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View Full Version : Rice says build up of China,concerns U.S.



Drop1
11-17-2006, 06:55 PM
Maybe we are concerned,but we can't win a war against China. They have the largest standing army in the world, and everything we have in terms of tecnology,and are seen,as the number 2 super power by Latin America,Africa,and many countries in Asia. Concern is something I feel when I don't know if I'm have a heart attack,or just gas. I wonder what it is for Rice.

Gayle in MD
11-18-2006, 08:27 AM
We were passing in cyberspace, lol. I just wrote you about this on another thread. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

FatsRedux
11-18-2006, 03:02 PM
We are in big, big trouble. China is building up her military at an astonishing rate, at the same time they have been cutting deals and entering into cooperative military agreements all over the globe. (They now control the Panama Canal.) But beyond that they are holding so much in US treasury notes that if they want to they could dump them and collapse our economy overnight.

Here's a good place to see how China's Navy (PLAN) is growing and how it currently compares to the USN. --
The Red Sea Dragon (http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/planbuildup.htm)

So here is China, a wonderful trading partner (so wonderful that our trade deficit with them is close to 200 BILLION dollars) http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2006

So now they're building up their military like gangbusters,..for what? Is it really something so strange that not even former Def Sec Rumsfeld, and now Condi Rice, can't understand it?

Congress should demand that the administration tell us "why they don't know? Perhaps they got their intel from the same "experts" that have already (incorrectly) predicted so much?

I'm glad there's concern, the problem is that it's fifteen years too freaking late.

Fats

Gayle in MD
11-18-2006, 03:27 PM
Absolutely...our greatest threat!

Gayle in Md.

nAz
11-19-2006, 12:46 AM
uh i have a solution.... lets just play pool and not think about China and all the worlds problems (our problems) we'll just pretend nothing is wrong and all will be well.

beside this is why we vote for effective leadership in the WH so we don't need to worry. BAAAA (http://www.adoptafarm.com/sounds/baasheep1.wav)

Gayle in MD
11-19-2006, 06:38 AM
Hey, what a great idea!!! Then, we can all just post cute little jokes, links to cute little websites, ignore all the critical issues of the world, resolve to be politically correct, and then we'll be accepted in the cute little pool clique, of legends in their own minds, and we'll all live happily ever after, why worry, why discuss, why debate, hey, what the hell, why think at all, thinking too much just might lead to writing something that somone else might not like, oooow, wouldn't want to do that, now would we. It would be terribly selfish, to put some apathetic American NPR regular through such a suffering ordeal as having to scroll past threads that they don't like to read!!! No, we should never be so pompus as to expect to post anything we wish, on a forum, set aside, for anything non pool related! We should all expect all others here to be sure they don't post anything at all, that anybody at all, doesn't want to have to scroll past! LMAO /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif After all, what do people think, anyway, that this is an open forum, or something???

Unbelievable, that adults, could be so childish, to actually endeavor to dictate what others here may or may not discuss.

Gayle in Md.....thinks some people never get past Junior High School mentality. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Qtec
11-19-2006, 07:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So now they're building up their military like gangbusters,..for what? <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe they are worried about the massive US military and the present US foriegn policy?
The US spends at least 10x more on 'defence' than the Chinese and it has a billion less people.

Is the US the only country that has the right to protect itself?

Q

Drop1
11-19-2006, 11:41 AM
Qtip take a pill. The thing that has US shorts tied in a knot,and squeezing our brains,is no matter how much we spend,or even if we bring back the Draft,we no longer are the leader of the world. Why would the Netherlands have an army? I don't know that it does. Did we have to destroy Iraq,to save it? Anyway you are all wound up,so I will give you my non political thought for the day,did you know Jesus was not portrayed on the cross for the first eight hundred years of Christianity,and instead,a lamb was crucified?

Drop1
11-19-2006, 11:48 AM
Gale just thinking of you gets me hot. I think last night I had two wet dreams,and you were on top. Bye the way do you know the words to "Good Ship Lolly Pop? If this is too political,I can cut back on the music /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gifXoXoXo

cushioncrawler
11-19-2006, 06:10 PM
The population of china is going to halve each generation when the 1-child policy kicks in, ie in about 70years. So, no need to worry -- china will have 1000,000000 then 500,000000 then 250,000000 then 125,000000 then 64,000000 then only 32,000000 (in about 2175AD) -- by which time USA will be 1000,000000 (all muslim). madMac.

Drop1
11-19-2006, 06:24 PM
You forget India at that time will dominate the world,and there will be no Chinese except in Australia,where the water is /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in MD
11-19-2006, 06:35 PM
Verse...

I've thrown away my toys,
E-ven my drum and trains,
I wan-na make some noise
With real live aer-o-planes.
some day I'm going to fly,
I'll be a pi-lot too
and when I do How would you --------
like to be my crew?


On the good ship Lol-Li-Pop
It's a sweet trip to a Can-dy shop
Where bon-bons play -----------
on the sun-ny beach of pep-per-mint - bay.---------

Lem-on-ade stands ev-'ry where
Crack-er-jack band fill the air
And there you are -------
hap-py land-ing on a choc-o-late bar.

See the sugar bowl do a toot-si- roll
with the big bad dev-ils' food cake.----------
If you eat too much ooh! ooh! -----
You'll a-wake with a "tum-my ache.

ON THE GOOD SHIP LOL-LI-POP
it's a night trip ---- in-to bed you hop
and dream a-way
ON THE GOOD SHIP LOL-LI-POP!

circa 1934

words and music by Sidney Clare and Richard A. Whiting


My very first solo stage performance.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

19?????

/ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Gayle in Md.

Drop1
11-19-2006, 07:19 PM
Thank You for being you xoxoxo /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
11-19-2006, 07:24 PM
Awe, don't mention it sweetie... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif xoxoxo

cushioncrawler
11-19-2006, 11:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> You forget India at that time will dominate the world,and there will be no Chinese except in Australia,where the water is /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Hmmmm -- perhaps we need Milton Friedman back -- what would Milton do?? -- Milton reckoned that every problem in the world has an economic solution (except for economic problems) -- Hmmmmm -- ok, we just let things run their course -- soon the chinese &amp; indians will have 500,000000 cadillacs on their roads, and the odds will be even. madMac.

FatsRedux
11-20-2006, 01:07 AM
China is not cozying up to the idea of India as a rival.
Hindustan Times (http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1845372,001302560000.htm)
Arrogant China - Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/India/Autocratic_China_becoming_arrogant/articleshow/msid-453194,curpg-1.cms)

Fats

DickLeonard
11-20-2006, 07:21 AM
Drop1 why should we worry we spend 20x what China spends on their Defense.####

Drop1
11-20-2006, 09:17 AM
Cadillacs are not the car of choice,and Chinese consider non Chinese as not part of the inner circle. Anyway,it is academic,where we are concerned,as we will be long gone,line dancing with Jesus. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Drop1
11-20-2006, 09:26 AM
Uh,ask me again after the War.We don't really know how much they spend /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
11-20-2006, 10:14 AM
Whatever they're spending, they're financing it partly through the interest they collect from the debt we owe them, and by taking ill advantage of unchecked, lopsided, decietful, unfair trade practices.

Free Trade? Definition-"America, bend over and grab your ankles."

We're financing the future radical dictators of tomorrow's world powers through today's so called free trade, our own international debt, and our energy reliance on future threatening enemies.

From independence, and self sufficiency, comes strength, and autonomy. There's a huge difference between protectionism and isolationism, and self reliance, and becoming dependent on those who would destroy us, for what we must have in order to defend ourselves, is crazy. If we had to suddenly gear up for a massive war, where would we get quality steel, to build enough tanks, planes, etc.? We can't keep paying bribes to the rest of the world, in order to maintain our own democratic, way of life, and peace in our nation, IMO. Free Trade, isn't free trade, unless it is fair free trade.

Gayle in Md.

Drop1
11-20-2006, 10:47 AM
Our birth rate is not high enough to grow workers to medicate,and support the elderly. If it were high enough,we would not have enough jobs. Asia is growing around fifteen percent a year,and we are growing around 3.5% a year. Globalization,free trade,and illegal immigrants,have gutted the belly of America. We are going straight into the third world. All our enemies have to do is wait. Europe is no better off.

FatsRedux
11-20-2006, 12:43 PM
If Mexico was greatly encouraged to developed their own manufacturing infrastructure for their own populace and were able to get a grip on their corrupt, out-of-control, national police, then maybe more Mexicans would choose to stay there rather than entering the US illegally.

The real issue is security. Who do we want as allies in future miitary and economic wars? Our neighbors to the south? Or do we continue to cut deals with the communist monolith that is China?

If we have to have inexpensive goods I'd rather they were manufactured in Mexico than China.

Fats

Drop1
11-20-2006, 09:37 PM
Mr.Fat Fella, I would say keep cutting deals with China. Mexico is a drug driven society,involving every politician in the country,or that politicians family. Drug lords,are protected,by the Federal Police. Mexico,is in the process of opening the doors to China,the first move is Chinese money to develop the Baja coast for tourism, the second stage will be shoe factories in Leon Guanajato under Chinese control. Mexico is now importing workers from Honduras,and Guatamala. If we are to deal with Mexico,it will be with the drug cartels,that control the government,and the military.

Gayle in MD
11-20-2006, 11:45 PM
WOW, imagine, what the drug lords in Afghanistan must think about us. Here we are tryng to end their only available income by destroying the poppy fields, while at the same time, Americans are buying truckloads of their recreational drugs from Mexico! So, why is Mexico importing labor, while they're practically pushing their own workers across our border? Don't tell me they get cheaper labor from Honduras and Guatamala? Oh please, no, ... changed my mind, don't tell me.

I got a question for you, is there any connection between slave labor, and the downfall of Unions? Ah, don't answer that, changed my mind again. Ah, let me ask you this....how long does it take to learn spanish? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Drop1
11-21-2006, 11:03 AM
I have always said,the best way to learn any language is between the sheets, /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif baring that option,two years,for light conversation,and four years for political conversation,and six years for intelligent political conversation.Some people never learn spanish. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gayle in MD
11-21-2006, 12:35 PM
BWA HA HA HA...by that standard, we have some english speaking posters on here who still can't speak (write) english!!!

Love,
Gayle

llotter
11-22-2006, 09:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
From independence, and self sufficiency, comes strength, and autonomy. <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle, I couldn’t agree with you more, but…

You know, it’s almost laughable how all the lefties here are decrying the problems of ‘free trade’ with the Chicoms when they are the ones that have contributed so heavily to our non-competitive economy through their highly socialist ideas. Even now, the new Democratic majorities are talking about raising the minimum wage, increasing the cost of the prescription drug program, more subsidies for education and on and on and on. And, I have little doubt that the forthcoming amnesty program with further degrade our competitive position. The natural advantage that America once had over foreign competition was FREEDOM and if there is any hope of actually winning the competition again, like we once did so well, we should stop adding more burdens to our economic life and start lightening them. Lowering federal taxes to 5 or 6 percent and freeing the citizens to solve their own problems, eliminating all transfer/entitlement, education, agriculture and other misc. subsidies and excessive regulation, will guarantee that we win to global economic contest because freedom works. Failing this obvious solution, we are going to lose because we will forever be mired in our ever worsening PC existence.

Drop1
11-22-2006, 11:15 AM
Yeah! Who ever thought education would pay off. Let the government borrow the money it needs,we the people are not responsible for the debt,the government is. "Down with the homeless" Have a nice Thanks...

Gayle in MD
11-22-2006, 01:12 PM
Well, I honestly need to study more about Economics, but watching these huge subsidies going out to oil, and watching the prices of Prescription Drugs, climb way out of sight, and on both those, we're definately being gouged, all of us, anyway, I don't want to live in a country where people can't possibly afford to send their kids who really want an education, not get some help somehow, whether it's through tax breaks, or subsidies, I'd rather see it go there, than into the greedy hands of wealthy CEO's, wouldn't you? Investments in education of our youth, good for society. Making sure our seniors don't have to eat dog food to get by, that's important to me. I'm no expert on Economics, but I can sure see that Bush's Economics, favor the rich. That makes me mad.

I've never minded paying taxes, to live in the greatest country in the world, but, I think, that unless our Representatives stop squandering money, through incompetence, and shady deals with the rich, and stop this illegal occupation of cheap labor, and curb the massive out-sourcing of our jobs, then we're all going to be in trouble.

Many don't agree with me, but my take on it is that the middle class, and upper and lower middle class, are being robbed blind by the flithy rich, with the help of Bush.

Lou Dobbs's books, "The Outsourcing Of America" and "The War On The Middle Class" each have a lot of very good information on this, and also, the book, by David Kay Johnston, "Perfectly Legal" which exposes our present tax structure for what it really is, a total scam!!! It's even worse than Reaganomics. Look where we ended up after eight years of Reagan's tax cuts. What good are they, if we end up burried in debt?

Just my 2 cents...for what it's worth...

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
11-22-2006, 07:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You know, it’s almost laughable how all the lefties here are decrying the problems of ‘free trade’ with the Chicoms when they are the ones that have contributed so heavily to our non-competitive economy through their highly socialist ideas <hr /></blockquote>

You give the impression that its all the fault of the working class. Am I wrong?
[ QUOTE ]
And, I have little doubt that the forthcoming amnesty program with further degrade our competitive position. <hr /></blockquote>
You mean farmers can't pay slave wages anymore? If you had REAL free trade, America's cotton industry will disappear overnight. Countries like Brazil can produce cotton FAR cheaper than the USA but US farmers got 4 billion in subsidies last year! Brazil took the US to court and won their case against unfair competition.
You can't expect people to work for 3rd world wages in America or any westen country. Our basic living expences are way higher than China or India.
Didn't GW slap on huges stell tariffs when he got elected? Free trade?

Qtec

Drop1
11-22-2006, 07:39 PM
Qtec,what is the day of Thanks in the Netherlands? eg8r get of the computer,and go change a diaper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Qtec
11-22-2006, 07:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Qtec,what is the day of Thanks in the Netherlands? <font color="blue"> I've no idea! Normally I would consult my expert on Dutch holidays but she's asleep! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I will get back to you on that one. </font color> eg8r get of the computer,and go change a diaper. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
That sounds like something his wife would say. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r is not a bad guy. Really. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif We have arguments but we never get personal. I must admit, he does make me laugh sometimes. He has been on this forum for centuries and has never answered a question! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Its true!


Have a good one people. Enjoy your holiday.

Q..............turkey........mmmmmmmmmmmmm........ . /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif No turkey for me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Gayle in MD
11-24-2006, 07:08 AM
About Eg8r, If you post a proven fact, such as, Rice, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, all lied us into a war, then lied about the circumstances on the ground, even after years of accumulated factual testimony, by many many people, and world-wide historical acceptance, he calls anyone who states a truth, he doesn't like, a liar. He never posts a damn thing to support his misguided denials, but demands proof from everyone else!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Another often used tactic of those who don't want to admit the truth, is attack any and all investigations, by any and all authors, conveniently dismissed as having a book to sell, /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif by that standard, why not remain completely illiterate? Why read anything at all, written by anyone at all. People sell bibles, too... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif People sell encyclopedias, /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif How bout every single historical document? Why believe any of it?

Ah, to be one of the educated devotees of Fox, Limbaugh and Coulter /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif No need to study anything at all, ever, just tune in and slurp up the talking points! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

G.

cushioncrawler
11-24-2006, 04:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote llotter:</font><hr> ... You know, it’s almost laughable how all the lefties here are decrying the problems of ‘free trade’ with the Chicoms when they are the ones that have contributed so heavily to our non-competitive economy through their highly socialist ideas. Even now, the new Democratic majorities are talking about raising the minimum wage, increasing the cost of the prescription drug program, more subsidies for education and on and on and on. And, I have little doubt that the forthcoming amnesty program with further degrade our competitive position. The natural advantage that America once had over foreign competition was FREEDOM and if there is any hope of actually winning the competition again, like we once did so well, we should stop adding more burdens to our economic life and start lightening them. Lowering federal taxes to 5 or 6 percent and freeing the citizens to solve their own problems, eliminating all transfer/entitlement, education, agriculture and other misc. subsidies and excessive regulation, will guarantee that we win to global economic contest because freedom works. Failing this obvious solution, we are going to lose because we will forever be mired in our ever worsening PC existence... <hr /></blockquote>
Allmost all economists know stuff-all -- however, there is one little "law" that makes sense, and it happens to describe international trade -- it is the law of "comparative advantage" -- but u will never ever hear an economist or anyone else mentioning it -- funny thing that, the one good thing to come out of economics theory and yet it is ignored by all. Anyhow, if u google it, u will have hours of very enjoyable reading.

I neednt say any more, koz the "errors" in your above comments will all surface if u google "comparative advantage" (or whatever name they like to use nowadays). But i will say a few words (sorry if i sound too professorial and upmyself here).

"free trade" -- The chineze (unlike the USA) keep their dollar artificially low -- hence u are free to looz, u karnt compete with that (or it is difficult).

"socialist ideas" and "the minimum wage" -- Do not affect comparative advantage.

"subsidies for education" -- Nyet -- do not affect comparative advantage -- but other sorts of direct or indirect subsidys (and tax breaks) of course would (do).

"natural advantage" -- Duznt exist -- unless u have something that is in very short supply.

"freedom" -- Nuh -- duznt affect comparative advantage.

"lowering taxes" and "removing subsidies" and "freeing citizens" and "eliminating excessive regulation" -- Nope.

"will guarantee that we win" and "this obvious solution" and "freedom works" -- Economists wouldnt agree with any of this -- it all sounds very libertarian to me. I wonder what Milton Friedman thort about this stuff.

"works" -- It all hinges on the word "works" -- "works" iz different things to different people, ie to a greenie, to a socialist, to a CEO, to an economist. In the end, what is good (works) for the USA must be bad (unworks) for everyone else (but it neednt -- but that is another story).

"ever worsening existance" -- Hmmmmm -- how is "winning the economic war" going to change things to an "ever bettering existance" ????. Will it unworsen pollution, unworsen overpopulation, unworsen unemployment etc etc. madMac

Qtec
11-24-2006, 09:20 PM
Free trade?

[ QUOTE ]
Summary

Cotton has become a symbol of the inequities of global agricultural trade. The case of cotton clearly demonstrates how rich-country agriculture subsidies cause harmful impacts on developing country farmers. Subsidies skew production levels and value, undermining the income of cotton farmers in developing countries. Some of the poorest countries in the world are cotton producers, and they stand to gain significantly from reforming trade and agriculture policies. Yet these countries face a depressed cotton market caused, in part, by rich-country subsidies.

Reform of US cotton subsidies is urgently needed to address the distortions in cotton trade that undermine the value of cotton to developing countries. Every season, poor cotton farmers face reduced incomes. Each year, developing countries which export cotton suffer declining balance of payments due to loss of export revenues. The central issue is US cotton subsidies, and the reforms needed are quite clear. There is no doubt about the unfairness of US trade cotton practices, as the WTO panel has proved. The issue now is how these conclusions are going to be implemented. The USA must agree to eliminate trade-distorting subsidies at the WTO and implement the necessary reforms to its farm programs.

In crop year 2002, the US government provided $3.4 billion in total subsidies to the cotton sector. To put this figure into perspective, it is nearly twice the total US foreign aid given to sub-Saharan Africa. It is also more than the GDP of Benin, Burkina Faso, or Chad, the main cotton-producing countries in the region.

<hr /></blockquote>


http://www.oxfam.org.uk/what_we_do/issues/trade/bp69_cotton.htm

If you want free trade , you have to be prepared to take the consequences. ie no more US cotton industry. It will work for the good in some sections of trade but in others it means disaster.
The UK used to have a great ship building industry and a huge coal industry. Both are almost gone completely because they couldn't compete with 3rd world wages.!



Q

cushioncrawler
11-26-2006, 02:40 PM
This cotton stuff reminds me of a funny story -- i think that i read this in samuelson's economics book in about 1970. In the depression in about 1930 the (stupid) secretary for usa agriculture ordered that the (good) cotton crop be ploughed-in, koz of low demand, even tho most (small-time) cotton farmers did not have a good shirt on their back -- the mules, wouldnt pull the ploughs, they knew that u shoodnt step on or harm the crop.

The moral is -- even mules know better than economists. madMac.