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nAz
10-11-2006, 08:10 AM
I was just reading this article and it reminded me of what most New yawkers already know 90% of pizza here suxs now! thank goodness for Di Fara Pizza ion Brooklyn /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


Ed Levine posts about something we at Slice have commented on for years: the sorry state of New York pizza. In his post Pizza Slice Crisis in NYC, he writes:

The NYC slice, once a justifiable source of culinary pride in this town, is going to hell in a hand basket filled with pizza cheese and canned pizza sauce. Think about it. The streets of Manhattan are filled with slice joints, each one worse than the next. You know the slices I'm talking about. The crust is thick and gummy. Every bite brings a mouthful of unbaked dough. The sauce is canned pizza sauce. It tastes like Franco American on a bad day. The cheese is that abomination called pizza cheese, and there's so much of it on every piece that slice weights are approaching one pound.

I call this the Ray's syndrome. Ever since some variation of a Ray's (Original Ray's, Ray Bari, Imitation Ray's, ) started appearing on every corner, the state of the NYC slice has never been worse. Other mini-chains have also descended on our city like some kind of slice plague, and the situation has reached epic proportions. Our quality slice culture is fast disappearing. Interstingly, this fast deteriorating situation seems to be limited to Manhattan.

Brooklyn's quality slice culture remains intact, or certainly more intact than Manhattan's. Certain neighborhood in Queens have upheld slice standards well. And Staten Island, the home of Nunzio's and Joe and Pat's, is a veritable beacon of pizza slice quality.

That pretty much sums it up. Part of the reason I started Slice was to document the search for worthwhile pizza here and to help others find it. Since I've been at it, most of the places I've visited with great pizza have been strictly by-the-pie.

Such is the state of the slice itself that I hardly consider grabbing a single piece of pizza from a random pizzeria in Manhattan.* And that effectively rules out my favorite food for lunch.

So what's going on? My own not-so-intricate and not-so-novel conspiracy theory goes like this: Rents in Manhattan are too high, and pizza consumers just don't care.

If you're a pizzeria owner and you're doing bang-up business serving crap pizza to loads of people willing to eat it, what's your incentive to craft a pie made with fresh ingredients and good cheese? You'd be crazy to do so given the price on square footage on the island.

And the crowds keeping many of the subpar purveyors in business are primarily concerned with a quick meal on the go. Pizza, for many New Yorkers, is, sadly, not a destination meal. Sure, a lot of them probably know what they're eating is a [censored] slice, but when you've got 20 minutes for lunch and $3 in your pocket, what are gonna do?

This, then, is why I think many of the destination pizzerias are in out-of-the-way places. The pizzaioli who are concerned with high-quality slices and pies can't afford to ply their trade in high-rent areas. And so the destination pizzerias end up in the outer boroughs or in far-flung areas of Manhattan.

Perhaps I'll expand on this later. For now ... off to lunch! (And, most likely, it won't be pizza.)

Fran Crimi
10-11-2006, 09:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Quote Article: So what's going on? My own not-so-intricate and not-so-novel conspiracy theory goes like this: Rents in Manhattan are too high, and pizza consumers just don't care.

If you're a pizzeria owner and you're doing bang-up business serving crap pizza to loads of people willing to eat it, what's your incentive to craft a pie made with fresh ingredients and good cheese? You'd be crazy to do so given the price on square footage on the island.
<hr /></blockquote>


Hey naZ, great topic, although I'm not buying into this guy's reasoning entirely. This is about teaching the public what good pizza is. I'd venture to guess that these days, 90% of people who eat pizza don't have the foggiest idea of what quality pizza is. All they know is what's out there on the streets so they eat it.

I totally agree with the author that Ray's started this mess. It was just a matter of time before somebody went and ruined it. It's the same as I was saying before about the cheap quality stuff made in China. You can buy a spaghetti fork for a buck in a 99 cents store and watch it rust in a month, or you can buy one for 7 bucks and keep it for 20 years. To all too many people, all they see is a fork. They'll go for the cheaper price. Same with pizza. They need to be educated on what quality is.

I only wish someone had the guts to open up a quality pizzeria in Midtown Manhattan and take the loss for a short while. It won't be long before they do a booming business once people learn the difference between quality and junk. Then the others will either have to jump on board or go out of business.

Fran

Deeman3
10-11-2006, 09:05 AM
We may have 99% of the world's digestable Bar-be-que down in Dixie but you folks have the handle on pizza. I prefer NYC to Chicago pizza.

DeeMan

Gayle in MD
10-11-2006, 09:35 AM
hhhmmmmm...you just made me think of making home made pizza,

In the summer, it's steamed crabs every friday. In the winter, home made pizza every friday.

My Italian Grand Mother spent weekends with us when I was growing up. I people haven't ever had real Italian Pizza, well, you know, can't miss what ya never had.

Too bad to hear NY is not making good pizza these days. I did notice last time I was there, it isn't what it used to be.

Gayle in Md.

9 Ball Girl
10-11-2006, 11:02 AM
Ugh, I especially hate when they used processed mozzarella cheese. I still love bruschetta though.

nAz
10-11-2006, 12:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>
Hey naZ, great topic, although I'm not buying into this guy's reasoning entirely. This is about teaching the public what good pizza is. I'd venture to guess that these days, 90% of people who eat pizza don't have the foggiest idea of what quality pizza is. All they know is what's out there on the streets so they eat it.

so true.. you know pizza is very subjective... it's like when i was a kid growing up in Brooklyn Rockys Pizza was the best thing i ever had... and when i would venture to other neighborhoods i would find their Pizza to be sub par. that is probably the way other from different neighborhoods would think of Rockys, But the crap that passes for pizza now a days is among the worse i ever tried. shoooot at the local pizzeria we have Mexicans making my pizza like some bastardized assembly line using off the shelf made in GA. sause. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I totally agree with the author that Ray's started this mess. It was just a matter of time before somebody went and ruined it. It's the same as I was saying before about the cheap quality stuff made in China. You can buy a spaghetti fork for a buck in a 99 cents store and watch it rust in a month, or you can buy one for 7 bucks and keep it for 20 years. To all too many people, all they see is a fork. They'll go for the cheaper price. Same with pizza. They need to be educated on what quality is.

Ya I hate Rays too never cared for soggy over sized pizzas, I like the thin crust kind

I only wish someone had the guts to open up a quality pizzeria in Midtown Manhattan and take the loss for a short while. It won't be long before they do a booming business once people learn the difference between quality and junk. Then the others will either have to jump on board or go out of business.

lol $5 a slice or more...

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

nAz
10-11-2006, 12:14 PM
Steamed Crabs have not had that in while.

whats for Thanks giving, steamed Turkey? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nAz
10-11-2006, 12:14 PM
Dee when was that last time you were up this way?

nAz
10-11-2006, 12:20 PM
Found this top ten list, I only been to 4 of these places and they were really good... but if anyone is in Brooklyn you have to check out 1424 Ave. J, Brooklyn, NY 11230 at E. 15th St. damn long wait but it really is worth it.




De Marco's Italian
Quick Bites
146 W. Houston St.
New York, NY 10012
212-253-2290
Brooklyn's best pizza comes to town. More...

Grimaldi's Pizza
13/20
19 Old Fulton St.
Brooklyn, NY 11201
718-858-4300
Coal-oven pizzas that persuade people to line up for a long wait. More...

Joe's Pizza Pizza
Quick Bites
7 Carmine St.
New York, NY 10014
212-255-3946
This casual West Village pizza joint offers a winning fresh mozzarella-and-tomatoes slice. More...

John's Pizza
Quick Bites
278 Bleecker St.
New York, NY 10014
212-243-1680
This old-school pizzeria in the West Village is well worth the wait. More...

Lombardi's Pizza
12/20
32 Spring St.
New York, NY 10012
212-941-7994
You might think you are in Big Italy when you taste the fresh mozzarella and basil that this local favorite has served for generations. More...

Nick's Pizza Pizza
Quick Bites
108-26 Ascan Ave.
Forest Hills, NY 11375
718-263-1126
More...

No. 28 Carmine Italian
Quick Bites
28 Carmine St.
New York, NY 10014
212-463-9653
No. 1 in real Italian pizza. More...

Patsy's Pizza Pizza
Quick Bites
2287 First Ave.
New York, NY 10035
212-534-9783
Authentic New York pizza in its original 1930s East Harlem location. More...

Totonno's Pizza
Quick Bites
1524 Neptune Ave.
Brooklyn, NY 11224
718-372-8606
This family-run pizza joint has been drawing crowds to Coney Island for eight decades. More...

Una Pizza Napoletana Pizza
Quick Bites
349 E. 12th St.
New York, NY 10003
212-477-9950
A real taste of Naples in the East Village. More...

Deeman3
10-11-2006, 12:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> Dee when was that last time you were up this way? <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> I was there about a month after 9/11 but did not have time for pizza. I have been intending to make a trip there but have not made any plans as of late. I love the city.....If I come there, I'll expect to se the NYC gang of CCB'ers. </font color>

DeeMan

Gayle in MD
10-11-2006, 01:31 PM
LOL...Roasted Turkey! Mashed spuds with gravy, dressing, fresh green beans, Candied Yams with melted marshmallo on top, antipasti, not the restraurant kind, broccoli casserole, home made dinner rolls, stuffed cheese and meat ravioli, with sauce, pecan pie, pumpkin pie, red velvet cake...wine, iced tea, hot cider, and egg nog.

Same menu for Christmas... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

TomBrooklyn
10-13-2006, 03:08 AM
Just so you know, my family owned the Pizzaria on 69th and 4th. (Not the one that is there now--the one that was behind the bar when it was a bar.) And I was a pizza maker. Oh, and some people told me I made the best pizza they ever had.

DickLeonard
10-13-2006, 07:22 AM
Fran when I was delivering Liquor one of the restaurants that I delivered to would make a pizza with all the ingredients mixed into the pie for the employees to eat for dinner. I was always offered a piece of what I thought was the best pizza I had ever eaten. For the life of me I can't remember the restaurants name but the staff always requested the pie for their dinner.####

wolfdancer
10-13-2006, 07:37 AM
Dick, if it's October......it must be winter in WNY. I think you're in the tri-cities area though....and maybe didn't get in on the fun.
Road closures, power lines down....standard stuff there for the winter, but oct??
Best Pizza I've ever had the "Bocce Club" restaurant in Buffalo.

DickLeonard
10-13-2006, 11:54 AM
Wolfdancer the biggest snow storm besides Tony Snow's BS happen just after the NYS Thruway opened up in around Syracuse they got hit with 100 inches of snow. The Thruway was shut down for 5 days. They didn't get plowed out till the City of New York sent 100 plows up the Thruway to clear it off. They didn't need their plows because they didn't get any snow.####

FatsRedux
10-14-2006, 11:33 PM
There's a place two blocks away from me it has the best pizza around here (Northern Hudson county, NJ).

Nice thin crisp crust, real gravy (that's right GRAVY-- no real Italian calls it sauce) plus olive oil, spices, and lots of primo mozzarella.

nAz
10-16-2006, 02:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote FatsRedux:</font><hr> There's a place two blocks away from me it has the best pizza around here (Northern Hudson county, NJ).

Nice thin crisp crust, real gravy (that's right GRAVY-- no real Italian calls it sauce) plus olive oil, spices, and lots of primo mozzarella.




<hr /></blockquote>

oh shoot whats up Fats... hey if I'm ever in that part of NJ i will definitely try it out.

DickLeonard
10-18-2006, 10:19 AM
Wolfdancer I finally remembered the name of the Restaurant with the best pizza pie. It was Fredricks in Lake Placid and it wasn't an Italian restaurant. Fred was just a Great Cook.####