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View Full Version : How to Eliminate Safety Play ?



9ballphotog
08-02-2006, 07:06 PM
I am sure this has been discussed many times before, but since I am new, I will ask again. Are there any tournament rules that eliminate safety play? If I remember correctly, didn't Grady Mathews have a 9ball tournament where you had to sink a ball on every shot . . . I ask because I just watched a WPBA tourney and the saftety play went on for ever. Although they were very skilled, it was like watching paint dry. Any thoughts on how the WPBA can speed up the game?

recoveryjones
08-03-2006, 01:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9ballphotog:</font><hr> I am sure this has been discussed many times before, but since I am new, I will ask again. Are there any tournament rules that eliminate safety play? If I remember correctly, didn't Grady Mathews have a 9ball tournament where you had to sink a ball on every shot . . . I ask because I just watched a WPBA tourney and the saftety play went on for ever. Although they were very skilled, it was like watching paint dry. Any thoughts on how the WPBA can speed up the game? <hr /></blockquote>

The only game I know where you have to try sink a ball every shot is 7 ball.Also ring ten ball games don't allow intentional safties.

I've seen some really enjoyable back and forth kick hook classic saftey battles that were really exciting. If people are executing great shots, whether it be a pot an excellent saftey or a kick it can be all interesting.Sometimes I find such saftey battles a lot more excitng than monotinous runout after runout.

If people on the other hand are just plain out missing their should be runouts,getting out of line etc and not executing and then playing safe, yes I agree with you that can get tedious and is ugly to the eye.

A classic saftey battle between two top notch pros, is beautiful to behold.
RJ

1hit1der
08-03-2006, 08:08 AM
7 ball lets you call 1 safety per rack. And if you don't pocket a ball on your shot, the other player gets ball in hand. I don't know if it works that way for the 10 ball ring games though.

Rich R.
08-03-2006, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1hit1der:</font><hr> 7 ball lets you call 1 safety per rack. And if you don't pocket a ball on your shot, the other player gets ball in hand. I don't know if it works that way for the 10 ball ring games though. <hr /></blockquote>
No, it doesn't normally work that way for 10 ball ring games. However, as with most games, as long as the participating players agree, you can make up any rules you want.

Billy_Bob
08-03-2006, 08:24 AM
I've been to local tournaments where safeties are not allowed and you must "try to pocket a ball with every shot".

This does *nothing* to stop the better players from shooting safeties. They can make it appear they are trying for a pocket, yet the object ball misses and the cue ball winds up in a nasty spot. Then they say "I just can't make a shot today!" They walk away from the table troubled by their terrible shooting or so it appears. Actually they are pleased as punch with their good safety.

The lesser skilled players can only shoot more obvious safeties or can't shoot safeties at all.

Basically the no safety rule give an advantage to the better players.

I'd rather have safeties allowed and out in the open. Then people don't need to pretend they are attempting to pocket a ball.

Also try to ref something like this. How can you determine if someone *intended* to pocket a ball and missed -vs- was intentionally shooting a safety and trying to make it appear they were trying to pocket a ball?

Then you get into the situation where someone intended to pocket a ball but missed, and they are accused of shooting a safety. Then the sparks fly! I don't call this fun.

Snapshot9
08-03-2006, 09:30 AM
Yeah, a big bar here that has six table in it, tried to run a race to 1 8 ball tournaemnt using the OLD BAR RULES, before leagues come along, and the better players just laughed because they all know how to play the game so that they win, like was mentioned before, missing on purpose and hiding the cue, or just leaving a shot your opponent could not make.
It was a good tournament for quite awhile, paid good for a weekly, $100-180, until the TD (who played in the tournament) started barring any good player that played better than he did, one by one, until he was the best one left. I think about 10-12 guys ended up being barred from the tournament, too good, he said.

bsmutz
08-03-2006, 10:23 AM
Since you are new &amp; from my favorite place to live, I'll cut you some slack... However, you will find that most people that post on pool boards aren't all that concerned about speeding up the few pool shows that we get to see on TV. To most of us, we'd rather see the tournament live rather than taped and see the whole thing instead of them editing out games or portions of games to make it fit in an hour time slot. Personally, I don't mind seeing players get out of shape or miss shots on TV because it makes me feel better about my game where I miss shape and shots. It also helps with figuring out various ways of handling the situation when you are out of shape and don't have a shot from a professional's viewpoint. Safeties are an important part of the game and with a lot of people using jump cues, it becomes even more important to play safe correctly. Watching both how professionals play safe and how they get out of a lock up safety are of great interest to me.

suckershot
08-04-2006, 12:39 AM
Safety play is a part of the game; get used to it. As mentioned, in ring games, it's generally a no-no to shoot a safety. But players can attempt to pocket a ball playing a two way shot where if they miss, they get safe.

But why eliminate safety play? That only encourages banging balls.

Fran Crimi
08-04-2006, 07:26 AM
Players tend to play more cautious when they get to the pro events. However, I don't think they are being ridiculous about it. Next time you're watching a pro event, try to figure out what the player should do. Do you think they chose to play a safety when they could have made a shot? I think you'll find that they really do want to run out the rack and win, but when there's no shot, there's no shot. Should they just take a whack at a ball and hope for the best? That would be like throwing their entry fees away, don't you think, (Not to mention any prize money they could win)?

You can't just say well, then change the rules and nobody gets to play safeties. That doesn't even out the playing field. It just brings more luck into the equation and makes things more uneven than ever.

Fran

wolfdancer
08-04-2006, 08:05 AM
Some folks are bored by a 1-0 score in baseball, or a 7-3 game in football, while the true aficionado, enjoys seeing the defensive gems in each.
I had an Accu-stat tape with Varner-Reyes.....not only good safety play, but great 2 and 3 rails kicks to hook the other guy right back. Also had a Rempe/Archer tape with both players shooting over .900
The two tapes were equally entertaining.
I played in a weekly tournament on wed, a race to three, and it was obvious, the other guy lacked any defense. He broke and ran, then I broke, miscued on my first shot, he ran out, then broke and ran....As my fame spreads up here, this has been happening more often. They fear my game so much, they won't let me get to the table.
now about them boring 1/0 Soccer games....

Tom_In_Cincy
08-04-2006, 09:52 AM
You must really hate to watch or play One Pocket.

Have you been back to read any of these great replies?

One Post and OUT...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9ballphotog:</font><hr> I am sure this has been discussed many times before, but since I am new, I will ask again. Are there any tournament rules that eliminate safety play? If I remember correctly, didn't Grady Mathews have a 9ball tournament where you had to sink a ball on every shot . . . I ask because I just watched a WPBA tourney and the saftety play went on for ever. Although they were very skilled, it was like watching paint dry. Any thoughts on how the WPBA can speed up the game? <hr /></blockquote>

Bumps
08-04-2006, 06:58 PM
Somebody, I forget who, said "If you don't learn to play safe, you must hate your cash." or words to that effect. Seems to me that Fats said something similar, once.

sofy60
08-08-2006, 12:38 PM
had to try to pocket a ball every shot and were pretending to pocket but playing safe ?

that makes no sense. I dont think your aware of the rules of the tournament. There must be a penalty for not pocketing a ball like ball in hand ..

Texas holdem 9 ball ring game is ball in hand on a miss and no safety.

Safetys are the best thing about pool. Nothing is better than sticking your opponent with an unhittable shot.

suckershot
08-08-2006, 11:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sofy60:</font><hr> had to try to pocket a ball every shot and were pretending to pocket but playing safe ?

that makes no sense. I dont think your aware of the rules of the tournament. There must be a penalty for not pocketing a ball like ball in hand ..

Texas holdem 9 ball ring game is ball in hand on a miss and no safety.

Safetys are the best thing about pool. Nothing is better than sticking your opponent with an unhittable shot.
<hr /></blockquote>

Well, there typically is no such rule in ring games regarding missing balls. As far as I know, that was a rule only used for said Texas Hold'Em Billiards event. So, in ring games, you can play what is commonly referred to as a "moral safe", which is essentially another way of saying a 2-way shot, or trying to pocket while leaving yourself nice if you make it but leaving the next guy tough if you miss. I guess it could also mean you're not really trying to pocket and just leave it tough, but it really can't be too obvious.

I still think it was a silly rule for the THEB to do BIH on all missed shots. I mean come on, a guy breaks bad where no balls go in and you get impossibly snookered and have to give the next guy BIH? At the pro level, unless there are some real problem areas, that usually means a run out. As I understand it, there were no BIH's awarded after a dry break, and what I said above was Johnny Archer's complaint, I believe. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

But yes, I would have to agree that safeties are a very important part of the game, and a tool that can be very good. Why (as long as we're not referring to ring games anymore) take a flyer shot as opposed to a safe which could potentially buy you BIH? Play some one pocket; you may find there is no greater feeling than hooking your opponent so bad they have no choice but to leave you a shot (or take an intentional foul I suppose).

Bumps
08-10-2006, 12:36 PM
Play the old style push-out, 2 foul rules. Eliminates a lot of the dumb-ass luck in 9 ball and gives more options on a buried cue ball. AND IT MAKES YOU THINK!!!

Qtec
08-11-2006, 04:41 AM
Maybe if we make the posts at the Super Bowl 40 yrds wide, then we would have more goals?
Would that be more exciting?

Safety play is part of the game.

Q

Bumps
08-11-2006, 07:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Maybe if we make the posts at the Super Bowl 40 yrds wide, then we would have more goals?
Would that be more exciting?

Safety play is part of the game.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

I know you're being sarcastic, but the width of the goal posts has nothing to do with it. Safety play is part of the game, but the bih rules are rediculous. The old rules gave you many more options than just having to hit the "on" ball. You had to think more about your own ability and that of your opponent. About what shot he was capable of making or missing, cue ball control, etc. Again, you had to THINK more. I know this bothers a great many 9 ball players, they hate to have to think, they just want it to be automatic. Try playing the old rules. Ball in hand anywhere was invented for tv and to speed up the game, which ruined 9 ball in the opinion of a lot of people. I've taught people to play the old rules who had never even heard of them, and they agreed it was a much better game.