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Gayle in MD
12-06-2006, 10:08 AM
That seems to be the big question this week. Will Bush, listen to advice? You folks on here are not going to believe this, beleive me...lol, but I find myself feeling sorry for Bush. I've never seen him look so beleaguered. as he did this morning, with the Baker group. His Dad, is breaking down in public, and who can say for certain why, but it is hard to think that watching his son being accused as the worst president in history, doesn't have something to do with it.

According to the Committee, our circumstances in Iraq are grave, and deterriorating quickly. Even their suggestions, seem to bear an element of contradiction.

I was struck, though, that Bush called for non partisan, non political, bi-party cohesion, and solutions. He, and the Republicans, have, after all, blocked the Democrats, all along, from any input.

I think, given politics, in general, and the stark findings of the committee, things are probably even more grave than they admit.

Seeing a man, any man, when he is down, is not a pretty sight, regardless of whether he has brought his disgrace upon himself, or not. If Bush, can only get past his blustery manner, and be honest, and truthful, and drop the continuous rhetoric of denial, he still has a chance to go the right direction, and do the right thing, and leave the office with some dignity.

I was pretty pumped up, yesterday, after listening to our new Secretary of Defense, before he left for lunch. I was thinking, at last, a man who speaks truth to power, Bush, has finally, made a good decision! He said, what bush, Hadley, Rumsfeld, Rice, and Cheney, have denied for months, we're not winning the war in Iraq. Then, he came back from lunch, and it was like someone put a pin in my baloon, he changed that over to, we're not winning, but we're not losing. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif Oh man, hey, you're either winning, or you're losing, it's either spinning, or it's not spinning, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif chocolate, or vanilla...give me a break! I'm going to hope, that we're not going to see just another appointee, or main character in this mess, say what is true, then take it back later for political purposes.

Whatever happens, I hope it happens soon. Dragging this thing out until 08, is insane, IMO. We'll lose thousands more of our people if we do that. Upsetting the apple cart, in the middle of the world's oil region, has been a huge mistake. Trying to reverse such dior circumstances, isn't going to be any piece of cake, that's for sure. How do you train an army, that turns the training into more sectarian violence? I'm afraid this thing is about to blow sky high, and things have been minimized for so long now, that it's too late, to get it under control. If that's the case, should we get our folks out of there?

[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote> The report concludes: "Foreign policy is doomed to failure -- as is any action in Iraq -- if not supported by broad, sustained consensus." [ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>

This follows statements regarding surrounding countries in the Middle East, and dilomacy, for our cause. What can this mean other then our future in Iraq, is going to be determined by Syria and Iran??? Very grim, I'm afraid.



I think we should leave, now, and train the Iraqis who want to fight for Democracy, outside of the country. Maybe we could brain wash them, before we let them loose with a gun? Jeeze! Any suggestions anyone? Is there any way out of this without the slaughter of more of our young people? What a heartbreaking mess this whole misadventure has become. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Gayle in Md.

S0Noma
12-06-2006, 11:14 AM
http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,372106,00.jpg

Gayle in MD
12-06-2006, 11:34 AM
Let's hope that won't be a fleeting condition, or my compassions will be short lived, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif. When I saw how badly he looked this morning, I wondered what he knows, that we still don't know.

Gayle in Md.

Sid_Vicious
12-06-2006, 06:42 PM
"lol, but I find myself feeling sorry for Bush"

Not me. Anyone accepting the job, swearing an oath, and supposedly a faith based American with the job of utilizing resources at hand to analyze the WHOLE of the picture of the invasion and protecting the US's interests, without his or his cronnie's personal gains...well he's in effect a criminal. Would you feel sorry for a serial killer of say, eight college coeds, much less GW's thousands? His solid unwavering "stay the course" was a death sentence of every one who died in Iraq, EVERY time he stalled out with that worn out phrase. George was more pi$$ed than despondent, trust me. If he has reasons for my feeling sorry, it would be because he's mentally challenged. Frankly though, he's simply a greed-miester for HIS class.

This report of the options and the global outlook of the outs for us in this war...well, it IMO should cause an impeachment with no chance of a pardon, PRONTO....sid

Gayle in MD
12-06-2006, 08:31 PM
Martin,
You're right, of course. My sympathy was fleeting, as I knew it would be. By dinner time, I was madder than a banny hen. I was struck, after listening to all the news programs tonight, and reading much of the report, how many in the Bush tight circle, Tony Snow, Hadley, Bush's W.H. spokesman, can't think of his name...anyway, how often they used..."The American People are going to have to understand...."

I got angrier, and angrier listening to that BS. The American People, most of us anyway, understood a long time ago, it was the Administration, that didn't UNDERSTAND!!!

You know, they started out lying about this war, then they wasted three years, f-ing up, and lying about how badly they were f-ing up, and now...all they can say is that the American People have got to understand???? What incredible outrageous nerve!!!

After watching, and reading all day and evening, my take is still...it's too late. They, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Rice, and their Republican Party Representatives, who covered up for them, and minimized all their transgressions, and the right wing media included, lied about too much, for too long. Now, it's too late.

Ten to twelve more of our people died today. Thirty already this month. Just imagine, if we're there till early 08, how many more of our people will die.

If George bush had any conscience at all, he would resign, and take Cheney with him. That is now the only honorable thing that he can do. I'm a great believer of..."Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way." He is in the way, and has been in the way of what is best for our country, ever since he got in office.

And, if I hear one more right-wing media pundit say that the Democrats voted for this war too, when we all know damn well, they were voting on falsehoods, fed to them by Bush, Cheney and Rice, hammered into the National brain, over and over again, bin Laden/Saddam, connected to 911, WMD's, and Mushroom clouds, and al Qaeda, lies lies and more lies, then people want to balme the Democrats??? OMG! That is simply NUTS! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

gayle...

Sid_Vicious
12-06-2006, 08:59 PM
Let's just pray, to whatever upper level power each of us choose to revere as theirs, that sensibility and some balance can be found and that those endangered soldiers can exit. One of the sad aspects of what I have heard from these bi-partisan spokespeople today, is that it might be too late to have any grace left after the dust settles. Bush may have very well destroyed this country. At best, he has set us back in diplomacy in a possible, unsurmountable point in history. Yes he should resign. I don't know how the man sleeps at night...sid

Gayle in MD
12-06-2006, 09:43 PM
You know Martin, it is the foreign correspondents who have the most knowledge about what is really going on over there. Christianna Ammanpor, and I can't think of the names of two other guys, but hearing all three tonight, was not at all encouraging. What really gets me, is when I have to watch Bush, with that head bobbing, and that smirk, lecturing us about not understanding the risks of losing in Iraq! And preaching about what's at stake. Had he understood the risks of stirring things up in Iraq, and the stakes involved in a pre-enptive war, in the middle of that volital region, we wouldn't be in this mess. I don't see any way out, that isn't wrought with danger, and destruction, and dior circumstances for us here, as well as in the Middle East. Where are all those huffy, mighty talking, hawkish, neocons now? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md.

FatsRedux
12-06-2006, 10:51 PM
I kept waiting for the grand finale in Iraq, but it never came.

Iraq is a trap. We are being set up. We should get out now!

Bush flubbed this. With the exception of humanitarian sensitive targets we should have utterly destroyed every vestige of their infrastructure, shot Saddam on sight and dumped his body in Baghdad. Then we should have informed the local honchos that we were declaring victory immmediately and pulling out. Leaving them to their own devices, with threat of massive air strikes should they screw up.

Actually, that is the way we have already waged some wars. If you harken back to the Kosovo War (an all out civil war). Faced with a tough call Clinton and his Cabinet settled on a massive air campaign. We hit them with everything and eventually they broke. It worked (even if we did blow up the Chinese embassy in the process. Tactically and strategically it was brilliant.

IMO, the majority of future conflicts will in fact be fought this way.

We will get out of this, it's gonna be a tough slog but we'll make it.

Fats

Gayle in MD
12-07-2006, 04:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote> Iraq is a trap. We are being set up. We should get out now!
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>

I agree, Fats. Going in was a mistake in the first place. This Baker panel, was a waste of time, IMO. The only thing it accomplished, was to officially blow away all the BS the Administration has been feeding the public, and put a bi-partisan face on the whole mess. In fact, I think they were just buying time, until after the election, offering false hopes for a magic bullet.

Their proposal will certainly put those of our people who will be imbedded with the Iraqis, at the mercy of the violence, without much back up, IMO. I don't think it's about "Training" when those who are trained, become part of the sectarian killing. We should give them the equipment, make them agree to pay us back, and get out.

All the concerns people express over supposed results of saying what is so, "What will the terrorists think, what will the troops think, what will the voters think," etc., and using that to defend minimizing the truth, is a big part of the problem. Sandra Day O'Connor, seemed to be telling the press to lay off! Everytime a leak, exposed some realilty, the administration went berzerk. it's as though pretense, is supposed to be a good thing. This entire fiasco is a good example of the destructive results of lies, and manipulation. Supress reality at all costs. that's a fine program for pulling the country together, and decision making????

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
12-07-2006, 08:00 AM
Gayle Cheney has to go this all has to do with the thinking we are the Super Power in the World and we have to solve everyones problem Militaryly. This war has proved we can't beat women in a Sari. Sorry ####

Gayle in MD
12-07-2006, 08:24 AM
Well, in this group, one is as bad as the next. Rice, Cheney, Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Hadley, Pace, then you start factoring in for all their "In the loop" so-conspirators, like Amramoff, Delay, Cunningham, Safavian, you could go on and on, even right down to their media bunch, Coulter, cheating on her taxes, Limbaugh, a druggie, O'Reilly, jerking off on the phone with his young producer, add to that the sexual exploits of their extremists on the religious right, Jeeze, I've never seen anything like it, so many ill adjusted drawn to the same party, it's a terrific example of what kind of people are enticed by the opportunity to dictate, judge, and force their ideology on everyone else.

It's going to take years, to drain this swamp. The only thing I care about now, is getting our people out of Iraq, that's all. If, they're going to force our young people to stay there, they should put up their own damn family members, and send those who have already been exploited way way beyond their honor and loyalty to their country back home.

And Bush!!! Won't stop by Iraq! Insists on flying all the way back to the White House to sleep in his own bed when he's traveling....awe....don't want little Bushy to be uncomfortable, now, do we. That costs the taxpayers, plenty! A friend in Government, told me recently, that George and Laura, have cost the taxpayers, even considering cost of living considerations, more money for luxurious extras, than any presidential couple in history!

He's the worst, ever, no doubt, and so is she.

Gayle in Md.

MrLucky
12-07-2006, 08:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Well, in this group, one is as bad as the next. Rice, Cheney, Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Hadley, Pace, then you start factoring in for all their "In the loop" so-conspirators, like Amramoff, Delay, Cunningham, Safavian, you could go on and on, even right down to their media bunch, Coulter, cheating on her taxes, Limbaugh, a druggie, O'Reilly, jerking off on the phone with his young producer, add to that the sexual exploits of their extremists on the religious right, Jeeze, I've never seen anything like it, so many ill adjusted drawn to the same party, it's a terrific example of what kind of people are enticed by the opportunity to dictate, judge, and force their ideology on everyone else.

It's going to take years, to drain this swamp. The only thing I care about now, is getting our people out of Iraq, that's all. If, they're going to force our young people to stay there, they should put up their own damn family members, and send those who have already been exploited way way beyond their honor and loyalty to their country back home.

And Bush!!! Won't stop by Iraq! Insists on flying all the way back to the White House to sleep in his own bed when he's traveling....awe....don't want little Bushy to be uncomfortable, now, do we. That costs the taxpayers, plenty! A friend in Government, told me recently, that George and Laura, have cost the taxpayers, even considering cost of living considerations, more money for luxurious extras, than any presidential couple in history!

He's the worst, ever, no doubt, and so is she.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="red">Very apt analysis! Bush went into Iraq for his own selfish reasons and our children are paying the price for his folly ! The saddest part is he really doesn't even get it! I would really like to know what his IQ level is ? </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Gayle in MD
12-07-2006, 09:08 AM
If we knew the real truth about that, we probably couldn't sleep at night. It's hard enough, right now, without knowing. So much of the factual information about that family has been deep sixed by their connections, but the proof on a lot of it lies in the fact that not one accusation by biographers, had ever led to a law suit. What does that tell ya!?

Gayle in Md.

DickLeonard
12-07-2006, 12:00 PM
Mr.Lucky I heard tell and it has never been disputed that Bill Clinton's IQ is higher than the two Bush's combined.####