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Paladin8400
11-22-2006, 08:48 PM
In 8 ball, if it comes down to just the 8 ball and the cue ball, is someone allowed to intentionally NOT go for the 8 ball for the sole purpose of preventing the other player from having a good shot? (they put the cue ball in a terrible position to shoot at the 8 ball)

If so, it would create a boring ass game where the result is basically determined by who decides to give up and take the (bad) shot attempt. It would be one big stale mate. I'm debating this with my brother and I didn't find a specific rule about it, aside from realizing that it would make it boring as hell.

1hit1der
11-22-2006, 11:57 PM
When you say "NOT go for the 8 ball", I understand it as not hitting the 8 ball, which would be a foul and ball in hand for the opponent, who could then set up the easiest shot possible.

If you're referring to actually hitting the 8 ball, but not trying to pocket it, it is legal so long as either the 8 ball or cue ball hits a rail after the cue ball contacts the 8 ball. If both players are great safety players in this sense, there is a stalemate rule although I'm not sure if this is the situation where it would be applied. You can read the rules at www.bca-pool.com/play/ (http://www.bca-pool.com/play/)

PoolSharkAllen
11-23-2006, 02:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1hit1der:</font><hr> When you say "NOT go for the 8 ball", I understand it as not hitting the 8 ball, which would be a foul and ball in hand for the opponent, who could then set up the easiest shot possible.

If you're referring to actually hitting the 8 ball, but not trying to pocket it, it is legal so long as either the 8 ball or cue ball hits a rail after the cue ball contacts the 8 ball. If both players are great safety players in this sense, there is a stalemate rule although I'm not sure if this is the situation where it would be applied. You can read the rules at www.bca-pool.com/play/ (http://www.bca-pool.com/play/) <hr /></blockquote>
According to the 2006 BCA (World Standardized Rules) on 8-ball:

STALEMATED GAME
If, after 3 consecutive turns at the table by each player (6 turns total), the referee judges that attempting to pocket or move an object ball will result in loss of game, the balls will be re-racked with the original breaker of the stalemated game breaking again. The stalemate rule may be applied regard-less of the number of balls on the table. Please Note: Three consecutive fouls by one player in 8-ball is not a loss of game.

PoolSharkAllen
11-23-2006, 02:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paladin8400:</font><hr> In 8 ball, if it comes down to just the 8 ball and the cue ball, is someone allowed to intentionally NOT go for the 8 ball for the sole purpose of preventing the other player from having a good shot? (they put the cue ball in a terrible position to shoot at the 8 ball)

If so, it would create a boring ass game where the result is basically determined by who decides to give up and take the (bad) shot attempt. It would be one big stale mate. I'm debating this with my brother and I didn't find a specific rule about it, aside from realizing that it would make it boring as hell. <hr /></blockquote>If the 8 and the cue ball are the only two balls left, if a player shoots at the 8 and does not make a legal hit (either the cue ball or the 8 must hit a rail), then that is considered to be a foul. The other player now gets the cue ball in-hand anywhere on the table.

Billy_Bob
11-23-2006, 09:48 AM
The object of the game is to win and this includes leaving your opponent with a difficult shot whenever possible (with a legal hit). Get an official rule book here...
https://www.bcastore.com/product_info.php?products_id=118

Cornerman
11-24-2006, 08:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Paladin8400:</font><hr> In 8 ball, if it comes down to just the 8 ball and the cue ball, is someone allowed to intentionally NOT go for the 8 ball for the sole purpose of preventing the other player from having a good shot? <hr /></blockquote>I think we first need to understand that you know what ball-in-hand fouls are.

Fred

Sid_Vicious
11-24-2006, 11:12 AM
"The object of the game is to win and this includes leaving your opponent with a difficult shot"

In any pool game with established rules(BCA), you have no limitations to rolling the other guy stiff, AS LONG as you make a legal hit. Some of the most impressive games I've seen have been done with some really impressive defensive sequences. With only having the 8 left on the table, it is fair game for both players to "work" the table for the ending mistake of the other guy. I must add though that it ain't as easy as you might think to keep yourself away from giving up a ball in hand, or especially a sell-out, when you only have the 8 left. If you can manage the control and then have the other guy leave that sell-out for you, then I give three taps to you. sid

bsmutz
11-24-2006, 11:51 AM
In addition to what has already been posted, I don't look at this type of play as boring. It can be just as tough to leave your opponent with no shot with only the 8-ball on the table as it is to make a 90 degree cut shot from a table length away. To me, once you attain a certain level of play, finding ways to leave your opponent tough are just as exciting as a runout. Quite often the game will come down to who makes the first mistake in this kind of mental &amp; physical battle when there are a bunch of clustered balls or if the 8-ball is tangled up with the last ball on the table. I do remember some boredom setting in when I was a duffer playing a duffer and neither one of was capable of making the last ball. Reminds me of the last time I played snooker on a tight pocketed 12 footer, lol. I look forward now to trying to outwit/outplay my opponent when the layout of the table is challenging for either to run out.

Fran Crimi
11-24-2006, 01:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If so, it would create a boring ass game <hr /></blockquote>

Here's how it works: Everyone here, at one time in their pool playing lives, thought that playing safeties makes pool a boring ass game.

Many people don't even remember thinking that way because it was so early on in their pool playing days, right back to when when they were beginners.

It's evident you are in very early stages of learning the game. You will either keep playing and learn to appreciate the importance of safety play, or you won't. If you don't, it's because you were never really interested in pool in the first place.

Now keep in mind that eveything can be abused, including safety play. It becomes unsportsmanlike when players do it just for the heck of it over and over and over, not because it helps advance them in their game but just to antagonize their opponent. In time, hopefully, you will come to appreciate the difference.

Fran

Sid_Vicious
11-24-2006, 01:52 PM
" It becomes unsportsmanlike when players do it just for the heck of it over and over and over"

If you have the game over the other guy to the point that you can electively dog him to mental destruction...then I disagree with you Fran. I see no unsportsman-like conduct in drilling someone with any amount of safeties....sid~~~feels that if you can wield the stick, and not the mouth, with proficient safeties, you're the best player, and winning, at any legal avenue, is what any player should grasp, else as Sid's Grandpa said, "If you aren't gonna take this game serious, quit and save your money."

Fran Crimi
11-24-2006, 02:14 PM
Really? And when was the last time you shot safety shots, not to advance yourself in the game, but just to antagonize your opponent?

Fran

jjinfla
11-24-2006, 03:42 PM
I sure do agree with Fran here. I play one guy here who thinks safety before he thinks run out. He is not all that good at pool but he sure can play the safes. It sure does get frustrating watching him play all those safes. He will have a relatively easy 4/5 ball out and will play safe so he can play that out starting with BIH.

He came here from Vegas where they played a lot of 1-15 last pocket 8-ball. In that game it is all safes and defensive shots. Sure does teach you patience.

Jake

Sid_Vicious
11-24-2006, 08:38 PM
Does he win?

Fran Crimi
11-24-2006, 09:04 PM
I think what you're describing Jake, is a little different than what I was referring to. What you're describing is the beginner who starts to realize how tough the game is. Those players aren't very good, and they're insecure about their ability to run out even the simplest layouts from where the cue ball lies. So the guy you described will try to hook you so he can get ball in hand. So, he's playing a safe to advance himself in the game. It's annoying because it looks like they can run out and end the game. Truth is, they don't think they can.

I'm referring to players who are willing to set themselves back just so they can antagonize their opponent. They might have the win right in front of them, but it's not good enough for them because they want their opponent to miss a shot first out of anger and frustration, and then they go in for the kill. It's more like the cat who plays with a mouse before he kills it.

Then you have social players who don't care if they win or lose, only that they want to antagonize their opponent with safety play.


Fran

Qtec
11-24-2006, 09:36 PM
LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ball-in-hand ? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Qtec..........

Qtec
11-24-2006, 09:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> The object of the game is to win and this includes leaving your opponent with a difficult shot whenever possible (with a legal hit). Get an official rule book here...
https://www.bcastore.com/product_info.php?products_id=118
<hr /></blockquote>
......or no shot!
Lets say you win the string, run 2 racks and you are on the 7 in rack 3. You are faced with a difficult pot but its an easy snooker, almost certain to give a BIH. What do you do?
What would you do in you were 3-0 behind?

Eh............ /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif...........what was the question............Rule book?..........would the stand affect your choice of shot? [ a Q for all /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif]

Qtec /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

jjinfla
11-25-2006, 05:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> I think what you're describing Jake, is a little different than what I was referring to. What you're describing is the beginner who starts to realize how tough the game is. Those players aren't very good, and they're insecure about their ability to run out even the simplest layouts from where the cue ball lies. So the guy you described will try to hook you so he can get ball in hand. So, he's playing a safe to advance himself in the game. It's annoying because it looks like they can run out and end the game. Truth is, they don't think they can.

I'm referring to players who are willing to set themselves back just so they can antagonize their opponent. They might have the win right in front of them, but it's not good enough for them because they want their opponent to miss a shot first out of anger and frustration, and then they go in for the kill. It's more like the cat who plays with a mouse before he kills it.

Then you have social players who don't care if they win or lose, only that they want to antagonize their opponent with safety play.
Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Right again Fran. You pegged this guy. He really does lack confidence to go for the out. He also realizes that it antagonizes his opponents.

Even with his safes I can routinely beat him in 8-ball but in 1-15 last pocket 8-ball I really have to concentrate. It is a whole different game. It is like playing chess You always have to think way ahead.

I suppose what you are describing Fran is a form of strategy or getting into your opponent's head. Get him upset in a game you can easily win and he is done for the night. At least the next few games.

There sure is more thinking in pool than people realize.

Jake

Sid_Vicious
11-25-2006, 03:24 PM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif