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View Full Version : WPBA Winner/Jr. Worlds Winner



slim
11-27-2006, 02:31 PM
I think that any junior that wins the world championships(boy/girl) should automatically get a wild card entry into a pro event of some kind for recognition of their performance.
And in like mind on the womens pro level, if someone wins a qualifier (Jasmin O.) and goes on to win that pro event. One would think she should at least get a wild card entry into one future WPBA event, just food for thought for the sport.

jjinfla
11-27-2006, 06:04 PM
That's a $500 prize you are giving them.

Maybe entry into one of the open tournaments in their area would be more appropriate.

Jake

slim
11-27-2006, 08:39 PM
I just thought all the time effort and years spent to get to that point would be deserving of something special. Jasmin probably put in over ten years of her life to qualify and then be the first EVER winner of a WPBA event from a qualifying position. I know in golf if you win the US amateur championship I think your invited to play in a PGA event, don't you think we could learn something from a sport that has evolved because of wise decisions? $500 I don't understand, other than $500 is $500. I would much rather see Jasmin play than probably any other WPBA pro, because she's new, fresh, young and I find that intriguing. That alone would make me want to attend a WPBA event. So you don't think it would be good, why?

Rich R.
11-28-2006, 04:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr>I know in golf if you win the US amateur championship I think your invited to play in a PGA event, don't you think we could learn something from a sport that has evolved because of wise decisions? <hr /></blockquote>
What's your point. Obviously, you are not informed. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The APA runs the U.S. Amateur Championship and the winners, both the man and the woman, get entry into a pro event.
http://www.poolplayers.com/usam/2006usam/

IIRC, the WPBA also runs a Regional Tour Championship, where the top players from all of the regional tours compete. I may be wrong, but the winner gets an invitation to all of the WPBA events for the comming year.
If I'm wrong about that, hopefully, one of the regional tour people can correct me.

IMHO, I think it is easier for someone like Jasmin to just enter a regional tournament, with a WPBA qualifier as a prize. Most likely, she could walk right through most of those events and get the qualifier, rather than take her chances at a national event, against the better players in the country.

slim
11-28-2006, 05:49 AM
I could be wrong, but I heard Jasmin had to go qualify again to gain entry into her next WPBA event. Winning did not get her qualified for the any tour events. Am I wrong?

Rich R.
11-28-2006, 07:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr> I could be wrong, but I heard Jasmin had to go qualify again to gain entry into her next WPBA event. Winning did not get her qualified for the any tour events. Am I wrong? <hr /></blockquote>
You are correct, winning the WPBA tournament did not get her into another WPBA tournament. Right or wrong, the WPBA doesn't work that way.

In your prior post, you seemed to be comparing her with a golfer winning an amateur title and gaining entry into a PGA event. I simply stated that pool players winning one of the national amateur events will also gain them an entry into a pro event.

Jasmin will have to win qualifiers, to gain entry into WPBA tournaments, until she has earned the required number of "pro points" in the WPBA. Then she will no longer have to win qualifiers. She will be automatically invited.

I'm not sure if the WPBA system for becoming a "touring pro" is on their web site anywhere. I couldn't find it quickly. Maybe someone can help and provide an explanation.

slim
11-28-2006, 08:20 AM
I know there are strict requirements within the WPBA and truly respect that. But doing something of this magnitude should allow for special circumstances, it can only help the tour and the product it represents. Within our sport we have so few areas where players are given special treatment. New ideas should always be considered, playing it safe in life is more risky, because nothing new comes out of it.

Rich R.
11-28-2006, 09:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr> I know there are strict requirements within the WPBA and truly respect that. But doing something of this magnitude should allow for special circumstances, it can only help the tour and the product it represents. Within our sport we have so few areas where players are given special treatment. New ideas should always be considered, playing it safe in life is more risky, because nothing new comes out of it. <hr /></blockquote>I think you are dealing with a double edged sword here.

If you treat one player special and above the rest, others would consider that unfair, and it is, in most cases.
Yet, sometimes someone does something so special, the player deserves special treatment.

In the WPBA, they have a point system, requiring the ladies to first, qualify for the tournament, and then to finish above a certain level in the tournament, to receive a pro point. This is how most become "touring pros" with the WPBA.

On the other hand, when a player not only finishes above the level to get their pro point, but actually wins the tournament, maybe that deserves a little special treatment, such as an invitation to another WPBA tournament.
I couldn't argue with that.

If you feel strongly about this, I suggest you contact the WPBA and suggest it to them. Discussing it on the forums will not make it happen. Just don't get too upset if they don't agree with you. I'm sure they get a lot of suggestions to change the way they do things and they can only adopt a few.

Fran Crimi
11-28-2006, 12:00 PM
Slim, your suggestions are obviously well meant and understandable. It is possible that things can change with the WPBA. In spite of what you may think, they are a very progressive organization, but they also know from experience what works and what doesn't work, which is why they've managed to stay around for so long.

A player can progress within the ranks of the WPBA in two ways: The first is by performance, and the second, which is considered just as important, is time. You have to put in your time, and if your performance meets the grade, you will be rewarded. However, one without the other is not going to work.

Touring pros are considered the cream of the crop on the WPBA tour. It takes a lot to become one, which is why they are given preferential treatment. All the touring pros have had to endure the same issues in order to get where they are, including Alison Fisher who was also winning tournaments before she had become eligible to be a touring pro. The time requirement is that the players need to compete in 80 percent of the tournaments for 10 events in order to be eligible for touring pro status. There are also performance requirements which I understand are being made more stringent at this very moment.

Jasmine is a great player, and after she has competed in 80% of WPBA events for 10 events, she will undoubtedly be automatically invited to compete in every event after that.

Even before that, her chances of being invited will improve as she gains active pro status. There are performance requirements as well, but she needs only to attend I think half the events out of 10 events. So after touring pros and qualifying spots, the remaining open spots go to active pros.

I think it's a very good system that isn't biased in any one direction. Remember, this is a U.S. tour and the action takes place here in the States.

Fran

slim
11-28-2006, 12:23 PM
I totally agree, and posted this issue here because I know you KNOW whats going on.
The marketability of such an accomplishment (like the way you gals dress etc.) can not hurt but only HELP your cause and the game. This situation of a qualifier winner winning the event qualified for is something special it should be embraced. Since the women have done sooooooo much at giving our sport the exposure it so direly needs, why not be proactive when it will benefit the tour and eveyone. Look at the buzz when the world championships were won by WU a 16 yr. old, amazing.

Fran Crimi
11-28-2006, 02:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr> I totally agree, and posted this issue here because I know you KNOW whats going on.
The marketability of such an accomplishment (like the way you gals dress etc.) can not hurt but only HELP your cause and the game. This situation of a qualifier winner winning the event qualified for is something special it should be embraced. Since the women have done sooooooo much at giving our sport the exposure it so direly needs, why not be proactive when it will benefit the tour and eveyone. Look at the buzz when the world championships were won by WU a 16 yr. old, amazing. <hr /></blockquote>

Well, Slim, maybe you should do some homework on how the world championship event is viewed in this country. You might want to check out the history of that event, including their qualifying system and their prize money over the past several years, not only for the men, but for the women as well. You may just find some controversial infomation.

Here's a question for you to research: Is it REALLY a true world championship?

Fran

slim
11-28-2006, 04:53 PM
Fran;
I think John Lewis could better answer that question.
Are your fields still 48 players?
Opportunities such as this don't come along very often, wonder what Peg would say?
Ok I'll let it rest, I just see a golden, marketable opportunity for the WPBA and the industry.
Talk at ya on another thread.

Rich R.
11-28-2006, 08:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr> Are your fields still 48 players? <hr /></blockquote>
It is becoming more and more clear that you know very little about the WPBA, yet you want them to change their rules to suit Jasmin. Although I agree that Jasmin is a great player, there are many great players, who have gone before her, and have worked their way into the WPBA, according to the rules. I don't think it will hurt Jasmin, or the WPBA, to continue to go by the rules.

BTW, to answer your question, the field for the WPBA tournaments was increased to 64, several years ago. Your question tipped your hand and it is obvious you don't know what is currently going on with the WPBA.

jjinfla
11-29-2006, 05:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr>
And in like mind on the womens pro level, if someone wins a qualifier (Jasmin O.) and goes on to win that pro event. One would think she should at least get a wild card entry into one future WPBA event, just food for thought for the sport. <hr /></blockquote>

After thinking about it a bit I don't think this is such a bad suggestion. I doubt that it would happen very often. Has it happened in the past?

Jasmin did get to play in the WPBA as a result of winning a qualifier. (I believe) Then she did win the WPBA tournament. Now people are wondering if it was a fluke or was it really that she is that good. Having her play again would bring good PR to the WPBA.

So that might be a good suggestion to make to the powers to be in the WPBA for the future.

But to change the rules in mid stream would not be fair to the other women who have worked so hard to get to play in the WPBA. Keep in mind that if you give special treatment to Jasmin then you are taking away the honor from some other woman who worked hard to get there.

I would think that this is something that the BOD of the WPBA and the membership would have to discuss and vote on.

I believe that going from 48 to 64 was good for the WPBA and was due in part to discussions held right here many years ago.

Jake

pooltchr
11-29-2006, 05:49 AM
Good point, Rich. One example I can site is Kelly Fisher. Multiple world championships in snooker, yet when she came over here, she had to put in the time winning her way into the WPBA through regional tours and qualifiers. She didn't get a blanket invitation based on her past...she earned her way onto the tour. I see no reason for the WPBA to make exceptions for any player. Everyone has the same opportunities, which guarantees only the best players are in the WPBA events.

Their system seems to be working very well. Why change it?
Steve

slim
11-29-2006, 07:17 AM
A quote from Clint Eastwood sums up his perception of status quo. "Playing it safe is what's risky because nothing new comes out of it."
I totally respect the WPBA, its bylaws and decisions. Me tipping my hand by asking 48 or 64, I just thought it was a question I needed confirmation on, tipping my hand, not sure the signifigance of that comment.
Everything evolves and as another poster said this board had some effect on going to 64 is a perfect example of the WPBA growing and maturing. OK lets not even "consider" my point, then come up with an idea that would impact the WPBA tour and put more buzz on the table. An opportunity like this may not come along again, I say embrace it, its special.
I remember the jealousy years back when Janette was making more $$$'s than the top players, that has evolved and gone away, why, probably because they realized they're all in the same boat and she's doing allot to help keep it afloat. I just wanted to see the boat float higher and make it unsinkable.

Rich R.
11-29-2006, 08:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Good point, Rich. One example I can site is Kelly Fisher. Multiple world championships in snooker, yet when she came over here, she had to put in the time winning her way into the WPBA through regional tours and qualifiers. She didn't get a blanket invitation based on her past...she earned her way onto the tour. I see no reason for the WPBA to make exceptions for any player. Everyone has the same opportunities, which guarantees only the best players are in the WPBA events. <hr /></blockquote>
Steve, you give a prime example. Kelly definitely had to work her way onto the WPBA. In fact, IIRC, I was at one of the first, if not the first, qualifying tournament that Kelly participated in. It was a tournament run by the, now defunct, Chesapeake Area Tour and it was held in Rockville, Md.

Many people expected Kelly, with all of her past accomplishments, to walk right through and get the qualifier. That didn't happen, which shows how tough the regional tours are.

The touring pros of the WPBA have worked every bit as hard as Jasmin to get where they are at. In many ways, it would be a slap in the face, for all of those players, to let Jasmin or any other player just walk in. JMHO.

Rich R.
11-29-2006, 08:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr> Me tipping my hand by asking 48 or 64, I just thought it was a question I needed confirmation on, tipping my hand, not sure the signifigance of that comment. <hr /></blockquote>I referred to you "tipping your hand" because, by not knowing that the WPBA moved to a 64 player field a couple of years ago, you showed that you do not currently follow the WPBA. Yet, for some reason, you have started posting here, to somehow convince the WPBA to give Jasmin O. a free ride into WPBA tournaments.

I don't think that anyone here would dispute the fact that Jasmin is a great player and will be an asset to the WPBA. However, there are many other great players in the WPBA, some with international credentials, who have all come through the system of winning qualifiers to gain entry into the tournaments. I have to ask, why should Jasmin be treated any differently?

Jasmin could enter any regional tournament, with a qualifier prize, and be a 99% favorite. She will only have to suffer through a handful of these tournaments, before she has enough qualifiers to gain entry into enough WPBA tournaments to earn her touring pro status. You really haven't made a convincing argument as to why she shouldn't do that, like all of the players before her.

Fran Crimi
11-29-2006, 08:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I remember the jealousy years back when Janette was making more $$$'s than the top players, that has evolved and gone away, why, probably because they realized they're all in the same boat and she's doing allot to help keep it afloat. I just wanted to see the boat float higher and make it unsinkable.

<hr /></blockquote>


Hold the phone a minute, slim. Let's get the facts straight. The only person who went around saying there was jealousy towards Jeanette back then was Jeanette. I'm sure she'll even admit it to you herself these days, now that she's mellowed some. She was very convincing in her drama and she managed to convince a lot of people of this jealousy thing. It was the players who never begrudged her who got the short end of that stick, particularly in her many media bytes.

Bad example for you to use as a comparison, I'd say. I see you're in Colorado. Do you know John Lewis, since you mentioned him?

Fran

slim
11-29-2006, 09:05 AM
Well now I know about the JL issues, thx. Yep, Louie and I are good friends. Its nice to hear the real truth, and its why I've chose to post here again on BD. The competition is fair and I don't mind committing, making a mistake, learning and moving on, thx for clarification and teaching me.

Nostroke
11-29-2006, 12:54 PM
I will give my unpopular opinion.

The WPBA should change their rules FOR THE FUTURE.

If any player wins an event, they should be invited to all events for a year, provided they agree to play.

If they finish in the top 4, they get invited to the next four tourneys- something along these lines.

We should not make CHAMPIONS have to prove themselves when they have already proved themselves despite the fact that many past champions have had to endure this system. We should be thinking about the future.

I think most pool fans want to see the best women in the world on the WPBA. The present system does not encourage this. Right now, if you take away the top 4, the rest of the World is way stronger than the remaining WPBA. Ga Young says there are MANY ladies in Taiwan that play her speed. The recent winner of the All Japan Championships who beat Jasmin, Ga young, jennifer Chen etc is just another player in Taiwan.

Logistically it is so difficult for a non English Speaker to come here and play on the RT's . Think if you had to go to China and play in many unconnected pool events, making the Hotel Resv, getting the air tix and the rental car, driving directions, etc. Very daunting and even scary for many i would think.

However some would take the chance i believe if they thought they could possibly have a less brutal row to hoe.

I (emphasis) would enjoy seeing the top players in the World on the WPBA but perhaps if eventually 5 of the top 6 could barely speak a word of English, the WPBA would lose some of it's fan base. This may be a part ot the WPBA's thinking. I don't know.

Then again, the Asian population here seems to be growing pretty quick and Asians like pool more than middle America IMHO so maybe the fan base would be replaced and surpassed- Who knows? Not me for sure.

Anway just some thoughts.

slim
11-29-2006, 01:19 PM
Take a look at my new post about WPBA Qualifying, it goes along with your thoughts.
Proactive is good. The gals have got it going, but.....? they increased from 48-64 which was a good move but....... In golf, they always have 128 for the first two days before the field is cut in half for Sat/Sun. Ya gotta think there's another 64 great women players somewhere else on this planet.
All the great world class women golfers speak english, if not they learn it. These are talented proactive women, learning another skill (english) is just another challenge for them.
All great tennis players also speak english.

Fran Crimi
11-29-2006, 01:28 PM
Yes, there would be lots of things that would be nice to see happen. One of them would be more money to be able to expand the events to larger venues where more tables can be used so the fields can be made larger without forcing the event to be a week long.

Maybe the countries of those players you're referring to would be willing to contribute several hundred thousand to the WPBA tour? I'm sure you would get the undivided attention of the WPBA if that were to happen.

Fran

slim
11-29-2006, 01:49 PM
Has the WPBA contacted pro womens associations in other parts of the world to see if there is any interest?

Fran Crimi
11-29-2006, 02:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr> Has the WPBA contacted pro womens associations in other parts of the world to see if there is any interest? <hr /></blockquote>

I don't know. That's out of my realm of knowledge. If you have an idea, though, definitely send it to the WPBA Board. They're not closed-minded---They take every suggestion seriously.

Fran

Rich R.
11-30-2006, 04:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> I will give my unpopular opinion.

The WPBA should change their rules FOR THE FUTURE.

If any player wins an event, they should be invited to all events for a year, provided they agree to play.

If they finish in the top 4, they get invited to the next four tourneys- something along these lines.

We should not make CHAMPIONS have to prove themselves when they have already proved themselves despite the fact that many past champions have had to endure this system. We should be thinking about the future. <hr /></blockquote>
Dave, I wouldn't call your ideas "unpopular", especially since you stressed that they should be changed "FOR THE FUTURE". As a fan of the WPBA, I would agree with every one of your points.
The only change I am against is the changing rules immediately, for the benefit of a single player. If the WPBA would hold a board meeting and adopt all of your points for the 2007 season, I would be all for it.

slim
11-30-2006, 09:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> I will give my unpopular opinion.

The WPBA should change their rules FOR THE FUTURE.

If any player wins an event, they should be invited to all events for a year, provided they agree to play.

If they finish in the top 4, they get invited to the next four tourneys- something along these lines.

We should not make CHAMPIONS have to prove themselves when they have already proved themselves despite the fact that many past champions have had to endure this system. We should be thinking about the future.

I think most pool fans want to see the best women in the world on the WPBA. The present system does not encourage this. Right now, if you take away the top 4, the rest of the World is way stronger than the remaining WPBA. Ga Young says there are MANY ladies in Taiwan that play her speed. The recent winner of the All Japan Championships who beat Jasmin, Ga young, jennifer Chen etc is just another player in Taiwan.

Logistically it is so difficult for a non English Speaker to come here and play on the RT's . Think if you had to go to China and play in many unconnected pool events, making the Hotel Resv, getting the air tix and the rental car, driving directions, etc. Very daunting and even scary for many i would think.

However some would take the chance i believe if they thought they could possibly have a less brutal row to hoe.

I (emphasis) would enjoy seeing the top players in the World on the WPBA but perhaps if eventually 5 of the top 6 could barely speak a word of English, the WPBA would lose some of it's fan base. This may be a part ot the WPBA's thinking. I don't know.

Then again, the Asian population here seems to be growing pretty quick and Asians like pool more than middle America IMHO so maybe the fan base would be replaced and surpassed- Who knows? Not me for sure.

Anway just some thoughts. <hr /></blockquote>

Dave I too like allot of your ideas, not because they support my reasons for starting this thread but because they make common sense.

It's no different than Deno in the IPT event, he changed the rules in mid stream, one foot on the floor. It was a simple thing but change was needed, it was obvious and addressed.

I heard there are only 7 WPBA events this coming year and that attendance has been down over previous years. In the business world, when you change slowly or resist constant change, there is always someone passing you up.

We need a Wal-Mart/Big Box pool concept, not a mom and pop successful store. The gals have the only current successful vehicle, I think it needs a good tune up, foundations always need to be worked on unless you've built a pyramid.

Rich R.
11-30-2006, 09:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr> It's no different than Deno in the IPT event, he changed the rules in mid stream, one foot on the floor. It was a simple thing but change was needed, it was obvious and addressed.<hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue">I agree that the one foot rule had to be implemented, but I have to question doing it half way through a tournament. Some players had the advantage of the loop hole, early in the tournament, where others did not have that advantage, later on.
Implementing the rule for the next tournament, if there ever is one, makes more sense to me. JMHO.</font color>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr>I heard there are only 7 WPBA events this coming year and that attendance has been down over previous years. In the business world, when you change slowly or resist constant change, there is always someone passing you up.<hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue">IIRC, there have only been 7 WPBA events for the last several years. I'm not sure when the last time was, when they had more than 7.
I have also heard rumors that the attendance has been down since they started having the tournaments at casinos.
IMHO, they are not attracting many of the real pool fans, to the casinos and there are too many other distractions in those locations.
Also, IMHO, the WPBA has abandoned the Mid-Atlantic and the Northeast, where there prime fan base is located.
On the other hand, they have to go to the locations willing to put up the money to host tournaments. This is a real dilema. </font color>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote slim:</font><hr> We need a Wal-Mart/Big Box pool concept, not a mom and pop successful store. The gals have the only current successful vehicle, I think it needs a good tune up, foundations always need to be worked on unless you've built a pyramid. <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue">The big question is how do they accomplish this? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif </font color>

slim
11-30-2006, 10:46 AM
By opening up to the knowlege thats out there, exchanging ideas with forum and industry members through the internet and a specific WPBA discussion forum.

It costs nothing and new ideas are needed. If guided energy is put into a product (wpba) thats up and running and evolving, the next venture will be able to see what does and does not work and be more willing to jump in.

Here in the states, we KNOW what doesn't work. Samo/Samo needs attention.

DickLeonard
12-01-2006, 07:42 PM
slim that is how the ProGolf tour operates Win an event and you get a years exemption. Win the US and British Amateur and you get invited to tne US.Open,Masters,British OPen.

Pool cannot copy Golf, the most successfully run individual sporting events in the world. The thinking, must be anything they do is wrong we have a better idea.####