PDA

View Full Version : What Are The Best Drills For Working On Position?



TomBrooklyn
02-23-2002, 12:40 PM
What are the best or your favorite drills specifically for practicing getting shape? Not worrying too much about potting object balls for this excercise.

Do you have any special shots where you move whitey where whitey has never gone before, and amaze your friends and neighbors?

Do you prefer to get shape by using follow and draw alone rather than left/right English if possible, or are you a "spinner"?

You can use: http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html to illustrate if you like.

02-23-2002, 02:58 PM
I am a believer in Bert Kinister's "60 minute workout". It is one of the best instructional videos I have ever used (don't just watch it USE it).
This tape burns memory of feel in to your brain.

Patrick
02-23-2002, 03:46 PM
Drills are not good to practice, you only get better at those shots, in pool there are many different shots, so it would take a long time to practice all of them, this is why all the pros have practised so long to reach their level. But if there would come a new game, then they would need to learn new shots, and that would take a long time.
If you would know what happens on every shot, then you learn to calculate new shots that you haven't done before and make them!
I practice Rotation straight pool for a reason, because in that game you will get all kinds of shots.
In 9-ball you never need to make kick shots with perfect position, because you have only 9 balls on the table and there is a big margin of error.

Patrick

02-23-2002, 03:55 PM
Hey What I do is go to www.easypooltutor.com/drills/shtml (http://www.easypooltutor.com/drills/shtml) and look for some help there. Then practice over and over till you get sick of it.. Good luck

02-23-2002, 04:16 PM
Patrick, where do you live?
I will give you the 5 and the last two, not for money (well we can do that too) but for the priviledge to continue posting on this board. Race to 15, 10 ahead, I don't care, Oh wait, I think I remember you saying 9- ball is a game of luck (which you will definately need). OK fine we can play some One pocket and I'll spot you 10 to 6. No, too much thinking for you? OK Straight pool to 150 and I will spot you 50 points.
You never post anything of value and are just a nuisance to everyone here, and for some reason you enjoy it. That, I am sorry for you.
Drilling your a$$ on a pool table (made of wood, slate and felt, not that VP3 crap) I will have no feelings of ill remorse.

Drake
02-23-2002, 04:45 PM
Try this. Break a nine ball rack. Take ball in hand. Find a piece of typing paper and place it where you want shape for the next object ball(The 2 Ball). Hopefully you will make the object ball(The 1 Ball) and land on the sheet of paper. IF NOT, Shoot the shot over until you do. When you execute the shot and land on the paper...Pull the paper, leaving the cue ball approx. where it was on the paper, and perform the same thing for the next object ball. After many many hours of practice and your feeling pretty good....CUT THE PIECE OF PAPER IN HALF. Good Luck. May your breaks be solid with shape.....Drake

cheesemouse
02-23-2002, 05:06 PM
Tom,
Here is one for your 'wei' table program. Start with ball/in/hand. The object is to have the cue ball just go up and nudge whichever ball is in the center of the table. As that center ball gets moved around so the position shots of the rest of the drill change; not a boring drill. Let me know if this copying and pasting to the wei table works.

START(
%Af5E1%Bp1V4%C\5N5%D\6H1%Ef5Y0%Fv5V2%Gv3H8%Hp6H9%I \6V0%JR9E4
%KC2V3%LC2I1%MS2Y2%NI3V4%OI0I0%Pi8V5%eB9a4
)END

Patrick
02-23-2002, 06:35 PM
My posts are the most valuable here.
What is your iq?

Patrick

TomBrooklyn
02-23-2002, 08:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> My posts are the most valuable here.
What is your iq? Patrick <hr></blockquote>

I'm afraid I can't agree that your posts are always the most valuable, Pat....may I call you Pat..., or do you prefer Patrick? For instance, you've have not contributed any information specifically related to the subject of this post and at least four other posters have.

However, I personally find your posts amongst the most entertaining.

As far as my IQ, I'm afraid that's classified. I'm not at liberty to discuss it.

By the way, your looking good. Have you been working out?

Rod
02-23-2002, 08:52 PM
Tom, if I practice any drill my intent is always to pocket
the object ball and many times where it hits the pocket.
You know that old saying, man I had perfect position, but
the ball didn't go in. Needless to say whitey wouldn't
end up where it did either. Anyway I have a number of
drills or practice shots that I like to shoot.
When I play position I use the natural angle, and no
english if possible. Of course many times english is used
to keep whitey away from the rail, change the rebound angle etc. I think many of us have amazing shots, I have a few
my friends ask me to shoot, but never the neighbors.
A touch draw shot, put a ball on the head spot, set the c/b
6" away straight in, draw the c/b back between 4" to 6",
re-spot the o/b, leave the c/b where it stops, repeat 10
times. If you get out of line, start over. This drill really
lets you know the value of where you hit the pocket, and
the finess draw needed for a short distance.
For follow, set up the same and alternate between the
corner and the side pocket. You'll have to check the line there to see if it's straight. Here is 2 more, and I'll
use the Wei, still a finess draw. Then shoot the same shot
but use top right whitey will hit the rail past the side
for position.
START(
%A[4B5%BI1N4%C`0I8%DS6D6%Eq8I3%F]8J8%GD5P0%HC0B5%IV6Z4%PM0V1
%WC9D2%XO6[0%Yd2Q0%ZO9[2%eA8b4
)END
Then one last one, same angle but a different situation.
START(
%A[4B5%BI1N4%C`0I8%DS6D6%ED3I5%F]8J8%GV0Z1%HC0B5%IW4V9%PM0V1
%WC9D2%XO6[0%YY0G5%ZO9[2%eC3b3
)END
Thats low right, and example of 3 different ways to play
position on the same ball, from a straight in shot.
Depending on a persons level of play, they may not want to
shoot some of these, but they will come up during play.
Here is one some friends really like, these balls are
appx 1/8" apart, shoot in the 8 with low right, draw the
c/b around the table, its tricky.
START(
%A[4B5%BB5C0%C[5\8%D[3B3%EB8C2%F[2\5%GB5[9%HP0X4%Ir3P6%PN5X1
%Wm4[2%XH7W6%YF2C8%ZC0F8%[k8Y7%\G1C5%eC3b3%_C9G9%`L9Q4%aO0W7
)END
Really I do practice more normal shots and a few drills.

cheesemouse
02-23-2002, 10:16 PM
Rod,
I just down loaded the wei table this afternoon and your drills are the first examples I have copy/pasted. What a great tool. That last shot looks like you have to jack up pretty high to complete. I hope more posters start to leave these wei examples of what they wish to explain about shots.

02-23-2002, 10:22 PM
Another great marker are those little stickies used to fix notebook paper so it stays in a 3- ring binder. Those things are great! stick on the table to mark OB CB and position.

Rod
02-24-2002, 03:13 AM
It is a great tool. Some people don't care for it, but
it beats the hell out of trying to explain how shots
are made and set up. You know what they say, whoever "they"
are, a picture is worth a thousand words. You can move
balls as you choose to create situations, that I would
have a hard time explaining without making it lengthy, and
sometimes confusing to say the least.
BTW that last shot is with a level cue, or at least as
level as the rail allows, Mr cheese!! SNAP, /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/icons/laugh.gif

02-24-2002, 08:56 AM
Patrick,
Go back to masturbating to Playboy! Nobody's buying your crap. You are TOO funny(alien,super intelligence,yada,yada,yada...)!

Patrick
02-24-2002, 10:08 AM
I said that drills are not good to practice because you only learn to make the same shots, so you need to practice by throwing all balls on the table to get variation in the shots.
I don't want to give away the secrets for free.
I train my muscles for pool.

Patrick

Tom_In_Cincy
02-24-2002, 10:21 AM
Rod,
I think you have the left and right draw backwards on both shots. Common mistake..
To get the cue ball to come off the rail long.. (1st shot) you need bottom right
To get the cue ball to come off the rail short (2nd shot) you need inside or bottom left.

cheesemouse
02-24-2002, 10:30 AM
Patrick'
"Your head is but a zit"
-C. Mouse
Remember, a monkey learns to peel a banana by watching it's parents.

Q-guy
02-24-2002, 12:06 PM
My number one favorite exercise for position play is to run balls into one pocket. I throw out the fifteen balls and start running them into one pocket. I run as many as I can, when I am out of shots I go to another pocket. This includes the side pocket. It is actually fun and doesn't even seem like an exercise or drill. I learned it from Jersey Red. I thought he was practicing one pocket, but he told me this will improve your position play and close up game better then anything. I works, I guarantee it. It is a must for 8 ball players. And like I said, it is fun.

02-24-2002, 12:40 PM
I am still young in this game but I've found that practicing and doing drills helps me immensely. I don't know why patrick is talking about but I've found practicing the same type of shots with slight variations help you learn a feel for how they act and roll. Once you learn this its easier to predict future shots that you have less practice in.

Rod
02-24-2002, 01:11 PM
Tom, I've been taking some flu medication so anything
is posible. I've never had a problem with thinking
backwards, It comes natural to me, well anyway seeing the
english comming at you. I looked at both shots again
and they look good to me. Have another look, and please
tell me if its the drugs. I'm in trouble if it is, caus
I ain't taking any.

cheesemouse
02-24-2002, 01:58 PM
Rod,
I'll work on that last shot but not today. Still hung over http://home.c2i.net/jmoelnaa/smile/bandit.gif

Rod
02-24-2002, 02:59 PM
Nothing to work on really, I just put that in there as
a shot that some people like to see. It's not like
I would make it any sort of drill. Interesting enough
though I have had that shot and variations during play, and I have to get a ref or someone knowledgeable, otherwise
some think it's a foul. It can be made and leave the
c/b in place, with a good miscue.
Sorry about the H/over, I guess Speedy is a little slow
today? I've been there before, and remember going out to play golf in 100+ temp, thats a bad way to die.

Rod
02-24-2002, 03:19 PM
Patty, no one's posts are more important or valuable?
What are you doing there, are you looking up for guidance or help? Or are you just getting a tan on your neck, indoors? with a neon light? IQ doesn't mean diddley
in this game.

cheesemouse
02-24-2002, 03:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Sorry about the H/over, I guess Speedy is a little slow
today? I've been there before, and remember going out to play golf in 100+ temp, thats a bad way to die.<hr></blockquote>
Rod,
This off the subject of pool but...As I look out my window it is snowing and that 100degree round of golf actually sounds pretty good. I think I will live. This is kind of beside the point but you know how when you do something wrong(like get tipped over drunk) and know you will pay later. I paid two hours ago. The toilet wouldn't quit running so I pulled the top off and started fiddling with the gizzmo(for me like looking under the hood of a car and wonder what the hell this thing does) well, it just kind of came apart and water started spraying everywhere...I had to run to the basement and turn the water off for the whole house. I decided to sit in a chair and ride out the rest of the day. I almost didn't reply for fear of p/c meltdown /ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif

Patrick
02-25-2002, 11:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> IQ doesn't mean diddley
in this game. <hr></blockquote>

IQ means everything if you want to reach a level beyond the current pool players.

Patrick

02-25-2002, 06:28 PM
I don't think many of us pay much attention to anyone who would rather play VP3 than the real thing. You don't even give lip service to a challenge on a real table. Until I hear you smoked one of us on a real table, I'll go back to laughing at you (and your "intertaining" posts) and not with you.

Name one Pro who makes a big deal about IQ? Pool IQ, sure, but general IQ, my vote is with Rod on this one.

02-26-2002, 07:22 AM
Tom, This shot is not so much a practicle practice drill shot, but more just a bit difficult shot until you get the feel for it. Several Pro and A level players had difficulty with it.
START(
%AB1A9%BB3\8%CB3B0%DB1A6%EA9A7%FA9A5%GB1B0%HV3[9%Iu9N8%JB1A7
%KB1\9%LA9A7%MB2]0%NB3\8%OB3A9%Pi8V5%eC9a1
)END

You can also shoot it with running english, but you have to smack it fairly hard. I like the 2 tips of side because because yoy can shoot it much softer, it looks like the cue ball will never get position until it picks up speed from the 3rd rail going to position on the nine. This is the first time I have attempted to use WEI, so let me know if it worked.

02-26-2002, 10:26 AM
The IQ test is a crude way to measure intelligence and doesn't necessarily mean you are smart, ecspecially at pool. I've found in this game, experience is the major part.

02-26-2002, 01:53 PM
Tom, Using the same diagram I posted to you earlier, here is another method (more fun) of getting position on the 7 ball. &lt;&gt;Shoot the Six ball down the rail as before. &lt;&gt; With slight botton and a lot of right side, Whitey will go to position 'A' on the side rail and then on to 'B' for position on the Seven.
START(
%AB3]1%BB6]2%CB3A9%DB2A6%EB2]2%FV3[9%Gv1P7%HY9W5%I\9W1%JB8B3
%KB0]5%LB6A9%MB2\8%NB1]0%OB1\9%Pi8S1%QY4@5%Rs0V4%Ur9V1%VZ6C1
%WX3[8%Xi6S1%YZ4C9%ZW6[9%eB9a4
)END

02-26-2002, 06:15 PM
Nice little drill, if you can call it that, Bob. BTW the WEI worked great and is a fantastic tool, easy a pie to use.
I've run into similar situations as you describe in this setup, now that you point it out, I'll work on it. Thanks.

Tim

Doctor_D
02-26-2002, 06:23 PM
Check Out "Target Pool"

Great lesson book on positioning and cue ball control.

Dr. D.

Rod
02-26-2002, 08:44 PM
Bob I like both of your shots. I do shoot variations
of both at some time during practice.
You mentioned you can shoot it with running english.
The shot diagramed here is running or inside english.
May I mention that you might want to put the balls on
the table, instead of the cushion.

Rod
02-26-2002, 08:59 PM
Doc, I think that is an excellent game for any skill level.
People learn how and why in most cases, the importance
of speed, english, stroke, o/b hit and c/b hit to arrive
at a specific target. Instead of just area position.
Oops sorry for the doc, DR D.

02-27-2002, 08:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr> Bob I like both of your shots. I do shoot variations
of both at some time during practice.
You mentioned you can shoot it with running english.
The shot diagramed here is running or inside english.[quote/]

Rod,you are right, It is both: One with english at 1:30 O'clock and one with 3:00 O'clock.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Rod:</font><hr>May I mention that you might want to put the balls on the table, instead of the cushion. <hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the suggestion, it does make the shot easier.

CarolNYC
02-27-2002, 08:47 AM
Roll all 15 balls on table randomly, take cueball in hand, and POCKET the balls without cueball htting a rail!
Carol

cheesemouse
02-27-2002, 11:24 AM
Tom,
After all the drills are tried and you select the keepers don't forget the 'teacher'; good old 14.1

02-27-2002, 11:43 AM
Man Patrick, when I first saw people attacking you on playpool.com I thought they were unfair. Now I know they were fair, and you're crazier than a bedbug!
You may have a sky high IQ, but your more useless than teats on a bull.

phil in sofla
02-28-2002, 11:45 PM
Probably the clock idea, Buddy Hall did one on it, and Bert K. has one.

Both of them give you drills that will finely calibrated your touch to get the exact amount of English and stroke speed to go to exact locations. They're not only drills, they're systems. I'll second Bert's 60 minute workout as well.

03-01-2002, 05:06 AM
Here is a position shot that is either deceptively easy or hard depending on your touch. Sometimes I can get position on the first or second try and sometimes it takes five or six tries. It came up only come up once for me in the last three years. It requires a harder hit than it would appear to need, accurate tip placement, and good follow through.

03-01-2002, 05:51 AM
Sorry for the error-inadvertantly punched wrong button. Here is the WEI diagram:
START(
%D\6O2%EV2[5%Fh3[2%GZ5S1%HC6V4%IY0O7%JB4]1%KB3]2%LB3]1%MB3]2
%NB4]1%OB1]2%P_9V5%Q@9X6%R`3X1%WC9X8%X\7P3%Y_5Y2%ZC2X8%[]2Q2
%\_2U4%eC2b0
)END
From the locations indicated, with some amount of bottom right english, shoot the 4 ball into the opposite side pocket and get position on the 5 ball for the run out. The 7,8, &amp; 9 ball locations are intended to block all cue ball paths except to 'A' on the foot rail. Enjoy.

Q-guy
03-01-2002, 10:52 AM
I have read a lot of the post on this thread over the last few days. Although many have some good practice exercises. If one wants to see their game improve in the shortest time frame, it is important to work on and practice things that come up in every game. I often see players in the poolroom setting up some long shot or something and shooting it over and over with the idea they are practicing. Playing good pool consists of doing simple things consistently. It may be something that you think doesn't even need practicing. Short draw shots, cutting a ball in the side and coming back to the middle of the table, dealing with a ball in the jaws of the pocket. Something as simple as making a ball near the pocket and going one rail to the other end of the table. This stuff comes up in every rack and are how you win games. I have often seen posts on here with titles like, "How do I stop dogging the nine ball." The answer is simple. Get position on it, it takes the pressure off. No player can deal with constant problems, moving from crises to crises as they run the balls. You are not playing on the deck of a moving ship, you move the balls. They don't move by themselves. Many of the problems that stop you from running out, you do to yourself. Good players make the game look easy. This is primarily because they have raised the simple side of the game to a level of perfection. Even if you never become a great shot maker or great position player, at least be able to do what is within your limits at the highest level posable. I will tell you something interesting. When you play a powerful simple game, all the hard stuff seems to come with it. When you are used to hitting the easy shots accurately, (and accurate hits are also how you play good position ), you will make the hard ones too. Don't waste your practice time and try to keep it fun. Hope this makes some sense.

heater451
03-01-2002, 11:52 AM
Your post talks mostly about getting good position, and I agree. But, in regard to:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I often see players in the poolroom setting up some long shot or something and shooting it over and over with the idea they are practicing.<hr></blockquote>
I would still consider practicing a long-table cut shot as beneficial. I have found that, after learning to play position in 8-ball, where I have a choice of shots, I find my confidence and ability slip on long-table cut shots. This usually happens on 9-foot tables in 9-ball, where I'm forced to take the long shot at the beginning of my turn (And, I'm talking about an otherwise good percentage shot, not where I'd be better off playing safe.)

~~Then again, I do need an eye exam. . . . /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Q-guy
03-01-2002, 04:06 PM
There is nothing wrong with practicing any shot you like. But practicing a shot that may not come up that often, over things that come up in every game is not the best use of your practice time. If you never made any of those low percentage shots, it would not matter as long as you never missed the easy ones. That was really my point. Master the easy game and you will see improvements over night. And as I said the hard will follow. If you try to hit all shots accurety, even if the shot does not demand such an accurate hit. The harder shot don't seem so hard anymore. Just because the ball went in does not mean you hit it good. Like I said, I hope this makes sense.

03-01-2002, 04:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> What are the best or your favorite drills specifically for practicing getting shape? Not worrying too much about potting object balls for this excercise.

Do you have any special shots where you move whitey where whitey has never gone before, and amaze your friends and neighbors?

Do you prefer to get shape by using follow and draw alone rather than left/right English if possible, or are you a "spinner"?

You can use: <a target="_blank" href=http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html>http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html</a> to illustrate if you like.
<hr></blockquote>

03-01-2002, 06:39 PM
Q-guy wrote some great advice here.

03-02-2002, 12:28 AM
My experience is that diversity and adaptabiltiy to ever-changing conditions is the key to solid position play. A player should know at least three different ways to get the cue ball from one place to another. Throw two balls and the cue ball on to the table. Mark them, pocket a ball and practice at least three ways to get position on the second ball. When you're competing, situations change due to weather, different tables, layouts, etc. If you're only confident with one way, you're going to find yourself playing a lot of safeties, or even worse, missing the shot or hooking yourself.

Fran

03-02-2002, 04:07 AM
Good advise Q-Guy. I like your comments Fran-hadn't thought of it that way. You will win far more games if you rarely miss easy shots, than if you rarely miss hard shots. After routine practice doing popular drills, it does my pool soul good to do these unusual or difficult shots.

heater451
03-04-2002, 12:18 AM
Q-guy, you're making perfect sense.

I was just saying that a (somewhat) low-percentage, long table cut shot is necessary to practice for 9-ball, because it comes up very often on the first shot, when there's no choice for an easier shot. Otherwise, everything you said is perfect.

I only bring it up, because once I learned positioning skills, I found that my overall accuracy fell off. This is not a problem, when I have an easy shot to start a run with (or many choices, such as in 8-ball), but if I step to the table and have to be accurate, that's when it's an issue.

Rod
03-04-2002, 02:55 AM
Q-Guy it makes sense to me. Most of the mistakes I see and do sometimes are really routine shots. I've always said the most under rated shot is a ball in the jaws. Many times people just stop the cue ball anywhere for this shot. For practice it should be shot at different distances and angles to play position on an o/b anywhere on the table. A hanging ball is certaintly a routine shot.