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Qtec
01-24-2007, 08:32 PM
video (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=2056551334625467416&q=Ding+snooker )
Q

cushioncrawler
01-25-2007, 01:14 AM
Ding potted 36 balls without missing -- Whats the big deal???? madMac.

whipy
01-25-2007, 02:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Ding potted 36 balls without missing -- Whats the big deal???? madMac. <hr /></blockquote>

let's see you try making a 147.

Isshi
01-25-2007, 08:51 AM
Simply breathtaking.

I've read many commentators saying that snooker players don't use too much
side (what we Yanks call 'english' of course), and might go through an entire
inning just playing stun, follow and draw. Yet in that video, it sure appeared
to me that many of his shots used side spin- by the camera angle perhaps,
sometimes he seemed to be cueing easily more than a tip off center ball, and
the TV commentator mentioned 'deep screw' more than once. Is this the
Chinese style, or does snooker use side spin more than many suggest?

Loading up the white with side on a shot to the far corner pocket on a
snooker table? Man I can't believe what kind of accuracy that takes.

Awed, Isshi.

dr_dave
01-25-2007, 10:21 AM
Awesome! Thank you for sharing it.

Do you know the year and tournament name? Was it the finals? Did Ding win the tournament?

Thanks,
Dave
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> video (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=2056551334625467416&amp;q=Ding+snooker )
Q <hr /></blockquote>

whipy
01-25-2007, 10:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Awesome! Thank you for sharing it.

Do you know the year and tournament name? Was it the finals? Did Ding win the tournament?

Thanks,
Dave
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> video (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=2056551334625467416&amp;q=Ding+snooker )
Q <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

It was just last week, at the Masters in Wembley. Ding made the 147 in his first round match against Anthony Hamilton. The final was between O'Sullivan and Ding. O'Sullivan won 10-3 in maybe the best performance of snooker i have ever seen.

check out this link for more info:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/snooker/6285217.stm

Qtec
01-25-2007, 10:37 AM
here is another one Dave. LOL video (http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1169701314/Golf_is_Easy_if_You_Listen_to_this_Guy) Page may not be quite SFW.

This was just last week. Believe it or not Ronnie surpassed this level of exelence to win 10-3!
The crucial frame was when Ding was 66 in front with a possible 67 still on the table. Instead of rolling an easy red ,he went for position on a color and missed. Ronnie made a brilliant first ball and cleared up with a max 67 to win by one point. It was trully awesome and I don't use that word lightly. The first ball he potted was almost straight and he had to force the angle. he hit it a 100 mps LOL It was truly a all or nothing shot.
Ding was crushed. It was all over.
WhenRonnie plays his best,there is NOBODY on the planet that can touch him.

Q

whipy
01-25-2007, 10:40 AM
hee ik was je net voor /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

dr_dave
01-25-2007, 11:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>This was just last week. Believe it or not Ronnie surpassed this level of exelence to win 10-3!
The crucial frame was when Ding was 66 in front with a possible 67 still on the table. Instead of rolling an easy red ,he went for position on a color and missed. Ronnie made a brilliant first ball and cleared up with a max 67 to win by one point. It was trully awesome and I don't use that word lightly. The first ball he potted was almost straight and he had to force the angle. he hit it a 100 mps LOL It was truly a all or nothing shot.
Ding was crushed. It was all over.<hr /></blockquote>
If this video becomes available online, please share the link.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>WhenRonnie plays his best,there is NOBODY on the planet that can touch him.<hr /></blockquote>Amen! I still love the Ronnie break I have linked under "Great match highlights" in the online video collection section of my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/videos/index.html).

Thanks again,
Dave

dr_dave
01-25-2007, 11:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> here is another one Dave. LOL video (http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1169701314/Golf_is_Easy_if_You_Listen_to_this_Guy) Page may not be quite SFW.<hr /></blockquote>
That's about the silliest thing I've ever heard, but cute! Thanks for sharing it. I hope you don't think the techies on the CCB actually sound like that.

Dave

Stretch
01-25-2007, 12:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Isshi:</font><hr> Simply breathtaking.

I've read many commentators saying that snooker players don't use too much
side (what we Yanks call 'english' of course), and might go through an entire
inning just playing stun, follow and draw. Yet in that video, it sure appeared
to me that many of his shots used side spin- by the camera angle perhaps,
sometimes he seemed to be cueing easily more than a tip off center ball, and
the TV commentator mentioned 'deep screw' more than once. Is this the
Chinese style, or does snooker use side spin more than many suggest?

Loading up the white with side on a shot to the far corner pocket on a
snooker table? Man I can't believe what kind of accuracy that takes.

Awed, Isshi.
<hr /></blockquote>

Hi Issi ! Yes that was an AWSOME 147. That guy played like a genious. He used every part of that cueball to make every shot in the book. The highlights for me was when he cannoned into the pack with enough top spin to drive right through it and sit for the black. Then there was the english (side). He was way on the wrong side of his last red it looked like he'd never hold the cb for the black but that thing came straight accross table for it. And deep screw? the last black he was too straight to get back up for the yellow so he unloads the deep draw with a trace of side. His form is flawless too. He's feerless too, i noticed he was a little out of line alot but always came back with perfect touch and control. Was a pleasure to watch!

The other nice thing i notice was the comentators remark that this was only the second time in the history of the Masters that a perfect game was recorded. The first one to do it was Canada's own Kirk Stevens in 1984. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.

dr_dave
01-25-2007, 01:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>Yes that was an AWSOME 147. That guy played like a genious. He used every part of that cueball to make every shot in the book. The highlights for me was when he cannoned into the pack with enough top spin to drive right through it and sit for the black. Then there was the english (side). He was way on the wrong side of his last red it looked like he'd never hold the cb for the black but that thing came straight accross table for it. And deep screw? the last black he was too straight to get back up for the yellow so he unloads the deep draw with a trace of side. His form is flawless too. He's feerless too, i noticed he was a little out of line alot but always came back with perfect touch and control. Was a pleasure to watch!<hr /></blockquote>I do agree that Ding's play was brilliant, but I am much more impressed when someone can avoid "side" (English) as much as possible. Why risk the uncertainties of squirt, swerve, and throw if "side" can be avoided. Ronnie's record fast (5:20) 147 break (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPWtpODY0uw) at the 1997 World Championship is still more impressive to me. He rarely even touched a cushion, and I don't think he used "side" (English) once! Although, he did use some great "deep screws" (power draws) and delicate cluster break-ups. Overall, he made the run look easy. To me, that's pure brilliance!!!

Regards,
Dave

bradb
01-25-2007, 02:04 PM
Lets not forget Thorburn's 147 at the world championships, it started with a fluke.

Stretch
01-25-2007, 02:16 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>Yes that was an AWSOME 147. That guy played like a genious. He used every part of that cueball to make every shot in the book. The highlights for me was when he cannoned into the pack with enough top spin to drive right through it and sit for the black. Then there was the english (side). He was way on the wrong side of his last red it looked like he'd never hold the cb for the black but that thing came straight accross table for it. And deep screw? the last black he was too straight to get back up for the yellow so he unloads the deep draw with a trace of side. His form is flawless too. He's feerless too, i noticed he was a little out of line alot but always came back with perfect touch and control. Was a pleasure to watch!<hr /></blockquote>I do agree that Ding's play was brilliant, but I am much more impressed when someone can avoid "side" (English) as much as possible. Why risk the uncertainties of squirt, swerve, and throw if "side" can be avoided. Ronnie's record fast (5:20) 147 break (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPWtpODY0uw) at the 1997 World Championship is still more impressive to me. He rarely even touched a cushion, and I don't think he used "side" (English) once! Although, he did use some great "deep screws" (power draws) and delicate cluster break-ups. Overall, he made the run look easy. To me, that's pure brilliance!!!

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>


Dave did you catch when they did a close up of Ding's cue tip as he was addressing the cue ball? It's Mushroomed! OMG!! lol I don't feel bad now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.

whipy
01-25-2007, 03:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>Dave did you catch when they did a close up of Ding's cue tip as he was addressing the cue ball? It's Mushroomed! OMG!! lol I don't feel bad now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St. <hr /></blockquote>

Of all the top snooker players, Peter Ebdon probably has the biggest mushroom tip /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bradb
01-25-2007, 08:28 PM
Was a pleasure to watch!<hr /></blockquote>I do agree that Ding's play was brilliant, but I am much more impressed when someone can avoid "side" (English) as much as possible.

Yes It was a demonstration of pure talent and instinct!
Have to disagree with you slightly Dave, those other players had a better rack split then Dings and had several shots to stun off. I think Ding made a 147 out of a very tough rack scatter by forcing the cue into postion and making it happen. Especially that through the rack top spin!!! It looked like he had only one red on for most of the break, I think it was one of the best 147's ever. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

cushioncrawler
01-26-2007, 12:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> ....Dave did you catch when they did a close up of Ding's cue tip as he was addressing the cue ball? It's Mushroomed! OMG!! lol I don't feel bad now... <hr /></blockquote> Ding possibly duz what others do. The brass ferrule is filed so that it is bevelled on top, at perhaps 20dg. Then the tip (slightly oversize) is pulled down (wrapped) over the bevel, so that its curve is curved even moreso. This creates a slight taper (plus mushroom) in the side of the tip. This taper is filed or cut a bit to meet the brass ferrule accurately, so increasing the taper a bit moreso. I think that this rezults in a funny looking mushroom. Not sure what the intention iz. madMac.

cushioncrawler
01-26-2007, 12:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whipy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Ding potted 36 balls without missing -- Whats the big deal???? madMac. <hr /></blockquote>let's see you try making a 147. <hr /></blockquote> My best snooker break is about 65, i might play 5 frames in a year. But, my billiards mate has knocked Ding out of a snooker tournament, and i have beaten my mate at billiards, so i say, bring Ding on. madMac.

DickLeonard
01-26-2007, 07:10 AM
Ssssstttttrrrrtreeeettttcccccchhhhh You should be The Canadian Ambassador for Pool/Snooker. If a Canadian did it you will let the U.S. know. As it should be.####

dr_dave
01-26-2007, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>Dave did you catch when they did a close up of Ding's cue tip as he was addressing the cue ball? It's Mushroomed! OMG!! lol I don't feel bad now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.<hr /></blockquote>
Why do people make such a big deal about a mushroomed tip? I think if you are using a properly shaped tip and you are hitting the cueball within the non-miscue zone, the extreme edge of the tip doesn't come into play (e.g., see the diagrams in my July '06 instructional article dealing with "tips" of English (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/2006/july06.pdf)).

Am I missing something?

Dave

Stretch
01-26-2007, 08:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>Dave did you catch when they did a close up of Ding's cue tip as he was addressing the cue ball? It's Mushroomed! OMG!! lol I don't feel bad now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.<hr /></blockquote>
Why do people make such a big deal about a mushroomed tip? I think if you are using a properly shaped tip and you are hitting the cueball within the non-miscue zone, the extreme edge of the tip doesn't come into play (e.g., see the diagrams in my July '06 instructional article dealing with "tips" of English (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/2006/july06.pdf)).

Am I missing something?

Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Dave i was being facisious. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I was never that uptight about a slight bulge but it can get out of hand with a soft tip. Most players believe it's a distraction because the bulge is seen as your sighting down the shaft.

One good thing the lowely mushroom has brought about is a huge Cotage Industry of tip Shapers, shavers, burnishers, pics, etc. etc. all designed to keep your tip perfectly flush with the ferrul, and properly maintained. For what particular "advantage" i'm not too sure. Other than looks.

The other thing is. Most snooker players have a notch in the end of thier cue butt so it sit's in your hand a certain way for every shot. It makes for a consistant feeling hit if you use a cue in the same direction ie grain faceing up for instance.

As a consiquence the tips tend to ware down on one side before the other causeing it to only mushroom in one direction. St.

Deeman3
01-26-2007, 08:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>

Am I missing something?

Dave <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Dave,

You may be missing something. Many of us use much more of the cue in playing. I slide the cue well into my hand and sometimes past the inside of the bridge on hard strokes. A mushroomed tip "feels" bad and may disrupt my stroke.

In addition, if may not matter what a stick looks like but if that were true, we'd all be shooting with Sneaky Petes. If you have $300 to $3,000 invested in your cue, an unsightly bludging tip looks bad, makes your cue appear to be maintained by a sloppy barkeep and encourages the type of behaviour that ends up with blue rings around your ferrel. Of course, to a person who might be apt want the appearance of a less skilled player (see Hustler=Chopstick) that might play right into their game plan. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color>

DeeMan

dr_dave
01-26-2007, 09:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>Dave did you catch when they did a close up of Ding's cue tip as he was addressing the cue ball? It's Mushroomed! OMG!! lol I don't feel bad now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.<hr /></blockquote>
Why do people make such a big deal about a mushroomed tip? I think if you are using a properly shaped tip and you are hitting the cueball within the non-miscue zone, the extreme edge of the tip doesn't come into play (e.g., see the diagrams in my July '06 instructional article dealing with "tips" of English (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/2006/july06.pdf)).

Am I missing something?

Dave <hr /></blockquote>

Dave i was being facisious. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I was never that uptight about a slight bulge but it can get out of hand with a soft tip. Most players believe it's a distraction because the bulge is seen as your sighting down the shaft.

One good thing the lowely mushroom has brought about is a huge Cotage Industry of tip Shapers, shavers, burnishers, pics, etc. etc. all designed to keep your tip perfectly flush with the ferrul, and properly maintained. For what particular "advantage" i'm not too sure. Other than looks.

The other thing is. Most snooker players have a notch in the end of thier cue butt so it sit's in your hand a certain way for every shot. It makes for a consistant feeling hit if you use a cue in the same direction ie grain faceing up for instance.

As a consiquence the tips tend to ware down on one side before the other causeing it to only mushroom in one direction. St. <hr /></blockquote>
Whether you were being facetious or not, my point and question were still serious. Thanks for your answers. I also look forward to hearing from others (the anti-mushroom followers) out there.

Dave

Fran Crimi
01-26-2007, 10:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>Dave did you catch when they did a close up of Ding's cue tip as he was addressing the cue ball? It's Mushroomed! OMG!! lol I don't feel bad now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.<hr /></blockquote>
Why do people make such a big deal about a mushroomed tip? I think if you are using a properly shaped tip and you are hitting the cueball within the non-miscue zone, the extreme edge of the tip doesn't come into play (e.g., see the diagrams in my July '06 instructional article dealing with "tips" of English (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/2006/july06.pdf)).

Am I missing something?

Dave <hr /></blockquote>


Yes. I think you are missing something. As you know, when a tip first starts to mushroom, it's also an indication that the tip is getting flat and needs shaping. I've yet to see a player who shapes their tip and ignores the mushrooming at the same time. Most players don't like the tip hanging over the side. Plus, players who stand low may find it a visual detriment. So when a player sees a mushroom, it usually means flat as well. That's not an unreasonable association to make since both flat and mushroom are usually addressed at the same time.

Out of curiosity, which players do you know shape their tips without addressing the mushrooming?

Fran

bradb
01-26-2007, 10:51 AM
Three snooker books I've read (Thorburn, Higgins and one general snooker) show what they consider the proper shape of the cue tip and its rounded. Most players in my league use a medium hard rounded tip.

dr_dave
01-26-2007, 11:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>Dave did you catch when they did a close up of Ding's cue tip as he was addressing the cue ball? It's Mushroomed! OMG!! lol I don't feel bad now. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.<hr /></blockquote>Why do people make such a big deal about a mushroomed tip? I think if you are using a properly shaped tip and you are hitting the cueball within the non-miscue zone, the extreme edge of the tip doesn't come into play (e.g., see the diagrams in my July '06 instructional article dealing with "tips" of English (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/2006/july06.pdf)).

Am I missing something?<hr /></blockquote>Yes. I think you are missing something. As you know, when a tip first starts to mushroom, it's also an indication that the tip is getting flat and needs shaping. I've yet to see a player who shapes their tip and ignores the mushrooming at the same time. Most players don't like the tip hanging over the side. Plus, players who stand low may find it a visual detriment. So when a player sees a mushroom, it usually means flat as well. That's not an unreasonable association to make since both flat and mushroom are usually addressed at the same time.

Out of curiosity, which players do you know shape their tips without addressing the mushrooming?<hr /></blockquote>Agreed. As a tip mushrooms, it might also flatten. However, the basis of my question was: If the tip is properly shaped (e.g., dime or nickel radius), does it really matter if the extreme edges are mushroomed or not. I have seen players reshape their tips without trimming off the mushroomed edges ... in fact, I'm guilty of that myself sometimes (not that I'm a "player," but I still wonder if its important or not). The only reasons I've seen so far removing the mushroomed edges (in addition to properly shaping the tip) are:

- it makes it look prettier.

- it feels better if you happen to pull the tip back through your bridge (which probably isn't recommended anyway). In fact, I think I might prefer to have feedback (from the mushroomed edge) that I'm pulling the stick back too far).

What I was wondering is if anybody thinks there are physical reasons why mushroomed edges are bad, assuming one doesn't pull the tip back through the bridge, and assuming the tip has a proper radius.

Thanks,
Dave

Sid_Vicious
01-26-2007, 11:36 AM
"Many of us use much more of the cue in playing"

Good answer Dee...sid

bradb
01-26-2007, 12:03 PM
I will add that my 9 ball/8 ball cue tip is flatter then my snooker cue. It came with the cue and its so hard that I can't shape it. But it doesn't seem to have made too big a difference with the larger balls. I think I'll replace it anyway as I hate the edge view I get when sighting.

bradb
01-26-2007, 12:32 PM
-post note to my last statement, I can draw the QB back fairly good but there is a greater danger of miscuing with the hard flat tip.

bsmutz
01-26-2007, 12:53 PM
I tuned into the finals when Ronnie was up 4-2. He was playing rather lacklusterly, missing shots and missing safeties more than I expected during the seventh frame and ended up letting Ding win that one. Then he ablosutely fried Ding in the 8th frame. After the mid session break, I've never seen anything like it. I was astounded and amazed as he just made everything from everywhere for the rest of the match. It was incredible and I feel so lucky to have seen it as it happened. Big thanks to Alan Morris for posting the link and the times for the Masters tournament over on AZB.

cushioncrawler
01-26-2007, 05:18 PM
Hi Fran. Everyone here haz missed what i said. As far as i know most of the top snooker players in England install the tip so that it is mushroomed when new. There is a slight resemblance to the common mushroom, and a resemblance to the effect on screw and side. But, the exact shape of the tip, the shaping of the ferrule, and the method of seating and glueing the tip, are special. I have a cutout of a magazine article by a master-tipper explaining his method, somewhere. And i did a long posting explaining what i could remember about this stuff a long while back. madMac.

Qtec
01-26-2007, 09:40 PM
Its like Fox News on here! LOL
I can offer a likely explanation to the case of the 'mushroom' tip. LOL
First of all,the tip is not mushroomed. The tip is almost certainly [ deliberately ] shaped that way.
Poolplayers who want a bigger tip just buy a new shaft. Snooker players play most of their pro career with one cue and you can't buya new shaft. Even if you could it,to the player,it would be a diferrent cue.
If Ding wants a 10mm tip on a 9mm ferule........its only going to be one shape.

Qtec

Fran Crimi
01-27-2007, 03:12 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cushioncrawler:</font><hr> Hi Fran. Everyone here haz missed what i said. As far as i know most of the top snooker players in England install the tip so that it is mushroomed when new. There is a slight resemblance to the common mushroom, and a resemblance to the effect on screw and side. But, the exact shape of the tip, the shaping of the ferrule, and the method of seating and glueing the tip, are special. I have a cutout of a magazine article by a master-tipper explaining his method, somewhere. And i did a long posting explaining what i could remember about this stuff a long while back. madMac. <hr /></blockquote>

Mac, you lost me. But that's not surprising. I've been lost before. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I was just responding to Dave's post. I'm afraid I'm not familliar with your mushrooming story but it sounds really interesting.

Fran

Fran Crimi
01-27-2007, 03:23 PM
Like I wrote, Dave, depending on how much the tip is overlapping, it can be a visual detriment when cueing the ball, particularly for low-standing players. Many players use the end of the ferrulle as an aiming aid.

Fran

Sid_Vicious
01-27-2007, 03:43 PM
Fran...I'm definetely guilty of feeling the sides of a tip and having it bother me consiously if it ain't flush. The crown shape, nickel-dime-quarter does not bother me, but the bumpy sides do...mental I know. I happen to be a lot more particular about the cosmetics of the shaft as well, again mental. Still I like as prestine a cue as I can get..it simply makes me feel better.Having said that, I can grab a wall cue and not stall even though it feels like the first edition of the Frogger with all the bumps as long as the tip is in line. Strange game...sid

wolfdancer
01-27-2007, 09:22 PM
I think you been ingesting too many mushrooms.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cushioncrawler
01-31-2007, 01:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I think you been ingesting too many mushrooms.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote> Woolfy. Around hereabouts, i can get az much of my favorit polish Rydze mushroom, or my granny'z favorit, Maslaki. The Rydze are unbelievable, symbiotic with pine, u cook it like steak. My granny dryed the Maslaki next to the fireplace, and kept them for months, good for soup. But, my little secret, i have purple mushies on my farmlette, hallucinogenic, karnt wait to try them, in soup perhaps. madMac.