others i karnt remember exactly.

A skidding ball only goes dead straight in 2 directionz -- 00dg and 180dg -- otherwize it skids and curves (crowd-surfs) in the direction of the nap.

All of the above affects squirt, deflexion angle, distance etc etc -- even if u hit the qball dead center (which iz what snooker players do, and what pool players think they do).

Voodoo Daddy
07-30-2006, 03:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snapshot9:</font><hr> Because, Americans are lazy when it comes to practicing hard. They basically think playing someone is practice, which it is not. And they fail to work on their weaknesses of their game, therefore never getting better. <hr /></blockquote>

Ya hit it on the head...american pool players, lazy to the core. Rather gamble with the sheep than put forth maximum effort to practice. I feel that the money is at a level where a player could have a trainer/coach/mentor. Someone that isnt a cheering section but more like a Mickey to the pervebial Rocky Balboa. I dunno....maybe I am wrong but I feel players that are super talented but have hard luck rolls would have a much better shot with a handler helping them along.

May be a bad comparison but those of you that remember Cuz D'Matto and a young Mike Tyson can almost visualize my madness.

Stretch
07-30-2006, 06:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DSAPOLIS:</font><hr> IMO, I think the money has a lot to do with it. Before I get sliced to shreds, let me explain. There are many players that have made deals in the past, and this tournament was no different. Players went in knowing they could help each other get into the later rounds - and eventually that money will be split. The Filippino players and the German players are there to win, and they are playing from their hearts and not their wallets. IMO there are several US players that could have cared less about winning - and they just showed up for the cash. For some $5K was enough to make them happy - for others it was $10K - plus whatever they could get extra by cutting a deal with someone they let slip by them.

Eventually these players will be weeded out of the process (IMO they are slashing their own throats) and KT will be able to get players that actually want to show up and play to win.

This is a sad fact amongst professional pool in the US. In the case of the IPT, the savers just got bigger. When you know these guys and you understand who helps who and when... you can look at the groupings and see what happened. I am not the only person that noticed that - don't shoot me - its no secret amongst the players, and its no secret to those that know better. Its just the facts. <hr /></blockquote>

David, always great to get your views on here. Sounds like "money" is about the only thing they can agree on. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif St.

PoolSharkAllen
07-30-2006, 07:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snapshot9:</font><hr> Because, Americans are lazy when it comes to practicing hard. They basically think playing someone is practice, which it is not. And they fail to work on their weaknesses of their game, therefore never getting better.
And most Americans want to do just enough to 'get by', and not to strive for 'Self-realization' in the sport.
<hr /></blockquote>

Scott...I'd have to agree and disagree. I think most serious players don't really know HOW to effectively practice. Here's something I posted a couple of days ago on AzB...

Originally Posted by PoolSharkAllen
Scott: Assuming that people are utilizing the correct stance, grip and stroke, could you expand on your comment that most people don't know how to practice correctly? Like most serious pool players, I spend a lot of time practicing, so I'm curious to know what you consider to be the right way to practice? THX.



Sure Allen, glad to... Most serious players mistakenly believe that they should practice for many hours every day, or at least whenever they can. The problem with that is that our attention spans are not built for that kind of disciplined response. You can PLAY for hours, but you cannot practice diligently for long periods of time. We tend to get bored, frustrated, or angry...none of which are conducive to learning. Consequently, what we teach is a structured approach to practice. Short bursts, 10-15 minutes at a time (with a 5-10 minute break in between), with very disciplined applications, for specific tasks, and specific, measurable results. So, while you may practice a specific shot or drill for a set number of tries...you don't do the same thing for 100x, or for an hour or more. Fewer tries, but with the same amount of determination and discipline, sustained on each try...as if it was the game shot, for example. A well-defined pre-shot routine and a repeatable stroke are essential before this kind of practice pays off...but it pays off in spades, in the long run. Far more than doing "boring" drills and stuff, or 'just running balls'! At poolschool, you learn a series of 'mother drills', that take just a few minutes to do each one. In between drills, you can relax by just shooting some balls, or playing the ghost, or whatever. I teach my own series of warmups, that, after practicing them, should take about 15-20 minutes to complete. After that, I tell my students to do whatever they want...other drills, run balls, spar with a partner, gamble, whatever. Just do the warmups FIRST, before anything else! Randy will tell you, he practices for about 20 minutes...and that's all! He might then PLAY for a couple of hours, with a partner...sparring, he calls it. This kind of practice is much more suitable and appropriate for the serious (or casual) player, imo, than trying to "practice" for hours on end.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com (http://www.poolknowledge.com) <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for your response. On a slightly different note, even if you're not practicing but are playing matches against opponents, eventually you get tired, bored or frustrated, and your game starts to go downhill. I may play for 3-5 hours at a time against people that I play with; whereas in the IPT, these players may play all day. How does one counteract the fatigue factor of having to play multiple games or matches in one day?

Sid_Vicious
07-30-2006, 07:52 AM
Problem with that idea is that(at least for me, guilty) seasoned players don't want others criticism, and that's what many would feel it is. Pool is such a personal thing to those who have seen their game "big" at brief times, so IMO many players might feel they don't need anything other than to find that by themselves. Oh well, maybe I'm wrong. The best ploy I can suggest for those types is to gather in a youth, or a newbie to pool, and teach. I learn more from teaching than I ever learned from being taught, mostly reminds me of the things I KNOW, but have lazily backslid on in my game over time. Jm2c...sid

Scott Lee
07-30-2006, 08:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PoolSharkAllen:</font><hr> Thanks for your response. On a slightly different note, even if you're not practicing but are playing matches against opponents, eventually you get tired, bored or frustrated, and your game starts to go downhill. I may play for 3-5 hours at a time against people that I play with; whereas in the IPT, these players may play all day. How does one counteract the fatigue factor of having to play multiple games or matches in one day? <hr /></blockquote>

Allen...Here's my take on that. Mental fitness and physical fitness are separate issues, and most players who might have one or the other, rarely think ahead enough to bother maximizing both sides. It does take physical stamina to play for many hours at a time, whether you're competing against your buddies, playing in a tournament, or serious gambling. However, mental toughness, comes at a cost...and, imo, is best developed by creating the confidence that comes with experience playing (in varying table conditions), under several kinds of pressure, and complemented with an accurate, repeatable stroke. All are critical elements, but the stroke is maybe the most important...at least initially, because it then allows the player to "feel good" about how they are contacting the CB, which then helps build confidence in the other areas.

Hope this helps...

Scott Lee

Voodoo Daddy
07-30-2006, 08:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Problem with that idea is that(at least for me, guilty) seasoned players don't want others criticism, and that's what many would feel it is. sid <hr /></blockquote>

I had no idea you were/are a seasoned player /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif. Having said that I will put this in front of you so you can maybe re-think your words. If you thought you had "most" of the tools to win an IPT event but kept coming up short...wouldnt you want someone with a keen eye for structure flaws or inconsistancies in your corner?

caedos
07-31-2006, 12:35 AM
I helped do the install on a table for a couple of players getting ready for the event. It is non-directional napped cloth, and probably in excess of a 25 ounce weight. It stretches much, much more than Simonis 860.

PoolSharkAllen
07-31-2006, 05:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>
Allen...Here's my take on that. Mental fitness and physical fitness are separate issues, and most players who might have one or the other, rarely think ahead enough to bother maximizing both sides. It does take physical stamina to play for many hours at a time, whether you're competing against your buddies, playing in a tournament, or serious gambling. However, mental toughness, comes at a cost...and, imo, is best developed by creating the confidence that comes with experience playing (in varying table conditions), under several kinds of pressure, and complemented with an accurate, repeatable stroke. All are critical elements, but the stroke is maybe the most important...at least initially, because it then allows the player to "feel good" about how they are contacting the CB, which then helps build confidence in the other areas.

Hope this helps...

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>
Scott: There's a lot of literature available on how to play better pool. However, the physical fitness aspect doesn't seem to get any attention though it's important too. Are there any physical fitness regimens that you can recommend that are particulary well-suited for pool players? Thanks.

DickLeonard
07-31-2006, 05:34 AM
Voodo Daddy Mike Tyson went down hill after he switched to Don King. He dumped Kevin Rooney as his trainer and never trained seriously after that.

Tiger Woods had coaching for years, Butch Harmon was the last I remember. No one is more dedicated to practicing than Vijay Singh, finish a round and then spend three hours hitting balls.####

Voodoo Daddy
07-31-2006, 11:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Voodo Daddy Mike Tyson went down hill after he switched to Don King. He dumped Kevin Rooney as his trainer and never trained seriously after that.

Tiger Woods had coaching for years, Butch Harmon was the last I remember. No one is more dedicated to practicing than Vijay Singh, finish a round and then spend three hours hitting balls.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Don King WAS Tyson's demise ####, your 100% right. Vijay is as dedicated to his craft as anyone anywhere and I am sure he benifits from a trained eye from time to time.

wayne crimi
08-01-2006, 02:13 PM
I don't think the big story is how poorly the Americans did. US pros don't play much 8 ball and the 14.1 players that have more of required skills are getting kind of old as a group.

I think the bigger story is how well the Philipinos did. They were a relatively small percentage of the tournament starters, yet a bunch of them were still alive very late into the action. As far as I know, neither 14.1 or 8-ball is their main game either.

HOWARD
08-01-2006, 04:32 PM
Perhaps, it has many influences. One, not as many U.S. kids are playing. Which means the ones with the nack and the drive and love are not as plentiful.

Also the rest of the world is now inbracing pool working hard at it. Meaning there are more with the nack, love and drive playing world wide.

Also I think games like poker pull a lot of the potential pool players away because of the money in poker and the lack of it in pool. Pool players do like to have a little spice with their game.

Howard

Scott Lee
08-01-2006, 09:27 PM
Allen...Nothing specific to poolplayers...just any daily routine that would include some kind of exercise, besides just walking around the table. Personally, I like a short aerobic workout, and perhaps a swim every other day. Naturally some kind of reasonable diet and a decent sleep cycle will help too.

Scott Lee

pooltchr
08-02-2006, 06:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Naturally some kind of reasonable diet and a decent sleep cycle will help too.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Scott...how many pool players do you know with that kind of lifestyle? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Pool players sleep in late, are out playing pool until late at night, eat burgers and wings at the pool room, very few that I know are what you would describe as being physically fit. (myself included)
That is going to have to change if players are expecting to be competitive in a format like the IPT just held. Marathon days of non-stop playing will require us to either get in shape or get left in the dust.
Steve

Qtec
08-02-2006, 07:22 AM
Even if 'several' players, possibly, did deals, should that really make an impact on a field of 200?

Q

Eric.
08-02-2006, 08:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I kind of wonder if constantly playing on tables with larger than normal pockets (American 9-ball) is what is hurting the Americans. Because they are used to fast cloth maybe?

I have not seen the matches. What is happening that is causing the Americans to lose their matches?

Are they not pocketing balls sometimes? Are they not shooting hard enough sometimes for the slow cloth (ball not reaching pocket or CB not going far enough)?
<hr /></blockquote>

Not shooting hard enough?! Fer crissakes, we're not taking about APA 3's playing 5's...


Familiarity with the nuances of 8 ball is playing a big part. Case in point, J Kirkwood has played a lot of 8 ball recently (APA, etc) and placed well in the last IPT event, beating some good players. If he matched up wit hthe same players playing 9 ball, I would guess that Kirkwood, although still competitive, would not have the same results.


Eric &gt;IMO

Eric.
08-02-2006, 08:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Even if 'several' players, possibly, did deals, should that really make an impact on a field of 200?

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, Q, yes.

If you think about it, let's say there was a player that is on the cusp of not advancing in the round robin format. Then, let's say that his last match is with his buddy and his buddy is already through to the next round. His buddy can now dump to give the player a win by a big margin(tiebreaker) and beat out another player that might have made it thru instead but is now eliminated.


Eric

Sid_Vicious
08-02-2006, 10:05 AM
I never suggested my attitude was correct, just that it is what it is. As far as other long term players possibly being the same...I've had several players with "some game", most bigger than mine say, "THAT guy can't teach me anything!, he can't beat me." I took that to imply that there are a lot of people who feel they have it all inside and don't need an advisor. Anyone with the interest, drive and fortitude to be the absolute best they can be, should undoubtedly reach out to others for observance and advice. I'm just not there today, and that's my own decision as wrong as it may be...sid

PoolSharkAllen
08-02-2006, 10:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Naturally some kind of reasonable diet and a decent sleep cycle will help too.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Scott...how many pool players do you know with that kind of lifestyle? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Pool players sleep in late, are out playing pool until late at night, eat burgers and wings at the pool room, very few that I know are what you would describe as being physically fit. (myself included)
That is going to have to change if players are expecting to be competitive in a format like the IPT just held. Marathon days of non-stop playing will require us to either get in shape or get left in the dust.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Scott: Thanks for your comments. Steve did touch on an important point in that many pool players actually lead an unhealthy lifestyle. They smoke, drink, eat a lot of junk food, play until the wee hours of the morning, and gamble too.

Does anyone know if strength training using free weights and machines provides any proven benefits to one's breaking game in 9-ball and 8-ball? Would even more strength training produce improve one's breaking game even further?

Also, following up on an earlier question about stamina during all-day matches, when one gets tired doesn't the stroke go downhill too along with the rest of your game?

Sid_Vicious
08-02-2006, 11:07 AM
"They smoke, drink, eat a lot of junk food, play until the wee hours of the morning, and gamble too."

There-in lies the fun for many poeple with mundane lives away from the PH. If all of that was eliminated, the business may very well go belly-up. Jm2c...sid

Deeman3
08-02-2006, 11:16 AM
Scott...how many pool players do you know with that kind of lifestyle?
Pool players sleep in late, are out playing pool until late at night, eat burgers and wings at the pool room, very few that I know are what you would describe as being physically fit. (myself included)
That is going to have to change if players are expecting to be competitive in a format like the IPT just held. Marathon days of non-stop playing will require us to either get in shape or get left in the dust.
Steve

<font color="blue"> I remember the first time I saw/met Johnny Archer. He was and is a fine young man that I believe follows a very healthy and moderate lifestyle. I think it has rewarded him well. The fact that other countries and other players are catching up or even surpassing us is not much of a surprise as there are very few who follow a disciplined lifestyle focused on sharpening and maintaining their game and skills over a lifetime.

While I enjoy as much as anyone the traditional American dominance in pool, any of us who were fortunate to spend a few years in Europe and Asia knew this day would come. I think anything that pushes the game further and challenges our best to develop thier games to another level is a very good thing. The Asian and European player sthat are now dominating are doingf so for one reason, they deserve it.

Deeman

DSAPOLIS
08-02-2006, 12:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Even if 'several' players, possibly, did deals, should that really make an impact on a field of 200?

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Of course it would. Why don't you explain how it wouldn't impact the rankings. For the record, its not "possibly" - deals are made at every event - due to side bets, calcuttas, players working in groups, etc. In the matter of the IPT, it is more money, and this practice is more profitable to players that are willing to cut a deal to allow others to move further into the rounds. The further that your "buddy" makes it in the event, the more profitable it is for you - that is if you were smart enough to make a deal with somebody of equal or greater skill that was willing to share/split his winnings. $7.5 K - $10K is more than enough money to make some of these players very happy to bow out in rounds 2 and 3. The pay off works like a pyramid. Saying that is merely "possible" is being naive. Not all of the players are out there chasing trophies and glory. It comes down to how much cash they can get - I'm not saying that its right - I'm just saying that it happens all the time. I believe that in the end this will devalue the IPT (if it contnues). Its just too much money too fast - and ts too easy for guys to double their earnings without having to play for the cash.

wayne crimi
08-02-2006, 02:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Even if 'several' players, possibly, did deals, should that really make an impact on a field of 200?

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, Q, yes.

If you think about it, let's say there was a player that is on the cusp of not advancing in the round robin format. Then, let's say that his last match is with his buddy and his buddy is already through to the next round. His buddy can now dump to give the player a win by a big margin(tiebreaker) and beat out another player that might have made it thru instead but is now eliminated.


Eric <hr /></blockquote>

I have two comments about this.

1. It would be a terrible for pool if players are already screwing up the IPT (the best thing to ever happen to these guys) by dumping games to maximize their own profits via friends etc...

2. Knowing pool players, I wouldn't put it past them to be this shortsighted and dumb.

sofy60
08-08-2006, 04:20 PM
My guess is multi faceted.

first I think in recent history there is no money in this sport. In 2004 only a few players made more than 100 grand a year. Then with expensive travel . hotels. entry fees . it gets expensive. Not all these guys have quality sponsorship.. Its usually BS .. sticks . t shirts ect..
No money equals No talent. Once they raised the purse with the ipt tour it gave many many players a motive.
Money motivates people and many great non IPT players are busting there backs to get better and tuned up to play the tour in 2007
by 2010 my prediction is the quality of play will be much much better than it is now. If big prize money and a future in pool becomes more possible the effort will go up.

The reason the Phillipines players are so good is that the pay to them is AWESOME. When Efrin Reyes wins 100k here in the USA thats like a million back home in phillipines. These guys from foreign countries are making some big jack over here in the USA. They play 12 hours a day and are hungry. And they are being rewarded when they get 3rd place pretty darn well.
The same reward to an American player is pittens. The Jacksonville Predator open a few months back only paid 8k to the winner.. and it was $250 to enter
This isnt prize money this is your money.. Its just nothing but gambling.. all these billiard events are nothing more than gambling prior to the IPT.
The US open this year is 500 bucks to enter. There is no prize money its just gambling. You can do this at home with your 500 bucks and if you beat 10 people in a row and double up each time you win alot more money than the US open pays.

sorry for ranting. Tiger woods doesnt have to cough up 5 thousand every time he enters a contest does he ?

Stretch
08-08-2006, 06:39 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sofy60:</font><hr> My guess is multi faceted.

first I think in recent history there is no money in this sport. In 2004 only a few players made more than 100 grand a year. Then with expensive travel . hotels. entry fees . it gets expensive. Not all these guys have quality sponsorship.. Its usually BS .. sticks . t shirts ect..
No money equals No talent. Once they raised the purse with the ipt tour it gave many many players a motive.
Money motivates people and many great non IPT players are busting there backs to get better and tuned up to play the tour in 2007
by 2010 my prediction is the quality of play will be much much better than it is now. If big prize money and a future in pool becomes more possible the effort will go up.

The reason the Phillipines players are so good is that the pay to them is AWESOME. When Efrin Reyes wins 100k here in the USA thats like a million back home in phillipines. These guys from foreign countries are making some big jack over here in the USA. They play 12 hours a day and are hungry. And they are being rewarded when they get 3rd place pretty darn well.
The same reward to an American player is pittens. The Jacksonville Predator open a few months back only paid 8k to the winner.. and it was $250 to enter
This isnt prize money this is your money.. Its just nothing but gambling.. all these billiard events are nothing more than gambling prior to the IPT.
The US open this year is 500 bucks to enter. There is no prize money its just gambling. You can do this at home with your 500 bucks and if you beat 10 people in a row and double up each time you win alot more money than the US open pays.

sorry for ranting. Tiger woods doesnt have to cough up 5 thousand every time he enters a contest does he ? <hr /></blockquote>

Depressing, but true. St.