PDA

View Full Version : Help with new table choice



sker66
11-22-2006, 07:24 PM
Hi,

This forum has helped in my research for a new table. I'm getting close, and thought I'd ask what everyone thinks about a few of the models I'm looking at. This will be my first (and last) table purchase, so I want to get it right. It will be a family table...typical use...I have a 14 year old son, 12 yr old daughter. I'm not an accomplished player, but enjoy the game and have won a few beers in bars over the years! I've learned a lot in my research and will definitely be looking for a cloth upgrade, better balls, etc. For the table itself, I need an 8 footer for the space. I'm leaning toward a mahogany finish, either on maple or cherry wood. I've narrowed it down to either a Brunswick or Olhausen, the all-wood modles in the $2,500 to $3,200 range. My question is: I can get a new Olhausen Innsbruck, my top choice looks-wise (even though I haven't actually seen it in person!), for $2,595 from a reputable dealer (40 yrs. + in the business, only pool tables). This includes a decent set of accessories, delivery, set up by a good installer. I would spend another $50 to upgrade to Super Pro balls, and $75 to upgrade to Simonis 860 cloth. Is this a good buy? Other contenders include some Brunswicks at their sale prices (Bradford, Greenbrier, Avalon, Camden II), but I'd be looking at $2,800 to $3,200 (with some comparable upgrades to the balls...the Brunswick Centennial cloth compares with the Simonis, right?).

wannabeplayer
11-23-2006, 08:37 AM
wow....that is a great buy on that innsbrook table. and only $75 to go to simonis...that is a steal. i paid $180 to go to simonis and about the price for an augusta pool table which is nowhere near as carved as the one you are looking at.....that is a great buy.....where are you getting this from? just curious.

sker66
11-23-2006, 05:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wannabeplayer:</font><hr> wow....that is a great buy on that innsbrook table. and only $75 to go to simonis...that is a steal. i paid $180 to go to simonis and about the price for an augusta pool table which is nowhere near as carved as the one you are looking at.....that is a great buy.....where are you getting this from? just curious. <hr /></blockquote>

It's a local dealer that has been in business 40+ years. Basically, he claims to sell at near wholesale prices, and thus won't "dicker" on the price at all. All the Olhausen tables are attractivly priced at this dealer, from what I can tell. I guess my question is, do I go for it, or one of the Brunswick's in a similar price category? I can get an Amherst with upgraded cloth, buy a cue rack or their upgraded centenniel accessory package and get a C-2 foosball table for free. Now, all that, for around $2,550. Or I can get the Innsbruck for around that price, then upgrade the balls/cloth for about $2,630. Which is the better deal? Would I be yearning for the Innsbruck after playing the Amherst? I really want the wider rails...don't know if the Amherst has the wide rails or not. It's almost as if I'd have to bump up to the solid-wood Brunswick's to get to a similar quality table, and even at their sale prices, it'd be around $3,000. Plus the $299 cue rack or accessory upgrade at which point I'd get the foosball table. So, $3,300 at least. Seems like I'd be better off going with the Olhausen deal on the Innsbruk, then, find a deal on a foosball table. What do you guys think?


Thanks,
Rod

mantis
11-23-2006, 10:36 PM
I thin kthose upgrades are well priced. I have seen the simonis for as much as $300 more. Either of those tables will be nice, so I would just go with the design you like the best. Playability really should not be any different. I have the bradford in all maple and love it. Good luck.

Snapshot9
11-24-2006, 08:32 AM
I like the Olhausen table, and they play well. I don't think I would go with Simonis 860 at home. First off, I think it is TOO FAST, and when you or your kids go out to play somewhere else, mostly likely, you will not be playing on Simonis 860 cloth.
Go here: Centennial Cloth (http://forums.azbilliards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6) and read about Centennial Cloth. I think, especially with kids, that this would be the better cloth to have.

Personally, I would go with Cherry wood, but the mahogany finish kind of flattens out the beauty of cherry wood. A couple of weeks ago, I got to see my cousin's $500,000 RV, and it had Cherry wood throughout, and it was gorgeous. I would go with a lighter finish that would allow the beauty of the wood to come through more.

I like Olhausen's Harly Davidson table, and for a comtemprary look, I love the wood beauty of the Sahara (Walnut finish on Oak).

Go here: Olhausen &amp; Brunswick Table models (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/newreply.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=239032&amp;page=0&amp;v iew=collapsed&amp;what=showflat&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1) to see pictures of the tables.

jjinfla
11-24-2006, 10:32 AM
We now have Connelly tables here and I really like them. Simonis 860. That seems to be the cloth of choice around here. It really is not all that fast. Wears well too.

I have played on a lot of diffent tables around here and actually they are all good, just a matter of personal preference.

Do you want drop pockets or ball returns? Diamond makes a nice ball return table.

Talk to your distributor and ask him to who he sold the table you are interested in and if he could contact him so that you can go there and try out the table. Or if he sold them to a bar or pool hall go there and play on them.

I would pay the most I could afford and get what I want and like. You will most likely keep the table for a dozen years and then if you want to upgrade to something else you can sell this table and probably get most of your money back.

Is it the home version or commercial version? How thick is the slate? Have the distributor explain to you the differences in the various models.

Jake

Fran Crimi
11-24-2006, 10:49 AM
Olhausen and Brunswick are both great names. Stick with the known names. I know someone who bought a piece of furniture pool table on the internet, not a known brand. The furniture was nice looking enough, but after a few months, the table kept going out of level. He kept having to call a mechanic to level the table. It was beyond just the regular things that happen with the table settling into the floor. Then it got really bad, where the slate started to pop up. Turns out that the table rails were sagging under the weight of the slate due to faulty construction and inferior wood underneath.

Now he's going to have to fight with the manufacturer to return the table for a refund. It may even go to court.

Fran

sker66
11-24-2006, 05:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Olhausen and Brunswick are both great names. Stick with the known names. I know someone who bought a piece of furniture pool table on the internet, not a known brand. The furniture was nice looking enough, but after a few months, the table kept going out of level. He kept having to call a mechanic to level the table. It was beyond just the regular things that happen with the table settling into the floor. Then it got really bad, where the slate started to pop up. Turns out that the table rails were sagging under the weight of the slate due to faulty construction and inferior wood underneath.

Now he's going to have to fight with the manufacturer to return the table for a refund. It may even go to court.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the advice. I've come across some of the "off-brands' in my shopping. Right now I'm down to either Brunswick or Olhausen, and I can get the Olhausens quite a bit cheaper when it comes to two comparable tables from those two. So I'm leaning towards the Olhausen...probably the Innsbruk, Santa Ana, or maybe even the Augusta if I want to save a few bucks. However, I recently came across a 5 yr old used Santa Ana model from Beach manufacturing that I can get for $500. It's in excellent shape, but I don't know what it has for rubber or cloth, and whether or not it is all-wood or not. Does anyone know anything about Beach or this particular table? Does it rank among those to stay away from?

Thanks,

Rod

BigRigTom
11-29-2006, 10:00 AM
I started reading this thread in expectation of learning something new about table selection. By the time I finished my head was spinning.
Rod....!@#$
You sound a lot like a friend of mine who hates making a decision untill he has ALL the facts. Trouble is he NEVER gets ALL the facts. As he continues to research and digs deeper into a subject he uncovers alligations and suppositions that cast doubt on his previously KNOWN FACTS and after a little while he is going round and round trying to resolve discrepancies in his information but NEVER does come to a conclusion. It drives me NUTS and I believe it does him too.

My advise is put your priorities in order and based on that order... buy yourself a table. If as you say you are only a recreational player then you will NOT know the difference in an Olhousen, a Brunswick or a Diamond. They are all GREAT tables. Get the cloth that is nice looking with that table Simonis and Centenial are both great choices. If you can pay $3200 and talking about high quality upgrades....why are you looking at a bargain basement $500 used table???@@#$@$
Make a decision and get on with it. Life is too short. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

JohnnyP
11-29-2006, 04:34 PM
Tom: Great advice, but I'm guilty as well, including the internet searches for pros and cons (arg).

My wife says guys are the worst when it comes to this. She sees something in a catalog, decides if it's a good value, then orders it up.

FatsRedux
11-30-2006, 12:28 PM
FWIW, if I were in the market for a table and I came across that Beach "Santa Ana" for $500 I'd be all over it in a skinny heartbeat. Don't forget to factor in the cost of having the table moved, set up, and new Simonis 860 installed.

Fats

slim
11-30-2006, 01:06 PM
What caught my eye, two young kids, I think this aspect should be a considerable concern (I had 2 also + a table). With all your excitement, they too will be part of this experience and that aspect maybe way more than you want, realize or can even imagine.

What type of family and interaction you have with your schools, kids, and other families in the neighborhood can create a very special situation, and it may be a period of time in you life too not get the BEST cloth but instead get one that won't get you into a confrontation with the kids.

One of the most interesting things in our area, a very well off family, good people, all the kids would hang out there and play pool in groups and plan their night activities, usually on the weekends. You will be better in touch with whats going on in their lives and this aspect alone may be more important than your personal needs at this time.

This home went throuh allot of potato chips and sodas, but the rewards of hanging out sometimes with them, even though your in the other room are for life. Hope this helps, remember when you were their age?

jayzoll
11-30-2006, 05:34 PM
I have an 9' Olhausen Monteray and really like it. I don't know if its just my table, or the mechanic that installed it, but my pockets are pretty tight. They are less than 4.5 inches. I like this because I learned to hit the center of the pocket when shooting with considerable speed. After shooting on my table, most all tables we play on in League have considerable larger pockets we like to call 'buckets' And my friends let me hear it when I miss easy shots on these tables. Kids may lose interest quicker due to not pocketing balls. I do believe my ability to pocket balls has improved greatly from shooting on a table with tight pockets. Just something to consider. Again, I really enjoy playing on my table. If you want to know if the table you are about to buy has pockets like mine, go to the dealer and try this in one of the corner pockets. Get two balls and see if they will fit side by side into the pocket. If they stop in the back of the pocket and won't fall, it will have pockets like mine. Once the cloth starts to wear over time, you will have a lot more balls hang up (or rattle) right in front of the pocket.

I almost forgot. I had green simonis on for 2 yrs before I changed it and I bet it would have lasted at least another year. I use the table at least 3 days a week for 2-4 hrs. Clean it once a week, keep it covered when not in use and it will last a few years. Only reason I changed it was because I had the extra money and wanted to do it myself. In my opinion, this is the perfect speed for cloth.

You will definately be pleased with whatever table you buy so get going.

scaramouche
12-02-2006, 06:18 AM
The best European table is Gabriel.

The best American table is Diamond.

Both use Artemis cushions made in Germany.

If the cushions deteriorate so will your playing pleasure.

And replacing them frequently makes the reasonably priced table not so reasonable.

Gayle in MD
12-02-2006, 06:57 AM
I own a Diamond, tournament (9ft) table, with pro cut pockets. They sell all styles, pro, furniture style, bar, all sizes. I highly recommend Diamond. They are the only table manufacturer in this country which produces their own product, start to finish, their tables are completely built in their factory. They are nice people to deal with, and stand by their product. You won't find a table anywhere, any nicer than a Diamond.

Gayle in Md.

sker66
12-06-2006, 02:12 PM
Sorry if I made your head spin!

I am getting closer to a decision. I'm definitely going with an Olhausen, probably the Montrachet with Innsbruck legs, Seville aprons, leather pockets (don't know what color yet...brown of some sort probably). A camel color cloth, probably Simonis 860 (although my dealer disagrees with me on the cloth...says what he puts on is perfectly good, but the upgrade to the 860 is only $70, so I think I might force him to do it). The thing I'm hung up on now is the wood/finish selection. I've only seen a few Olhausen tables, and haven't even seen wood samples of some of the various combinations.

I don't want:
-Oak wood. Too much grain for my tastes
-a walnut or "heritage" color finish, or a finish too dark, like the look of traditional cherry on maple
-a finish that is too light, like natural or american maple

I would like:
-A wood with more grain than maple, not as much as Oak. Cherry, maybe? But I know what the Cherry upgrade cost is, and I don't know if I want to pay. Might just settle for maple as long as the stain color/tone is what I want
-A stain color/tone that leans toward the reddish hue as opposed to brown. Rich looking, but not too dark. I've seen the Sienna on Oak, and what I'm after are the lighter areas of that finish. How would Sienna look on maple? Does anyone have any pictures? Or what about the Salsa finish on maple? From the brochure it looks like it has the correct color for me. Has anyone seen it? Is it a "distressed" look?

I've also considered Jatoba rails, figuring they would add some grain to an area that everyone sees a lot, and I would pay what they cost if they looked nice (very nice looking grain), but then I'd be faced with another choice of finish: use the same on the Jatoba rails as is used on the rest of the table, or a different one?

Decisions, decisions!

Thanks to all who replied!

Rod

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> I started reading this thread in expectation of learning something new about table selection. By the time I finished my head was spinning.
Rod....!@#$
You sound a lot like a friend of mine who hates making a decision untill he has ALL the facts. Trouble is he NEVER gets ALL the facts. As he continues to research and digs deeper into a subject he uncovers alligations and suppositions that cast doubt on his previously KNOWN FACTS and after a little while he is going round and round trying to resolve discrepancies in his information but NEVER does come to a conclusion. It drives me NUTS and I believe it does him too.

My advise is put your priorities in order and based on that order... buy yourself a table. If as you say you are only a recreational player then you will NOT know the difference in an Olhousen, a Brunswick or a Diamond. They are all GREAT tables. Get the cloth that is nice looking with that table Simonis and Centenial are both great choices. If you can pay $3200 and talking about high quality upgrades....why are you looking at a bargain basement $500 used table???@@#$@$
Make a decision and get on with it. Life is too short. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>