PDA

View Full Version : The "Pause" Again



Bassn7
01-22-2007, 11:02 AM
Quote from previous post: "The pause on the final backswing is to ensure that you eyes have shifted back to the target on the object ball before the final motion of the forward swing and follow through."

Doesn't this erase the muscle memory intent of the practice stokes, the speed and levelness of the delivery stroke? Just curious.

Scott Lee
01-22-2007, 11:14 AM
Bassn7...I must have missed that post/thread. Nonetheless, that is not the significant reason for the 'pause' at the end of the backswing, since you can change your focus to the target, before you begin the final backswing (as well as, at the pause at the end of the backswing...either is correct, but usually one "feels" more natural to the player). All good players 'pause' to some degree, at the end of the backswing, to allow a smooth transition from the backswing to the forward accelerated stroke.
For some players, ala Fisher, Corr, and Buddy Hall, the pause is more pronounced. For others (like myself), the pause is only momentary. The smooth transition is the key.

Scott Lee

Billy_Bob
01-22-2007, 11:23 AM
I always thought the reason for the pause was that you have your "backwards muscles pushing backwards" and your "forwards muscles pushing forwards". And if you don't pause, then there will be a moment in time where the different sets of muscles will be "fighting" each other???

So move arm backwards, stop/pause (turn off backwards muscles), *then* proceed forward.

dr_dave
01-22-2007, 11:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Quote from previous post: "The pause on the final backswing is to ensure that you eyes have shifted back to the target on the object ball before the final motion of the forward swing and follow through."

Doesn't this erase the muscle memory intent of the practice stokes, the speed and levelness of the delivery stroke? Just curious. <hr /></blockquote>
The main reason for a deliberate pause is to prevent you from rushing the transition from the backstroke to the forward stroke. Many people (especially beginners) have a jerky transition, which can create inconsistency.

With a stroke with no deliberate pause, the "forward" muscles actually start working during the backstroke as the cue stick is decelerated, so the main muscle transition occurs before the end of the back-swing.

FYI, I've summarized what many consider stroke best practices in my May '06 instructional article (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/2006/may06.pdf) and in a document available under "summaries" in the instructor and student resources section of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/index.html).

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
01-22-2007, 11:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Quote from previous post: "The pause on the final backswing is to ensure that you eyes have shifted back to the target on the object ball before the final motion of the forward swing and follow through."<hr /></blockquote>FYI, good answers to this and other questions concerning the stroke can be found under "set-pause-finish-freeze" under "stroke" in the threads summary section of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html).

Regards,
Dave

bradb
01-22-2007, 12:37 PM
Listen to the Doc or any instructor. The "pause" or "hold" is essential for proper control. As mentioned previously some top players are so smooth you don't notice it.
Follow this routine...straight back - hold - straight through. Allison Fisher's stroke is a great example of proper cue control. Brad

pooltchr
01-22-2007, 06:31 PM
You are correct. The triceps pull the arm backward, while the biceps pull it forward. These are two opposing muscle groups, so you don't want them fighting each other.
When I explain the reasoning to students, I use the example of backing a car out of the driveway. If you put it in drive while you are still rolling backward, the car will jerk. If you come to a full stop before putting it in drive, it is a much smoother transition. So if you don't put a pause at the end of the backstroke, your transmission might end up laying in the middle of the street. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif Oops, I might have gotten confused on that last line! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Steve

mantis
01-22-2007, 09:15 PM
I know that when I added a pause to my stroke, it increased the consistency with which I shot.

canadan
01-22-2007, 11:24 PM
last week I was playing with one of the citys greats. He gave some stroke tips and the pause was the hardest to get. But once I got it consitancy improved. Still have to work on doing it every time I shoot. Another good one was while practice, shoot with no warm up strokes. Power is off but your aim gets better when leaning over to shoot.Just aim and shoot. Thats easy right?

randyg
01-23-2007, 05:31 AM
"All Pool Players have to pause, the good ones do it with purpose!"....SPF=randyg

Qtec
01-23-2007, 09:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The main reason for a deliberate pause is to prevent you from rushing the transition from the backstroke to the forward stroke. <hr /></blockquote>

That might be a logical statement but its totally wrong.

All players make unconcious subtle adjustments on almost every shot. The slowing down / the pause gives a player more time to get the Q in the right position [ at the end of the backstroke] in order to send the Q straight thru the Qball to its target.

Q ..then again.......what do I know.

dr_dave
01-23-2007, 10:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>The main reason for a deliberate pause is to prevent you from rushing the transition from the backstroke to the forward stroke.<hr /></blockquote>That might be a logical statement but its totally wrong.<hr /></blockquote>Well, obviously I disagree ... but I respect your opinion.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>All players make unconcious subtle adjustments on almost every shot. The slowing down / the pause gives a player more time to get the Q in the right position [ at the end of the backstroke] in order to send the Q straight thru the Qball to its target.<hr /></blockquote>I think the pause before the final forward stroke is the worst possible place to make minor corrections in cue stick alignment (subconscious or not). All adjustments should be made in the initial set, warm-up strokes, and final set (see steps 1-3 in the stroke best practices document (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf)).

If other people have disagreements of recommended improvements for the stroke "best practices" document, please share them.

Regards,
Dave

Scott Lee
01-23-2007, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>
I think the pause before the final forward stroke is the worst possible place to make minor corrections in cue stick alignment (subconscious or not). All adjustments should be made in the initial set, warm-up strokes, and final set (see steps 1-3 in the stroke best practices document (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf)).


Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Omigod...Hell must be freezing over! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I actually agree with this Dave. Well put!

dr_dave
01-23-2007, 10:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>
I think the pause before the final forward stroke is the worst possible place to make minor corrections in cue stick alignment (subconscious or not). All adjustments should be made in the initial set, warm-up strokes, and final set (see steps 1-3 in the stroke best practices document (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf)).


Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Omigod...Hell must be freezing over! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I actually agree with this Dave. Well put! <hr /></blockquote>
Thank you Scott. I appreciate that.

Maybe this is the start of a whole new harmonious relationship built on love and peace. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Cheers,
Dave

PS: Even though we sometimes disagree, I always look forward to reading your posts. I appreciate your contributions.

bradb
01-23-2007, 10:41 AM
Every statement cited above is correct on the reasons for the pause...except the one about making adjustments. By the time you pull back for the final stroke you should be dialed in and know you are on line. However there is some truth even to that observation. During the pause, which is slight, I reaffirm my stroke and then excecute it with conviction, but there is NO adjustment. If anyone makes an adjustment here its indecison and it almost always results in a miss. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Stretch
01-23-2007, 11:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> Every statement cited above is correct on the reasons for the pause...except the one about making adjustments. By the time you pull back for the final stroke you should be dialed in and know you are on line. However there is some truth even to that observation. During the pause, which is slight, I reaffirm my stroke and then excecute it with conviction, but there is NO adjustment. If anyone makes an adjustment here its indecison and it almost always results in a miss. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Beware anyone putting a noticable pause at the end of thier back swing where there was none before. It will absolutely screw your timeing and rythm, weight control EVERYTHING! Haveing said that, the benefits are many. Just wanted to put that in as one who struggled with this, put it into compation too soon and got KILLED. Any change like this has to be done slowely over time untill it is second nature before any benefits can be seen. Most people revert back to thier own stroke, the one that has been ingrained over years when the heat is on. All i'm saying is be prepaired to work your butt off getting something like this adapted to your game. Like any noticable stroke change, your going to go down before you pick it up.

Most people draw thier cue back way too fast, especially on hard shots. If you think about it, the end of your back stroke is the start of your exicution stroke. the slightest twitch on snapping it back will effect your exicution stroke. To ensure that defined pause and easy transition SLOW DOWN YOUR BACK SWING. This alone is gold. Try it and you will see. St.

dr_dave
01-23-2007, 12:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> Every statement cited above is correct on the reasons for the pause...except the one about making adjustments. By the time you pull back for the final stroke you should be dialed in and know you are on line. However there is some truth even to that observation. During the pause, which is slight, I reaffirm my stroke and then excecute it with conviction, but there is NO adjustment. If anyone makes an adjustment here its indecison and it almost always results in a miss. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Beware anyone putting a noticable pause at the end of thier back swing where there was none before. It will absolutely screw your timeing and rythm, weight control EVERYTHING! Haveing said that, the benefits are many. Just wanted to put that in as one who struggled with this, put it into compation too soon and got KILLED. Any change like this has to be done slowely over time untill it is second nature before any benefits can be seen. Most people revert back to thier own stroke, the one that has been ingrained over years when the heat is on. All i'm saying is be prepaired to work your butt off getting something like this adapted to your game. Like any noticable stroke change, your going to go down before you pick it up.

Most people draw thier cue back way too fast, especially on hard shots. If you think about it, the end of your back stroke is the start of your exicution stroke. the slightest twitch on snapping it back will effect your exicution stroke. To ensure that defined pause and easy transition SLOW DOWN YOUR BACK SWING. This alone is gold. Try it and you will see. St. <hr /></blockquote>
Great post, Stretch. Those are good additions to the discussion.

Dave

Fran Crimi
01-23-2007, 12:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Quote from previous post: "The pause on the final backswing is to ensure that you eyes have shifted back to the target on the object ball before the final motion of the forward swing and follow through."

Doesn't this erase the muscle memory intent of the practice stokes, the speed and levelness of the delivery stroke? Just curious. <hr /></blockquote>

"Ensure" is that drink that tastes like chalk. I think that poster meant 'insure.' Yes, I think that's one legitimate and important reason for the pause. Let's review the reasons:

1. Vision: Most players will either shift their eyes to the ob either just before the final back stroke or during the final backstroke. A quick back stroke is a distraction. If you are already focused on the ob, it's easy to lose your sense of what you're looking at with the distraction of the quick backstroke.

If you switch your vision during the backstroke, it's even more of a distraction to your vision if you move too quickly.

For example: Stand upright and still, facing an object on a wall. Look at that object and bring your arm back very slowly, then do it quickly. You'll find that it was easier to stay focused on the object while your arm was moving back slower rather than faster. Players who have difficulty moving their arm back slowly may prefer a longer pause to reestablish their focus after the distraction of the quick movement.

2. Timing, timing, timing. In order for a perfectly timed forward stroke to occur, there must be a constant acceleration starting with the first motion of the forward stroke. That is easiest accomplished when there is a slight 'at rest' at the end of the backstroke. Some players feel the need to pause longer than others. I do not find longer pauses to be especially more beneficial other than it insures that the shooter is not stroking with any residual movement from the back stroke that might affect the constant acceleration of the forward motion and for the reason I stated above regarding vision. Quick backstrokes have been the culprits of many poke strokes, where the player's maximum acceleration occurs too soon during the forward motion.

Fran

Chopstick
01-23-2007, 12:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> I think the pause before the final forward stroke is the worst possible place to make minor corrections in cue stick alignment (subconscious or not). All adjustments should be made in the initial set, warm-up strokes, and final set (see steps 1-3 in the stroke best practices document (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf)).

If other people have disagreements of recommended improvements for the stroke "best practices" document, please share them.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

I do have something to consider along that line. I went to Buddy Hall to take a lesson specifically on stroke. His appraoch was a little different. There are different variations that can be applied but he had me practice this example. On the first practice stroke they eyes are focused on the object ball. On the second practice stroke the eyes are focused on the cue ball. On the third stroke, pause and "really zoom in and focus on the object ball" then release the stroke. He never mentioned using the pause for anything other than a que to bring your concentration on the object ball to it's pinpoint maximum.

I think of it like an archer back the arrow, pausing to fix the target, and releasing. Another point I picked up from Mike Seigel is the position of the eyes. Many times when you move your eyes back and forth on the final stroke, you will get caught with your eyes in between the cueball and the object ball. They would be in the process of moving from the cue ball to the object ball when the stroke was released and not be focused properly on wither one. Firmly fixing the eyes on one or the other during each stroke eliminates this problem.

And last, something from Zen. "If the eyes are moving the mind is moving." I believe that having the eyes still, on the object ball will produce more consistent results.

Qtec
01-23-2007, 12:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think the pause before the final forward stroke is the worst possible place to make minor corrections in cue stick alignment (subconscious or not). <hr /></blockquote>

Imagine you have done your warm-up strokes, you take the Q back for the final time and pause. You realise that the Q is in the wrong position [ a few mm out] and you cannot send the Q on the desired line. What do you do?
Hit it anyway?
[ Stopping is not an option, you are now committed to playing the shot.]

Golf players are aware of the position of the club head when it is behind their back! They know when the back swing is wrong and compensate accordingly.

A pause may facilitate a smooth acceleration but I would argue that the pause is more incidental [ although essential for a good stroke] than instrumental to making the shot- which ultimately is what its all about.

Q........

The one thing I,ve noticed about all the techie /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif threads is that the maths seem to assume a perfect stroke!

Stretch
01-23-2007, 01:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Quote from previous post: "The pause on the final backswing is to ensure that you eyes have shifted back to the target on the object ball before the final motion of the forward swing and follow through."

Doesn't this erase the muscle memory intent of the practice stokes, the speed and levelness of the delivery stroke? Just curious. <hr /></blockquote>

"Ensure" is that drink that tastes like chalk. I think that poster meant 'insure.' Yes, I think that's one legitimate and important reason for the pause. Let's review the reasons:

1. Vision: Most players will either shift their eyes to the ob either just before the final back stroke or during the final backstroke. A quick back stroke is a distraction. If you are already focused on the ob, it's easy to lose your sense of what you're looking at with the distraction of the quick backstroke.

If you switch your vision during the backstroke, it's even more of a distraction to your vision if you move too quickly.

For example: Stand upright and still, facing an object on a wall. Look at that object and bring your arm back very slowly, then do it quickly. You'll find that it was easier to stay focused on the object while your arm was moving back slower rather than faster. Players who have difficulty moving their arm back slowly may prefer a longer pause to reestablish their focus after the distraction of the quick movement.

2. Timing, timing, timing. In order for a perfectly timed forward stroke to occur, there must be a constant acceleration starting with the first motion of the forward stroke. That is easiest accomplished when there is a slight 'at rest' at the end of the backstroke. Some players feel the need to pause longer than others. I do not find longer pauses to be especially more beneficial other than it insures that the shooter is not stroking with any residual movement from the back stroke that might affect the constant acceleration of the forward motion and for the reason I stated above regarding vision. Quick backstrokes have been the culprits of many poke strokes, where the player's maximum acceleration occurs too soon during the forward motion.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

Fran, eloquent as ever and right on target! Lord how i cursed that darn pause at first but you talked me threw my problems as only you know how. A million thankyou's would never be enough. My shot is FEARED now and i don't mean by me! lol You rock Sis and i still hang on your every word.

Listen up folks! St.

dr_dave
01-23-2007, 01:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>I think the pause before the final forward stroke is the worst possible place to make minor corrections in cue stick alignment (subconscious or not).<hr /></blockquote>Imagine you have done your warm-up strokes, you take the Q back for the final time and pause. You realise that the Q is in the wrong position [ a few mm out] and you cannot send the Q on the desired line. What do you do?<hr /></blockquote>Start over with step 1 of the stroke "best practices" routine (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/resources/stroke_best_practices.pdf). I don't want any uncertainty whatsoever during that final stroke ... I want only confidence and focus.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Hit it anyway?<hr /></blockquote>No.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Stopping is not an option, you are now committed to playing the shot.<hr /></blockquote>I disagree, unless one is on a shot clock.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>A pause may facilitate a smooth acceleration but I would argue that the pause is more incidental [ although essential for a good stroke] than instrumental to making the shot- which ultimately is what its all about.<hr /></blockquote>For some, this might be true; but for many, a deliberate pause can result in significant improvement in stroke consistency.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>The one thing I,ve noticed about all the techie /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif threads is that the maths seem to assume a perfect stroke!<hr /></blockquote>Would you call this a techie thread? I wouldn't. Regardless, you are right ... when analyzing the physics of throw, squirt, swerve, spin transfer, rebound angle, etc., techies usually assume the shooter has good aim and a good stroke. An exception is if the techies are analyzing and quantifying the effects of stroke inconsistencies. Then the stroke would be the central focus of the analysis.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
01-23-2007, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Quote from previous post: "The pause on the final backswing is to ensure that you eyes have shifted back to the target on the object ball before the final motion of the forward swing and follow through."

Doesn't this erase the muscle memory intent of the practice stokes, the speed and levelness of the delivery stroke? Just curious.<hr /></blockquote>"Ensure" is that drink that tastes like chalk. I think that poster meant 'insure.'<hr /></blockquote>Actually, "ensure" is being used properly (see the definition in a dictionary or type "define: ensure" in Google). "insure" can be misread because it can imply: "purchase an insurance policy."

Doesn't the English language suck?
Dave

Fran Crimi
01-23-2007, 01:56 PM
Yes, I'm very familliar with the word 'ensure,' Dave.


As per Websters:
"INSURE , ASSURE , SECURE mean to make a thing or person sure. ENSURE , INSURE , and ASSURE are interchangeable in many contexts where they indicate the making certain or inevitable of an outcome, but INSURE sometimes stresses the taking of necessary measures beforehand, and ASSURE distinctively implies the removal of doubt and suspense from a person's mind. SECURE implies action taken to guard against attack or loss."

I still prefer the use of the word 'insure' in that particular context, and I'm pretty sure that so would my grammer school English teacher. I'm not in the least concerned with any confusion with 'insure' as in 'car insurance'.

Oh, and 'Ensure' is still a drink.

Fran

dr_dave
01-23-2007, 02:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> Yes, I'm very familliar with the word 'ensure,' Dave.

As per Websters:
"INSURE , ASSURE , SECURE mean to make a thing or person sure. ENSURE , INSURE , and ASSURE are interchangeable in many contexts where they indicate the making certain or inevitable of an outcome, but INSURE sometimes stresses the taking of necessary measures beforehand, and ASSURE distinctively implies the removal of doubt and suspense from a person's mind. SECURE implies action taken to guard against attack or loss."

I still prefer the use of the word 'insure' in that particular context, and I'm pretty sure that so would my grammer school English teacher. I'm not in the least concerned with any confusion with 'insure' as in 'car insurance'.

Oh, and 'Ensure' is still a drink.<hr /></blockquote>If we all consumed more of such drinks, maybe we would be healthier and not need to insure ourselves for as much medical coverage. Or maybe snake oil is better? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

My Webster's lists the following for the 1st definition of insure:
"to give, take, or procure insurance on of for"

Doesn't the English language suck?

Dave

dr_dave
01-23-2007, 02:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>Oh, and 'Ensure' is still a drink.<hr /></blockquote>Do you know why the company chose that name? ... to make people think it will help them ensure good health. Those marketing people should insure themselves to protect against false advertising claims.

Regards,
Dave /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Fran Crimi
01-23-2007, 03:00 PM
Yup. The English language can be very tricky, not to mention confusing. I think the key with the word 'insure' is that it denotes having taken action, which really is what buying insurance is, or what pausing at the back of your backswing is. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Either way, that Ensure drink needs to taste a whole lot better before I start partaking.

One of the most confusing aspects of our language is the growing acceptance of frequent use. People say stuff a lot out of lack of education and the next thing you know, it's in the dictionary as a frequently used word or term.

Ugh. So, what did I do all that studying for? (Thou must not end a sentence in a preposition.)


Fran

bradb
01-23-2007, 03:14 PM
I would think it could a problem to change something that you are doing right but maybe its different then other players, for instance changing the hold or pause. But it doesn't hurt to try a few different things to continually improve. I discovered I was lifting my head just after the shot so I tried staying down the whole time and my game did improve. It took a lot of practise to lock it in as old habits die hard but It finally kicked in.
As to coming out of a pause that would be like abandoning a golf swing at the top, only Tiger Woods can do that. But a player shouldn't be in that situation anyway. We've all seen some players who take 10 or 12 practice strokes on a difficult shot, whatever it takes... its best to be sure!

Fran Crimi
01-23-2007, 05:50 PM
Well, hell.

I just yelled until I was convinced you heard me. I'm good at that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You've always had a killer stroke. I'm thrilled to see that you now believe it.

Love,
Fran

slim
01-23-2007, 07:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bassn7:</font><hr> Quote from previous post: "The pause on the final backswing is to ensure that you eyes have shifted back to the target on the object ball before the final motion of the forward swing and follow through."

Doesn't this erase the muscle memory intent of the practice stokes, the speed and levelness of the delivery stroke? Just curious. <hr /></blockquote>

With the set/pause/finish, I start looking forward on the set and all the way through the shot. The pause is the 'top of your swing' and acceleration while hitting throuh the cue ball is your 'throwing motion'.
This scenario is identical to a pro baseball pitcher movement.
Pause is different for every player, and your pause will evolve into an effortless transition as you fall into dead stroke.
Cisero Murphy had the worlds longest pause, so there is no real "answer" you have to develop it with practice and results.
As for muscle memory, by seeing the shot happening, this programs the mind with your results.

Qtec
01-24-2007, 04:28 AM
Quote Qtec:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stopping is not an option, you are now committed to playing the shot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I disagree, unless one is on a shot clock.


<font color="blue"> You misunderstand Dave.
Lets say you have lined up the shot to your satisfaction and done your warm ups . You are now ready to shoot.
You now Set Pause Finish Freeze.
If you are committed to playing the shot %100, how can you stop in the middle of this process?
ie how can you make a concious decision to abort when your concentration should be elsewhere? I can't remember the last time I saw a Pro abort on the final stroke at the end of the backswing.[ or a golfer, tennis player etc]

I,m not knocking the Pause- the pause is good- but IMO there could be a more practical/important reason why all good players have a smooth transition from back swing to forward swing. [ ie, something to do with making balls /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif rather than just good phyisics /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Just joking Dave /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif]
</font color>

Q

qstroker2004
01-24-2007, 06:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I always thought the reason for the pause was that you have your "backwards muscles pushing backwards" and your "forwards muscles pushing forwards". And if you don't pause, then there will be a moment in time where the different sets of muscles will be "fighting" each other???

So move arm backwards, stop/pause (turn off backwards muscles), *then* proceed forward.<hr /></blockquote>

I think a pause, or at least as smooth transition is important, but I really wonder why. I've always figured it had something to do with the muscles, but I don't really know. I mean, it doesn't seem to me that you can "engage" the forward muscles at the same time the backward muscles are moving. Instead, I have to think Fran has it right. If go from back to forward quickly, your arm/body is likely to move from the change in momentum. If you do it slowly, then there is less disturbance. Any doctors in the room?

dwhite

dr_dave
01-24-2007, 09:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stopping is not an option, you are now committed to playing the shot.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>I disagree, unless one is on a shot clock.<hr /></blockquote>You misunderstand Dave.
Lets say you have lined up the shot to your satisfaction and done your warm ups . You are now ready to shoot.
You now Set Pause Finish Freeze.
If you are committed to playing the shot %100, how can you stop in the middle of this process?
ie how can you make a concious decision to abort when your concentration should be elsewhere? I can't remember the last time I saw a Pro abort on the final stroke at the end of the backswing.[ or a golfer, tennis player etc]<hr /></blockquote>Thank you for explaining this point further.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>I,m not knocking the Pause- the pause is good- but IMO there could be a more practical/important reason why all good players have a smooth transition from back swing to forward swing. [ ie, something to do with making balls /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif rather than just good phyisics /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Just joking Dave /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif]<hr /></blockquote>For the great players that have a deliberate pause (e.g., Allison Fisher, Buddy Hall), which can be excruciatingly long in some people's opinion, would you describe their stroke as having a "smooth transition?" I guess you can still think of it that way; but to me, a deliberate "pause" is there to "separate" the forward swing from the back-swing, to help prevent a poor "transition."

Regards,
Dave

bradb
01-24-2007, 10:27 AM
Allison's stroke is pronounced, but I mentioned it as a good example to observe as its easier to notice in her stroke. Even though she holds it longer its still smooth. She is a classically trained snooker player and thats how a lot in England play. One things for sure, Allison has been number one in the world after coming over from England and swithching games so she must be doing something right. Brad

dr_dave
01-24-2007, 10:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bradb:</font><hr> Allison's stroke is pronounced, but I mentioned it as a good example to observe as its easier to notice in her stroke. Even though she holds it longer its still smooth. She is a classically trained snooker player and thats how a lot in England play. One things for sure, Allison has been number one in the world after coming over from England and swithching games so she must be doing something right. Brad <hr /></blockquote>
Amen!

Dave