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warpedshaft
11-07-2006, 07:55 AM
Dear fellow members of the pool world...We have been hustled. Or maybe more appropriately, we have been f***ed.
I remember how elated I was when word of this new supertour started going around. A tour that would finally put pool on the same level as golf, or at least bring it close, in terms of exposure, respect and prize money. Millions in prize money was the rumor. I sat and watched Mike Sigel at the Orlando Billiard Center as he practiced almost every day on the brand new table that was built just for him to practice on before his reemergence on the pool scene in a match that was being billed like a heavyweight boxing championship. I sat and listened to him go on about how great Trudeau was, how he was going to give pool a new life. And all I could think of, was “Wasn’t this the same guy who made all that money off those stupid f***ing infomercials?” That and, “Wasn’t that also the same guy who got fined by the FTC for false advertising?”. Sure enough, it was. I wasn’t the only one who noticed. Many others did as well. Champions and laymen alike. But money is a seductress. Very easy to ignore history when all seems to be falling into place. And that it did. The first couple of tournaments went off beautifully. But let us not forget what drives billionaires. Greed. Plain and simple. This is a man who made money off the stupidity of others. Perhaps he sees himself as a teacher of sorts, unwilling to learn lessons himself. If you are stupid enough to trust me, then you are stupid enough to lose your money was probably the only thought occupying his conniving little brain. Well, many did. And many are now feeling pretty stupid. Anyone can easily research this man’s past (See his wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau or www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/trudeau.html (http://www.quackwatch.org/02ConsumerProtection/FTCActions/trudeau.html), among countless others) to discover just how comfortable this man has become with the fact that he peddles deception. So comfortable in fact, he has actually convinced himself that his products work, that he, and he alone knows the miraculous “natural” cure for cancer. His performance in front of interviewers is worthy of an Oscar. Satan himself would be jealous.
So, let us examine what exactly might be the truth behind this latest series of events. As reported by Azbilliards.com, probably the most respected and widely read pool website, players were told the fund would be cut by 66% for no reason whatsoever. This was not a casual decision. It was very calculated, obviously. Calculated, but a gamble nonetheless. What is he gambling on? Perhaps the nature of the professional pool player. Perhaps that most players need money so badly, especially their share of $1,000,000, that they would rather bend over and take it than fight tooth and nail to get what was promised, but more importantly, what they deserve. Kevin Trudeau is gambling that professional pool players are a disjointed, destitute, group of pussies. He already mentioned his offense taken at all the players approaching him for loans in the AZBilliards.com interview. Of course, he has highly paid lawyers working for him. And from a legal standpoint, he can probably find some kind of contractual loophole with which to defend himself. A court battle may not accompish anything, and worse, it may cause players to lose all prize money. Nonetheless, there must be a fight. Maybe in court, maybe not. For even if a small number of players band together and file a lawsuit and he is forced by a court to pay the original $3,000,000 fund, he will still come out smelling like roses. What does he have to lose that he already didn’t promise? He believes that if he got to be a billionaire by ripping people off, then he must be doing something right. Apparently, he is not worried if his already filthy reputation gets any filthier. What needs to happen now is more than just a lawsuit. This man must be exposed like never before. This story must reach the pages of Time, the offices of 60 Minutes. He must be revealed for who he truly is. A charlatan, a crook, a deceptive, uncaring, greedy piece of s**t. Perhaps all this is obvious and has been said already. Nonetheless, I felt obligated, not as a champion, but as an avid pool enthusiast, to express my outrage at what has been done to us. Fast Eddie got his thumbs broken by two men for hustling. Let us break Trudeau’s thumbs as a community of millions.

quietone
11-07-2006, 01:55 PM
I can't say that I disagree with anything you've said about Mr. Trudeau, warpedshaft. But was it necessary to seek support for your opinions by crediting another website with reports and interviews that were originally submitted right here on the BD website, and isn't this BD's forum we're on? I'm not trying to be picky with you, I just think we need to be careful not to offend any entity that graciously provides free services like this forum.

Profcuestroke
11-12-2006, 07:48 AM
I can't say I disagree with your opinion of Mr. Trudueau but frankly I could care less about who or what he is. All I care about is what he might bring or take away from this sport of ours.

For the record the IPT wouldn't be the first promoter to come up short on payouts. (I seem to have heard some scuttlebutt that Strickland never got the million for his super run) Generally, when such things happen the players not only lose their prize moneies but also their entry fees, etc.

My understanding of the situation doesn't have the players out of pocket. There's no (direct, at least) ripoff of the players or community. My further understanding is that Trudeau took a big gamble with his own money to promote and profit (yes) from the IPT and the sport. Initially, he put out over $5 million which wasn't even tickled by entry fees in putting on the first couple of events.

During the $3 million dollar event he SOLD the IPT, presumably for enough cash and retained interest to more than recoup his expenditures and probably reap a tidy profit.

The new owner got sideswiped by the US anti-online gambling legislation probably causing him to rethink his investment. In what I would view as a very foolish move he resolved to fiddle with the $3 million payout. Currently, there seems to have been some resolution where all the moneies would be paid out but over time rather than immediately.

I view all this as unfortunate but hopefully not fatal to either the IPT or more importantly to big money, major exposure billiards.

I think the IPT and the major money, major sport concept it created needs our help and support. Trudeau will, I expect, land on his feet regardless of what happens. Our sport may not. We owe it to ourselves and our sport to do whatever we can to at least give it a soft landing although I would much prefer a blastoff.

Thanks for listening and

May all the rolls be with you.

The old professor,
profcuestroke

MrLucky
11-12-2006, 08:05 AM
just a few questions, the sale is done?
did not the players have to pay entry fees / their lodging and airfare to get to the events and their cost while at these events ? not to mention the lost wages and earnings they would have made otherwise?? Just curious since you stated they "lost nothing from their pockets" /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Profcuestroke
11-13-2006, 08:46 AM
Please understand that I am not privy to any special or inside information. I just read the reports and keep my ear to the ground like most everybody else.

Trudeau announced the sale of the IPT at the player's meeting for the $3 million tournament. His statement was that it was a done deal except for the finalization of the wording and minor issues. The purchaser was reported as a Chinese billionaire casino owner (a Mr. Ho, I believe). Trudeau would be under contract for five years and the IPT was to go public with an IPO around the first of the year. A later press release stated that the deal had been finalised.

It is my understanding that there was no entry fee for any of the major IPT tournaments. They were open to 150 IPT card holders and 50 qualifiers. The qualifying players for the $3 million tournament in question came from 25 qualifier tournaments for which the entry fee was $2000. The top two from each qualifier gained a spot in the tournament. There were mini qualifiers where with a $200-$300 entry fee you could win an entry to the qualifier.

The minimum payout for each compeditor in the $3 million tournament was set at $5000. Of the 200 players there were slightly more than 50 qualifiers (a few IPT members couldn't participate and their slots were filled by qualifier alternates). These qualifiers could have indirectly paid up to $2000 for the right to play. The 150 IPT members would have been through the prior $2 million dollar tournament where the minimum payout was $2000 and everyone was paid. Incidentally, a high percentage of the qualifiers went beyond the first round so their price claim would be substantially higher.

My understanding on the $3 million tournament is that there was an offer of half that was rejected and that there has been a quasi settlement where all the monies would be paid out in installments. A recent press release stated that the first checks were being mailed.

In that senario, it is hard for me to imagine any of the tournament participants actually being out of pocket in any significant way. Although. geatly disapointed, I can fully understand.

Also, 2006 IPT card holders were guaranteed $13,000 for the '06 fiscal year and 2007 card holders would be guaranteed $100,000 for '07. There is no word that any of these guarantees have been recinded.

Should there be any law suits, if I were an '07 IPT card holder, I'd forget the tournament purse and go for the $100 grand guarantee. Hopefully, none of that will be necessary and the IPT will get its wheels back on track and pool players (like snooker players in Britain and carom players in France and other parts of Europe) will be able to hold their heads up and make a damn good living doing what they love in our beautiful sport.

There are 232 players listed on the IPT participant roster. Three, Buddy Hall, Wei Liu and Jim Rempe did not compete and have no tour earnings posted. Ten played in the $2 million dollar tournament only and collected $2000. Twenty-four made their debut in the $3 million tournament and got knocked out in the first round. Six more newbies made it to the second round before being knocked out. That means at least 23 of the qualifiers went beyond the second round; their minimum tour earnings would have to be something over $6 thousand. At the same time there were 46 '06 IPT card holders who never made it out of the first round of either tournament, including such notables as: Mike Massey, Danny DiLiberto and Grady Mathews; which says a lot about the level of play. Their tour earnings were $7 thousand of which they've been paid $2000 plus whatever they'll collect of their $5000 from the last event.

All this is being played out against the backdrop of a sport where many of the best players had quit because they couldn't make a living from the tournaments. Where top players had to gamble (often against each other) to make any money. It was common for dedicated players to sleep in jails (eg. Cliff "The Grinder" Thorburn) or under tables (eg. Jack "Jersey Red" Breit).

I think it's up to us, for the sport and in homage to all those great players who sacrificed so much of themselves for the game, to make the IPT dream a reality, regardless of who the players (read that participants) are.

Again, May all the rolls be with you.

The old professor,
Profcuestroke

Profcuestroke
11-13-2006, 08:48 AM
Please understand that I am not privy to any special or inside information. I just read the reports and keep my ear to the ground like most everybody else.

Trudeau announced the sale of the IPT at the player's meeting for the $3 million tournament. His statement was that it was a done deal except for the finalization of the wording and minor issues. The purchaser was reported as a Chinese billionaire casino owner (a Mr. Ho, I believe). Trudeau would be under contract for five years and the IPT was to go public with an IPO around the first of the year. A later press release stated that the deal had been finalised.

It is my understanding that there was no entry fee for any of the major IPT tournaments. They were open to 150 IPT card holders and 50 qualifiers. The qualifying players for the $3 million tournament in question came from 25 qualifier tournaments for which the entry fee was $2000. The top two from each qualifier gained a spot in the tournament. There were mini qualifiers where with a $200-$300 entry fee you could win an entry to the qualifier.

The minimum payout for each compeditor in the $3 million tournament was set at $5000. Of the 200 players there were slightly more than 50 qualifiers (a few IPT members couldn't participate and their slots were filled by qualifier alternates). These qualifiers could have indirectly paid up to $2000 for the right to play. The 150 IPT members would have been through the prior $2 million dollar tournament where the minimum payout was $2000 and everyone was paid. Incidentally, a high percentage of the qualifiers went beyond the first round so their price claim would be substantially higher.

My understanding on the $3 million tournament is that there was an offer of half that was rejected and that there has been a quasi settlement where all the monies would be paid out in installments. A recent press release stated that the first checks were being mailed.

In that senario, it is hard for me to imagine any of the tournament participants actually being out of pocket in any significant way. Although. geatly disapointed, I can fully understand.

Also, 2006 IPT card holders were guaranteed $13,000 for the '06 fiscal year and 2007 card holders would be guaranteed $100,000 for '07. There is no word that any of these guarantees have been recinded.

Should there be any law suits, if I were an '07 IPT card holder, I'd forget the tournament purse and go for the $100 grand guarantee. Hopefully, none of that will be necessary and the IPT will get its wheels back on track and pool players (like snooker players in Britain and carom players in France and other parts of Europe) will be able to hold their heads up and make a damn good living doing what they love in our beautiful sport.

There are 232 players listed on the IPT participant roster. Three, Buddy Hall, Wei Liu and Jim Rempe did not compete and have no tour earnings posted. Ten played in the $2 million dollar tournament only and collected $2000. Twenty-four made their debut in the $3 million tournament and got knocked out in the first round. Six more newbies made it to the second round before being knocked out. That means at least 23 of the qualifiers went beyond the second round; their minimum tour earnings would have to be something over $6 thousand. At the same time there were 46 '06 IPT card holders who never made it out of the first round of either tournament, including such notables as: Mike Massey, Danny DiLiberto and Grady Mathews; which says a lot about the level of play. Their tour earnings were $7 thousand of which they've been paid $2000 plus whatever they'll collect of their $5000 from the last event.

All this is being played out against the backdrop of a sport where many of the best players had quit because they couldn't make a living from the tournaments. Where top players had to gamble (often against each other) to make any money. It was common for dedicated players to sleep in jails (eg. Cliff "The Grinder" Thorburn) or under tables (eg. Jack "Jersey Red" Breit).

I think it's up to us, for the sport and in homage to all those great players who sacrificed so much of themselves for the game, to make the IPT dream a reality, regardless of who the players (read that participants) are.

Again, May all the rolls be with you.

The old professor,
Profcuestroke

MrLucky
11-13-2006, 06:04 PM
Well1 that is certainly more info in one place than I have seen / heard since this all started!

in fact it sounds so nice I guess you had to say it twice!





/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif and no I am not related to Johnny Cochran!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Profcuestroke
11-13-2006, 10:58 PM
My appologies for the duplicate. My computer went into one of those craw modes and I thought it had hung and the post didn't go through so I clicked on it again.

If I can figure out a way to clean it up, I'll delete the dupe.

Profcuestroke

MrLucky
11-14-2006, 05:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Profcuestroke:</font><hr> My appologies for the duplicate. My computer went into one of those craw modes and I thought it had hung and the post didn't go through so I clicked on it again.

If I can figure out a way to clean it up, I'll delete the dupe.

Profcuestroke
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="green">Not a problem ! gave me a opportunity to try my hand at rhyming ! I wanted to try that ever since OJ! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

071838
11-14-2006, 08:39 PM
I know this wasn't the main thrust of your post, but the villain in the payoff for Earl Strickland's 11-rack run was not the tournament promoter (C.J. Wiley). It was the insurance company which originally underwrote the policy that would pay off such a run, and their defense - get this - was that because Strickland made the 9 on the break several times, he didn't fulfill the requirement of running the eleven racks! The resulting lawsuit was settled for a reported $300,000. As to your point that sports promoters have welshed on agreed-upon prizes before, I can't think of a single instance outside pool (Barry Behrman, in the '01 U.S. Open). Trudeau's failure to pay and subsequent blitz of stalls and deception are unprecedented in sports, as far as I'm concerned. GF

Profcuestroke
11-15-2006, 12:00 AM
Point taken. Although, at this point, I'm beginning to feel a little like Brer Rabbit and the tar baby.

One consideration though, while he's still the front, this is Ho's baby, not Trudeau's. When Trudeau owned the IPT and it was his money, all obligations were met. As per the player's meeting announcment, the premise of the sale to Ho was that his billions and business acumen would ensure the financial viability of the IPT well into the future.

Ho's apparent unwillingness to fund the tour's obligations not only brings a lie to that premise but also puts in jeapordy the tour and all its associate hopes and promises. And therein lies the rub. All the Trudeau bashing, whether deserved or not, is decidedly unproductive. I think our heads, hearts and energies should be focused on ways to salvage the tour, salvage the dream. Pool legitimate. Pool financially rewarding. Pool live on the telly. "Tis a consumation devoutly to be wished."

Oh, and thanks for the info on the Strickland matter.

The old professor,
Profcuestroke

Rich R.
11-15-2006, 03:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 071838:</font><hr>As to your point that sports promoters have welshed on agreed-upon prizes before, I can't think of a single instance outside pool (Barry Behrman, in the '01 U.S. Open). Trudeau's failure to pay and subsequent blitz of stalls and deception are unprecedented in sports, as far as I'm concerned. GF <hr /></blockquote>
George, let's not forget that there were extenuating circumstances in that '01 Open. Considering the 9/11 disaster, Barry could have very easily folded the tent and canceled the Open. No one would have questioned that decision, considering the circumstances. However, since all the players were already there, Barry decided to continue and do the best he could.

I don't believe you can compare the non-payment of players by Barry in '01, with the current situation with KT. Thankfully, there hasn't been another disaster and KT has no excuse.

Rich R.
11-15-2006, 03:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Profcuestroke:</font><hr> One consideration though, while he's still the front, this is Ho's baby, not Trudeau's. When Trudeau owned the IPT and it was his money, all obligations were met. <hr /></blockquote>
Let's be accurate here. The sale to Ho was not final until well after the Reno event and KT was still in charge, at the close of that event.
The players should have been paid on KT's watch.

Profcuestroke
11-15-2006, 04:07 AM
Like I said, fighting tar baby.

Maybe your right. But if it was my business, my home, my deal and I had it sold and was just waiting on closing, I don't think I'd be reaching into my pocket to pay for anything. I think, and I believe, rightly expect, the new owner to pony up for everything he had contracted to buy.

The old professor,
Profcuestroke

sheesha
11-15-2006, 05:24 AM
How do you know about the settlement amount and the cause of the settlement.The company or anyone else ever mentioned anything like what you mentioned the fact of Earl running the 11 racks was never a question.The company felt the odds based on someone doing this was misrepresented to them and with Earl doing this the first night of the first event was where their problem/debate was.

walt8880
11-15-2006, 05:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Profcuestroke:</font><hr> Like I said, fighting tar baby.

Maybe your right. But if it was my business, my home, my deal and I had it sold and was just waiting on closing, I don't think I'd be reaching into my pocket to pay for anything. I think, and I believe, rightly expect, the new owner to pony up for everything he had contracted to buy.

The old professor,
Profcuestroke
<hr /></blockquote>

There never was a sale made to Ho. The only person who ever implied a deal with Ho was Trudeau. He kept saying the deal was almost done, etc but this was not publicly confirmed or mentioned from the Ho side.

Rich R.
11-15-2006, 07:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Profcuestroke:</font><hr>But if it was my business, my home, my deal and I had it sold and was just waiting on closing, I don't think I'd be reaching into my pocket to pay for anything. I think, and I believe, rightly expect, the new owner to pony up for everything he had contracted to buy.
<hr /></blockquote>
From all public reports, negotiations were ongoing, during and after the Reno event. Nothing was sold, at that time. At the close of the event, KT had the responsibility to pay the players. He didn't and he kept delaying payments, using crazy excuses.

Fran Crimi
11-15-2006, 08:00 AM
Had the insurance company been informed in advance that the players were racking their own? I would imagine the percentages would have drastically changed as opposed to opponents racking.

Oops. Was that a slight oversight on behalf of the players association?

Fran

Profcuestroke
11-15-2006, 02:33 PM
Don't know about public reports, didn't see any. All I had was Trudeau's announcement at the player's meeting. He stated that the IPT had been sold. He raved about the new owner's wealth and business interests. He further announced the coming IPO. He added that he was under contract for 5 years. He concluded with an apparent footnote that there were still a few "i"s to be dotted and "t"s to be crossed but reiterated that it was a done deal.

Considering his investment the only real question I have is: Why would he want to sell at all?

Let's ask the questions:

1) Who among us even imagined something like the IPT?
2) Having the concept, who among us would have whatever it takes to try and make it a reality?
3) Assuming they had access to it, who among us would put up millions of our own money (not OPM) to make it happen?

Remember Tucker.

4) Having breathed life into it, who would abandon it (sell) and for what reason?
5) Deliver the coup de gras at the critical jucture?

Makes no sense to me. Almost as baffling is: What's stopping the new owner from halting the hemmoraging by covering the money and salvaging not only the tour but his own investment as well?

Equally baffling is: Where's the bold leadership, where's the movement to rescue OUR tour from these nefarious malfactors?

Far easier to wring our hands and rag on the dream maker for his misdeeds, real or imagined.

The old professor,
Profcuestroke

wayne crimi
11-15-2006, 04:41 PM
I haven't heard anyone say that Trudeau made any money off this tour. In fact, there seems to be total agreement that he probably lost a bundle so far.

I don't see the "sucker" here.

I think there's at least a reasonable chance that Trudeau went into this with honorable intentions, but miscalculated badly and put together a very poor business plan as a result.

The real problem is that once the business started to run into financial difficulties, there was a series of lies, half truths, stalling tactics etc... communicated to the players about future tournaments and getting paid. Perhaps the "real Trudeau" came out under financial pressure. From here, when you combine the lies, non-payment, and Trudeau's reputation, it's extremely difficult to believe anything he says. If he did go into this business with legitimate intentions, it's a shame his reputation and personality flaws may contribute to its demise.

DickLeonard
11-16-2006, 07:28 AM
071838 Joe Balsis told me his check for 10,000 didn't clear the bank for winning the Worlds Tournament in California. Arnie told him don't leave town without cashing the check but Joe went home with the check.

I guess he got his moneys worth chasing Willie Mosconi around the tables. That is a story worth repeating if you have the facts. Or was Mosconi chasing Arnie around the table.

Joe Balsis played Irving Crane a 600 point match for my opening event at the Albany Golden Cue. He crucified Irving and Irvs behavior turned ugly. Joe told Irv if he didn't straighten out he was going to take him outside. After that Irv became a perfect Gentleman.####

jjinfla
11-19-2006, 06:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wayne crimi:</font><hr> I haven't heard anyone say that Trudeau made any money off this tour. In fact, there seems to be total agreement that he probably lost a bundle so far.

I don't see the "sucker" here.

I think there's at least a reasonable chance that Trudeau went into this with honorable intentions, but miscalculated badly and put together a very poor business plan as a result.

The real problem is that once the business started to run into financial difficulties, there was a series of lies, half truths, stalling tactics etc... communicated to the players about future tournaments and getting paid. Perhaps the "real Trudeau" came out under financial pressure. From here, when you combine the lies, non-payment, and Trudeau's reputation, it's extremely difficult to believe anything he says. If he did go into this business with legitimate intentions, it's a shame his reputation and personality flaws may contribute to its demise. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with what you say. Everyone is so quick to point out that KT perpetrated a scam or a fraud. Yet no one can show how KT profited from the tour.

Looking at the the Vegas Tournament KT paid out more than the US Open paid out. In fact he paid out more than the US Open and the last 5 WPBA Tournaments paid out together. In fact you can add the 8 Florida Pro Tours to that total. And probably a bunch of Viking Tours and Peachaur Tours.

Not bad for just one tournament.

He didn't exactly stiff them completely on Reno. He did pay 1/9 of what is owed. Maybe the players will receive two more payments. That would be a $1,000,000 payout.

I'll bet if you would have asked the players a year ago if they would ever see a million dollar tournament they would have looked at you like you were crazy. Now they are complaining that a million dollars is not enough.

People are posting the crimes that KT has committed. 20 years ago. I wonder if they will also post the crimes that the players have committed?

It was fun while it lasted, now I think professional pool will just fade away.

MrLucky
11-20-2006, 05:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wayne crimi:</font><hr> I haven't heard anyone say that Trudeau made any money off this tour. In fact, there seems to be total agreement that he probably lost a bundle so far.

I don't see the "sucker" here.

I think there's at least a reasonable chance that Trudeau went into this with honorable intentions, but miscalculated badly and put together a very poor business plan as a result.

The real problem is that once the business started to run into financial difficulties, there was a series of lies, half truths, stalling tactics etc... communicated to the players about future tournaments and getting paid. Perhaps the "real Trudeau" came out under financial pressure. From here, when you combine the lies, non-payment, and Trudeau's reputation, it's extremely difficult to believe anything he says. If he did go into this business with legitimate intentions, it's a shame his reputation and personality flaws may contribute to its demise. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree with what you say. Everyone is so quick to point out that KT perpetrated a scam or a fraud. Yet no one can show how KT profited from the tour.


Looking at the the Vegas Tournament KT paid out more than the US Open paid out. In fact he paid out more than the US Open and the last 5 WPBA Tournaments paid out together. In fact you can add the 8 Florida Pro Tours to that total. And probably a bunch of Viking Tours and Peachaur Tours.

Not bad for just one tournament.

He didn't exactly stiff them completely on Reno. He did pay 1/9 of what is owed. Maybe the players will receive two more payments. That would be a $1,000,000 payout.

I'll bet if you would have asked the players a year ago if they would ever see a million dollar tournament they would have looked at you like you were crazy. Now they are complaining that a million dollars is not enough.

<hr /></blockquote> <font color="red">Well first off hi how have you been?

My question to you is this... Lets say you entered a tournament it advertised a $10 entry fee and payout of $1000 you took first place after a grueling hard fought set of matches! Now the promoter tells you he will not pay you today but mail you a check! then you are told the check was lost by Fed X ! then you are told that The bar owner is selling his bar to Mike Tyson and you have to wait for Mike to complete the sale!!! then you are told that you will only be paid 1/3 of your won and promised money about $300.00 now!
My question is would you then be so cavalier and happy to accept your $300 dollars and write it off as more than you would have hoped for a year ago so its OK????? </font color>

People are posting the crimes that KT has committed. 20 years ago. I wonder if they will also post the crimes that the players have committed?

<font color="red"> What does this have to do with KT and his reneging on his word!</font color>

It was fun while it lasted, now I think professional pool will just fade away. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

jjinfla
11-20-2006, 09:49 AM
I'm doing pretty good. Have more time to read and play pool now that I got myself banned from AZB. It reminds me of grammar school where we all tried to get the most demerits from the teacher. I just got tired of all that Politically correct crap. When someone is wrong I pointed it out and got accused of attacking them. I actually repeated what the person actually posted themselves. The people have no idea what a debate really consists of.

Anyway, to answer your question, no I don't think it is right, and no I would not like to be stiffed, but the people who are doing all the complaining are not the ones who were stiffed. It is the player's opinion that really matters.

You did hear the story of the snake and the frog didn't you?

Or buyer beware?

Or if you lie with crooks...

The players were walking on eggs from day one. They knew the risks involved, they knew KT's past, and were just hoping for the best. But they did have too many people giving them a whole lot of bad advice. As much criticism as the IPT and KT and his staff got I am really surprised that it lasted this long.

I actually hope, and think there is a pretty good chance, that the players will receive the three checks. That would be a million dollar payout. It is anybody's guess what will happen next.

But precedent had been set when Berhman couldn't pay the promised amount for the US Open. Of course that was due to people not being able to attend due to the bad weather. Of course to Berhman's credit he did make the announcement of lack of funds prior to the tournament.

Maybe KT ran the Reno tournament to get the players on tape and then sell the tapes to generate money to pay them. He does have DVD's for sale on his website and in Meullers catalog.

Rich R.
11-20-2006, 11:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> But precedent had been set when Berhman couldn't pay the promised amount for the US Open. Of course that was due to people not being able to attend due to the bad weather. Of course to Berhman's credit he did make the announcement of lack of funds prior to the tournament.<hr /></blockquote>
Jake, IIRC, the year that Barry had trouble with the pay outs was 2001, the year of 9/11. All the players were already at the Open and the tournament had started, when the planes hit the towers. After that, the airlines were shut down for a while and, in general, many people were just afraid to travel.

Barry could have closed up shop immediately, but, since the players were there, he decided to go on and do the best he could. Yes, he ran short of money, but because of the extenuating circumstances, I think he deserved a little credit for trying.

I believe the hurricane hit the Open in 2003. I'm not sure if Barry was able to pay the full amounts that year or not. I believe he may have paid the prizes in full, that year. Again, he had a good excuse, as the hurricane hit in the middle of the Open.

Thankfully, we have not had another 9/11 type disaster and a hurricane didn't hit one of the IPT tournaments. I don't think KT has the same good excuses that can be claimed by Barry Behrman.

jjinfla
11-20-2006, 03:06 PM
Hurricane in 2003? Has it been that long already? Seems like only yesterday. We had reservations at the motel and cancelled them, as did a lot of other people. That was the closest I ever came to going to the open.

No one can blame the promoter for circumstances beyond his control. I would imagine that Barry depends on the gate for some of the money that pays the players.

We don't really know what the circumstances were for KT not paying for Reno. I heard that attendance sucked. Players each had ten free passes but I doubt many were handed out. It would be interesting to know how many people used those free passes. I also heard that they were trying to sell admission tickets for $5.00 each and still couldn't get people in to fill the seats. Maybe Reno was just the wrong place to hold that tournament. Perhaps if he had cancelled that one and held a tournament in Chicago there would have been a better turnout.

Looking back he could have done a lot of things differently.

Jake

MrLucky
11-20-2006, 05:32 PM
This is why I love these forums ! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif for the most part, folks can come together and exchange info ! ....

sometimes ! they even change long held opinions or come to a better understanding of whats going on around them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Rich R.
11-21-2006, 03:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>We had reservations at the motel and cancelled them, as did a lot of other people. That was the closest I ever came to going to the open.<hr /></blockquote>
We had reservations. I called ahead to make sure the hotel would be open and we drove right into it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

You should have come. We had a great time. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif