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View Full Version : DickLeonard's Extreme Break Shot



qstroker2004
01-05-2007, 09:29 PM
I understand that somethings just may be off limits, but I was reading an old thread on Mr. Leonard's great back cut break shot. I think the shot is something like this (just click on the link):

http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AKID4BCYH3CDGH4DCYm4EFKm3FDGm4GBKW3HAUH3IAUm3JF rl4KDvW3LBrW3MEdV4NBJr3OBqr4PSWf@

The reason this shot sticks in my mind is that I saw an Accustats tape where Mike Massey makes mention of this shot. He said that so-and-so (forget who) showed him a foolproof way of making the shot. Of course they never followed up on the answer.

The other thing that confuses me is that anytime I've made extreme cut breaks like this, the cue ball moves so slowly that it almost always gets kicked away by one of the rack balls.

So, anyway, is this an accurate depiction of the shot, and is there any chance we'll find out if there is a real trick to it?

Thanks,
dwhite
PS - I highly recommend to do a search of dickLeonard's posts and see all the great threads that come up! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cueball1950
01-05-2007, 11:16 PM
while this post and example are close. I think his favorite back cut would have to be the one where the balls are even closer to the rail...... Johnny Ervilino once told me that in all his years of playing pool, he has never seen anyone ever back cut a ball as good as Dick Leonard can. Told me that at 1 match they played he kept thinking that Dick was getting alot of bad luck because he kept geting these severe back cuts. But after speaking to Dick about it after 1 particular match he soon realized that Dick was indeed playing for these break shots. Johnny told me he went home and practiced that particular shot for over a month and had a hard time mastering it. Claims he never did. Thats my story and i am sticking to it............mike

SpiderMan
01-06-2007, 01:51 PM
Mike,

I'm not much of a straight pool player, but I don't understand why you would deliberately leave yourself a back cut. Being a little off in the wrong direction would leave an unmakeable shot, so why not try for an 83.6-degree cut instead? Couldn't you get pretty much the same result on the pack?

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cueball1950:</font><hr> while this post and example are close. I think his favorite back cut would have to be the one where the balls are even closer to the rail...... Johnny Ervilino once told me that in all his years of playing pool, he has never seen anyone ever back cut a ball as good as Dick Leonard can. Told me that at 1 match they played he kept thinking that Dick was getting alot of bad luck because he kept geting these severe back cuts. But after speaking to Dick about it after 1 particular match he soon realized that Dick was indeed playing for these break shots. Johnny told me he went home and practiced that particular shot for over a month and had a hard time mastering it. Claims he never did. Thats my story and i am sticking to it............mike <hr /></blockquote>

qstroker2004
01-06-2007, 04:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Mike,

I'm not much of a straight pool player, but I don't understand why you would deliberately leave yourself a back cut. Being a little off in the wrong direction would leave an unmakeable shot, so why not try for an 83.6-degree cut instead? Couldn't you get pretty much the same result on the pack?

SpiderMan
<hr /></blockquote>

I assume a "back cut" shot is simply one at a sharp angle. I can't imagine the DickLeonard shot is more than 80 some-odd degrees. I don't understand how the cue ball makes it to the pocket without getting kissed outby the pack balls, which will be travelling faster. I've hit plenty of sharp cuts and they often don't make it to the pocket.

dwhite &lt;-- hoping dick will chime in when he gets a chance.

Sid_Vicious
01-06-2007, 04:44 PM
IMO there's got to be air under that CB at impact if this shot layout was really as depicted. Honestly speaking...I could never figure to make that shot, so take my comments as NQ, except for the fact that before I knew a little about back cut physics(banger stage of career), I felt abilities which gave me the idea the "I can make this." Some went back then, but now I just don't try unless it's a horsing around game. A non fear factor makes more possibilities for big shots...sid

cueball1950
01-06-2007, 07:28 PM
Spiderman and others that have commented on this. I have no idea on why he plays position for this shot or why he likes it so much. I, Myself have seen him make it several times and never realized it until i did talk with Johnny Ervilino. I then started paying more attention to his play and he indeed did play this sharp back cut break shot as often as he could. I will leave his reasoning for him to explain. I am sure that when he sees this post he will reply. But be aware that this is not the 1st time this subject has come up and i have told this story. I think if you look up the posts started by Dick you will also find a post that he started on this subject.....................mike

cueball1950
01-06-2007, 07:56 PM
I had to go back to i think july or so of 2005 to find it. BUT,,,I have found one of the original posts... Maybe Spiderman will remember it... I am asking Dick to respond and explain as promised in the original post. Hope he answers all your questions.................mike

qstroker2004
01-06-2007, 08:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cueball1950:</font><hr> while this post and example are close. I think his favorite back cut would have to be the one where the balls are even closer to the rail<hr /></blockquote>

Mayber closer to this?
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4ARRm4BCYH3CDGH4DCYm4EFKm3FDGm4GBKW3HAUH3IAUm3JF rl4KDvW3LBrW3MEdV4NBJr3OBqr4PXdn@

I suppose the further the object ball is from the pack the less likely it will get kissed out? Maybe?

dwhite

DickLeonard
01-06-2007, 11:08 PM
Qstroker2004 that shot can't be made, the shot I played was with the object ball near the intersecting line of the first diamond on the short rail and the second diamond on the long rail. The cueball would lay near the rail and maybe up a diamond so that the cueball would cut the ball backwards into the pocket and the cueball would smash into the rack. You have to be able to aim your cuetip with lefthand english at the point of contact or you can't make it. The shot illistrated could only be made using righthand english and spinning the object ball in. Then I doubt if it could be made.####

cueball1950
01-07-2007, 01:29 AM
Dick.....thanks for the quick reply and answer. now i know and understand why Johnny said you were a master of that shot...lolol.. Are you going to Valley Forge this year????? Talk with you soon and tell Joe i was asking about him....mike

qstroker2004
01-07-2007, 06:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Qstroker2004 that shot can't be made, the shot I played was with the object ball near the intersecting line of the first diamond on the short rail and the second diamond on the long rail. The cueball would lay near the rail and maybe up a diamond so that the cueball would cut the ball backwards into the pocket and the cueball would smash into the rack. You have to be able to aim your cuetip with lefthand english at the point of contact or you can't make it. <hr /></blockquote>

OK, thanks. That's an amazing shot. Just for the record I've diagrammed it here:
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AOgd4BCYH3CDGH4DCYm4EFKm3FDGm4GBKW3HAUH3IAUm3JF rl4KDvW3LBrW3MEdV4NBJr3OBqr4PWek@

dwhite