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homepc
08-15-2006, 06:07 AM
What do people use to maintain good condition of thier tips? I'm looking for a tool to use for shape and burnish. Also, I'm looking for a shaft conditioner. I was just curious what people use and what seems to work best.

thanks
ray

ras314
08-15-2006, 08:02 AM
I'll throw a different tool in the mix. I use a leatherman tool file to shape the tip, especially if a layered tip. File down from the top to the sides being careful to keep the tip symmetrical. I usually carry it along with some coarse sandpaper for the hard smooth tips on house cues. The tip pick will help a hard smooth tip.

Once a shaft is smooth all I've ever used for a "conditioner" is a towel, preferably a micro fiber version.

The side of the leatherman works ok for burnishing.

If at home I use a cue lathe, doesn't work much better but is a lot faster.

catscradle
08-16-2006, 12:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote homepc:</font><hr> What do people use to maintain good condition of thier tips? I'm looking for a tool to use for shape and burnish. Also, I'm looking for a shaft conditioner. I was just curious what people use and what seems to work best.

thanks
ray <hr /></blockquote>

Nothing, once it has been shaped once. I think it was Deno Andrews (IPT fame) who once posted that he never shaped his tip, but rather let his style of play determine the shape of the tip. I put my tip tools aside for a while and tried it. I was pleased with the results and never shape the tip anymore. I will sometimes rough it up to help it hold chalk, but not shape it.

Sid_Vicious
08-16-2006, 01:33 PM
"I totally concur Dr. Watson!" sid /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran Crimi
08-16-2006, 01:53 PM
I don't know what kind of tip Deno uses but my guess would be typical 3C preferred hardness... which is hard. I also find it hard to believe that someone as knowledgable as Deno would say he never shapes his tip. I'd bet he meant it in some other context. But never? I seriously doubt it.

If you use a medium to med-hard tip, you do have to shape it or you'll eventually be shooting with a flat tip. That is a fact.

Fran

catscradle
08-17-2006, 06:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> I don't know what kind of tip Deno uses but my guess would be typical 3C preferred hardness... which is hard. I also find it hard to believe that someone as knowledgable as Deno would say he never shapes his tip. I'd bet he meant it in some other context. But never? I seriously doubt it.

If you use a medium to med-hard tip, you do have to shape it or you'll eventually be shooting with a flat tip. That is a fact.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Not necessarily so. I'm pretty sure it was Deno, but it may have been Lou Figeroa. Either way a knowledgable player.
His contention was that if you use a lot of center ball your tip will get flatter (though not completely flat), BUT that is the appropriate shape for somebody who shoots a lot of centerball. On the other hand, if you play with a lot of spin, the tip will get rounder from striking with the edges, and that is appropriate for a person using a lot of english.
Hey, I'm no expert; I just know I tried it and it works very well for me. I literally never shape my tip after the tip installer does and I never have a flat tip.

Sid_Vicious
08-17-2006, 06:26 AM
Deno in fact philosophized that very thing to me in person back during a stop-over in Dallas way back when, during a jaunt around Dallas while playing billiards and playing pool together, a very fun guy! He'd been gracious enough to give me my first Moori at that time and the conversation ensued upon my request. Up until then, I was keeping my tip guy(s) happy with frequent visits for replacements, I had about every tool imaginable for tweaking on tips in my case. No more, I just use a hard tip, shape it once after break-in(rarely though), but after that, the tip plays into my stroke(poor tip /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif). Maybe Deno will hop in and elaborate or confirm in person here sometime...sid~~~installs tips for $$$ now and mildly thinks(Yea saw on that tip guy, good return business /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Fran Crimi
08-17-2006, 06:40 AM
Well, at first glance, the theory almost makes sense but there's something I can't quite put my finger on that doesn't make it work. I don't know what it is yet, but if I were you, I wouldn't take that theory to the bank, even if you think it's working for you. I don't know your game so I can't comment any more about that.

Fran

HiZoot
08-17-2006, 11:32 AM
It was Deno on RSB. IIRC, his advice was that after the initial shaping, one should only shape the tip once more after break in, and then never shape or scuff it again.

I more or less follow his advice, although I still scuff my tips once in a while.

I also make sure to dampen the sides of the tip and then burnish them to a high gloss using a leather pad at least once a week. I find this really helps the tip to retain it's shape.

Fran Crimi
08-17-2006, 08:24 PM
Does anybody know of any professional pool players (pocket billiards) who don't shape their tips?

Fran

catscradle
08-18-2006, 04:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HiZoot:</font><hr>....I also make sure to dampen the sides of the tip and then burnish them to a high gloss using a leather pad at least once a week. I find this really helps the tip to retain it's shape. <hr /></blockquote>

Never thought of that. Though I do burnish my shaft at least weekly, which as a side product also results in the tip being burnished I suppose.

DickLeonard
08-18-2006, 06:11 AM
Fran I have said this before about playing with a Black Diamond tip 40 years ago. It was on a 12 dollar two-piece cue owned by Albany Legend, Charles "Charlie Mumbles" Ravita . Absolutely the best tip I ever played with, it is still embedded in the stored part of my brain. In my opinion it was worth more than any cue made. I am still searching for that tip, in the three years I had the occasion to use the tip it showed no sign of wear so it is still out there somewhere.####

onepocketfanatic
08-18-2006, 01:42 PM
I have Jerry Olivier (cue maker) put on my tips (he lives close by)and he shapes it after installing it. I use a very hard tip (killer), so all I ever do is pick it, never shape it. I just play pool, and pick it every couple of weeks to hold the chalk.

Sid_Vicious
08-18-2006, 08:15 PM
Stroke pure(use chalk of course) and the pick is the last habit you'll have to learn to live without. Jus' tellin' ya like it is...sid~~~just can't see why most people HAVE to do SUMTHIN' to tips for a crutch

DavidB
08-24-2006, 01:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Well, at first glance, the theory almost makes sense but there's something I can't quite put my finger on that doesn't make it work. I don't know what it is yet, but if I were you, I wouldn't take that theory to the bank, even if you think it's working for you. I don't know your game so I can't comment any more about that.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I’m a “center ball” player most of the time. This does flatten my tip. I usually use medium Mori’s. Once the tip starts to flatten out it is harder for me to impart strong draw and side english on the cue so I reshape the tip to about a dime size. The center ball hit is still just as easy to impart and the action for draw and english strokes is much easier.

Fran Crimi
08-24-2006, 04:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DavidB:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Well, at first glance, the theory almost makes sense but there's something I can't quite put my finger on that doesn't make it work. I don't know what it is yet, but if I were you, I wouldn't take that theory to the bank, even if you think it's working for you. I don't know your game so I can't comment any more about that.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I’m a “center ball” player most of the time. This does flatten my tip. I usually use medium Mori’s. Once the tip starts to flatten out it is harder for me to impart strong draw and side english on the cue so I reshape the tip to about a dime size. The center ball hit is still just as easy to impart and the action for draw and english strokes is much easier. <hr /></blockquote>

Right. That's what I was thinking. I don't think I play that close to center so much of the time, but nonetheless my tip wears down. I think you can flatten your tip as well by playing slightly off-center and by using the swipe method of applying sidespin. Then, if you don't shape it, I believe it's less efficient when you attempt to use backspin or sidespin.

I don't know if players realize how much easier it is to draw and spin the cb when the tip is rounded. It is SO much less work.

Fran

Rich R.
08-24-2006, 07:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>Right. That's what I was thinking. I don't think I play that close to center so much of the time, but nonetheless my tip wears down. I think you can flatten your tip as well by playing slightly off-center and by using the swipe method of applying sidespin. Then, if you don't shape it, I believe it's less efficient when you attempt to use backspin or sidespin.

I don't know if players realize how much easier it is to draw and spin the cb when the tip is rounded. It is SO much less work. <hr /></blockquote>
I have to agree with Fran.

I wasn't going to join this debate because I really don't feel qualified, but that has never stopped me before.

I'm not a great player, let alone a pro or an instructor. However, I have been playing off and on for many years and I have used a number of different tips and cues. I am also not a constant tip picker or grinder type of person.

At this point in my playing, I don't even have to look at the tip to know it needs reshaping. When my tip gets too far out of shape, my play drops off by a fairly great margin. Once I reshape the tip, my level of play returns. It is as simple as that.

Based on this, I can totally disagree with those that say the tip forms the best shape for their game. Or, at the very least, the tip doesn't form the best shape for my game.

Fran Crimi
08-25-2006, 07:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
When my tip gets too far out of shape, my play drops off by a fairly great margin. Once I reshape the tip, my level of play returns. It is as simple as that.
<hr /></blockquote>


Yup. Me too. I can't imagine that you and I are the only ones whose tips get out of round. Sometimes it's very subtle and I notice it in my play before I actually notice it on the tip.

Fran

BLACKHEART
08-25-2006, 08:55 AM
I really do love players that take the shaft out of their bags &amp; start to sand, grind, pick &amp; shape that tip. When I see that, I know it won't be long before he's knockin' on my door, wanting to hand over his cash for a new tip. Please keep grindin'. If it ain't broke, DON'T FIX IT. I personally just shaped MY tip this morning. I personally feel after 20 years of making Qs, I have found the best tip I've ever played with. It's a Tiger Sniper. Oh by the way my tip is 7 months old &amp; this is the 1st time I've reshaped it. I do use a taper once a week though.(Hi Fran)...JER

Fran Crimi
08-25-2006, 09:02 AM
Hi Jer...

Well, heck, Jer, if you only played twice in the past 7 months, of course you don't have to shape your tip. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't know what to tell you, Jer. All I know is that it's not my imagination that my tip goes flat and it's not my imagination that I draw the ball better when it's rounded.

Fran ~~~ Grinding away and playing better pool

BLACKHEART
08-25-2006, 10:45 AM
Hi Fran; I play 5 times a week 2-3 hours a day. It's not that I don't play often, it's just that I'm SO DAMNED OLD, I must hit the ball SOFTLY. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'm goin' out to the shop &amp; hit that tip with a hammer, til it's flat. That ought to bolster my ego a bit. I'll show you I can flatten that baby. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif...JER

DavidB
08-25-2006, 11:19 AM
What amazes me is that so many people make replacing a tip such a big deal. They’ll spend hundreds, thousands on a cue but replacing a tip is like breaking the bank. I agree with Fran and Rich that tips do lose their shape, the softer the quicker that happens. I’ll reshape mine every month or two and about once a year I replace the Mori at a cost of about $15 bucks or so. To me the cost is insignificant. I'll blow that much on table time in an evenig.

BLACKHEART
08-25-2006, 11:51 AM
I have replaced 3 ferrules this week because players want to save a buck, by not replacing the tips. So what happens, the tip gets too worn down &amp; the ferrule cracks. It's foolish. It shouldn't surprise me though, because I see people spending $50 a nite on booze &amp; table time, but say they can't afford a Q of their own...JER