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Gayle in MD
10-23-2006, 08:50 PM
Snow Job

Q Tony, it seems what you have is not "stay the course." Has anybody told the President he should stop calling it "stay the course" then?

MR. SNOW: I don't think he's used that term in a while.

Q Oh, yes, he has, repeatedly.

MR. SNOW: When?

Q Well, in August, because I wrote a story saying he didn't use it -- and I was quite sternly corrected.

MR. SNOW: No, he stopped using it.

Q Why would he stop using it?

MR. SNOW: Because it left the wrong impression about what was going on. And it allowed critics to say, well, here's an administration that's just embarked upon a policy and not looking at what the situation is, when, in fact, it's just the opposite. The President is determined not to leave Iraq short of victory, but he also understands that it's important to capture the dynamism of the efforts that have been ongoing to try to make Iraq more secure, and therefore, enhance the clarification -- or the greater precision.

Q Is the President responsible for the fact people think it's stay the course since he's, in fact, described it that way himself?

MR. SNOW: No.


Well....No doubt...there will soon come a new definition for Victory, LMAO!

nAz
10-23-2006, 09:08 PM
oh mercy! it is really comical /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif ... yet sad at the same time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Gayle in MD
10-23-2006, 09:19 PM
I'm sure the Rovians will come up with some new plan for dealing with Iraq, just before the election, of course, but it will only be more semantics, with no true change of course. Bottom line, they put the wrong Iraqis in power over there. Nothing is going to change that, and they can't change it, now. Those Iraqis, are now promising amnesty for the same people who are killing our troops. We need to get our people out of there NOW! If we don't, the violence will continue, and we'll see another swift withdrawel, just like Vietnam. It's going to get worse, and eventually the blood bath will be so bad, the Generals, both houses, and the American people will demand withdrawel. The longer we stay, the more lives will be lost, and Bush will NEVER bring them home, unless we force him to do so.

I wonder what most of the Iraqis would say if we asked them, "Are you better off now, than before Bush invaded your country?"

I think we know the answer to that one. It didn't get better after they voted, it didn't get better after the new Government was formed, it didn't get better after the Constitution was written, it didn't get better after the training of Iraqis, it isn't going to get better. Democrats should call Bush's bluff, and come right out and say, "We're cutting our losses, and ending a failed, misguided, unrealistic policy, that was wrong from the start. We refuse to leave our troops, in a quagmire, to be slaughtered! Vote for us, and we'll bring them all home, and implement the legal processes available to ensure optimum safety here on our shores."

The terrorists in al Qaeda, are plotting their next attack, whether we're in Iraq, or not in Iraq, makes no difference, they're still planning it.

Gayle in Md.

FatsRedux
10-24-2006, 12:46 AM
The first mistake was dismissing the "Powell Doctrine".

The next mistake was getting us into this "nation building" thing. Our military is second to none on purely offensive conventional warfare terms, we do not do so well when it comes to nation building and all that other horse puckey.

If we were going to get the job done we should have blown the whole damned place to kingdom come with conventional weapons and then rounded up the remaining "leaders" and said, --SEE YA! OH AND BY THE WAY DON'T EVER F**K WITH US AGAIN, AND THEN LEFT.

Gayle in MD
10-24-2006, 07:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote> The first mistake was dismissing the "Powell Doctrine". Absolutely!!!

The next mistake was getting us into this "nation building" thing. Yes, and wan't that one of Bush's campaign promises, no Nation Building? Our military is second to none on purely offensive conventional warfare terms, we do not do so well when it comes to nation building and all that other horse puckey. I agree, and it was particularly stupid to attempt it in an area of so much contention among the various tribes, and ethnic groups.

If we were going to get the job done we should have blown the whole damned place to kingdom come with conventional weapons and then rounded up the remaining "leaders" and said, --SEE YA! OH AND BY THE WAY DON'T EVER F**K WITH US AGAIN, AND THEN LEFT. [ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>
[b]I subscribe to the Roosevelt theory, "Walk softly, and carry a big stick" We have always had plenty of big sticks! Sometimes I think the leaders over there want to make us think they're crazy, because they don't ever have the big sticks they try to make us think they have. I think there is a lot of bluffing that goes on, but, nevertheless, their percieved threats, should be handled internationally, not through occupations, and pre-emption, IMHO.[/b

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
10-24-2006, 07:42 AM
"Stay the course" is nothing more than a sound bite by itself. It depends on what you mean by it. If "Stay the course" means moving toward victory, then I agree. If it means not changing tactics toward that end, then I can't agree. The situation in Iraq is constantly changing. We need to be flexible enough to change with it.

If you were traveling to Charlotte, you would have to start out on I-95, but at some point, you need to change direction if you want to get here. I-95 is the course you follow at first, but you gotta get on I-85 to reach your ultimate objective. If you don't, you end up in Miami!

I think we started out on the right highway when the whole thing in Iraq started. I also think that somewhere along the line, we may have taken a wrong exit! Maybe it's time to get out the road map and see which direction will get us to the ultimate goal.
Steve

Gayle in MD
10-24-2006, 08:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote> "Stay the course" is nothing more than a sound bite by itself. It depends on what you mean by it. If "Stay the course" means moving toward victory, then I agree. If it means not changing tactics toward that end, then I can't agree. The situation in Iraq is constantly changing. We need to be flexible enough to change with it.
Steve, I must say, you have already embraced the administration's new definition for "Stay The Course" But, rather than you and I arguing about what that meant, just look up him many references to it, it was clear, a stable Iraq, able to defend itself, and we would stay, until the Iraqis stand up, then we'll stand down. Clearly, that was what he meant. As circumstances have continued to worsen, and the violence has increased, and Iraqis began to kill one another at a greater and greater rate, bush STILL said only "Stay The Course" and reiterated exactly what that meant, each time. STaying until Iraqis could defend themselves, and Iraq was stable, and Iraqis stood up for their own safety.
Now, what if that is NEVER going to happen, or what if it would take fifteen years of our troops being slaughtered, and the Iraqis continued to fight amongst themselves? Then what? Civil Wars, which I assume you must by now agree, that this IS in fact, a Civil War, but, Civil Wars, can last a very very long time. forgot to click on bold...
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If you were traveling to Charlotte, you would have to start out on I-95, but at some point, you need to change direction if you want to get here. I-95 is the course you follow at first, but you gotta get on I-85 to reach your ultimate objective. If you don't, you end up in Miami!

What do you think your chances of a safe arrival would be if you drove recklessly, and didn't watch the highway signs?

I think we started out on the right highway when the whole thing in Iraq started. I also think that somewhere along the line, we may have taken a wrong exit! Maybe it's time to get out the road map and see which direction will get us to the ultimate goal.
Steve

Well, I don't agree, I think when you take a trip, you should atleast be heading toward a destination which exists. If you started out heading to Italy, but didn't adjust for crossing the Atlantic Ocean, I don't think you'd ever arrive in Italy, do you?

The only way out of this mess, is to redefine victory, which is exactly what Bush is beginning to do. You do realize, I hope, that no one seems able to come up with a satisfactory policy change in this failed policy that looks anything like his original stated goal, don't you?

Plain and simple, the Iraqis will not stand up for Democracy, they are killing one another, just as was predicted by most reasonable, clear thinking, well informed policy experts, former Presidents, and National Security, and Military Strategists.

This was a huge mistake, ill conceived at the outset, mishandled shortly after occupation, and covered up with denial throughout. It is a failure. Bush, is about to get his come-up-ance, and he well deserves it, IMO. but, don't worry, redefining history is his expertise, and with Karl Rove's help, he'll soon be wearing a new suit, only most of us won't be able to see it, and for those of us who don't he's going to be naked.

Gayle in Md. Know's sometimes reality looks and sounds like gloom and doom, just depends on how big a mess in which one finds oneself.

Drop1
10-24-2006, 10:56 AM
I didn't see that on the Libertarian Platform. Its obvious you are not speaking for them.

Drop1
10-24-2006, 10:58 AM
And thats the truth!!!!LOL

FatsRedux
10-24-2006, 12:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> I didn't see that on the Libertarian Platform. Its obvious you are not speaking for them. <hr /></blockquote>

Yep, it's my own take on the matter.