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View Full Version : English Transfer from CB to OB (Scott Lee / Gayle)



SpiderMan
01-09-2007, 02:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr>
Quote Gayle in MD:
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That's what I thought, too. I used to say, ..."but, I know I've been able to make some tough shots, especially into the side pockets, by spinning the ball in, with a little side on the CB."

"No, Gayle, side english is not transferred from the CB, to the OB."

There's atleast one instructor, someone we all know and love, with whom I've argued about this for years, lol. I hope they see this thread, it will be interesting to see if the person/people in question, identify themselves...

Gayle in Md.


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NO GAYLE...SIDESPIN is NOT transferred from the CB to the OB...at least not significantly enough to produce a viable result (max transfer will be appx. 2%). Putting right english on the CB will NOT put left english on the OB. We prove this over and over in pool school, even to skeptics.

Believe what you want, but if you want phyisical proof, I'll show you on your own table, the next time I see you.
Nuff said...

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>


Scott and Gayle,

I was unsuccessful in attempts with my home camcorder, but I came across this video on Dr Dave's site that clearly shows spin transfer from CB to OB: HSV A.66 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-66.htm)

You can see that the OB begins rotating immediately upon the CB's contact. By roughly counting the apparent rotation rates of both balls, it appears the OB has about 15% to 20% of the CB's spin rate.

SpiderMan

SPetty
01-09-2007, 03:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I was unsuccessful in attempts with my home camcorder...<hr /></blockquote>Were you successful with your home eyes? I've tried this before (a long time ago) and I wasn't able to see the second ball take the spin like is shown in the video. It is what many of us think happens, but it's hard to see. If it worked like the video shows, you'd think you could see it with the naked eye, wouldn't you?

cushioncrawler
01-09-2007, 03:44 PM
I know that with the tight pockets on a 12' table, i often uze spin on the qball to help put "pocket side" on the objectball to help it go in. Often it is plain to see that the objectball hits the cushion before the pocket yet goze in due to pocket side (ie check side, ie inside english) whereaz it would jaw out if it had zero side or a bit of running side (outside english). This sort of thing is very obvious with tighter pockets especially on your home table where u know for sure what shood or shoodnt happen.

I have even come across one or two horror tables (horror pockets) where a ball rolling (at hi-speed) a few mm off the cushion and parallel to the cushion will never go in unless it has pocket side (otherwise u havta hit slowish, and even then u havta keep your fingers crossed). madMac.

SpiderMan
01-09-2007, 04:05 PM
Yes, you can see it if you use a stripe as the OB.

Set up a long straight shot, with the stripe aligned in the direction of travel, and shoot with no sidespin. The OB will roll and the stripe will remain clearly aligned in the direction of roll.

Now repeat the same setup, but use sidespin on the CB. The transferred spin will be immediately apparent because the stripe will spin off-center as it rolls.

You will find that it is impossible to use sidespin and have the striped OB roll without spin.

SpiderMan

dr_dave
01-09-2007, 04:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I was unsuccessful in attempts with my home camcorder...<hr /></blockquote>Were you successful with your home eyes? I've tried this before (a long time ago) and I wasn't able to see the second ball take the spin like is shown in the video. It is what many of us think happens, but it's hard to see. If it worked like the video shows, you'd think you could see it with the naked eye, wouldn't you? <hr /></blockquote>
I think it is fairly visible with the "home eyes" of NV A.21 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/new/NVA-21.htm). At the end of the clip, I explain what to look for, and I think it is fairly clear when I show it.

Regards,
Dave

SpiderMan
01-10-2007, 07:40 AM
Were you satisified with the demo on the table last night (don't take this wrong, folks /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif)?

SpiderMan

dr_dave
01-10-2007, 08:00 AM
FYI,

In addition to HSV A.66 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-66.htm), HSV A.82 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-82.htm), HSV A.83 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-83.htm), and HSV A.84 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-84.htm) show the effect for various speeds and English.

Regards,
Dave

SpiderMan
01-10-2007, 08:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I was unsuccessful in attempts with my home camcorder...<hr /></blockquote>Were you successful with your home eyes? I've tried this before (a long time ago) and I wasn't able to see the second ball take the spin like is shown in the video. It is what many of us think happens, but it's hard to see. If it worked like the video shows, you'd think you could see it with the naked eye, wouldn't you? <hr /></blockquote>
I think it is fairly visible with the "home eyes" of NV A.21 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/new/NVA-21.htm). At the end of the clip, I explain what to look for, and I think it is fairly clear when I show it.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Dave,

The reason I prefer to reference your HSV A.66 is that it shows the spin transfer directly, rather than requiring interpretation of secondary effects.

Because it seems possible to make the shot of NV A.21 with or without spin transfer, doubters still feel inclined to debate cause and effect. In HSV A.66, there is nothing to observe but the collision. The OB is (obviously) at rest, then it visibly accepts spin from the CB. It doesn't leave much room for debating the presence of spin transfer, and it even allows a rough estimate of the transfer efficiency.

SpiderMan

dr_dave
01-10-2007, 09:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I was unsuccessful in attempts with my home camcorder...<hr /></blockquote>Were you successful with your home eyes? I've tried this before (a long time ago) and I wasn't able to see the second ball take the spin like is shown in the video. It is what many of us think happens, but it's hard to see. If it worked like the video shows, you'd think you could see it with the naked eye, wouldn't you? <hr /></blockquote>
I think it is fairly visible with the "home eyes" of NV A.21 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/new/NVA-21.htm). At the end of the clip, I explain what to look for, and I think it is fairly clear when I show it.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Dave,

The reason I prefer to reference your HSV A.66 is that it shows the spin transfer directly, rather than requiring interpretation of secondary effects.

Because it seems possible to make the shot of NV A.21 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/new/NVA-21.htm) with or without spin transfer, doubters still feel inclined to debate cause and effect. In HSV A.66 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-66.htm), there is nothing to observe but the collision. The OB is (obviously) at rest, then it visibly accepts spin from the CB. It doesn't leave much room for debating the presence of spin transfer, and it even allows a rough estimate of the transfer efficiency.<hr /></blockquote>Good point. I agree.

Dave