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threecushion123
08-25-2006, 10:39 PM
Hi! I am a 3 cushion player (high run 9) from Connecticut. I also play pool (high run 32 in straight pool). This would be my first post as I just registered. Didn't know this forum existed until today. Anyway, I found this place while searching the internet for an answer to an 8-ball rule question. Only looking for an answer per the BCA rules. Maybe some experts here who can help?

Horrible cluster left on the table in an 8-ball game. Guy playing eight ball takes a backscratch by picking up the cueball and handing it to me.

First: is it okay to ever backscratch by picking up the cue ball? Rule 3.29 of the general rules says:

SPECIAL INTENTIONAL FOUL PENALTY
The cue ball in play shall not be intentionally struck with anything other than a cues attached tip (such as the ferrule, shaft, etc.). While such contact is automatically a foul under the provisions of Rule 3.19, if the referee deems the contact to be intentional, he shall warn the player once during a match that a second violation during that match will result in the loss of the match by forfeiture. If a second violation does occur, the match must be forfeited.

Does that apply, and if it does how do you use that when there's no referee (as in, in every game I play).

Second: Is it illegal to backscratch in 8-ball at all?

Thanks

Billy
08-26-2006, 02:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote threecushion123:</font><hr> Hi! I am a 3 cushion player (high run 9) from Connecticut. I also play pool (high run 32 in straight pool). This would be my first post as I just registered. Didn't know this forum existed until today. Anyway, I found this place while searching the internet for an answer to an 8-ball rule question. Only looking for an answer per the BCA rules. Maybe some experts here who can help?

Horrible cluster left on the table in an 8-ball game. Guy playing eight ball takes a backscratch by picking up the cueball and handing it to me.

First: is it okay to ever backscratch by picking up the cue ball? Rule 3.29 of the general rules says:

SPECIAL INTENTIONAL FOUL PENALTY
The cue ball in play shall not be intentionally struck with anything other than a cues attached tip (such as the ferrule, shaft, etc.). While such contact is automatically a foul under the provisions of Rule 3.19, if the referee deems the contact to be intentional, he shall warn the player once during a match that a second violation during that match will result in the loss of the match by forfeiture. If a second violation does occur, the match must be forfeited.

Does that apply, and if it does how do you use that when there's no referee (as in, in every game I play).

Second: Is it illegal to backscratch in 8-ball at all?

Thanks
<hr /></blockquote>

www.bca-pool.com (http://www.bca-pool.com)
www.playbca.com (http://www.playbca.com)

one of them may be able to help

jmo

Tom_In_Cincy
08-26-2006, 08:26 AM
First, Hello and Welcome to the Cue Chalk Board.

About the 'backscratch', I am assuming that you mean that your opponent (rather than shooting) just picked up the cue ball and handed it to you. If this is correct, in an un-reffed game, it has been permissable in the past. IN a REFFED game, the REF must give the offender a warning, like the rule stated.

If 'backscratch' means something else, please elaborate.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote threecushion123:</font><hr>
Horrible cluster left on the table in an 8-ball game. Guy playing eight ball takes a backscratch by picking up the cueball and handing it to me.

First: is it okay to ever backscratch by picking up the cue ball? Rule 3.29 of the general rules says:

Does that apply, and if it does how do you use that when there's no referee (as in, in every game I play).

Second: Is it illegal to backscratch in 8-ball at all?

Thanks
<hr /></blockquote>

threecushion123
08-26-2006, 09:10 AM
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. He committed a foul on purpose by picking up the cue ball (as opposed to how I would normally take a back scratch by nudging the cue ball with my tip so no rail contact).

SPetty
08-27-2006, 05:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote threecushion123:</font><hr> Yes, that's exactly what I meant. He committed a foul on purpose by picking up the cue ball (as opposed to how I would normally take a back scratch by nudging the cue ball with my tip so no rail contact). <hr /></blockquote>So is it fair to say that "backscratch" means "foul"? I've never heard the term "backscratch" before... Is there a "forescratch"?

As you're alluding to, it's a sportsmanship issue, and once I learned that, I will never just pick up the ball to hand it to my opponent, but will intentionally foul via some mechanism of making the cue tip contact the cue ball. It is not illegal or out of line or wrong to intentionally foul in (BCA rules) 8-ball.

During league play - different from gambling play - depending on my opponent - if they pick up the cue ball, I will sometimes attempt to teach them that lesson as well. And also my teammates. I point out what Tom_in_Cincy wrote above - that if the game was being refereed, that it would be a sportsmanship issue.

Fran Crimi
08-27-2006, 07:13 PM
I think the term 'backscratch' has been expanded to refer to an intentional foul.

It used to be referred to in 14.1 as taking an intentional foul by freezing the cue ball against the back of the rack of balls, still in tact. If you freeze the cue ball just right between two balls, the incoming player is looking at a scratch in either corner pocket off the rack. Then it forces them to either take an intentional foul, (which could be a problem if they're already on two) or to disturb the rack. It's a pretty standard 14.1 strategic move.

Fran

wolfdancer
08-27-2006, 10:45 PM
You just pick up the cueball, and hand it back to him ( you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours)