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Qtec
09-05-2006, 07:38 AM
............going to let people who never post here stop us from discussing the issues of the day?
Q

Deeman3
09-05-2006, 08:13 AM
Probably....

DeeMan

Fran Crimi
09-05-2006, 04:29 PM
By all means, post something current!

Hey here's an idea from left field...How about posting something nice about the U.S...Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that be a first from you?

Wow, even if I'm wrong about that, the fact that I can't remember your ever saying anything at all nice about the U.S. after all your posts is really mind boggling. Wow indeed.

And I bet the reason for your post is to give yourself the opening to start the U.S. bashing all over again, right?

Oops, of course you don't hate our country. You just hate Bush, right? So, is that what you miss so much, the Bush bashing?

Well, now you know how I feel about your post. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I never thought I'd say this to you, Q, but I wish you would go find somewhere else to post your hate mail. I for one am sick of it.

Fran

hondo
09-06-2006, 06:02 AM
What about me? Loving your country & loving GW are
NOT synonymous. I dislike Bush intensely BECAUSE
I love my country. You know there were a lot of
folks before the Revolutionary War who thought it
was a sin to speak out against King George.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> By all means, post something current!

Hey here's an idea from left field...How about posting something nice about the U.S...Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that be a first from you?

Wow, even if I'm wrong about that, the fact that I can't remember your ever saying anything at all nice about the U.S. after all your posts is really mind boggling. Wow indeed.

And I bet the reason for your post is to give yourself the opening to start the U.S. bashing all over again, right?

Oops, of course you don't hate our country. You just hate Bush, right? So, is that what you miss so much, the Bush bashing?

Well, now you know how I feel about your post. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I never thought I'd say this to you, Q, but I wish you would go find somewhere else to post your hate mail. I for one am sick of it.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Rich R.
09-06-2006, 06:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr>You know there were a lot of
folks before the Revolutionary War who thought it
was a sin to speak out against King George.
<hr /></blockquote>Just the same as today. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
History repeats itself.

Fran Crimi
09-06-2006, 06:26 AM
By all means, speak out! But day after day, year in and year out, obsessively, and so often without logic or cause, citing written propaganda over and over again as proof...unreal.

That's abuse of the freedom we all so treasure. If you want to be so abusive, go ahead, but I personally would like to see it taken somewhere else.

JMO

Fran

Deeman3
09-06-2006, 06:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> What about me? Loving your country &amp; loving GW are
NOT synonymous. I dislike Bush intensely BECAUSE
I love my country. You know there were a lot of
folks before the Revolutionary War who thought it
was a sin to speak out against King George.

<font color="blue">It is not required that you love Bush to be a good American, no one is saying that. It is the Ad Nausum hatred of all things Bush does that grates on some of us. Many of us didn't like some of the things Clinton did, for instance. However, we did own up to some of the good things he accomplished and did not simple fill pages upon pages of hate about everything he ever did. The new political strategy seems to be to paste so much hate about him, anyone who is in his cabinet or related to him that everything Bush is demonized. That gets very old, very fast. None of us has said, "Don't talk about his policy or what you consider failed policy." That, of course, is a right of freedom to desent. But the pages upon pages of hate, name calling and the additional buttress of vilifying people of faith by comparing people who murder and cut off opponent's heads with the peaceful faith of many who believe in somethng you don't just makes this discussion forum a place where both sides want to yell louder instead of informed and reasoned debate.

Some of us just get tired of yelling back and having three pages of some liberal blog pasted as an answer. </font color>


DeeMan

Fran Crimi
09-06-2006, 06:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr>
<font color="blue">It is not required that you love Bush to be a good American, no one is saying that. It is the Ad Nausum hatred of all things Bush does that grates on some of us. Many of us didn't like some of the things Clinton did, for instance. However, we did own up to some of the good things he accomplished and did not simple fill pages upon pages of hate about everything he ever did. The new political strategy seems to be to paste so much hate about him, anyone who is in his cabinet or related to him that everything Bush is demonized. That gets very old, very fast. None of us has said, "Don't talk about his policy or what you consider failed policy." That, of course, is a right of freedom to desent. But the pages upon pages of hate, name calling and the additional buttress of vilifying people of faith by comparing people who murder and cut off opponent's heads with the peaceful faith of many who believe in somethng you don't just makes this discussion forum a place where both sides want to yell louder instead of informed and reasoned debate.

Some of us just get tired of yelling back and having three pages of some liberal blog pasted as an answer. </font color>


DeeMan
<hr /></blockquote>


BRAVO!!! Well said!!!

hondo
09-06-2006, 07:16 AM
Maybe we could set this forum up like Bush's press
conferences and just invite people that agree with
Bush. But then, you wouldn't have anything to rant about.
Sounds boring to me.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> By all means, speak out! But day after day, year in and year out, obsessively, and so often without logic or cause, citing written propaganda over and over again as proof...unreal.

That's abuse of the freedom we all so treasure. If you want to be so abusive, go ahead, but I personally would like to see it taken somewhere else.

JMO

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
09-06-2006, 07:19 AM
Some good points, Dee. As soon as I can think of
something good to say about him, I'll be sure and post it.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> What about me? Loving your country &amp; loving GW are
NOT synonymous. I dislike Bush intensely BECAUSE
I love my country. You know there were a lot of
folks before the Revolutionary War who thought it
was a sin to speak out against King George.

<font color="blue">It is not required that you love Bush to be a good American, no one is saying that. It is the Ad Nausum hatred of all things Bush does that grates on some of us. Many of us didn't like some of the things Clinton did, for instance. However, we did own up to some of the good things he accomplished and did not simple fill pages upon pages of hate about everything he ever did. The new political strategy seems to be to paste so much hate about him, anyone who is in his cabinet or related to him that everything Bush is demonized. That gets very old, very fast. None of us has said, "Don't talk about his policy or what you consider failed policy." That, of course, is a right of freedom to desent. But the pages upon pages of hate, name calling and the additional buttress of vilifying people of faith by comparing people who murder and cut off opponent's heads with the peaceful faith of many who believe in somethng you don't just makes this discussion forum a place where both sides want to yell louder instead of informed and reasoned debate.

Some of us just get tired of yelling back and having three pages of some liberal blog pasted as an answer. </font color>


DeeMan
<hr /></blockquote>

wolfdancer
09-06-2006, 08:34 AM
Just this one last post, before I accede to the censorship "demands" here.
What Deeman sees as hatred....I see as frustration.
Had I known all the articles that were posted here by the "left" were just propaganda, I would neither have read any, nor posted any.
I liken the "reasoning" here to this exchange between Mr. Snow and Dick Gregory (I'm pretty sure this is factual)
web page (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003087485)
I've carefully avoided any political comments here....and I'll really try to make this a final post.

hondo
09-06-2006, 09:23 AM
I'm done too, Wolfie. We'll let Fran, Eg, Dee &amp;
company sit around &amp; gloat about what a great job
the Republicans are doing. Ta Ta.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Just this one last post, before I accede to the censorship "demands" here.
What Deeman sees as hatred....I see as frustration.
Had I known all the articles that were posted here by the "left" were just propaganda, I would neither have read any, nor posted any.
I liken the "reasoning" here to this exchange between Mr. Snow and Dick Gregory (I'm pretty sure this is factual)
web page (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003087485)
I've carefully avoided any political comments here....and I'll really try to make this a final post. <hr /></blockquote>

Qtec
09-06-2006, 10:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> By all means, post something current!

Hey here's an idea from left field...How about posting something nice about the U.S...Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that be a first from you? <font color="blue">No! </font color>

Wow, even if I'm wrong about that, the fact that I can't remember your ever saying anything at all nice about the U.S. after all your posts is really mind boggling. Wow indeed. <font color="blue"> Why do you think criticism about GW's foreign policy is an attack on America? I am always very specific that I am against the actions of the present US Govt and not the general pop of the US- most of whom DIDNT vote for GW!
The polls show that most Americans agree with me! I guess they are ALL Bush haters. [ Nothing to do with the evidence that is now coming to light.] </font color>

And I bet the reason for your post is to give yourself the opening to start the U.S. bashing all over again, right? <font color="blue"> Fran, my previous post was about Patriotism and you made it a thread about Blind Faith. This thread is about discussion and what the tight-asses think is permissible- I never mentioned Bush at all. </font color>

Oops, of course you don't hate our country. You just hate Bush, right? So, is that what you miss so much, the Bush bashing? <font color="blue"> What reason would I have to hate America?
I loved Bill Clinton! The guy made sense. He improved the image of the US around the world- this is a fact.
Over here in Europe we couldn't understand why you guys would make such a fuss about a sexual indiscretion concerning the Pres! If you want an example of REAL hatred, look back to the persecution of BC by the so-called Patriotic Reps. They did everything they could to depose an elected POTUS!
How Patriotic is that?

If I had an innate hatred for Bush- how come I was totally WITH GW when he went into Afghanistan- just like the rest of the world. [ 40 countries were involved in the Afghan invasion.]</font color>

Well, now you know how I feel about your post. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I never thought I'd say this to you, Q, but I wish you would go find somewhere else to post your hate mail. I for one am sick of it.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

The whole problem is that people who bought GW's BS can't be adult enough to admit they were wrong.
Its easier to shout ' Bush hater' than to try back up ANY claim by the Admin in the run up to war and admit you swallowed the crap dished out by the media and the Govt.

I can understand the resentment.
In all the time I have been posting here I have been consistent. It turns out that when I said what the GOVT was saying about the Alu Tubes, the Yellowcake, the WMDs, the Yellowcake etc, etc , etc was a load of bull,,
I WAS RIGHT!
I can imagine this would piss some people off. I,m not boasting, its just a fact.

If I really thought that GW was the mastermind behind this ME escapade, I would hate him.
The fact is, he has difficulty stringing a coherent sentence together. Just ask him the definition of sovereignty! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif



Q

Deeman3
09-06-2006, 11:10 AM
Just this one last post, before I accede to the censorship "demands" here.
What Deeman sees as hatred....I see as frustration. <font color="blue"> None of us, at least I don't think, want to end debate. Is this hatred or just frustration? I really don't know. We certainly can't demand that you stop posting all the things you care about. I don't want that. If I make a point, I would like to have someone of another opinion, counter that point with reasoned opinion. their opinion, not just a blog from the left or a request that we read books to "educated ourselves to the truth". The truth is what we believe it is, in our own tiny little minds. I don't beleive I have backed down from reasoned debate, although you may disagree. However, I try to let my arguments stand on their own and not rip page upon page from the Blogisphere. </font color>
Had I known all the articles that were posted here by the "left" were just propaganda, I would neither have read any, nor posted any. <font color="blue"> Everything is propaganda, one side of the other. </font color>
I liken the "reasoning" here to this exchange between Mr. Snow and Dick Gregory (I'm pretty sure this is factual)
<font color="blue"> I am not near as interested in Mr. Gregory and Mr. Snow as I am the beliefs of people here. I am not going to answer your queries with a quote from Shawn Hannity or Tiny Tim. </font color>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> I'm done too, Wolfie. We'll let Fran, Eg, Dee &amp;
company sit around &amp; gloat about what a great job
the Republicans are doing. Ta Ta. <font color="blue"> I don't think the Republicans have done a great job. I know this is a complex world and a monumental task facing our leaders. Would I have done things differently? Yes! I still prefer GWB's overal vision of how to handle terror better than the alternative which I see and beleive is and was, "let's negoiate with people who's only goal is our destruction." I may be totally wrong but that is my belief, not some comic or a movies star's twist on it. I really don't care to much about what an ex-General with presidential aspirations has to say beyond listening and making my own judgement. </font color>



I've carefully avoided any political comments here....and I'll really try to make this a final post. <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

It is sad if a bright mind and nice guy like you doesn't post as he feels he has been chased off. You feel the vast right wing conspiracy to drive free speech from the site. I feel just tired of being blasted by tons of things pasted that always ring of hatred (frustration) towards GWB. I know it's a conscience political move and well thought out by the left but it restricts real debate in my opinion. I may be wrong. I have been before. While I remember a long list of presidents that did nothing at all for many years about the reams of terror attacks against the U.S. I also remember a great Democratic party who had ideas where they now only have insults.

So, I'll make this my last political post and hope we can at least part as friends albiet ones that disagree not only on politics but how they are discussed.

I have enjoyed my exchanges, overall, with all of you.

DeeMan </font color>

hondo
09-06-2006, 12:00 PM
Dee, speaking from my point of view, nothing personal.
Several posters on here, mainly Bushites but not all,
have gone on &amp; on about how tired they are of hearing
criticism of Bush. I don't post much on here anyway
so you're not losing much with me.
I came back because I got really tired of LWW &amp; Bamadog's
BS on AZ but it's the same here.
I don't feel occupying Iraq is winning the war on
terrorism. I don't agree with just about anything
Bush says or does. So what's the point of engaging
in these pizzing contests?
You've got people like Fran telling people who don't
agree with her to get off the forum. This forum's
about dead anyway.
On AZ the pool forum is active. The NPF has some fun
things on it but the political discussions just drone
on &amp; on. I usually just make smart-azz comments anymore.
Eveybody's mind is made up.
As I said, these aren't debates anymore; they're just
pizzing contests. Ho hum.

Deeman3
09-06-2006, 02:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Dee, speaking from my point of view, nothing personal.
Several posters on here, mainly Bushites but not all,
have gone on &amp; on about how tired they are of hearing
criticism of Bush. I don't post much on here anyway
so you're not losing much with me.
I came back because I got really tired of LWW &amp; Bamadog's
BS on AZ but it's the same here.
I don't feel occupying Iraq is winning the war on
terrorism. I don't agree with just about anything
Bush says or does. So what's the point of engaging
in these pizzing contests?
You've got people like Fran telling people who don't
agree with her to get off the forum. This forum's
about dead anyway.
On AZ the pool forum is active. The NPF has some fun
things on it but the political discussions just drone
on &amp; on. I usually just make smart-azz comments anymore.
Eveybody's mind is made up.
As I said, these aren't debates anymore; they're just
pizzing contests. Ho hum. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> I could not agree more. Like you, I am tired of pizzing contests that never get us anywhere, liberal or conservative. </font color>

DeeMan

pooltchr
09-06-2006, 05:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> the general pop of the US- most of whom DIDNT vote for GW!

Q <hr /></blockquote>

I believe GW won both the electoral college and the popular vote in the last election.
Steve

Qtec
09-06-2006, 07:29 PM
If the pop of the USA is 300 million and only 50 million voted for GW, that means that 250 million did NOT vote for GW and thats exactly what I said.
Q..................?

DebraLiStarr
09-06-2006, 10:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> If the pop of the USA is 300 million and only 50 million voted for GW, that means that 250 million did NOT vote for GW and thats exactly what I said.
Q..................? <hr /></blockquote>

Well... youre not an American, so who gives a stinky Grindinger what YOUR opinion is? I agree with Fran 100% (imagine that) - Q, you and your endless barrage of anti-Bush/anti - American posts is old and it has worn out its welcome. Talk about something refreshing, something positive or at least add some humor to it... and perhaps more people will particpate in these forum discussions like they did before.


http://web.fastermac.net/~justatestinhere/LoRezBushCoFlowChart.jpg

DickLeonard
09-07-2006, 05:58 AM
Pooltchr I believe that the earth is flat. So were even.####

DickLeonard
09-07-2006, 06:04 AM
DebraLiStarr. Nice to see your posting, you must be trying for four years in a row. Vegas book has you even money. One question how did you get all those *&amp;^&amp; by the filth filter.####

pooltchr
09-07-2006, 06:29 AM
Q,
OK...More people who voted, voted for GW than did for JK. Those who didn't bother to vote obviously don't care. Given that, I'm glad they didn't vote. They are either too ignorant to make an intelligent decision, or too lazy to research the positions of candidates and make a choice. Either way, for the purposes of political discussions, I don't even count non-voters.

Dick,
I believe that you believe the world is flat. You have shown many times that you are quite able to form opinions regardless of the facts involved. One more example doesn't surprise me at all.

Steve

DickLeonard
09-07-2006, 08:56 AM
Pooltchr no fair double posting. I got most of my facts from googling the Bush Crime Family which most Repubs dismiss as not important. Had Schrub been arrested for Insider Trading on Harkin Oil which he should have been we wouldn't be having any of these discussions.

Martha Steewart went to jail for lying about selling the stock on insider trading. Georgie Boy didn't even get asked any questions. He is a criminal serving as our President. I thought Clinton sullied the Office of the President but GWB brought it to a new low.####

pooltchr
09-07-2006, 09:40 AM
I didn't see the rule about double posting...sorry. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So which site did you google to come to the conclusion that the world is flat? Just wondering, because, is a sense, you are correct. I often tell my students that when they are down on a shot, that their world should consist of the 4.5 X 9 feet in front of them. So, I guess there are times when your world really is flat! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve

Rich R.
09-07-2006, 10:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> So which site did you google to come to the conclusion that the world is flat? <hr /></blockquote>
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Hope you don't mind me butting in. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DebraLiStarr
09-07-2006, 01:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> DebraLiStarr. Nice to see your posting,

<font color="blue">Mr. Leonard...have you missed me? Be honest.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

you must be trying for four years in a row.

<font color="blue"> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks for noticing! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font color>

Vegas book has you even money.

<font color="blue"> Stan James has me at 2:1 and with Timberly at 30-1 (my closestest competition) it should be a lock!!!</font color>

One question how did you get all those *&amp;^&amp; by the filth filter.####

<font color="blue"> I'm actually a double-secret agent and after countless hours of painstakingly desperate attempts, I was able to crack the code. </font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Qtec
09-07-2006, 06:46 PM
I'm guessing here but I think dick was referring to these words by DeeMan.
[ QUOTE ]
If I make a point, I would like to have someone of another opinion, counter that point with reasoned opinion. their opinion, not just a blog from the left or a request that we read books to "educated ourselves to the truth". The truth is what we believe it is, in our own tiny little minds. <hr /></blockquote>


Imagine the thread, /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

DM- I believe the world is flat. That's my opinion.

Q- Sorry DM but the world is round. I could show you photos, sworn testimonies from astronauts, physics and mathematical docs that prove that the world is round etc, etc , etc.

DM- don't give me any of that cut and paste crap. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm not interested in facts, I just want your opinion. You believe the world is round- I believe it is flat. Lets just agree to disagree. You are just a flat-earth hater. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[ in jumps Deb]
DebLi- HaHaHa. If the world was round we would all fall off. You Euros are so stupid! Giggle, giggle. Anyone know a good name for my pet tarantula /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r- when Clinton.................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DG- I'm sick and tired of this constant flat/round earth................ZZZZZZZZZZZ /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Fran- Q, you say round but don't you mean spherical? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wolf- According to the philosophies of Tai-Chi, yin and yang, the earth has to be round. otherwise it could not float in space! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Everything can be described as both yin and yang.

1. Yin and yang are opposites.

Everything has its opposite—although this is never absolute, only relative. No one thing is completely yin or completely yang. Each contains the seed of its opposite. For example, winter can turn into summer; "what goes up must come down".
2. Yin and yang are interdependent.

One cannot exist without the other. For example, day cannot exist without night. Light cannot exist without darkness. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif


Gayle- If the earth was round and now its flat, it happened on GE's watch! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr- you can't expect us to believe anything you post from roundworld.com! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

<font color="blue"> before all the hate mail starts pouring in, this is called[ I hope] humour. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>



Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Peace.

DickLeonard
09-08-2006, 04:41 AM
Qtec no fair humor.####

Dagwood
09-08-2006, 04:41 AM
Q...
I do believe that was the funniest post I've seen from you...ever.

BTW...the earth has no shape. it can neither be defined a flat or round because it lies on an existential plane of existance and is different to each person to percieve it. (which, if you think about it, it could be round, flat, cubic, or even TRAPEZOIDAL! As long as the percieving person believed it....) On second thought, I have to do more research...If a majority of people thought the world was conic, does that make it so? What about before the time people percieved the shape of the world? did a shape exist? Now I'm getting confused......and I just argued with myself...dammit.

I'm on vacation...thinking like this is going to get me killed faster than a vehicle-borne IED...

Dags

DickLeonard
09-08-2006, 04:50 AM
DebraLiStarr of course I had missed you, your name now has been removed from my most wanted poster list. I thought you were reading What is Wrong with Kansas. Without people of differing opinions they might just as well shut this board down.

Rearrange the archive and 99% of all the pool questions have already been answered. Load it up with advertisements and the board could be tremendously profitable.####

Fran Crimi
09-08-2006, 05:47 AM
Pu-leeze....You are so full of Crap it's unbelieveable. I think you're actually starting to believe your own BS. I'll tell you where you were right, Q. You were right where you posted that you know nothing about politics. But that's neither here nor there. You once told me that your main objective in posting the NPR political stuff on this website was just to antagonize the CCB posters. I watched you do it for three years or more. You went over the top so many times, and I know you could give a rat's ass about this, but I don't respect you any more because you don't know how to control yourself. You can't stop. Forget about stopping. You can't even tone it down just a little. It's like a sickness. A disease. Well, whatever...Go feed your addiction.

I'm not reading any more of your crap on the NPR side. Have a nice day.


Fran

Deeman3
09-08-2006, 05:51 AM
Q,

Now that's a masterpiece, despite the flatness of the world and screen I am watching it on. Keep your finger in that Dyke. (No sexual entendre intended)

DeeMan

DebraLiStarr
09-08-2006, 01:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> DebraLiStarr of course I had missed you, your name now has been removed from my most wanted poster list.

<font color="blue">How much wuz I wanted for? </font color>

I thought you were reading What is Wrong with Kansas.

<font color="blue"> Kansas? I haven't a clue what's wrong with it. Should I care? Please elaborate.</font color>

Without people of differing opinions they might just as well shut this board down.

<font color="blue">A little political conversation is ok... but jeeeeeeze... Its different when the differences in opinions start to shape and dictate the flow of the entire forum. </font color>

Rearrange the archive and 99% of all the pool questions have already been answered. Load it up with advertisements and the board could be tremendously profitable.####

<font color="blue"> Load it up with negative BS and you'll have what you have now.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
</font color>
<hr /></blockquote>