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nAz
09-27-2006, 12:53 PM
By Lou Dobbs
CNN

I really really have to start my own church!


Editor's note: Lou Dobbs' commentary appears every Wednesday on CNN.com

NEW YORK (CNN) -- We're about 40 days away from November's critically important midterm elections, and the campaign volume is rising.

The political strategists, campaign managers, and the partisan savants will be working overtime to excite their conservative, liberal, Republican and Democratic bases, trying to get at least 50 percent of us who've registered to vote to actually go to the polls.

As in election years past, they're going to have a lot of help, and not just from PACs, labor unions and 527 groups like MoveOn and Progress for America. Oh no, we're going to be treated to something akin to, and as close as we should expect to get to, divine intervention. Evangelical Christians, Jews, Catholics, Muslims and Mormons are already getting rowdy, not only on their respective pulpits, but in the mail, on the air and certainly on the campaign trails.

Now I know you're thinking that this is America, what is religion doing in politics and what is politics doing in religion. As it turns out, just about everything. And the politically correct orthodoxy would prefer you and I not take notice.

The First Amendment of our Constitution declares that, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." But the devil's in the details, if you will, and the often demonized Internal Revenue Service has taken up the issue where other federal agencies and branches of government have feared to tread: This summer the IRS sent out a letter warning letter to more than 15,000 churches and tax-exempt nonprofit organizations throughout the nation. The warning letter is meant to serve notice that any sort of politicking could endanger their tax-exempt status.

The IRS discovered a disturbing amount of intervention by religious groups in national politics in 2004. It determined nearly five dozen churches and charities violated laws against political activities, and there are now 40 active investigations into the politicking of various churches.

The mixture of religion and politics is on public display throughout the country. The Mormon Church rolled out the red carpet for Mexican President Vicente Fox, embraces illegal immigrants in the state of Utah and helped pro-amnesty incumbent Congressman Chris Cannon with a get out the vote campaign.

Apparently nobody in the federal government is too concerned that the Catholic Church has repeatedly lobbied on behalf of millions of illegal aliens and their supporters for wholesale amnesty and open borders. Until the Supreme Court ordered him to, the head of the Los Angeles Archdiocese, Cardinal Roger Mahoney, didn't think he should cooperate with the law when it came to divulging information on priests accused of pedophilia, and he believes it is entirely correct to encourage his parishioners to civil disobedience in the case of legislation that secures our borders and punishes those who cross them illegally. The Cardinal disavows the will of the people in opposition to current law. Ironically he's now spearheading a drive to register a million new voters by 2008. Where he'll find them, only heaven knows.

The role of religion in politics and the role of politics in religion in this country has never deserved more attention and merited more intense examination than now. Religion is dominant in the lives of most Americans: The latest Gallup Poll reveals that nearly two-thirds of us are members of a church or synagogue and about one-third of us attend church or synagogue at least once a week.

Surveys show as many as 250 million Americans are Christian and 70 million of us describe ourselves as evangelicals. Clearly, Christian Americans could dominate our political system, and many argue that the outcome of the 2004 presidential election was determined by Catholic voters who shunned Catholic candidate Sen. John Kerry and bolstered born-again President George W. Bush, by a margin of 52 to 47.

What is the Constitutional and appropriate role of religion in our political lives. Rev. Barry Lynn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State says there are definite limits. "What houses of worship cannot do, under federal law, is to endorse or oppose candidates for public office. They may not use their resources to intervene in a partisan race. Houses of worship cannot become cogs in anyone's political machine."

But isn't that exactly what is happening today? Some churches and nonprofits have become extensions of both Democratic and Republican political message machines at the local and national level. The intrusion of religion into our political lives, in my opinion, should be rejected in the same fashion that we constitutionally guarantee government will not interfere with religion.

This issue is far too important to be left to the sole judgment of the Internal Revenue Service. And it is time for all of us to examine closely, both in our communities and in our Congress, just what separation of church and state really means to us and to the nation.

Drop1
09-27-2006, 08:11 PM
Well as I recall,you were working on a "Religious Statement," to outline what we were going to accept as Faith. I have given a lot of thought to uniforms,and have decided hospital gowns would be nice. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pooltchr
09-28-2006, 04:43 AM
Interesting point of view. But it could backfire on some of it's backers. The examples sited are the Mormons and Catholics. IMHO, one of the worst offenders is the Rev. Jesse Jackson, who has openly used his status as the leader of his church to promote his political agenda.

If the IRS moves forward, it would have to be with the help of Congress. And that might result in a court challenge based on the part of the first amendment saying that Congress can't pass a law restricting the free exercise of religeon. And if the law is selectively enforced, that's a whole different can of worms.

They might be better off doing away with the tax exempt status of all churches. I have never understood the reasoning behind this law anyway.

I also found it interesting that 250 million Americans call themselves Christians. That could certainly explain why the majority of Americans don't support the liberal agenda of the Democratic party. If I were a politician and wanted to win an election, this would be the group I would want to have supporting me.

Steve

Fran Crimi
09-28-2006, 06:00 AM
What Dobbs should really be talking about is the subject of special interest groups and lobbying and politics. That's what it really comes down to. Whether it's a religious organization or a particular trade organization, it's the same thing.

Is it really okay for a particular union to spend a fortune lobbying for a bill that the country really doesn't need, just to keep it's workers highly paid? That's right, folks, we need to change the zoning laws to build skyscrapers in swamp areas so our steel workers can keep working.

Is that any better than a religious group lobbying? Frankly, I think it's more dangerous.

Eliminate lobbying and you eliminate a whole lot of waste.


Fran

hondo
09-28-2006, 06:53 AM
Is that any better than a religious group lobbying? Frankly, I think it's more dangerous.

Eliminate lobbying and you eliminate a whole lot of waste.


.................................................. ...
Tap! Tap! Tap! I'm with you on this one, Fran.

wolfdancer
09-28-2006, 06:56 AM
"I also found it interesting that 250 million Americans call themselves Christians. That could certainly explain why the majority of Americans don't support the liberal agenda of the Democratic party"
Seems to me they majority of Americans have supported an even more liberal Democratic Party in the past.
Perhaps you're comparing the moral standards of the two parties, and somehow believe the right's to be vastly superior, excusing the rampant corruption of course....as just doing business?
The party that once appealed to the free thinkers in academia, the idealistic youth of the peace corps, and the great numbers of blue collar workers, the same folks that were the first to enlist in the nations armed forces, when the cause was just...has been forever"stained" by the revelation.. "Revelations"??.. of sexual misconduct by the outgoing President....
Christian Americans now prefers a President who is so moral, he has acted as his own confessor, and forgiven himself all sins while in office..a Presidential Pardon.Sanctus!!!
Even JFK couldn't do that until he called Rome first.
But the question arises........
Is Bush really the Devil????
web page (http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/morford/)

wolfdancer
09-28-2006, 07:58 AM
While many here look to GWB as their spiritual leader, and Ann as the High Priestess....some like me consider it to be Devil worship.
(Repeated url) web page (http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/morford/)

pooltchr
09-28-2006, 08:18 AM
There was a time when both parties actually stood for something. Back in the 60's and 70's, I was more aligned with the Democrats. But the Dem's continued to move more to the left, and as I matured, I began to understand that allowing the government to manage all the social programs they created was inefficient, counterproductive, and beyond the scope of what government was meant to do. In the past few years, I have seen the Republican party move in the same direction. The more programs the government operates, the more tax money they control, and the more power they have. If ever there was a time in our country's history when we needed a viable 3rd party, it's now. Someone has to put on the brakes, because we are flying down a mountain road, out of control. If we don't slow it down, we are going to crash and burn.
Steve

wolfdancer
09-28-2006, 08:35 AM
Steve, I couldn't agree with you more there....I've seen the excesses of meaningful assistance programs gone bad, and a gov't bureaucracy that grows unchecked.
Hope you don't have Ross "Squeaky" Perot, or Jerry Falwell in mind, as your third party candidate....

Fran Crimi
09-28-2006, 09:08 AM
Glad to hear you agree. Here's my lobbying story: BTW, don't dare say it's a Republican thing. You know as well as I do, it happens on Both sides of the fence:

During the Republican Convention in NYC, I was called and asked by an entertainment group if I'd be willing to mann a pool table during a party at Rockefeller Center. I said sure. I figured, wow, this is going to be a big deal. Nobody gets to rent out the entire Rockefeller Center for a private party. I figured I might see some Senators, or Bloomberg, or Pataki or Giuliani.

Nope. Turns out it was a lobbying company saying "thanks" to it's clients. I can't even begin to imagine what they paid to rent out Rock. Ctr., not to mention the two adjoining restaurants. So I started subtly asking the people at the party....So what company are YOU with? They were all UNIONS!!! Yup. Steamfitters, pipe workers, steel workers, refuse....etc.

Of course, not one politician would dare show up at such a party. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I got a real education that day.

Fran

hondo
09-28-2006, 09:21 AM
Good lord! First I agree with Fran & now Steve!!!
What's happening to me? I think I'm possessed!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> There was a time when both parties actually stood for something. Back in the 60's and 70's, I was more aligned with the Democrats. But the Dem's continued to move more to the left, and as I matured, I began to understand that allowing the government to manage all the social programs they created was inefficient, counterproductive, and beyond the scope of what government was meant to do. In the past few years, I have seen the Republican party move in the same direction. The more programs the government operates, the more tax money they control, and the more power they have. If ever there was a time in our country's history when we needed a viable 3rd party, it's now. Someone has to put on the brakes, because we are flying down a mountain road, out of control. If we don't slow it down, we are going to crash and burn.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

wolfdancer
09-28-2006, 09:31 AM
Turn your radio on... WWVA....a couple of hours listening, and yer mind will be clear agin....if that don't work...you might need, what we call up here, an exorcism....make sure you got that word spelled kerreckly....or you might get a circumcision instead

hondo
09-28-2006, 10:01 AM
LOL! I tried to do what you said. 1st they played " Walkin
on the Fighten Side of Me"; then " Have You Forgotton
Ole BIN Lotten". Then there was a talk show complaining
about those pinko, Commie Dixie Chicks.
Must get liberal transfusion, must get liberal transfusion.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Turn your radio on... WWVA....a couple of hours listening, and yer mind will be clear agin....if that don't work...you might need, what we call up here, an exorcism....make sure you got that word spelled kerreckly....or you might get a circumcision instead <hr /></blockquote>

pooltchr
09-28-2006, 11:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Steve, I couldn't agree with you more there....I've seen the excesses of meaningful assistance programs gone bad, and a gov't bureaucracy that grows unchecked.
Hope you don't have Ross "Squeaky" Perot, or Jerry Falwell in mind, as your third party candidate.... <hr /></blockquote>

Both are a little to radical for my tastes. I wish someone could convince Neal Boortz to run, but he has said he has no interest whatsoever in moving into politics. Can't say as I blame him!
Steve

llotter
09-29-2006, 04:24 PM
quote: pooltcher
[ QUOTE ]
If ever there was a time in our country's history when we needed a viable 3rd party, it's now. <hr /></blockquote>

You might want to check out the Constitution Party as a way to vote for what you believe. They might not collect many votes and ultimately help the Democrats but at least you could send the Republicans home with a conservative message. Voting for Mr. Bad or Mr. Even Worse does nothing to slow the tide of government that's out of control.

Qtec
09-30-2006, 09:09 PM
Saw a docu on this place last night. web page (http://www.phc.edu/about/default.asp)

[ QUOTE ]
The Mission of Patrick Henry College is to prepare Christian men and women who will lead our nation and shape our culture with timeless biblical values and fidelity to the spirit of the American founding. Educating students according to a classical liberal arts curriculum, and training them with apprenticeship methodology, the College provides academically excellent baccalaureate level higher education with a biblical world view.


The Vision of Patrick Henry College is to aid in the transformation of American society by training Christian students to serve God and mankind with a passion for righteousness, justice and mercy, through careers of public service. [/b]
<hr /></blockquote>

Most/all of the students have never been to school, they were all taught at home. Now they are at a college where everyone thinks the same, believes the same and IMO its more like indoctrination than education.
The problem with fanatics is that they can justify anything if they believe they are doing God's work. The Islamic terrorists say they are doing Allah's will when they murder . I have no doubt that the Ev Christians would steal an election for God.

pooltchr
10-01-2006, 05:36 AM
Fanatics are fanatics. Everyone says most Muslims aren't fanatics. The same can be said for Christians. While some are at the extreme, most are not. As for your use of the word "indoctrination", that can apply to our public schools as well. The government controls what is taught in public schools. If the schools don't comply, they lose the funding necessary to operate. So they bend to government mandates. Believe it or not, there are schools in this country where it's ok to study the Koran (I guess so we can "understand" different cultures), but any reference to the Bible in schools is banned.
Steve

TomBrooklyn
10-01-2006, 11:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>I really really have to start my own church!<hr /></blockquote>
I started one a few years back. Last year, I was promoted to the position of Exhaulted High Priest. I could make Bishop soon if things go well.

cushioncrawler
10-02-2006, 12:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> ..... Last year, I was promoted to the position of Exhaulted High Priest.... <hr /></blockquote>
Hey Tom -- which one -- Exhaled High Priest -- or Exhausted High Priest -- or Exulted High Priest. Probably Exhausted i reckon (lol). madMac.

hondo
10-02-2006, 05:26 AM
Yeah, but if you become a bishop , you're going to
have to start wearing clothes again.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr>I really really have to start my own church!<hr /></blockquote>
I started one a few years back. Last year, I was promoted to the position of Exhaulted High Priest. I could make Bishop soon if things go well. <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
10-02-2006, 10:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Most/all of the students have never been to school, they were all taught at home. Now they are at a college where everyone thinks the same, believes the same and IMO its more like indoctrination than education.
<hr /></blockquote> So, instead of being indoctrinated at a public school their parents decided to take matters into their own hands and educate the children on their own. Good for them, I wish I was able to do the same.

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with fanatics <hr /></blockquote> Why are you calling these people fanatics? Have you opened your eyes lately, the education system in America sucks. These people took another route.

[ QUOTE ]
I have no doubt that the Ev Christians would steal an election for God.
<hr /></blockquote> Sure couldn't hurt anything.

eg8r

hondo
10-02-2006, 11:41 AM
Our education system sucks compared to what?
In America we don't weed out the bad students.
No child left behind, baby. The schools in my
area are excellent. I wish I could say the same
for the students. Only our best students seem to
have family support or families for that matter.
Other factors: drugs, booze, promiscuity, t.v.,
video games.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Most/all of the students have never been to school, they were all taught at home. Now they are at a college where everyone thinks the same, believes the same and IMO its more like indoctrination than education.
<hr /></blockquote> So, instead of being indoctrinated at a public school their parents decided to take matters into their own hands and educate the children on their own. Good for them, I wish I was able to do the same.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
The problem with fanatics <hr /></blockquote> Why are you calling these people fanatics? Have you opened your eyes lately, the education system in America sucks. These people took another route.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I have no doubt that the Ev Christians would steal an election for God.
<hr /></blockquote> Sure couldn't hurt anything.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

pooltchr
10-02-2006, 05:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Our education system sucks compared to what?
In America we don't weed out the bad students.
No child left behind, baby. The schools in my
area are excellent. I wish I could say the same
for the students. <hr /></blockquote>

A system that forces the good students to lower their standards so that the students who don't really give a rat's butt about school and pass the EOY tests, SUCKS!

A system that allows gang members to disrupt classes, intimidate teachers and students, and generally act like a bunch of thugs in school, SUCKS!

A system that fires teachers who can't bring up average grades, without first giving them the opportunity to have a class that WANTS to learn, SUCKS!

If students don't want to be in class, and have no interest in learning, even the best teachers (read best schools) can't help them. I can tell you everything I know about playing pool, but if you don't want to listen, or don't apply the information, you aren't going to improve. A teacher can only put knowledge and information out there...it's up to the student to accept it.

You can lead a horse to water...

Steve

wolfdancer
10-02-2006, 05:25 PM
Tom, how can you legitimize a church that you started your self? Have you had any books published like "Battlefield Earth"?
Here's a link to become a recognised man of the cloth:
web page (http://www.churchofnewlife.us/)
I, myself am a minister in the Universal Life Church

TomBrooklyn
10-03-2006, 01:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Tom, how can you legitimize a church that you started your self? <hr /></blockquote>
Hi wolf,

I have the inalienable right to legitimize a church, and my church is also legitimized by God, if not by some Government. Anyway, God doesn't care much about churches per se, especially since most of them are all mixed up and preach a bunch of whack-a-do stuff. Mainly, I just started one because everybody likes a title.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Here's a link to become a recognised man of the cloth:
web page (http://www.churchofnewlife.us/) I, myself am a minister in the Universal Life Church <hr /></blockquote>

That looks nice. I'll study that a little further. If you're ever in NYC, especially in the summer on a Sunday, maybe you can come to one of our outdoor services. We usually partake of a burnt sacrifice and drink Frozen Fresh Fruit Margaritas.

Cheers.

hondo
10-03-2006, 05:16 AM
Tap1 Tap! Tap! No disagreements here, Steve.
Unfortunately the thugs are usually labeled
BD( behavior development problems) and are
protected by the law. It definitely sucks.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Our education system sucks compared to what?
In America we don't weed out the bad students.
No child left behind, baby. The schools in my
area are excellent. I wish I could say the same
for the students. <hr /></blockquote>

A system that forces the good students to lower their standards so that the students who don't really give a rat's butt about school and pass the EOY tests, SUCKS!

A system that allows gang members to disrupt classes, intimidate teachers and students, and generally act like a bunch of thugs in school, SUCKS!

A system that fires teachers who can't bring up average grades, without first giving them the opportunity to have a class that WANTS to learn, SUCKS!

If students don't want to be in class, and have no interest in learning, even the best teachers (read best schools) can't help them. I can tell you everything I know about playing pool, but if you don't want to listen, or don't apply the information, you aren't going to improve. A teacher can only put knowledge and information out there...it's up to the student to accept it.

You can lead a horse to water...

Steve <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
10-03-2006, 05:20 AM
Sounds like us Baptists except for the margarita part.
We wait until we get home before having one of those.
Never partake in front of a fellow Baptist.



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Tom, how can you legitimize a church that you started your self? <hr /></blockquote>
Hi wolf,

I have the inalienable right to legitimize a church, and my church is also legitimized by God, if not by some Government. Anyway, God doesn't care much about churches per se, especially since most of them are all mixed up and preach a bunch of whack-a-do stuff. Mainly, I just started one because everybody likes a title.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Here's a link to become a recognised man of the cloth:
web page (http://www.churchofnewlife.us/) I, myself am a minister in the Universal Life Church <hr /></blockquote>

That looks nice. I'll study that a little further. If you're ever in NYC, especially in the summer on a Sunday, maybe you can come to one of our outdoor services. We usually partake of a burnt sacrifice and drink Frozen Fresh Fruit Margaritas.

Cheers. <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
10-03-2006, 06:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Our education system sucks compared to what?
<hr /></blockquote> Compared to the rest of the civilized world. What are we ranked now, something like 98th in the world. The left thinks throwing money at education will fix the problem. It won't. Want my proof? Take a look at the past 20 years. Downhill the whole way. Now, that is not the only problem with schools, I think our parents these days are also responsible. They feel the school system is a baby sitter and should raise their children. This is not so, but I once again also place part of this blame on the Government and the education system. Bring back corporal punishment. Listen, we did not have these problems when prayer and spanking were in the schools. I include the Government, parents, selfish kids, and educators when I mention "education system". All play a part, and for quite a few years (decades?) it has been going down hill.

[ QUOTE ]
The schools in my
area are excellent. <hr /></blockquote> You are very lucky. In my area they are not. There are some, but we will be paying a hefty tuition to make sure my children are being educated not pandered.

[ QUOTE ]
I wish I could say the same
for the students. Only our best students seem to
have family support or families for that matter.
Other factors: drugs, booze, promiscuity, t.v.,
video games.
<hr /></blockquote> No doubt a proactive family makes a difference. Just in noticing all the kids and families I am around on a regular basis, those who are proactive and take an interest in their childs education seem to be the most successful. My bro in law was a latch key kid whose parents did not seem to take much interest in his education. He was almost lost, but he is finally turning around and trying to right the ship. The key here is that just having a family around does not do anything, they must be proactive and take an interest in the educational development of the student.

I am pretty passionate for the kids (mostly those I am around the most, family and friends) and their education. I loved being in school and learning and I try to pass that on to those I am in contact with. I do point out their responsibility in the whole scheme of things, but I place higher responsibility on their Parents (or guardians), the teachers, administrators, and politicians. I have no shame in saying our educational system sucks. Yeah, the kids have a roof over their head, they are learning english and get a computer to fool around on (even if it is the calculator they are using in math class), but are they really learning anything.

eg8r

DickLeonard
10-03-2006, 07:15 AM
Eg8r my granddaughters are in honors programs so they are shielded from non=learners. One had an American History teacher who gave the GWB account of every thing. She thought he was misleading the class so I gave her AL Franken's Lies and the Liars that tell them and pointed her to LexusNexus and everyday she would research what he had said in class and bring in her rebuttal the next day. He then knew he better be right or the next day the truth would come out.

My daughter thought she wasn't learning anything in his class but I told her she learned the most valuable lesson, how to research. A much better tool than what date did the civil war begin.####

hondo
10-03-2006, 11:05 AM
Well, I agree with 90% of what you say. The only
problem is this prayer in school business. Jesus
said go to a private place &amp; pray.My students pray before
every pop quiz. do we try to stop them? Heck, I don't
even know about it.
Do we have group Christian prayer every morning
and make Buddhists, Muslims, &amp; Hindus pray along? Nope.
I'll tell you who wouldn't stand for it in my school:
Church of Christ, Jehova's Witnesses, &amp; Mormons.
Taken away prayer in school? Not the kind Jesus decreed.





<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Our education system sucks compared to what?
<hr /></blockquote> Compared to the rest of the civilized world. What are we ranked now, something like 98th in the world. The left thinks throwing money at education will fix the problem. It won't. Want my proof? Take a look at the past 20 years. Downhill the whole way. Now, that is not the only problem with schools, I think our parents these days are also responsible. They feel the school system is a baby sitter and should raise their children. This is not so, but I once again also place part of this blame on the Government and the education system. Bring back corporal punishment. Listen, we did not have these problems when prayer and spanking were in the schools. I include the Government, parents, selfish kids, and educators when I mention "education system". All play a part, and for quite a few years (decades?) it has been going down hill.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
The schools in my
area are excellent. <hr /></blockquote> You are very lucky. In my area they are not. There are some, but we will be paying a hefty tuition to make sure my children are being educated not pandered.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I wish I could say the same
for the students. Only our best students seem to
have family support or families for that matter.
Other factors: drugs, booze, promiscuity, t.v.,
video games.
<hr /></blockquote> No doubt a proactive family makes a difference. Just in noticing all the kids and families I am around on a regular basis, those who are proactive and take an interest in their childs education seem to be the most successful. My bro in law was a latch key kid whose parents did not seem to take much interest in his education. He was almost lost, but he is finally turning around and trying to right the ship. The key here is that just having a family around does not do anything, they must be proactive and take an interest in the educational development of the student.

I am pretty passionate for the kids (mostly those I am around the most, family and friends) and their education. I loved being in school and learning and I try to pass that on to those I am in contact with. I do point out their responsibility in the whole scheme of things, but I place higher responsibility on their Parents (or guardians), the teachers, administrators, and politicians. I have no shame in saying our educational system sucks. Yeah, the kids have a roof over their head, they are learning english and get a computer to fool around on (even if it is the calculator they are using in math class), but are they really learning anything.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
10-03-2006, 02:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well, I agree with 90% of what you say. The only
problem is this prayer in school business. Jesus
said go to a private place &amp; pray.My students pray before
every pop quiz. do we try to stop them? Heck, I don't
even know about it. <hr /></blockquote> You do know about it, you just told us they do it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif There are also plenty of places where "corporate" prayer is mentioned, so a group of kids praying together would not be against the teachings of the Bible. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

However, I am just pointing to one event in history. Things definitely started going downhill after prayer was removed. I have not stated the educational system went downhill because of the removal of prayer (even though it is something I believe), all I have stated is that the two events coincided. I will have to check around for a chart I had seen in the past that showed it.

eg8r

hondo
10-04-2006, 05:06 AM
I'm assuming they pray. It's their business.
I graduated in 1966. We had prayers before ball games
and before graduation. Still do. As far as other prayers
we never did that 40 years ago! The situation our
schools &amp; country is in has nothing to do with this so-
called taking prayer out of schools. That's religious
right bullshit. Like most of the rest of their crap.
And ,believe me, I believe in the life &amp; resurrection
of my Lord Jesus Christ.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Well, I agree with 90% of what you say. The only
problem is this prayer in school business. Jesus
said go to a private place &amp; pray.My students pray before
every pop quiz. do we try to stop them? Heck, I don't
even know about it. <hr /></blockquote> You do know about it, you just told us they do it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif There are also plenty of places where "corporate" prayer is mentioned, so a group of kids praying together would not be against the teachings of the Bible. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

However, I am just pointing to one event in history. Things definitely started going downhill after prayer was removed. I have not stated the educational system went downhill because of the removal of prayer (even though it is something I believe), all I have stated is that the two events coincided. I will have to check around for a chart I had seen in the past that showed it.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>