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moblsv
10-11-2006, 03:20 PM
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/10/olbermann-why-does-habeas-corpus-hate-america/

This story has been buried by Foleygate, which is a crime in itself. I had the honor of hearing Daniel Ellsberg and John Siegenthaler Sr. speak last night and the key subject was journalism in today's political environment. We are one of the only countries in the world without an official secrets act, due in a large part to the uniqueness of our first amendment. Sadly this very bill puts us even closer to enacting such legislation and putting a muzzle on the media that would have prevented the extraordinary act of patriotism that Ellsberg exhibited, as well as those that followed in the entire Watergate scandal.

Transcript available below the fold.

Because the Mark Foley story began to break the night of September 28th, exploding the following day, many people may not have noticed a bill passed by the Senate that night.

Our third story on the Countdown tonight, the Military Commissions Act of 2006 and what it does to something called "habeas corpus."

And before we reduce the very term "habeas corpus" to something vaguely recalled as sounding kinda like the cornerstone of freedom, or maybe kinda like a character from "Harry Potter," we thought a Countdown Special Investigation was in order.

Congress passed The Military Commissions Act to give Mr. Bush the power to deal effectively with America's enemies — those who seek to harm this country.

And he has been very clear about who that is:

"…for people to leak that program, and for a newspaper to publish it does great harm to the United States of America."

So the president said it was urgent that Congress send him this bill as quickly as possible, not for the politics of next month's elections, but for America.

"The fact that we're discussing this program is helping the enemy."

Because time was of the essence–and to ensure that the 9/11 families would wait no longer–as soon as he got the bill, President Bush whipped out his pen and immediately signed a statement saying he looks forward to signing the actual law…eventually.

He hasn't signed it yet, almost two weeks later, because he has been swamped by a series of campaign swings at which he has made up quotes from unnamed Democratic leaders, and because when he is actually at work, he's been signing so many other important bills, such as:

The Credit Rating Agency Reform Act;

the Third Higher Education Extension Act;

ratification requests for extradition treaties with Malta, Estonia and Latvia;

his proclamation of German-American Day;

the Partners for Fish and Wildlife Act;

and his proclamation of Leif Erikson Day.

Still, getting the Military Commissions Act to the President so he could immediately mull it over for two weeks was so important, some members of Congress didn't even read the bill before voting on it. Thus, has some of its minutiae, escaped scrutiny.

One bit of trivia that caught our eye was the elimination of habeas corpus. which apparently used to be the right of anyone who's tossed in prison, to appear in court and say, "Hey, why am I in prison?"

Why does habeas corpus hate America…and how is it so bad for us?

Mr. Bush says it gets in the way of him doing his job.

[video clip]Bush: "…we cannot be able to tell the American people we're doing our full job unless we have the tools necessary to do so. And this legislation passed in the House yesterday is a part of making sure that we do have the capacity to protect you. Our most solemn job is the security of this country."

It may be solemn…

[video clip] Bush: "I do solemnly swear…"

But is that really his job? In this rarely seen footage, Mr. Bush is clearly heard describing a different job.

[video clip]…to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States..

Countdown has obtained a copy of this "Constitution of the United States."

And sources tell us it was originally snuck through the Constitutional Convention and state ratification in order to establish America's fundamental legal principles.

But this so-called Constitution is frustratingly vague about the right to trial. In fact, there's only one reference to habeas corpus at all. Quote: "The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it."

But even Democrats who voted against the Military Commissions Act concede that it doesn't actually suspend habeas corpus.

[video clip] Leahy: The bill before the Senate would not merely suspend the great writ, the great writ of habeas corpus, it would eliminate it permanently.

And there is considerable debate whether the conditions for suspending habeas corpus, rebellion or invasion, have been met.

[video clip] Leahy: conditions for suspending habeas corpus have not been met.

[video clip] Kerry: We're not in a rebellion, nor are we being invaded.

[video clip] Specter: We do not have a rebellion or an invasion.

[video clip] Biden: The United States is neither in a state of rebellion nor invasion.

[video clip] Byrd: We are not in the midst of a rebellion, and there is no invasion.

Countdown has learned that habeas corpus actually predates the "Constitution," meaning it's not just pre-September 11th thinking, it's also pre-July 4th thinking.

In those days, no one imagined that enemy combatants might one day attack Americans on native soil.

In fact, Countdown has obtained a partially redacted copy of a colonial "declaration" indicating that back then, "depriving us of Trial by Jury" was actually considered sufficient cause to start a War of Independence, based on the then-fashionable idea that "liberty" was an unalienable right.

Today, thanks to modern, post-9/11 thinking, those rights are now fully alienable.

The reality is, without habeas corpus, a lot of other rights lose their meaning.

But if you look at the actual Bill of Rights — the first ten amendments to that pesky Constitution — you'll see just how many remain.

Well, ok, Number One's gone.

If you're detained without trial, you lose your freedom of religion, speech, the press and assembly. And you can't petition the government for anything.

Number Two? While you're in prison, your right to keep and bear arms just may be infringed upon.

Even if you're in the NRA.

Three?

No forced sleepovers by soldiers at your house. OK. Three is unchanged.

Four?

You're definitely not secure against searches and seizures, with or without probable cause - and this isn't even limited to the guards.

Five… Grand juries and due process are obviously out.

Six. So are trials, let alone the right to counsel. Speedy trials? You want it when?

Seven. Hmmmm. I thought we covered "trials" and "juries" earlier.

Eight — So bail's kind of a moot point…

Nine: "Other" rights retained by the people. Well, if you can name them during your water-boarding, we'll consider them.

And Ten — powers not delegated to the United States federal government seem to have ended up there, anyway.

So as you can see, even without habeas corpus, at least one tenth of the Bill of Rights, I guess that's the Bill of "Right" now… remains virtually intact.

And we can rest easy knowing we will never, ever have to quarter soldiers in our homes… as long as the Third Amendment still stands strong.

The President can take care of that with a Signing Statement.

pooltchr
10-11-2006, 04:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr> [video clip] Leahy: conditions for suspending habeas corpus have not been met.

[video clip] Kerry: We're not in a rebellion, nor are we being invaded.

[video clip] Specter: We do not have a rebellion or an invasion.

[video clip] Biden: The United States is neither in a state of rebellion nor invasion.

[video clip] Byrd: We are not in the midst of a rebellion, and there is no invasion.

<hr /></blockquote>

If an estimated 12 million illegal aliens on our soil doesn't constitute an invasion, I don't know what does.

Steve

Drop1
10-11-2006, 06:19 PM
This is the second attempt to suspend habeas-corpus by the Bush administration. The difference with this effort,is the wording is directed at illegal alliens where an attempt to harm the country is suspected. The idea of permanently suspending habeas-corpus for all citizens would put us right up there,with Saddam Hussain. Its a stupid idea,and not necessary.

Drop1
10-11-2006, 06:27 PM
I think you have to look at the intent for being here. If twelve million illegal aliens plan to fly planes into buildings,I would call that an invasion. How do you round up twelve million people? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think the rule change in Medical,in California is a step in the right direction, if you cannot prove you are a citizen,there is no medical aid.

pooltchr
10-11-2006, 07:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> I think you have to look at the intent for being here. If twelve million illegal aliens plan to fly planes into buildings,I would call that an invasion. <hr /></blockquote>
12 million people in this country, every single one of them has shown their contempt for our laws, and as such, for our country and our society. They broke our law as soon as they arrived. Approximately 80% of the unsolved violent crimes in our city, the suspects are believed to have fled the country. Not to mention the ones we do catch. Case in point. A illegal recently found DWI after he hit a car head-on and killed a local high school teacher. This was his FIFTH DWI, he has been found to be here illegally, and he remained here long enough for FIVE DWIs!
Yes, we are being invaded! We are being invaded by people who willingly break our laws. Now, are they going to get drunk and kill a teacher, or steal a passenger jet and kill thousands? It's just a matter of degree! You are either a criminal or you aren't! It's like being pregnant. You can't be a little bit pregnant. You can't be a little bit of a criminal.

Now....12 million criminals here illegally sure as hell sounds like an invasion to me!

Steve

Drop1
10-11-2006, 07:42 PM
I don't want ilegals here,any more than you do. I'm against every program that supports amnesty. And you are right,when they crossed the border ignoring our laws. What I want is a system that allows people to do farm work,and return to their country of origin,with no path to citizenship. What I do not believe,is they are terrorists. One problem is anyone that speaks spanish is assumed to be Mexican. I think most of the prison inmates are from El Salvador,and just recently the laws were changed to send them back. Bottom line,there is no plan that will work to stop the flow of aliens,as long as the countries they come from can count on them sending money home,and are unwilling to control their side of the border,and get out of bed with the drug lords. The only thing the wall will do is make the drug dealers ritcher.

pooltchr
10-12-2006, 05:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> What I do not believe,is they are terrorists. <hr /></blockquote>

I do not believe that they are all terrorists. But with the open flow of illegals, how do we make sure that even a few of them aren't? Plenty of them are members of gangs, who contribute to the crime and violence in our country.

The real point is that if they are here illegally, we don't even know who they are. If we don't know who they are, or their reason for being here, how do we know that some of them aren't terrorists. Or, what is to keep terrorists from coming into this country illegally the same way the other 12 million got here? <font color="red"> The only solution is zero tolerence for illegals. </font color>
Steve

hondo
10-12-2006, 07:13 AM
Tap! Tap! Tap! What he said.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> This is the second attempt to suspend habeas-corpus by the Bush administration. The difference with this effort,is the wording is directed at illegal alliens where an attempt to harm the country is suspected. The idea of permanently suspending habeas-corpus for all citizens would put us right up there,with Saddam Hussain. Its a stupid idea,and not necessary. <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
10-12-2006, 07:45 AM
Steve,
Many say it is more like thirty million illegals... But, tell me, how can Bush justify every law he breaks, every Constitutional protection he destroys, and at the same time, hasn't acted on the recommendations of the 9/11 commission, which are urgent safety methods, for our protection? I am so sick of hearing him talk about protecting Americans I could scream. Everything he does makes us more unsafe. Even his own NSE agencies, say so. Sixteen of them, to be exact.

The only reason why he is now destroying yet another Constitutional right, is so that he can get out of having the people he has tortured have the opportunity to stand in front of a judge, and tell their story, of how they were innocent, but jailed and tortured nevertheless.

Tell me, what do you think of a president who stands up there, over and over, and says, "The United States does not torture our prisoners" While we all know, that he is sending them to other countries to be tortured by others? Innocent people, who will never have their day in court, so that he can get out of breaking our laws.

Now, he's got it set up so that our Journalists, can be designated by HIM, as being a threat to America, everytime they report to us more of his lies.

Illegal immigration has more than quadruppled since he has been in office. Yes, we're being invaded, and it would be easy to stop it if he would spend the money he's giving away to oil billionaires, on up-grading our VISA program, which is, btw, how Mohammed Atta, and his cronies, were able to stay in this country until they were good and ready to kill our people. And, implement heavy fines for Employers who hire them.

I get sick and tired of his, "Jobs Americans won't do, when I know people who worked in fields to pay their way through college, before those wages were driven down by cheap labor.

Do you think, it's just coincidence, that American's costs for Oil, and Pharmeceuticals, have more than doubled, since he's been in there, and they were his biggest contributors?

Please, tell me one good thing he has done, other than cut taxes, that he pays for by borrowing money from China, to the tune of $30,000.00 debt for every single American in this country.

His biggest contributors were OIL and Pharmaceuticals. Our costs for both have more than doubled. You think that's just a coincidence? Follow the money, then look at what is happening to American Industry, American wages, American Debt, and American Billionaires! Any President, who allows the OIL Companies, to set our energy policy, is not interested in what the average American family is struggling to pay, nor in what they are doing to our environment.

Only the Veterans Administration is allowed to shop price, for drugs, but we can't, he outlawed it, and their drugs cost half what the rest of us are paying. He is encouraging the outsourcing of jobs, importing of cheap labor, and gouging the hell out of everyone but the rich.

If you think the laws of suppy and demand are running economics in this country, then please, tell me why the Average wages are dropping, while the top 1% and wealthy CEO's in this country, the billionaires, are enjoying exhorbitant, unprecedented profits?

The illegal alien issue, is just one of the ways that George Bush is destroying American life for all but the rich.

Follow the money!

DickLeonard
10-13-2006, 07:44 AM
Steve as a Loyal Democratic American on 9/12 2001 they would have been packing their bags and going home and Speaking Spanish press 2 would have been removed from the telephones. It is the the Flaw in GWBs we can protect you.####