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marek
09-17-2006, 02:31 PM
Hi!
I would like to ask if anybody here has already tried the second generation of 314 shaft(or Z shaft for that matter)? Also I have one more question about the predator products: is predator shaft alone good enough to get all the lowest deflection posssible or is the whole predator cue a must? Why do I ask? Some players here in Czech Republic have bought a whole predator cue or a predator shaft in past few years. And I realized one thing: those who have bought the shaft alone (including me) are experiencing the same problem with it - it seems like the shaft loses its low deflection qualities through the time. On the other hand those who have bought the whole predator cue dont experience anything like that. First I though that its my fault, that I dont have the proper tip for the cue or that I shape it badly...but then I made a little poll and realized that I am not alone. Can it be due to another joint than original predator (5/16) - may it suffer through the time? Or may it be just inferior quality of those shafts, counterfeits maybe? I am all mixed up here....

wolfdancer
09-17-2006, 04:03 PM
Marek, if you have an original Predator shaft....it should play well on any mating butt...I ordered my OB1 cue to match my Predator and they are interchangable...a friend is using my second Predator shaft, with the OB1 butt, and playing good.
I found the best tips for the Predator are a Triangle, or an Everest...plays much better then the LePros that come with the cue. Everybody I know playing with Predators, uses one or the other of these....still, it's personal preference.
Why don't you try replacing the tip?...maybe it's your tip that has deteriorated????
The Z and the OB1 have small diameter tips...and takes some getting used to....I still haven't the courage to take my OB1 to a tournament.....

marek
09-18-2006, 02:45 AM
Hi wolfie!
I have changed the tip maybe dozen times to find the best tip, right now I have a triangle installed. But it really feels like the shaft doesnt have the same characteristics compared to the time when it was new. But I may have found another suspect: today I examined the straightness of the shaft and I found out that the shaft is not perfectly straight! I have put the shaft on the edge of the table and I have slowly rolled the shaft while watching the space between the shaft and the table (aproximatelly at the half of the lenght of the shaft). To my surprise I could see that the shaft was definitelly bent. The difference between the biggest and the smalles space between the table and the shaft while rolling the shaft was about half a milimeter. Is it much? May it be the reason for the shaft not playing perfectly? I am not sure about that. Anyone can tell me? Is there a way to make the shaft straight once again?
And I have another question: I am interested in the second generation of Z-shaft. Does Predator make them with different joints than uniloc? I have found that the old Z-shaft is sold with different joints but the info about the new one is not clear. I have found some shops selling Z2 with the option of different joints, others telling that predator wont produce Z2 with different joints this year. Can anyone make it clear for me?

ShaneT58
09-18-2006, 07:44 AM
Looks like www.seyberts.com (http://www.seyberts.com) has the second generation Z shafts with lots of different joint options.

marek
09-19-2006, 12:38 AM
THX a lot!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

marek
09-20-2006, 01:17 AM
BREAKING NEWS!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I have been able to find the reason why my 314 didnt play as low deflection shaft for quite a long time! I was the tip all the time, but not the brand of the tip but the shape of it! I will explain further..
Every tip shaper which can be bought here has a shape of a dime, but yesterday I found out that predator recommends nickel shape for the tips. So I looked up the diameter of the nickel on the web, found the relevant coin (which is 2cent Euro coin) and shaped the tip according to the coin. And miraculously my shaft was playing perfectly!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif My friend was shooting pool when I arrived to the pool hall and I asked if he wanted to play some. We agreed on a single set of 8ball race to 8 winners break. He won the lag but nothing fell on the break. I went to the table with tough possition. I missed but left him the cb on the rail. He tried to pocket a difficult ball in the middle but rattled it in the jaws so it was my turn. So I started to play. I have played for some time getting perfect position on every ball and enjoying myself when nothing fell in on the break. I looked at the score and it was 6:0...I asked my friend if that score is right or if it was a leftover of some other game because I couldnt believe it and he answered me with a question if I thought that 6:0 was not enough?!! Then he was able to win next two games and almost won the third one as I lost a concentration a bit but I was able to get to the hill at last and ran out for the win. We shook hands and he left for the work (he works at nights in the casino). After that I was doing some experiments with sidespin and draw/follow getting incredible results. I just made christmas for myself with that new tip shape! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SPetty
09-20-2006, 03:27 PM
Hi marek,

So just to understand, your shaft plays better for you with a flatter tip? Why do you suppose that is? Most folks say that you'll get more spin with a rounder tip...

marek
09-21-2006, 12:19 AM
Damn! I mixed that up again - DIME is the new shape! Or in other words I came down from 22mm diameter to 18mm diameter. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am so happy about the shaft that I dont know what I am saying... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif And US coins are not the common thing here as well! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chopstick
09-21-2006, 07:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote marek:</font><hr> Hi wolfie!
The difference between the biggest and the smalles space between the table and the shaft while rolling the shaft was about half a milimeter. Is it much? May it be the reason for the shaft not playing perfectly? I am not sure about that. Anyone can tell me? Is there a way to make the shaft straight once again?
<hr /></blockquote>

Hi Marek. Half a millimeter is not that much. Yes, you can straighten them. I have seen them doing it at the factory in Jacksonville, Fl. Put your shaft on the table and roll it until the high spot is up off the table. Put your finger on it and push it down to the table and hold it there. Reach over with your other hand and grip the tip and pull it up an inch or two for a couple seconds. Check it again. You will find that you can change the straightness.

The way they do it at the factory is they have a jig shaped like a big upright horse shoe. They place the shaft across the tips. There is a dial indicator in the middle. They roll the shaft until the high spot is up. They grab it in the middle and pull down then they roll it again to check it. when it rolls straight it is ready to ship. They chack all their shafts this way.

I used Moori tips on all my Predator shafts. Shaping it to a dime radius did make a big difference. The low deflection charastics of the shaft come from the weight distribution at the tip end of the shaft. This does not change over time. It is the changing shape of the tip that is causing the effect you observe.

The second generation Predator shafts have lower deflection because they are lighter at the tip. Hope this helps. Hit em good.

marek
09-21-2006, 11:55 AM
Thx for the info, I will try it.

wolfdancer
09-21-2006, 12:42 PM
That's interesting that the tip radious made such a dramatic difference
when you place a dime on top of a nickle...then notice the small curvature difference in a measurement equal to a tip diameter, and that this curved surface will be contacting another curved surface.....I'd think the difference would be imperceptible in the deflection??
I'm not questioning the beliefs....but is there any hard data to support this?
Maybe Dr. Dave or Bob Jewett have something on this?
I just shape my tips by hand...and have no idea what monetary unit they conform with.

Rod
09-21-2006, 06:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr>
Hi Marek. Half a millimeter is not that much. Yes, you can straighten them. I have seen them doing it at the factory in Jacksonville, Fl. Put your shaft on the table and roll it until the high spot is up off the table. Put your finger on it and push it down to the table and hold it there. Reach over with your other hand and grip the tip and pull it up an inch or two for a couple seconds. Check it again. You will find that you can change the straightness.

The way they do it at the factory is they have a jig shaped like a big upright horse shoe. They place the shaft across the tips. There is a dial indicator in the middle. They roll the shaft until the high spot is up. They grab it in the middle and pull down then they roll it again to check it. when it rolls straight it is ready to ship. They chack all their shafts this way.

I used Moori tips on all my Predator shafts. Shaping it to a dime radius did make a big difference. The low deflection charastics of the shaft come from the weight distribution at the tip end of the shaft. This does not change over time. It is the changing shape of the tip that is causing the effect you observe.

The second generation Predator shafts have lower deflection because they are lighter at the tip. Hope this helps. Hit em good.
<hr /></blockquote>

Chopstick,
I post very seldom but this one (really) caught my attention. What does predator use, some kind of magic wood? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif They straighten shafts and charge 200 bucks for one? I am absolutely amazed.

Yes they will appear to be straight for a while but in a day the warp will return. It could be less warp but it will come back. 1/2mm or appx .020 thousands has a pretty good wobble rolled on the table. I just had a very well known cue maker (bought a new cue) make me new one's just for that reason.

I use to bend house cues or regular shafts but the warp never goes away. I've heard heat will help but it's still no real cure. Maybe SPetty got one of those factory bent shafts? Could be they just send them thinking few will notice and their probably right if that is the case.

As far as tip radius and deflection. I'd like to see any significant numbers that proves this theory. I doubt it could even be measured. As a comparison, the equivalent in c/b direction might be equal to, or less than, raising the butt of a cue 1/4 of a degree struck with side english.

I think we're looking for that needle in the hay stack. We might find it only if everything else is done to perfection. LOL

Rod

marek
09-22-2006, 02:25 AM
Hi!
I dont care much about theory, I go for what works for me. And the fact is that the new dime radius works great for me! Damn if there was some voodoo magic to play better I would go for it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chopstick
09-22-2006, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>

Chopstick,
I post very seldom but this one (really) caught my attention. What does predator use, some kind of magic wood? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif They straighten shafts and charge 200 bucks for one? I am absolutely amazed.

Yes they will appear to be straight for a while but in a day the warp will return. It could be less warp but it will come back. 1/2mm or appx .020 thousands has a pretty good wobble rolled on the table. I just had a very well known cue maker (bought a new cue) make me new one's just for that reason.

I use to bend house cues or regular shafts but the warp never goes away. I've heard heat will help but it's still no real cure. Maybe SPetty got one of those factory bent shafts? Could be they just send them thinking few will notice and their probably right if that is the case.

As far as tip radius and deflection. I'd like to see any significant numbers that proves this theory. I doubt it could even be measured. As a comparison, the equivalent in c/b direction might be equal to, or less than, raising the butt of a cue 1/4 of a degree struck with side english.

I think we're looking for that needle in the hay stack. We might find it only if everything else is done to perfection. LOL

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

I believe the reason you can bend them is that they are sections of wood glued together. The glue is not the kind the hardens to a really hard finish. It stays a little bit gooey forever. I think this allows for some slippage between the sections. I don't know for sure, I could be totally wrong. Predator has the best customer support I have ever seen. If you are unhappy with a shaft for any reason just send it back. They will send you a new one. I did it once.

I used to have all kinds of trouble making balls until I changed the radius from a nickel to a dime. As soon as I changed it to a dime everything seemed to work a lot better. I realize that this a purely subjective observation. It may just be that smaller diameter shafts work better with smaller radius tips. The Predator was my first time playing with a tip smaller than 13mm.

I talked to SPetty about her shaft but she didn't want to send it back. I don't doubt that every now and then they will get one that will not bend straight or just won't hold a correction. They do try to though.