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Qtec
09-01-2006, 03:31 AM
Mayor Anderson's speech

[ QUOTE ]
Blind faith in bad leaders is not patriotism.

A patriot does not tell people who are intensely concerned about their country to just sit down and be quiet; to refrain from speaking out in the name of politeness or for the sake of being a good host; to show slavish, blind obedience and deference to a dishonest, war-mongering, human-rights-violating president.

That is not a patriot. Rather, that person is a sycophant. That person is a member of a frightening culture of obedience - a culture where falling in line with authority is more important than choosing what is right, even if it is not easy, safe, or popular. And, I suspect, that person is afraid - afraid we are right, afraid of the truth (even to the point of denying it), afraid he or she has put in with an oppressive, inhumane, regime that does not respect the laws and traditions of our country, and that history will rank as the worst presidency our nation has ever had to endure.

In response to those who believe we should blindly support this disastrous president, his administration, and the complacent, complicit Congress, listen to the words of Theodore Roosevelt, a great president and a Republican, who said: The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole.

Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile.

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.

Has Theodore Roosevelt's idea of patriotism now been redefined by this Admin to mean exactly the opposite?

Q

moblsv
09-01-2006, 05:36 AM
Thanks Q.

Imagine being this Mayor in Utah, the state that had the highest percentage of Bush votes and is one of maybe four states that still gives Bush positive approval ratings. This man is threated like Satan by the local Church (Mormons).

In case you missed it, I was there for his speech and there is audio of the last part of his speech in my earlier post about the rally in SLC.

Qtec
09-01-2006, 06:13 AM
Sorry for double posting.
I read the phonelines were jammed by irate GOP,ers calling City Hall to complain, presumably about a politician actually speaking from the heart for once!

A video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGgKyYsNDiE&mode=related&search=)

Full speech. web page (http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4263654)

Q

Fran Crimi
09-01-2006, 07:03 AM
Blind Faith. Sort of reminds me of being down in a big match and when the odds look bad, you overcome them by having so-called blind faith in yourself and in your abilitiy to pull through.

I think it was either Arthur Ashe or Billie Jean King who said that being a champion means sometimes having to overcome reality.

I think if Medal of Honor winners and other great heros had stopped to weigh the pros and cons of their actions before hand, they'd never put themselves in harm's way for their fellow men and women.

There are so many examples in life where belief in oneself beyond what a person can calculate is critical to our existence and success.


Fran

Qtec
09-01-2006, 08:16 AM
Good post Fran and I will try and answer it.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Blind Faith. Sort of reminds me of being down in a big match and when the odds look bad, you overcome them by having so-called blind faith in yourself and in your abilitiy to pull through. <font color="blue"> If you have faith in your ability then thats not 'blind'faith. </font color>

I think it was either Arthur Ashe or Billie Jean King who said that being a champion means sometimes having to overcome reality. <font color="blue"> One was black and the other was gay! They both believed in themselves. </font color>

I think if Medal of Honor winners and other great heros had stopped to weigh the pros and cons of their actions before hand, they'd never put themselves in harm's way for their fellow men and women. <font color="blue"> The act of bravery involes the hero knowing the risk and accepting the consequences. A GI who walks 100 yards into a field to give help to a wounded soldier is only doing his job. If he knows its a minefield and he still goes, then he is a hero. </font color>

There are so many examples in life where belief in oneself beyond what a person can calculate is critical to our existence and success.


Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I believe that I can run 100 balls in14/1 although Ivé never done so. Belief or blind faith?

Q

Qtec
09-01-2006, 08:16 AM
Good post Fran and I will try and answer it.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Blind Faith. Sort of reminds me of being down in a big match and when the odds look bad, you overcome them by having so-called blind faith in yourself and in your abilitiy to pull through. <font color="blue"> If you have faith in your ability then thats not 'blind'faith. </font color>

I think it was either Arthur Ashe or Billie Jean King who said that being a champion means sometimes having to overcome reality. <font color="blue"> One was black and the other was gay! They both believed in themselves. </font color>

I think if Medal of Honor winners and other great heros had stopped to weigh the pros and cons of their actions before hand, they'd never put themselves in harm's way for their fellow men and women. <font color="blue"> The act of bravery involes the hero knowing the risk and accepting the consequences. A GI who walks 100 yards into a field to give help to a wounded soldier is only doing his job. If he knows its a minefield and he still goes, then he is a hero. </font color>

There are so many examples in life where belief in oneself beyond what a person can calculate is critical to our existence and success.


Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I believe that I can run 100 balls in14/1 although Ivé never done so. Belief or blind faith? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

Fran Crimi
09-01-2006, 11:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Good post Fran and I will try and answer it.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Blind Faith. Sort of reminds me of being down in a big match and when the odds look bad, you overcome them by having so-called blind faith in yourself and in your abilitiy to pull through. <font color="blue"> If you have faith in your ability then thats not 'blind'faith. </font color> <font color="red"> Yes, it sure can be. </font color>

I think it was either Arthur Ashe or Billie Jean King who said that being a champion means sometimes having to overcome reality. <font color="blue"> One was black and the other was gay! They both believed in themselves. </font color> <font color="red">I have no idea what you mean by this. </font color>

I think if Medal of Honor winners and other great heros had stopped to weigh the pros and cons of their actions before hand, they'd never put themselves in harm's way for their fellow men and women. <font color="blue"> The act of bravery involes the hero knowing the risk and accepting the consequences. A GI who walks 100 yards into a field to give help to a wounded soldier is only doing his job. If he knows its a minefield and he still goes, then he is a hero. </font color> <font color="red"> I don't understand this comment either. Are you saying that bravery can never involove blind faith? </font color>

There are so many examples in life where belief in oneself beyond what a person can calculate is critical to our existence and success. <font color="red"> I agree! Oh, that was my comment, No wonder why. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>


Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I believe that I can run 100 balls in14/1 although Ivé never done so. Belief or blind faith? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="red"> Perhaps it is belief if you don't make the attempt...Blind faith if you do. </font color>

Q <hr /></blockquote>

Qtec
09-04-2006, 03:55 AM
Fran, I never said Blind Faith didn't exist or was not useful or neccessary is certain situations. Coming back from 8-1 down could be blind faith or confidence. There are many definitions deoending on context.

The BL I quoted was in context, ie
Blind faith in bad leaders is not patriotism.

Blind Faith involes ignoring reality. I don't think we should apply this to politicians.
The Reps are trying to say that any criticism of the Pres hurts the country and is un-patriotic. I think thats BS.

Q

DickLeonard
09-05-2006, 05:38 AM
Qtec that BS is taken from Herman Goering's testimony at the Nuremberg War Trails. I repeat " the people don't want to go to War it is the leaders who want to go to war. Just tell the people we are going to be attacked and they will come along and the people who speak out against it call them Unpatriotic. That usually silences them.

I find it odd that this regime mentions the appeasement of the Nazi's. When George Bush's great grandfather was Hitler's Banker and Karl Rove[rmeier's] grandfather built the ovens.####

Qtec
09-05-2006, 06:36 AM
The Nazi's didnt have TV Dick. If you can control the media, you can do what you want. Look at the run-up to the Iraq invasion!
They [ the media] now all admit that they didn't do their job but the real question is WHY. Why didn't they do their job.
They are still owned by the same people as when they failed to ask the right questions of the Govt before the Iraq invasion.
The truth is that immediately after 9/11, on the same day, Rumsfeld mentioned Iraq.
The 19 highjackers had Saudi passports?
Lets attack Iraq.

Qtec...if the highjackers had Iraqi passports that would be proof of Saddam's involvement, would it not?

Voodoo Daddy
09-05-2006, 07:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Mayor Anderson's speech

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Blind faith in bad leaders is not patriotism.

A patriot does not tell people who are intensely concerned about their country to just sit down and be quiet; to refrain from speaking out in the name of politeness or for the sake of being a good host; to show slavish, blind obedience and deference to a dishonest, war-mongering, human-rights-violating president.

That is not a patriot. Rather, that person is a sycophant. That person is a member of a frightening culture of obedience - a culture where falling in line with authority is more important than choosing what is right, even if it is not easy, safe, or popular. And, I suspect, that person is afraid - afraid we are right, afraid of the truth (even to the point of denying it), afraid he or she has put in with an oppressive, inhumane, regime that does not respect the laws and traditions of our country, and that history will rank as the worst presidency our nation has ever had to endure.

In response to those who believe we should blindly support this disastrous president, his administration, and the complacent, complicit Congress, listen to the words of Theodore Roosevelt, a great president and a Republican, who said: The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole.

Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile.

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.

Has Theodore Roosevelt's idea of patriotism now been redefined by this Admin to mean exactly the opposite?

Q <hr /></blockquote>

What a great band Blind Faith was... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif