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Qtec
01-23-2007, 02:36 AM
How low can you go?

There is nothing like a Presidential Election to bring out the worst in the GOP.......and look who is helping them spread their lies!
I challenge ANYONE to watch this and not be disgusted. This is gutter journalisim of the first order. Here is the segment from Fox 'News'!!? /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif [ have a puke bucket handy] Notice how many times they they say the phrase, ".......a Muslim.


the video (http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Fox_smears_Sen._Obama_0119.html)

Now watch it again and substitute the words "a Muslim" for "a Jew"!!!........ [Close your eyes and and you could be listening to 1937 Nazi news radio!]

Imagine if Obama was Jewish. Would they be allowed to make such an attack?????
IMO its balatantly racist.

[ QUOTE ]
CNN debunks false report about Obama


JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) -- Allegations that Sen. Barack Obama was educated in a radical Muslim school known as a "madrassa" are not accurate, according to CNN reporting.

Insight Magazine, which is owned by the same company as The Washington Times, <font color="blue"> ie Rev Moon! </font color> reported on its Web site last week that associates of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-New York, had unearthed information the Illinois Democrat and likely presidential candidate attended a Muslim religious school known for teaching the most fundamentalist form of Islam.

Obama lived in Indonesia as a child, from 1967 to 1971, with his mother and stepfather and has acknowledged attending a Muslim school, but an aide said it was not a madrassa. (Watch video of Obama's school)

Insight attributed the information in its article to an unnamed source, who said it was discovered by "researchers connected to Senator Clinton." A spokesman for Clinton, who is also weighing a White House bid, denied that the campaign was the source of the Obama claim.

He called the story "an obvious right-wing hit job."

Insight stood by its story in a response posted on its Web site Monday afternoon.

The Insight article was cited several times Friday on Fox News and was also referenced by the New York Post, The Glenn Beck program on CNN Headline News and a number of political blogs.

School not a madrassa
But reporting by CNN in Jakarta, Indonesia and Washington, D.C., shows the allegations that Obama attended a madrassa to be false. CNN dispatched Senior International Correspondent John Vause to Jakarta to investigate.

He visited the Basuki school, which Obama attended from 1969 to 1971.

"This is a public school. We don't focus on religion," Hardi Priyono, deputy headmaster of the Basuki school, told Vause. "In our daily lives, we try to respect religion, but we don't give preferential treatment."

Vause reported he saw boys and girls dressed in neat school uniforms playing outside the school, while teachers were dressed in Western-style clothes.

The Obama aide described Fox News' broadcasting of the Insight story "appallingly irresponsible."

Fox News executive Bill Shine told CNN "Reliable Sources" anchor Howard Kurtz that some of the network's hosts were simply expressing their opinions and repeatedly cited Insight as the source of the allegations.



Obama has noted in his two books, "Dreams From My Father" and "The Audacity of Hope," that he spent two years in a Muslim school and another two years in a Catholic school while living in Indonesia from age 6 to 10.
<hr /></blockquote>





Q.......IMO, the GOP would actually prefer Clinton in a head to head race. They will swiftboat her like they did Kerry.

moblsv
01-23-2007, 07:03 AM
I am tired of the liberals in Speak Out who complain about the media. Republicans started Fox News with our own money. We bought major newspapers, and we control talk radio. We set the agenda for the network news. Liberals have no voice, and we can quickly make a liberal look kooky if he or she gets too feisty. We did it all with our own money. It is called “capitalism,” and it works. If you liberals really want a voice, move to France or Canada, or buy your own media. But, you liberals are too busy hugging trees and saving owls to stop our agenda. Pretty soon, we will stamp out all liberal voices as dangerous and un-American. Maybe confinement to reservations after that happens would be a nice end to liberalism.

Gayle in MD
01-23-2007, 08:18 AM
Tell ya the truth, I think that Fox is hanging themselves. Americans aren't THAT dumb, well, only roughly 30% are, lol.

By election time, even Fox won't be able to fly their BS. Most people in this country describe themselves as moderates, anyway. There are more Independents than Dems or Repubs. Fox is a joke. I hope Obama sues them. Fox is basically a channel for nutty hawk neocons who hate liberals and Democrats. Nice group! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gayle in md.

Chopstick
01-23-2007, 08:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> How low can you go?

There is nothing like a Presidential Election to bring out the worst in the GOP.......and look who is helping them spread their lies!
<font color="blue">The GOP did not do this. Hillary did. </font color>

I challenge ANYONE to watch this and not be disgusted.
<font color="blue">Can't argue with you there. That morning crew has always been a bunch of pinheads, but sometimes they have nice women to look at. Nothing else to offer though. </font color>


CNN debunks false report about Obama
<font color="blue">O'Reilly already debunked it last week. Someone tried to bring it up on his show and he stopped them and corrected them saying that Obama did not attend a madrassa and went on the site the correct story. I was watching the show when he said it.

Also, in an open discussion on his show two months ago, they were talking about the fact that Obama had attended a Muslim school (because it is in his book) and they predicted that Hillary would try to smear him with it.</font color>

The Obama aide described Fox News' broadcasting of the Insight story "appallingly irresponsible."

<font color="blue">It wasn't irresponsible. It was outright stupid. It directly contradicts what their own network has already published. Don't they watch their own shows? </font color>

Obama has noted in his two books, "Dreams From My Father" and "The Audacity of Hope," that he spent two years in a Muslim school and another two years in a Catholic school while living in Indonesia from age 6 to 10.
<hr /></blockquote>

Q.......IMO, the GOP would actually prefer Clinton in a head to head race. They will swiftboat her like they did Kerry.
<hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">Actually Hillary has been outed so many times there is not much left to say. </font color>

Gayle in MD
01-23-2007, 09:56 AM
Hi Chop,
I'm wondering why you think Senator Clinton is responsible. The way they hate her on Fox, wouldn't it be more likely that Fox set her up to be the supposed culprit? With her huge poll numbers, she'd be a fool to throw it all away by being involved in something like this, wouldn't you think? I don't think she's a dumb person, at all. Any proof around that she had anything to do with this?

My take has been that Obama would hook up with her as her VP. What a pair that would be. I'm sure they've both thought about that. Kind of obvious, when you think of it, and they've always been very mutually complimentary.

Oh, and could you tell me when Hilliary has been outed? I know of no proof that she has ever don anything reprehensable, or illegal. Only accused of manufactured smut, usually manufactured by the right, as far as I know.

Gayle in Md.

Qtec
01-23-2007, 09:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]

The GOP did not do this. Hillary did.
<hr /></blockquote>

You don't really believe that ChopS. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The Dems are too weak to come up with something so distastfull as this.
The fact that not one American is outraged at this shows how much the mood/American values have changed in 7 years.
Lets not forget that this is not some obscure rightwing blog spouting crap but a major US News network which some folks [ who don't have access to the web] still see as a reliable source of info.

Somewhere in the WH........Karl Rove,
" Here's the plan. Make $hit up, give it to Fox, blame it on the Dems.........go to it"

Next instalment: Hillary eats worms and pledges herself to Satan at 3rd birthday party!
Didn't you just know it? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

pooltchr
01-23-2007, 12:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Oh, and could you tell me when Hilliary has been outed? I know of no proof that she has ever don anything reprehensable, or illegal. Only accused of manufactured smut, usually manufactured by the right, as far as I know.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Well, we could start with her denial of the existance of certain documents that had been subpoened...documents which later turned up in the living quarters of the white house.

Come on, Gayle. Even you have to know that Ms Clinton is quite capable of lying for her own political purposes. Oh, I forgot...lying for the right reasons is ok in some people's opinion. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve

Deeman3
01-23-2007, 01:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> My take has been that Obama would hook up with her as her VP. What a pair that would be.Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> I would agree with you but Hillary would never agree to not be on top. Just Kidding...

They would make a good team but both being very far left would leave s lot of the moderate Democrats not wanting to participate, don't you think. Hilary, as well as Obama will probably need a moderate from a different region to give balance to the ticket. </font color>

DeeMan

Bobbyrx
01-23-2007, 05:02 PM
How low indeed!!!! I didn't think Fox news could get any lower. What shameful smear tactics. I watched the video and could not believe it...to actually go on national television and say that Barack Obama was a member of the Church of Christ. Have they no shame?????

Gayle in MD
01-24-2007, 05:48 AM
Steve,
Why do you continue this BS? For the last time. IMO, to judge a man's lie about his private personal sex life, by the same measure as judging an entire Administration's lies to our country to build a case for going to war, occupying a country which hadn't attacked us, was no threat to us, and using fear to terrify a devastated population of Americans who were already in shock and mourning over being attacked, was the worst lie I have ever witnessed in my lifetime. It does not even belong in the same discussion with Clinton's lie. You don't agree, but believe me, you are way off in right field. Hundreds of thousands of people have suffered, and died as a result of George Bush's lies. Again, I ask you, either tell me who suffered due to Clinton's lie, or drop the on-going references in which you twist my meaning over and over again. I have never said lies, in general, are good. But, yes, I do believe that some lies are told with good intentions. I have, for example, an elderly aunt and former beauty in her youth, whom I take to lunch every month. At some point during lunch, she'll always ask me, "Do I have too much make up on?" To which I always reply, "You look marvelous!" The truth is, she thinks she looks better with all that make up, and I'd prefer that she continues to think it makes a difference. If you think every single lie is even, then all I can say is your judgement about lies equals your judgment about Presidential candidates.

Nuff said.

Gayle in Md....hopes Steve can stop harping on every lie ever told by a Democrat, and focuss on the present on-going lies being told today by Bush, which continue to result in death and destruction daily!

"We are winning the war in Iraq" George Bush, six months ago.

"General Abasaid, in your opinion, are we winning the war in Iraq?

"NO" Abasaid, several months later.

"Saddam has purchased Yellow cake from Niger." Bush

"Saddam has aluminumn tubes which can only be for the purpose of...."

"Saddam has biological weapons" Bush

"There is no doubt, Saddam has weapons of mass destruction." Cheney

"Senator, Before 9/11, no one ever thought about people flying airplanes into buildings." Rice

"We cannot afford to wait for the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud" Bush

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewenski." Bill Clinton, with Hillary and Chelsey watching from the side lines.

Gayle in MD
01-24-2007, 06:16 AM
Hi Dee,
Tell you the truth, I really don't have a good update of where they stand on the all the present issues. They don't seem far left to me, though. Most Americans are against escalating the war, for abortion, for swift action on global warming, for polution controls, energy independence, saving social security, a cleaner environment, against Nation Building, Clinton and Obama seem to be rather moderate/centrist to me. I don't usually decide for whom I will vote, until after the debates. I think the issue of illegal aliens will hurt the Democrats some. Most of us want to see our immigration laws implemented. This issued could prove to create some uexpected results.

The man I really hoped would run, Mark Warner, former Governor of Virginia, backed out. As of today, my favorite, Biden, isn't very high in the polls. I've always liked Joe for his straight talk. He never dodges a question, and seems to be well informed on all the issues, and a moderate. My choice at present would be Biden, with either Murtha, Feinstein, Hoyer, Clinton, or Obama as his running mate. That could change though, and probably won't happen anyway. Overall, I'd like to see some unexpected but experienced and untainted candidate turn up. I love this new Senator from Virginia, too! Name escapes me at the moment...senior moment. He was great last night on the follow up to Bush's State Of The Union Speech, but then if you have someone new, you have the problem of little experience. I'm very impressed with him, but he needs more experience. Obama, IMO, doesn't have enough experience. We don't need another four years of that! Clinton is brilliant, and experienced, and seeing a woman in the presidency is very appealing to me, but I need to get a deeper understanding of her present platform. I also like Gordon Smith. Who knows. It's too soon for me to say. All in all though, nothing would please me more than to see Nancy Pelosi as the next president, before the 08 elections ever happen! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in Md.

moblsv
01-24-2007, 07:40 AM
cnn story on this
http://www.youtube.com/v/S-kPCCog0BY

Deeman3
01-24-2007, 08:59 AM
Gayle,

I agree as the issues are discussed more, their positions will become clearer. The Democratic side is so packed and I think there may be several others join in later. Maybe no one with the possibility of a win but the crowded field may give us some surprises next year. Hillary still has the upper hand but will need to do well in the early primaries and not have a "foot in the mouth" moment to maintain her lead. She si pretty cagy about what she commits to but will be drawn out more as the cross fire begins. I do like Obama, as I said earlier, but everyone will exploit his inexperience which I also said is a selling point for me.

With Clinton and Bush beiong elected with almost "Draft Dodger" status, lack of military service will not harm most this time around. Of the Democrats, only Dennis K. looks like a "throw away" guy. I nearly busted a gut last night when he asked for Bush's autograph and then circled around to get a second one. Not very presidential. Hillary looked like she was comfortable watching the show while Nancy couoldn't make up her mind to applaud or not. I thought the Democratic response was o.k. but still lacking a winning plan for Iraq. I think Bush will have to perform in 45-60 days or they will have to staret packing the troops and handing over government to Iran and Syria. The next 45 days need to be an all out effort to crush the insurgents, if not we are indeed through and can bunker in here for a while.

I think McCain is losing his edge in the bid from the Republican side and Rudy will have a hard time convincing the right he will be the man. However, if Hillary gets the nod, the right will run after him. The Democrats know the the right has a lot of ammo to play against Hillary but will save it until the general election to not let someone else get the Democratic slot. That may work unless the other Democratic candidates spring the info first. I've heard a few say Obama's drug use will be a factor. I don't agree. 90% of the planet has tried drugs and it's just not a disqualifer anymore and should not be. His major problem will be in not over defining himself with every issue and becoming a Bill Clinton type who can satisfy everyone. Bill was probably the only man on the planet smart enough to do that.

Joe Biden would be the best choice for the party and for the general election but the Clinton machine will not let that happen. Biden will not get down in the mud like hillary will. I think all your V.P. choices are too liberal except Murtha if you have a liberal main candidate. None of the Democratic candidates will take any action against illegal immigration, not a chance. The Democracs will play to them as the Republicans will on moral issues.

It may be an intetesting two years.

DeeMan

Qtec
01-24-2007, 07:17 PM
Brilliant. Thanks M.

IMO, Fox once again prostituted itself for the RNC. [ Even the Fox presenters looked uncomfortable!] The fact that they are all good Christians didn't seem to stop them from repeating what they obviously knew to be lies.
IMO there is a difference between news and gossip.

Q.....

Qtec
01-24-2007, 07:36 PM
So Obama is a Christain and they mentioned it ONCE. How many times did they mention the word MUSLIM?
This whole story is based on what he was suppossed to have done when he was SIX YEARS OLD!!!!!!............for cripes sake! /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Fox implied that he was trying to hide his Muslim connection! Pretty difficult to do what your name is Barak Hussein Obama!? LMAO
Its like Paddy Murphy trying to deny he has any connection to Ireland! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Bobbyrx
01-24-2007, 09:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> IMO there is a difference between news and gossip.

Q..... <hr /></blockquote>

So news would be CNN and Eason Jordan holding back stories of Saddam's atrocities so they wouldn't get kicked out of Iraq or CBS and Dan Rather's fair and balanced reporting or NBC and the Today show interviewing Kitty Kelley about her wonderful new book talking about Bush doing coke at Camp David among other wonderful "facts" just before the election. I missed their interview of the Swift Boat sailors....oh they didn't...well I'm sure they had their reasons. The NY Times printing classified info they were asked not to (why should they have to be?) on and on ad nauseam..... it's not even close

Bobbyrx
01-24-2007, 09:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> So Obama is a Christain and they mentioned it ONCE. How many times did they mention the word MUSLIM? <font color="blue"> what does it matter how many times...the Muslims are not the problem its the Christians remember </font color>
This whole story is based on what he was suppossed to have done when he was SIX YEARS OLD!!!!!!............for cripes sake! /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Fox implied that he was trying to hide his Muslim connection! Pretty difficult to do what your name is Barak Hussein Obama!? LMAO
Its like Paddy Murphy trying to deny he has any connection to Ireland! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> and it was Hillary's campaign that leaked the story</font color>

nAz
01-25-2007, 12:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr>

<font color="blue"> and it was Hillary's campaign that leaked the story</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

I have not been paying too much attention to this story, but i am curious is there any real or tangible proof that Sen. Hilliary Clinton leaked this already known story, or is everyone now blaming Hillary becuase novak and hannity have said its true over and over again?


oh BTW Obama has confessed that while he was in college used pot, alcohol and a little cocaine when he could afford it.

Chopstick
01-25-2007, 08:26 AM
http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/square-large-redefeat.gif

Chopstick
01-25-2007, 08:29 AM
<font color="blue"> Here's one for you Deeman. </font color>


http://www.thoseshirts.com/images/rect-diversitybk.jpg

Qtec
01-25-2007, 08:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr>

<font color="blue"> and it was Hillary's campaign that leaked the story</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

I have not been paying too much attention to this story, but i am curious is there any real or tangible proof that Sen. Hilliary Clinton leaked this already known story, or is everyone now blaming Hillary because novak and hannity have said its true over and over again?
<font color="blue"> nAz, if there was any proof we would have heard it by now. The Dems should say , "
SO WHAT!
Lets say he did attend a Madrassa when he was 6 yrs old until he was 8. What are you trying to say? That he is brainwashed and an enemy of the US?
Even if he is a Muslim! Since when do we in the USA DISCRIMINATE on basis of religion?
When you were 6, did YOU decide what school you would go to or what religion you would be taught?</font color>


oh BTW Obama has confessed that while he was in college used pot, alcohol and a little cocaine when he could afford it. <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> OMG. A NORMAL human being!!!!!!!!!!!..or at least an honest one.
</font color>

Q

Deeman3
01-25-2007, 09:26 AM
Chopstick,

Thanks. I'll be printing the shirt in a few minutes!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DeeMan

hondo
01-25-2007, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bobbyrx:</font><hr> How low indeed!!!! I didn't think Fox news could get any lower. What shameful smear tactics. I watched the video and could not believe it...to actually go on national television and say that Barack Obama was a member of the Church of Christ. Have they no shame????? <hr /></blockquote>

He's a member of Church of Christ? That does it; I'm voting
for Mrs. Clinton.

hondo
01-25-2007, 11:08 AM
I snorted coke a couple of times. I didn't take it to
get high; I just like the smell.

Gayle in MD
01-25-2007, 01:29 PM
No, there isn't. Just more Fox BS. However, there's a lot more proof coming out that Cheney was behind leaking Valarie Plame's identity, and that Scooter Libby was the scape goat they used to protect Cheney and Rove. Oh, and BTW, Valarie, unlike reports from Fox News, was a covert CIA Operative and the worst kind of agent to have had her identy leaked because she was a NOC. Others in foreign countries were subject to their identies being revealed, also, once her identy was leaked, and being killed. The prosecutor wrote in his own statements that she was a Secret CIA Operative, and that after interviewing her friends, and neighbors, none of which knew of her position, documented her secret status. That didn't stop the Cheney/Bush WAR OF CHOICE TEAM from putting other secret operatives at risk in order to continue to spread their WMD lies to justify this illegal immoral war. It also didn't stop Fox News from spreading around the lie that everybody knew about her job, either.

Let's hope the neocons will learn to love their country more than they hate what they perceive as liberals so that our country can get back to a reasonable foreign relations policy of building allies, using diplomacy, and only going to war as a last resort, against the true enemy, and only when there is a legitimate, unmanufactured threat, which has not been punched up with fake stories from FAUX NEWS, manufactured Intelligence, and a White House full of liars.

Maybe we can even end up with a President who actually knows where the Middle East is on a map. Tells the people the truth, and doesn't fulfill the dreams of our enemies by playing right into their hands!

Gayle in Md.
"Let us pray that the right will learn to love our country more than they hate Democrats!"

Gayle in MD
01-25-2007, 01:34 PM
Right! Bush wouldn't even answer the questions about his Cocaine use! Of course, we all know he's an alcoholic, and a liar, but hey, only lies about private matters count! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gayle in Md.
Let us pray that the Right will learn to love our country, more than they hate Democrats!

S0Noma
01-26-2007, 07:25 AM
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/8131/120121mresizeoa2.jpg

Gayle in MD
01-26-2007, 07:30 AM
AH HA HA HA!...Good one! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
01-26-2007, 07:46 AM
BWA HA HA HA...Love that sense of humour! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We must all pray that the Neocon Conservative Hawks, will learn to love their country, more than they hate Democrats and liberals!

And, lets hope this happens in time to save the world from the planned Armagedden of the religious fanatics, here and around the world, and especially the one in the White House!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr
01-26-2007, 07:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> BWA HA HA HA...Love that sense of humour! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

We must all pray that the Neocon Conservative Hawks, will learn to love their country, more than they hate Democrats and liberals!

And, lets hope this happens in time to save the world from the planned Armagedden of the religious fanatics, here and around the world, and especially the one in the White House!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

It works both ways, Gayle. Maybe if some of the vicious hate-filled comments from the left were toned down a little bit, there might actually be something positive accomplished. You have to admit, you have done your level best to deamonize republicans over the past few years.
Steve

Gayle in MD
01-27-2007, 08:59 AM
Tell me, Steve, did you approve of the blank check Republican majoirty, and their refusal to hold George Bush and Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld to any accountablity? I write about factual information, and you, and the rest of the right on here attack with your own emotional reactions to the truth to what I write, and call it hatred, demonizing, and all sorts of irrational BS.

Sooner or later, you are going to have to face the fact that disapproval of George Bush, and his policies, and the War in Iraq, and the deceit used by this administration, with the help of the Republicans in Congress, can no longer be labeled a partisan attack of hatred, and should not be misconstued, using the same methods which this deceitful administration attaches to anyone who speaks out against their law breaking. Both parties now condemn Bush, his failed policies, and his refusal to heed accurate warnings.

It has all been documented, and acknowledged by both Republicans, Democrats, The Baker Commission, and the National Security Estimate. The Scooter Libby trial has uncovered more lies, and dirty underhanded actions by Cheney AND Bush. You don't have to take my word for it, but don't try to tell me that I am inspired by hatred. That, is no longer a reasonable accusation, given that most of what I have accused this president, and his administration, has now been fully documented.

If there is hatred afoot, it is coming from the blind followers, who supported this president, and his failed policies, purely out of hatred for what they label as liberals, Democrats, independents, or anyone who acknowledges the facts about Bush, and this illegal war. I suggest that you give a shot at discussing the validity of the things I write about. There is a great deal of evidence that supports the theory that Conservatives hate liberals and Democrats so much, thirty percent of them would acknowledge any of Bush's major mistakes, eventhough our troops are dying for them every day. John Dean's book, Without Conscience for example, explains the psychology behind the conservative effort including denial of the facts, and demonizing of Liberals and Democrats. He is, BTW, a lifelong Republican, who also wrote the Book called Worse Than Watergate which fully describes the illegality of this administration, all their attack against the Constitution, breaking of National, and International Laws, and the vast exit away from the traditional values of the Republican Party. Therefore, I submit to you that I have not demonized Republicans, but rather, they ARE demons for their many illegal and unamerican activities. I am unable to write about such things, with kool aide style denial, particularly when so amny are dying needlessly as a result of a corrupt neocon movement which has torn our Nation apart, and made many many rich neocons, and their Saudi Arabian co-hearts, much much richer.



Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
01-27-2007, 09:15 AM
Dan Rathers report about Bush, not showing up for his service, and failing to take his blood test, happened to be true. The New York Times reported on an Administration which was breaking FISA laws, also true, obviously, since they now have to be accountable to a Democrat majority, suddenly their bold statements about protecting Americans, by spying on them, and their excuse being that FISA laws prohibited them from protecting us, have all been dropped, with no explanation of why, and suddenly, FISA is not a problem. Had you seen the interrogation of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and Secretary Of State Condoleeza Rice, and the Republican Senators who flat out accused them of not telling the truth, you surely wouldn't make such untrue, ridiculous partisan statements.

"Attorney General Gonzales, why is it that FISE was such an issue that you stated that you could not protect our country, and follow the FISA laws, but now you're telling us that you CAN protect us, following the FISA laws?"

No legitimate answer followed...

Gayle in Md.

moblsv
01-27-2007, 10:45 AM
The Dan Rather report is a prime example of how the right wing blogs can create myths. The myth that the documents were forgeries ranks right up there with "Gore claimed he invented the Internet". It is true that the primary document could not be verified 100% but it does correlated exactly with the evidence and it generally considered 'most likely legit'. The myths about the 'th' and other blog stories that claim to show evidence of forgery have been proven false.

For those who care to hear the other side of the story, Mary Mapes wrote a good account of this in her book Truth and Duty

Gayle in MD
01-27-2007, 11:12 AM
Well, the right is famous for spreading lies. They have their own magazines, and news channels, to promote propaganda that condemns anyone who tells the truth, and to twist the truth. I see it happen constantly. Fox news did a nuymber of interviews with righties, for example, spreading the story that everybody in Whasington knew that Valarie Plame worked at the CIA. The Special Prosecutors office went out and interviewed all the Wilson's friends, family, neighbors, old school mates, and then said that it was not generally known.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/

There is no doubt that Dick Cheney concocted a plan to discredit Joe Wilson for telling the truth, that the documents the administration used to launch their path to war, sighting Saddam's supposed purchase of Yellow Cake, were fake, and them Bush puts it in a State Of The Union address, knowing damn well it was a lie, then Cheney goes on every damn Sunday morning show telling the same lie over and over again.

The sheer number of lies this president, and his administration have told from the start, should be enough to impeach this SOB. People are dying because they lied to all of us. It is absolutely outrageous, that ANY American would support Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, (all of them took part in the lies) knowing that our troops are in harm's way, for nothing! And bin Laden, is still loose! Unbelievable!!!

Gayle in Md.
Roughly thirty percent of Americans are delusional and in denial! BTW, none of them are Democrats, lol.

Bobbyrx
01-27-2007, 08:13 PM
If you read my post above all I said about Rather was " Dan Rather's fair and balanced reporting" and your reply to me was " you surely wouldn't make such untrue, ridiculous partisan statements."
I bow to your superior wisdom

Bobbyrx
01-27-2007, 08:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr> The Dan Rather report is a prime example of how the right wing blogs can create myths. The myth that the documents were forgeries ranks right up there with "Gore claimed he invented the Internet". <font color="blue"> . "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet." </font color> It is true that the primary document could not be verified 100% but it does correlated exactly with the evidence and it generally considered 'most likely legit'. The myths about the 'th' and other blog stories that claim to show evidence of forgery have been proven false. <font color="blue"> By who and when did this happen???..........disclaimer----the following is a cut and paste job </font color>


<font color="blue"> How do we know the documents are fakes? Here are a few of the most basic reasons:

1) The report of Mr. Peter Tytell, document expert, which is Appendix 4 to the Thornburgh Report. Mr. Tytell "concluded that the Killian documents were generated on a computer. He does not believe that any manual or electric typewriter of the early 1970s could have produced the typeface used in the Killian documents."

2) The analysis of Dr. Joseph Newcomer, one of the founders of modern electric typesetting. Dr. Newcomer's conclusion: "These documents are modern forgeries."

3) The "Killian documents" are in Times New Roman font. Times New Roman is common on modern word processors, but was never licensed for use on any typewriter.

4) The Thornburgh Report found that whoever forged the documents got no fewer than six military acronyms wrong.

5) One of the fake documents says that General "Buck" Staudt was pressuring Lt. Col. Bobby Hodges to sugarcoat Lt. Bush's evaluation. The document is dated August 1973. General Staudt retired in April 1972.

6) The source of the documents was Bill Burkett, a notorious Bush-hating crank with a personal vendetta against the National Guard. He lied about where he got the documents. First he said they were given to him by someone named "Conn" who promptly left for Europe. (CBS never made any attempt to locate Mr. Conn, who turned out to be fictitious, to verify Burkett's story or, more important, find out where Conn got them.) After the 60 Minutes story blew up, Burkett admitted that Conn didn't exist. His revised story was that he got a call from someone named "Lucy Ramirez" who told him to go to the Texas Livestock Show. He went to the Texas Livestock Show. A man he'd never seen before walked up to him and handed him an envelope, which contained the documents. He took them home, photocopied them, and burned the originals.
7) Jerry Killian's widow and sons say that he did not write the memos, and that he did not agree with the sentiments they express.

8) President Bush's evaluations from that time period are glowing. His superiors, including Jerry Killian, described him as a first-rate officer and pilot.

</font color>
For those who care to hear the other side of the story, Mary Mapes wrote a good account of this in her book Truth and Duty <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">If they did nothing wrong, why aren't Rather and Mapes working at CBS anymore? </font color>

moblsv
01-27-2007, 09:50 PM
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

you are quoting John Hinderaker to make a case? enough said.

Bobbyrx
01-27-2007, 11:08 PM
From the non right leaning Wikipedia:
"Hinderaker was one of the first on the blogosphere to point out how the Bush National Guard document that was covered on 60 minutes was indeed a hoax since it was clear that the memo was written on Microsoft word and no typewriter available in 1972 could type a document is such a manner."

Gayle in MD
01-28-2007, 04:00 AM
I think your intended point was obvious, why bother posting a post, for the soul purpose of clouding the truth about what you were actually suggesting?

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

moblsv
01-28-2007, 06:06 AM
I guess I need to fix that error

moblsv
01-28-2007, 07:33 AM
http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/supporting_material/Bush_Memos.pdf

Bobbyrx
01-28-2007, 09:25 AM
you are quoting David Hailey to make a case? enough said.

a forgery of a forgery was a good try. I didn't see where CBS used this guy as a defense in 2004 and as of last week Katie Couric was still anchor and Rather still fired...............look, I agree that Bush is a bone head and I'm actually one of the 67% (not that I'll vote Democratic in the next election, I just don't think he's done a good job) but this post was about Fox news bias and I don't think they are anymore to the right than CBS etc are to the left. And I still think CBS held this "story" in 2004 and then ran with it right before the election trying to influence the outcome

Gayle in MD
01-28-2007, 09:38 AM
The issue at hand has little to do with the actual memo. The issue is whether or not the story is true, and the story WAS true. Both Rather, and the Mapes stand behind the story, and Bush has never proved any different. I'm quite sure they'd be out there with the proof, if the story, in fact, was not true. Also, I saw the man who worked in the office of the National Gaurd interviewed, who said that when Bush was Governor, Karen Huges, another of Bush's people, came to his office, and he caught them removing Bush's record regarding the incident, from the office.

You're really scraping the barrel to defend Bush. Why, I don't know, since there is ample evidence of his lies, law breaking and wrong doing available right now, regarding much more recent poor judgement and incompetent behavior.

If you think Fox News, is fair and balanced, that tells me all I need to know about any of your other conclusions. You criticize information from books, which have been praised in the world of journalism, and then turn around and use themost right wing magazine in the country to try to prove YOUR points! Pahleeeze!

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
01-28-2007, 09:47 AM
If they held it to try and influence the outcome of the election, I'd say they were trying to do the American people, and our troops, a great and patriotic favor!

This is the missing link between your complaints about partisan press, and the right wing neocon rags, both on cable, and in magazines, which spewed out lies on behalf of Bush and company, the results of which brought us the worst president in history, and were co-conspiritors to the devastation which we must now kind a way out of.

Gayle in MD

moblsv
01-28-2007, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> The issue at hand has little to do with the actual memo. The issue is whether or not the story is true, and the story WAS true.<hr /></blockquote>

exactly - here is what I wrote to the person maintaining the wiki entry mentioned earlier

<font color="blue">The 60 Minutes statement is incorrectly asserting an allegation as fact. The "proof" that ths document was written in Word is highly suspect. Regardless, even if the allegation were true, it doesn't change the facts of the 60 minutes story. This is a prime example of the effectiveness of the Right Wing echo chamber, attack machine to beat down facts through bully tactics. Please do not continue to propogate suspect allegations as fact. </font color>

Bobbyrx
01-28-2007, 10:41 AM
Just because you say the 60 minutes story is true does not prove anything. Just because Rather stands behind a story with no proof means nothing. CBS did'nt stand behind it, they fired Rather and Mapes.....The point is CBS held the story until they thought could influence the election....therefore they are biased just as much or more in this case than Fox

Bobbyrx
01-28-2007, 10:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> If they held it to try and influence the outcome of the election, I'd say they were trying to do the American people, and our troops, a great and patriotic favor!
<font color="blue">So if the ends justify the means its ok as long as its supports what you believe</font color>

moblsv
01-28-2007, 10:51 AM
your hatred of the media is clouding your assessment of the situation. Please review the facts.

for one thing, the problem wasn't holding the story it was rushing the story.

another, if politics and false assertions can sway public opinion enough to get Bush elected, TWICE!!!, It can certainly get a reporter ousted from a corporation.

Bobbyrx
01-28-2007, 11:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr>

If politics and false assertions can sway public opinion enough to get Bush elected, TWICE!!!, It can certainly get a reporter ousted from a corporation. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">I'm afraid in these times every election is going to be swayed by politics and false assertions on BOTH sides. But you are a knowledgeable person and I enjoyed bouncing it around with you</font color>

Gayle in MD
01-29-2007, 07:02 AM
You are so right my friend. And, Rather is only one of many ousted. Phil Donahue is another who was ousted. There is a huge list of Democrats in the media who lost jobs or had their shows dropped, thanks to Bush's media billionaires, not to mention they performed the equivilent of ethnic cleansing on K street, this time partisan cleansing, in the CIA, and in the military, using various tactics. Washington insiders agree, it was unprecedented. Tactics including such practices as making people who applied for job in the field of Iraqi construction/reconstruction, and even desk jobs in Iraq had to answer questions regarding their views on abortion and stem cell research!

This poster states he doesn't believe the information in the book, Hubris, not much point in debating with him. Most all of the info in that book has been documented by many others, from both the left and the right.



Gayle in Md.

eg8r
01-29-2007, 08:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The issue at hand has little to do with the actual memo. The issue is whether or not the story is true, and the story WAS true. <hr /></blockquote> Perfect Gayle quote, who cares if you lie a little as long as some of it is true. Once again lying is OK if Gayle approves of the liar.

eg8r

eg8r
01-29-2007, 09:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
your hatred of the media <hr /></blockquote> Keep up this type of behaviour and Gayle might start ignoring your posts. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just because Rather lied and lost his job for it and Bobby is merely pointing it out does not make Bobby a hater of the media. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just like Gayle does not hate W. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

eg8r

eg8r
01-29-2007, 09:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If they held it to try and influence the outcome of the election, I'd say they were trying to do the American people, and our troops, a great and patriotic favor!

This is the missing link between your complaints about partisan press, <hr /></blockquote> So, it is OK for CBS to be biased because they lean left, but those horrible guys at Fox lean right, so off with their heads. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r