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jjinfla
12-20-2006, 06:46 AM
I was wondering if it is allowable in a Pro Tournament that is held outside the US for a player to concede a ball in a game?

I am getting pretty tired of going to tournaments and watching Earl just rake 3,4,5 balls and concede the game. And now I notice a lot of the other pros are doing the same thing.

Earl, and these other players should keep in mind that not everyone is there to watch them play. Sometimes we like to watch the other players shoot the balls and when they concede the shots we don't get that privilege.

If they are gambling with each other then I say do any damn thing you want to do, but if you are playing in what is called a PRO tournament then make each player shoot every shot.

This is especially true now that pool rooms want to charge admission to watch the pros play.

I always had the idea Earl did it when he wanted to get the match over with so he could leave and go play golf and his opponent was not shooting fast enough.

The pros are quick to comment on how well the golfers are paid. I wonder if they notice that there are no gimme's on the golf tour.

The Pros miss too. Ask Robb. He missed a "tester" 9 ball that cost him a game last Sunday.

I don't mind paying the $10 admission fee to stand and watch them play but if I do pay then I sure do want each player to have to shoot each and every ball.

Jake

Rich R.
12-20-2006, 07:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> I am getting pretty tired of going to tournaments and watching Earl just rake 3,4,5 balls and concede the game. And now I notice a lot of the other pros are doing the same thing. <hr /></blockquote>All tournaments should adopt the rules used on the Tiger Planet Pool Tour, here in the Mid-Atlantic region. If you concede a ball or a game, you lose that game and one more.
Some players will still concede on the final rack of a match, that puts them out, but you don't see it near as often as other places.

Bob_Jewett
12-20-2006, 12:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> I am getting pretty tired of going to tournaments and watching Earl just rake 3,4,5 balls and concede the game. And now I notice a lot of the other pros are doing the same thing. <hr /></blockquote>All tournaments should adopt the rules used on the Tiger Planet Pool Tour, here in the Mid-Atlantic region. If you concede a ball or a game, you lose that game and one more. ... <hr /></blockquote>
That's how some tournaments around here are run as well. I prefer it that way, as it eliminates any uncertainty of how the rack will end. Some players seem to use ball concessions as a sharking/gamesmanship ploy.

The proposed new WPA (World Standardized) rules for 2008 don't say anything specific about this, but perhaps they should. I'll see what I can do.

Tom_In_Cincy
12-20-2006, 02:06 PM
Even when the admission is FREE, spectators complain.

At the US Open, if you concede, it cost you that game plus the next game. Most major tournaments and some of the better regional tours, enforce the 'no consession' rule.

A few years ago, when the young Russians were in attendance at the US Open, one of the 17 year olds was playing Earl and the 17 year old went to concede the game and Earl got an interperter to explain the consequences to the kid.

If Earl hadn't conceded would you have gotten your $10 worth?

Talk about 'pissy', maybe they could schedule matches to start only when you are comfy...



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>
I don't mind paying the $10 admission fee to stand and watch them play but if I do pay then I sure do want each player to have to shoot each and every ball.

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

Fran Crimi
12-20-2006, 02:33 PM
I remember a couple of regional tours where if you concede a game, you lose not only the game you conceded, but also another game as a penalty. It did stop players from conceding games.

The main reason why players conceded games, particularly when they do it with 2 or 3 balls left is because they are acting like pouting children. They most likely made a dumb mistake and they don't want the agony of sitting in the chair watching their mistake play out in their opponent's favor. It's less painful to just give up the game and move on so they can move past the mistake. But sitting there while your opponent shoots is PART OF THE GAME.

I happen to think players shouldn't get away with that. If they make a mistake, then they should take their punishment with good sportsmanship.

Sometimes where just one ball is concerned, conceding games can also be a shark move. A player will concede games and then when their opponent expects them to concede the game, they make the opponent shoot.

Fran

HarryDC
12-20-2006, 06:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> Even when the admission is FREE, spectators complain.

At the US Open, if you concede, it cost you that game plus the next game. Most major tournaments and some of the better regional tours, enforce the 'no consession' rule.

A few years ago, when the young Russians were in attendance at the US Open, one of the 17 year olds was playing Earl and the 17 year old went to concede the game and Earl got an interperter to explain the consequences to the kid.

If Earl hadn't conceded would you have gotten your $10 worth?

Talk about 'pissy', maybe they could schedule matches to start only when you are comfy...



<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr>
I don't mind paying the $10 admission fee to stand and watch them play but if I do pay then I sure do want each player to have to shoot each and every ball.

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

<hr /></blockquote>

Hey Jake

Above is the response I would expect from a TD who runs tournaments in a room with crooked tables with nonstandard
pockets.

It denies patrons an equal chance to win so the same people (pros)who concede the games can clean unsuspecting customers out of their hard earned money.

The Ladies always lead the way as usual. The best pool tour in the world (WPBA) has a no consession rule. The price of admission is a lot more than $10 and it is expected to see every shot.

HarryDC

jjinfla
12-20-2006, 06:50 PM
Harry,

Sometimes they concede a bunch of balls because the guy they are dumping to is so bad they can't take the chance of him not being able to run out. Or they are just in a hurry to get to the golf course.

Tom, You went both ways on your answer. Are you for allowing players to concede balls or not. Is it okay to just concede the last ball? The last two? The last Three? The last 4? The last 5? The last 9?

I have seen Earl do all of the above. Yes, he conceded all 9 to Troy Frank a few months ago.

As far as my money's worth, the match I watched Earl and Dennis Hatch play on saturday was worth the price of admission. The rest was all gravy.

Hatch vs Crosby was also a great match. Especially the great safe he played on Tony to get 3 fouls for the match win after coming from behind 6-3.

Well, I doubt that there will be any tournaments around here for the next few months so I won't have that problem for a while.

Jake

Tom_In_Cincy
12-20-2006, 07:08 PM
I am against consessions. But, even the World Standard rules don't address this issue.

If Harry ever came to one of my tournaments, he'd be escorted to the nearest exit.

These tournaments are for real men and real women players who like the playing conditions tough NOT with those 5 inch pocket the women play on.

Rich R.
12-21-2006, 07:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> These tournaments are for real men and real women players who like the playing conditions tough NOT with those 5 inch pocket the women play on. <hr /></blockquote>
Tom I don't want to get in the middle of the love fest between you and Harry, but, for the purpose of clarity, I have to say the women are playing on tables with pockest well under 5". I forget the exact dimension, but it is not an easy table.

Sorry for the interuption. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tom_In_Cincy
12-21-2006, 09:30 AM
Well under?... I doubt it very seriously, at the very most, maybe 1/16th of an inch. But I've been wrong before.. there was that time in 1968......

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> These tournaments are for real men and real women players who like the playing conditions tough NOT with those 5 inch pocket the women play on. <hr /></blockquote>
Tom I don't want to get in the middle of the love fest between you and Harry, but, for the purpose of clarity, I have to say the women are playing on tables with pockest well under 5". I forget the exact dimension, but it is not an easy table.

Sorry for the interuption. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Fran Crimi
12-21-2006, 09:43 AM
It was 4 5/8 a few years ago when I played on tour. I've heard it's been reduced further to 4 1/2. That's unconfirmed, though.

Fran

HarryDC
12-21-2006, 02:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Tom_In_Cincy:</font><hr> I am against consessions. But, even the World Standard rules don't address this issue.

If Harry ever came to one of my tournaments, he'd be escorted to the nearest exit.

These tournaments are for real men and real women players who like the playing conditions tough NOT with those 5 inch pocket the women play on.


<hr /></blockquote>

Hey Tom,

You mean real crooks don't you? You have nothing to worry about I wouldn't set foot in the dive without my H&amp;K 45.

Jake,

If the players are in a hurry to leave why let them play in the tournament and why should you waste your time watching them? I don't! The WPBA is the tour to support! Bad choices watching players who want to hurry to leave and play with crooked pockets. Nothing but a shell game with no pea.

HarryDC