PDA

View Full Version : NSA



Qtec
08-18-2006, 06:13 AM
It seems tht GW's wiretapping excapade has been deemed ILLEGAL.
When is he going to turn himself in? Surely a WH arrest would be too embarrassing!

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif..not holding my breath for GW to do the right thing! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Deeman3
08-18-2006, 07:52 AM
I think the strategy is to appeal this until the next president gets in office and then let the plots go unwatched.

DeeMan

Gayle in MD
08-18-2006, 07:57 AM
Yeah, now we're going to have to watch the repub's turn this into a liberal judge's attack on Bush's ability to protect us! Even though we all know he went into that office intending to grab more presidential power, and the issue isn't about whether he can spy, but about his spying without any oversight!

Rubber stamp Congressional undersight is a dangerous thing. If it continues, we won't have to worry about the terrorists hating us for our freedom, we won't have any left!

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
08-18-2006, 08:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It seems tht GW's wiretapping excapade has been deemed ILLEGAL. <hr /></blockquote> The terrorists have won again. Now they can freely call US citizens, not having to worry about wiretaps, and set up the next plan.

eg8r

Drop1
08-18-2006, 07:20 PM
The terrorists won,when we went into Iraq,knowing terrorism is multi national,and supported through out the Mid East.

Gayle in MD
08-19-2006, 04:41 AM
Yep, and they also win when you have people so ill informed, that they don't realize that no judge is preventing wire taps, but rather requiring the oversight which the law requires, for the protection of our laws, our Constitution, and the prevention of unchecked abuse of power which could be used against us.

Gayle in Md.

moblsv
08-19-2006, 04:51 AM
You just don't understand the world we live in. In times like these who can be bothered with a piece of paper like the Consitution, or tablets like the Ten Commandments?

----- A couple of reminders -----

Article II
Section. 1.
Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section. 4.
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Gayle in MD
08-19-2006, 05:34 AM
Amen! I wouldn't want any president, Republican, or Democrat, to manage to grab the unchecked power that the Republican Majority has insured for George Bush! If intentionally lying to us all about Iraq, breaking FISA laws, refusing to abide by Congressional law, and failing to protect our Constitutional rights, and gaurantees, doesn't rise to the level of impeachable offenses, then what the hell does??? And, if that doesn't do it, is there any language in there which supports impeachment in the instance of incompetence???

Gayle in Md....Still mad as hell, /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif still love my country, /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif still want bin Laden to pay for what he did to it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Chopstick
08-19-2006, 06:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> It seems tht GW's wiretapping excapade has been deemed ILLEGAL.
When is he going to turn himself in? Surely a WH arrest would be too embarrassing!

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif..not holding my breath for GW to do the right thing! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

This is just some idiot judge looking for their 5 minutes of fame. It will be overturned. I don't see what all the fuss is about. The phone company can tap your line any time they want to and always could. It is their equipment.

The NSA has been tapping communications all over the world for over 30 years. It's not even a secret. Nobody ever gave a crap about it. The Dems are ignoring this fact and trying to make it look like GW is listening and not the NSA/CIA/FBI. It's just plain silly.

Qtec
08-19-2006, 06:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> It seems tht GW's wiretapping excapade has been deemed ILLEGAL.
When is he going to turn himself in? Surely a WH arrest would be too embarrassing!

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif..not holding my breath for GW to do the right thing! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

This is just some idiot judge looking for their 5 minutes of fame. It will be overturned. I don't see what all the fuss is about. The phone company can tap your line any time they want to and always could. It is their equipment. <font color="blue"> a. I don't think they can'tap'your phone. b. Why would they want to? </font color>

The NSA has been tapping communications all over the world for over 30 years. <font color="blue"> Yeah, all over the world! In the US they need a warrant. </font color> It's not even a secret. Nobody ever gave a crap about it. The Dems are ignoring this fact and trying to make it look like GW is listening and not the NSA/CIA/FBI. It's just plain silly. <hr /></blockquote>

Plain silly?
Lets say this goes to the Supreme court[ actually I thought it already had?!]. Anyway, the Govt knows this is coming up and it could mean possible impeachment of the Pres if the judgement goes against them. Lets say they have been monitoring all the judges and one of them is a closet homo who likes young boys!
Would they hesitate to use this information for their own benefit?
If the Govt can tap and monitor without accountability, Democracy is a mirage.

If you think the State knows better, you are definately leaning towards Communism or Facism.

Q.......just tapping Wall Street brokers could make someone very rich, very quickly. The possibilites for abuse and endless.

Qtec
08-19-2006, 07:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
It seems tht GW's wiretapping excapade has been deemed ILLEGAL. <hr /></blockquote> The terrorists have won again. Now they can freely call US citizens, not having to worry about wiretaps, and set up the next plan.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>
The Govt has EVERY means to track terrorists. From the last 600 requests for warrants only 3 were denied.
The biggest threat to freedom in the US is if GW gets what he wants. He wants a file on EVERYONE. Sounds like the USSR and the KGB to be! Bring back Hoover!!!!!!!!!!
If you have the phone records of 150 million citizens, you only have to punch in a number and you have a complet record of who they called and who called them.

The terrorists win when we change our way of life because of what THEY do! You Rep wimps want us all to live in fear and shake in our boots every time an OBL video comes out! F^2k that!
You guys are the appeasers because you give in to their tactics and react how they would WANT you to react!
Some beard in a cave speaks and you want us all to give up all the rights that people have fought for 100's of years!
If GW claims you are safer now, why the need to invade your privacy and erode your civil rights as stated by the Constitution......


BTW, What was the Patriot Act for?

Q......finds it stange that a party who supports Democracy abroad tries to prevent people from voting at home. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
08-19-2006, 07:48 AM
It was after Richard Nixon's abuse of power, and obstruction of justice, in his illegal activities, wire taps, break ins, etc., that the FISA laws were created. He also saw those who spoke out against him as his enemies, and used slander to bring them down, and used government agencies to do so. It cost this country plenty, in terms of threats to our freedom, privacy, and honor. In short, he was a threat to our Constitution, and hence, to our Democratic principles.

One would think that patriotic Americans would not view this infraction against our Constitutional gaurantees from a partisan slant, as you suggest the Democrats are doing, but as a threat to our own form of government, which is partly protected by the freedon of press in our country, another hallmark of democracy, insurance against fascism, and safegaurds against abuse of power.

I truly don't think that career professionals at NSA, involved in whatever Bush is doing, would have blown the whistle on this illegal activity, by NSA, and Bush, unless they believed that something wasn't right, and should be stopped.

Bush is trying to convince our citizenry that he is only trying to protect us. The problem with that, is that we already know he is a liar, a power monger, and has approved the outing of a Covert CIA Agent, in order to advance his personal agenda, and attack one of his critics, and has failed to implement critical safety measures that the 9/11 Commission advised in order to improve on our safety against another devastating attack. If this is his idea of protecting Americans, I can live without his version of protection. Maybe you think this is a joke, I, Personally, view it as a serious threat, and view him as dishonest, malicious, and generally, without any conscience.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
08-19-2006, 08:02 AM
I thought there was a Supreme Court ruling, also. didn't they rule that the Patriot Act, did not trump Congressional powers of oversight, or the FISA Act?

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
08-21-2006, 06:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The Govt has EVERY means to track terrorists. <hr /></blockquote> EXCEPT wiretapping them when they have discussions with US citizens on US soil. They win again, and your defense of this absurd verdict is a feather in their cap.

[ QUOTE ]
The biggest threat to freedom in the US is if GW gets what he wants. <hr /></blockquote> So foolish. You have nothing more to add because defending terrorists is not the best thing to do, so you change the subject. Were we not discussing wiretapping. Get back on subject.

[ QUOTE ]
The terrorists win ... <hr /></blockquote> When people like you defend their "rights" while they plot to destroy the US and Israel.

[ QUOTE ]
You Rep wimps <hr /></blockquote> LOL, I bet that is exactly how the Taliban, OBL and Saddam are feeling now about the Reps. Such wimps. Is it not pansy-terrorist-appeasing people like yourself that would rather sit down to tea with the terorrist and sanction them for eternity. If you want to name-call, at least choose one that makes sense.

[ QUOTE ]
Some beard in a cave speaks and you want us all to give up all the rights that people have fought for 100's of years! <hr /></blockquote> The stupidity of Q knows no bounds. If the beard in a cave is using a phone to call a US citizen on US soil and is plotting to blow up America then I say wire tap his butt. It is your pansy-terrorist-appeasing pity that says, "leave him alone, he just wants some love".

[ QUOTE ]
If GW claims you are safer now, why the need to invade your privacy and erode your civil rights as stated by the Constitution...... <hr /></blockquote> This is the first time a pansy-terrorist-appeaser has ever worried about the Constitution. If you would just defend the Constitution the other 99.9% of the time your statement might hold some water.

eg8r &lt;~~~does not care what Q finds strange

Chopstick
08-21-2006, 08:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> It seems tht GW's wiretapping excapade has been deemed ILLEGAL.
When is he going to turn himself in? Surely a WH arrest would be too embarrassing!

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif..not holding my breath for GW to do the right thing! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

This is just some idiot judge looking for their 5 minutes of fame. It will be overturned. I don't see what all the fuss is about. The phone company can tap your line any time they want to and always could. It is their equipment.

<font color="blue"> a. I don't think they can'tap'your phone.</font color>
<font color="green"> I assure you that they can and do. </font color>
<font color="blue">b. Why would they want to? </font color>
<font color="green">Fraud Detection and prosecution. If their fraud detection systems flag you they will want to know where you are and what you are doing with their equipment. </font color>

The NSA has been tapping communications all over the world for over 30 years. <font color="blue"> Yeah, all over the world! In the US they need a warrant. </font color>

<font color="green">Did you guys actually read the FISA law you are talking about? </font color>

TITLE 50 &gt; CHAPTER 36 &gt; SUBCHAPTER I &gt; 1811 Prev | Next

1811. Authorization during time of war

Notwithstanding any other law, the President, through the Attorney General, may authorize electronic surveillance without a court order under this subchapter to acquire foreign intelligence information for a period not to exceed fifteen calendar days following a declaration of war by the Congress.


<hr /></blockquote>

Qtec
08-21-2006, 09:06 AM
[ QUOTE ]
following a declaration of war by the Congress <hr /></blockquote>
Did I miss that?!!!!!!!
Has war been declared? Against who?

Can AT&amp;T listen in to your private conversations ?
Are they allowed to? They are a phone company, not law enforcement.
Fraud???????? A stolen phone? Thats a matter for the police I think.

If they have a suspect, all they have to do is ask for a warrant- thats the law.

Q

Qtec
08-21-2006, 09:18 AM
Q, thread starter,
[ QUOTE ]
It seems tht GW's wiretapping excapade has been deemed ILLEGAL<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r,
[ QUOTE ]
Now they can freely call US citizens, not having to worry about wiretaps, and set up the next plan.<hr /></blockquote>

eg8r'
[ QUOTE ]
So foolish. You have nothing more to add because defending terrorists is not the best thing to do, so you change the subject. Were we not discussing wiretapping. Get back on subject<hr /></blockquote>


LMAO. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif????????????

Q

Qtec
08-21-2006, 09:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If the beard in a cave is using a phone to call a US citizen on US soil and is plotting to blow up America then I say wire tap his butt. <hr /></blockquote>

So do I, so does Gayle , Wolf, the Dems, Liberals and any sane person! If the FBI,CIA etc has any suspicions they can get a warrant. What we are against is the indiscriminate power of the Govt to monitor EVERYONE, without accountability or cause.
19 guys with armed with box-cutters and you are willing to give up your rights and give GW powers that the Founding Fathers [ the guys that wrote the big C?] had the foresight to deny any US govt?
If GW has the power to put anyone under surveillance, without any cause- the terrorists have won. You are reacting exactly how they want you to. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Q

Gayle in MD
08-21-2006, 10:17 AM
I would like to know why George Bush refuses to abide by the FISA laws. Fifteen days???? That was up long ago, even if this was a traditional declared war, which it isn't. He has 72 hours to go to the FISA Court after the fact, which he refuses to do. He has broken the law, and done so in secret. If everything he is doing is on the up and up, why was he keeping the Congress in the dark?

I find it astounding, given that the President's first obligation is to protect this country from foriegn invasion, and we are definately being invaded by Mexicans, who, believe that they still own the territories that are now part of the American West, by a very large percentage.

The estimates of illegal aliens crossing our borders from other countries, also is very high. They come from many other parts of the world, with Mexico and Canada serving as their gateway. Low estimates of radical muslims in this country are in the thousands, atleast two thousand, and many other estimates, much higher.

Most Intelligence experts agree, that electronic surviellance, isn't nearly as effective as human intel. In England, they were tipped off with human intel, and followed up with electronic surviellance. Bush knows this, yet he and Dick Cheney still try to use what happened in England, as an excuse for them to break the law with they're illegal spying. No clear case has ever been made by the administration to justify the fact that they knowingly broke the law due to an inability to perform security measures imposed by the FISA laws. Their only case, in a nutshell, has been various versions of "Trust us"
The FISA laws are there because realistic people understand that no one can be trusted with that kind of power.

Even if there had been some delay due to FISA, the law is retroactive! Not one single act of terrorism has been foiled through their law breaking, and not one single arrest made as a result, yet Bush continues to harp on the importance of his spying in order to protect our country. Meanwhile, who knows who, is invading our borders, everyday!
When it comes to Bush, and this country, nothing ever adds up to real protection of its citizens.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
08-21-2006, 11:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So do I, so does Gayle , Wolf, the Dems, Liberals and any sane person! <hr /></blockquote> Just for the record, you don't belong in that group. If you were an American your opinion would matter. However that is not the case so who cares. Now back to the post, the people you mention are the only ones that are objecting. As Chopstick pointed out, a warrant is not needed in a time of war.

[ QUOTE ]
You are reacting exactly how they want you to. <hr /></blockquote> Your appeasment is exactly what they want. Same with the libs of this country. They shameful ways just brings a smile to the face of the terrorists.

eg8r

Qtec
08-21-2006, 01:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Just for the record, you don't belong in that group. <hr /></blockquote>
Did GW die and they made you Emperor? Is your judgement now definitive?

[ QUOTE ]
If you were an American your opinion would matter. <hr /></blockquote>

You dismiss your fellow Americans who have a different viewpoint to yours, the same way you do me. You always use this come-back when you have no answer. Your brain gets overloaded by the obvious contradictions and the same old pointless words come out just to stop our head from exploding! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif.

In case you haven't noticed, Iraq is a soveriegn country. If you don't know what that means, ask GW? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
To simplify for your walnut brain /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, that means its OUTSIDE US BORDERS!
YOU dont get to decide who says what.!
Somehow you think its ok for the US to attack a country 6,000 miles away without cause but I am not allowed to even comment on it?

It really sounds that you are FOR Democracy and freedom!!!!!!!!
Actually, you sound just like the other Reps- on the defensive.
Q.......

eg8r
08-22-2006, 08:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Did GW die and they made you Emperor? Is your judgement now definitive? <hr /></blockquote> It is definitive as I would like.

[ QUOTE ]
You dismiss your fellow Americans who have a different viewpoint to yours, the same way you do me. <hr /></blockquote> This statement does not change the facts, so why waste your time. Their opinions carry more weight than yours every single time. Don't cry because you are left out, why don't you try and solve your own problems first. When you have cleaned your own house you can have an opinion on ours. Until then, who cares what you think or have to say?

[ QUOTE ]
YOU dont get to decide who says what.!
<hr /></blockquote> Hey there genius, no one is deciding who gets to say what. I am just saying your opinion on US matters get no more of a second look than a pile of smoking dung on the street.

[ QUOTE ]
Somehow you think its ok for the US to attack a country 6,000 miles away without cause <hr /></blockquote> This is the type of stupid response we get from you over and over. Do you honestly think if you continue to tell the lie over and over it will be true. This is a lie, and there are over 12 years of sanctions to prove it. It finally took someone with the guts to ACT.

eg8r