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moblsv
02-01-2007, 07:03 AM
Here is a prime example of what the easily manipulated are hearing and seem to believe

http://www.youtube.com/v/tU7Dyxt7hdw

moblsv
02-01-2007, 07:07 AM
a different link, with rebuttal

http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3840&Ite mid=12

Gayle in MD
02-01-2007, 08:14 AM
He's such a jerk. I call him "Bull O'Really?" Bull O'Really's(?) show is about as accurate as the National Review.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
02-01-2007, 08:18 AM
Why is it that the O'Riley comments are what the "easily manipulated" believe, but the rebutle contains no editorial comment from you? Is it because you believe the radical left version of things to be the absolute truth? I would suggest that anyone who buys in to the rebutle would fall into the catagory of "easily manipulated"

Penn, Fonda, Seranden, Robbins are all a bunch of idiots who should stick with their careers and stay out of politics. Hanoi Jane was a loose cannon during Viet Nam and hasn't learned anything since then. She offered her support to the enemy then, and she continues to do it today.

Penn thinks we should try to understand the enemy. Some of us do! They are determined to eliminate our way of life! How much more understanding do we need to have?

And to think there are some people who actually take pride in associating themselves with these traitors! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Steve

moblsv
02-01-2007, 08:22 AM
This is a case where nothing I can say could really add to what he just said. The very fact that this idiot has an audience should be an insult to every American.

Get out your old 'logical thinking' text books and listen closely. This guy should be a case study in every such class.

moblsv
02-01-2007, 08:26 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>They are determined to eliminate our way of life! How much more understanding do we need to have? <hr /></blockquote>

Therein lies the problem. Understanding the problem *IS* the solution.

Gayle has recommended Fiasco several times in her posts. I finally took her advice and am about 3/4 thru it. I will second that opinion and recommend it for you. It may help clear up some of your misunderstandings.

Chopstick
02-01-2007, 08:51 AM
I have to agree with Steve. It is the rebuttal that is deceptive and manipulative. What O'Reilly said made sense to me. I don't see what was wrong with it.

Gayle in MD
02-01-2007, 09:43 AM
Why is it that the O'Riley comments are what the "easily manipulated" believe, but the rebutle contains no editorial comment from you? Is it because you believe the radical left version of things to be the absolute truth? I would suggest that anyone who buys in to the rebutle would fall into the catagory of "easily manipulated"

I found nothing in the rebuttal that was not true. Care to write any documentation that proves otherwise?

Penn, Fonda, Seranden, Robbins are all a bunch of idiots who should stick with their careers and stay out of politics.
Being an actor cancels out one's right to free speech?
Hanoi Jane was a loose cannon during Viet Nam and hasn't learned anything since then.

She had enough sense to know that we couldn't win overthere, which, BTW, MacNamara also believes. People like Jane Fonda, who speak out when their Government is lying about what they are doing, are following their own set of morals and convictions. You'd prefer a dictatorship, where you're shot for stating your opinions?

She offered her support to the enemy then, and she continues to do it today.

She didn't support the enemy, she supported American troops, who were at that time in much the same position they are in now, fighting in a Civil War, against an unidentifiable enemy, for trumped up threats which did not exist, and in the grasp of an Administration who lied about what was happening. I think Ms. Fonda helped to save many lives by speaking out, and working to end the war. None of the predicted disasterous results to our country for leaving Vietnam ever came about. You'd have preferred another 58,000 dead for nothing instead?

Penn thinks we should try to understand the enemy. Some of us do!

Please tell us your vast knowledge of Middle East people, Arabs, Islam, Sunni, Shiia, etc., and why Diplomacy, and understanding through communication is so repulsive to you, but forcing our form of government in other countries, at the point of guns and bombs, is fine?


They are determined to eliminate our way of life! Iraqis have never threatened to eliminate our way of life. Iraqis did not bring down the WTC.

How much more understanding do we need to have?

Knowledge and understanding is not a worthy goal? Somehow that is a fitting statement coming from you.

And to think there are some people who actually take pride in associating themselves with these traitors!

You have pride in supporting and associating yourself with an Administration which states that exercising ones right of freedom of speech, renders them a traitor? And here you say so yourself? Then, which group are really the traitors to Democracy, American Principles and the Constitution?

Gayle in Md. Remembers that the whole world would be under communist control if we left Vietnam....

pooltchr
02-01-2007, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> [b]She didn't support the enemy, she supported American troops, <hr /></blockquote>

I think vets who were in the military in the 60's and 70's would disagree. Jane Fonda is one of the lowest lifeforms on the planet. She did NOT support the troops then, and I don't believe she does now. I suppose you were a big fan of hers back then as well. Those of us who served our country were not!!!!! There was very little support for the military back during Viet Nam, and Hanoi Jane lead the charge against us. As we say in the south, she is POND SCUM!!
Steve

Gayle in MD
02-01-2007, 10:31 AM
Too bad you weren't there last sunday to see all the Veterans, from both Vietnam, and Iraq, many in wheel chairs, thanking Ms. Fonda for standing up for the truth, and giving them a voice in both cases. Ms. Fonda spoke out against the administration who was lying to all of us, on behalf of the troops, and the Vietnam civilians, and you do not speak for all troops, in all wars. I don't see any answers to my questions. Just more of your radical ranting. And yes, I demonstrated against the war in Vietnam, and proud of it. I also speak with our present troops every week. They are once again dying, and being maimed, for no good reason, under horrible circumstances, in a civil war, in which they do not belong, and which they know will not improve through more death and destruction.

Gayle in Md.

pooltchr
02-01-2007, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> you do not speak for all troops, in all wars. <hr /></blockquote>

And considering your military background, neither do you!
/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Steve

DickLeonard
02-01-2007, 04:10 PM
pooltchr please don't bring up Gayles military background lest we bring up George and Dicks background which I consider pond scum.####

eg8r
02-01-2007, 04:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
pooltchr please don't bring up Gayles military background lest we bring up George and Dicks background which I consider pond scum.#### <hr /></blockquote> Listen #### if W's military background bothers you so much, why didn't clinton the draft dodger bother you. Oh yeah, Clinton even bombed a country that never posed a threat to the US. It gets juicier, he did not even have UN approval to do it.

eg8r

DickLeonard
02-02-2007, 06:40 AM
Eg8r I approved of Draft Dodging during the Viet Nam War, I disappoved of using pull to avoid going to War. I hope your writing this from Camp Pendleton.####

pooltchr
02-02-2007, 08:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Eg8r I approved of Draft Dodging during the Viet Nam War, I disappoved of using pull to avoid going to War. I hope your writing this from Camp Pendleton.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Let me try to understand this. It's ok to leave the country to illegally avoid serving in the military, but it's not ok to be in the military, but get a good assignment using whatever legal means you have at your disposal is not ok???? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

eg8r
02-02-2007, 09:36 AM
So, do you think you will beat Hillary?

eg8r

DickLeonard
02-02-2007, 09:52 AM
pooltchr I had a poolroom customer tell me that his father pulled strings to get him transfered to the medics and his replacement went out on patrol with his crazed Lt. one week later and was killed.

There is no notice in his death report that he was killed because someone pulled strings. Just a little sorry to inform you that your son was killed in action in Viet Nam.

I always wondered how many of the 1290 people Georgie skipped over to get in the Texas Air National guard were killed in Viet Nam because daddy pulled strings.####

Gayle in MD
02-02-2007, 10:07 AM
I am not the one who made broad sweeping statements regarding how the troops feel. I am well aware, that there are roughly as many against Ms. Fonda, and her former actions, who feel as you do about her. I am simply pointing out that she does represent many others who have served, who are on her side, and appreciate her views, and agree with her point of view, both Vets, and non Vets.

Unless you have experienced people who are against war, who share the same ideology regarding war, in general, on a personal level,.... what was so years ago during the war, is a poor representation, IMO, of the value behind their convictions in today's world.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
02-02-2007, 10:19 AM
Jack Benny didn't have anything on you! I'm glad that a few of us here are savy enough to enjoy your sense of humor.
I've noticed the right has suffered a drastic loss of mirth recently. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Love...

wolfdancer
02-02-2007, 10:47 AM
"I hope your writing this from Camp Pendleton."
Dick, I think you've hit on something there. Being over 30, having a family,etc... are no longer acceptable reasons for not enlisting. We recently lost a local 50 yr old man (3 kids) whose unit was called up from the reserves.
I have to agree with our "War President", the Napoleanic fantasizing, GWB
that 3000+ (dead) is only a number....but when you read an email like the one I got this morn, a mother begging for prayers for her wounded son....when that number is just "one" then it becomes a tragedy.
Ed and the others keep trying to justify GWB, by bringing up Clinton's foibles, instead of judging the Dub on his own "merits" (of which I see none)
you can't make George look good by comparing him to Clinton, or even by comparing him to a cocker spaniel...maybe not even a fire hydrant.
I hope Ed takes up your challenge, gets his a** down to the recruiting office first thing in the a.m.....and invites both Steve and Dee to join up with him....

wolfdancer
02-02-2007, 10:52 AM
what they got to laugh about anyway?...after seeing all the lies revealed for what they are... one media story after another, exposing the truth... one former "insider" after another speaking out against this madman...

Gayle in MD
02-02-2007, 11:10 AM
LOL, Now that's what I would call a small but feirce Special Ops Team~! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Love,
Gayle...going to take Jack and Dick on the road, and I'll be their agent. We will have to play, though, to a young, forward thinking, progressive crowd of liberal and libertarian realists, with an appriciation for mirth.

pooltchr
02-02-2007, 11:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> and invites both Steve and Dee to join up with him....
<hr /></blockquote>

Thanks for the invitation, but I already volunteered and fulfilled my military service between 1972 and 1976. Unfortunately, during the past 30 years, I have lost the physical ability to perform that particular job again.
Steve

Gayle in MD
02-02-2007, 11:48 AM
It is just so good, isn't it? To drink the sweet nectar of pure egotistical joy when documented proof of the validity one's opinions and predictions emerges with such universal acceptance and agreement. Save the Faux News, Limbaugh/Coulter/O'Really? style deniers of reality, the vast majority of Americans, may breath a sigh of righteous vindication. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Ah, such power, such joy abounds in the world.
Gayle in Md.

wolfdancer
02-02-2007, 12:06 PM
Unfortunately, during the past 30 years, I have lost the physical ability to perform that particular job again.

C,mon Steve, that's bs!
You're just scared that old CG uniform won't fit anymore!!!

Gayle in MD
02-02-2007, 02:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>
It may help clear up some of your misunderstandings.


[ QUOTE ]
<hr /></blockquote>

You can lead a ----- to water, but you can't make him drink, lol. I'll let you fill in the bland, lol.

They seem to have a vastly encompassing definition of whom exactly "They" is, considering that those being slaughtered, made homeless, fleeing from their country, being gassed and bombed to smitherines, being tortured, and being murdered, are not al Qaeda, nor terrorists. Some are shallow enough that it doesn't matter whom is slaughtered in payment for the transgression, but only that Someone IS. Someone, anyone, just kill kill kill.

Results of grabbing for weapons, as a first resort, and rushing out leaving one's few brains in the drawer.

pooltchr
02-02-2007, 03:33 PM
Wolf,
Scared is the wrong term. Try absolutely positive! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I can't imagine these legs carrying me up and down ships ladders any more. And the first time we got in rough seas, my back would go out quicker than a ten dollar hooker! No, that's a job for a much younger man than myself. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Steve

eg8r
02-02-2007, 07:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Ed and the others keep trying to justify GWB <hr /></blockquote> I was not trying to justify anything. All I did was show the hypocrisy in some people here. Military past is only a big issue when the Prez is a Rep. You guys had no problem when the previous President skipped out on the war and told the Reps that draft dodging has nothing to do with being the President. However, now that you don't like the current President this becomes a problem.

Secondly, you guys forget how you were quick to offer support to bomb the crap out of Milosevic, however the UN was much more reluctant not to mention he posed no threat to the US. Free ride for the draft dodger once again. I am just showing your hypocrisy and it really has zero to do with defending or justifying anyone. I have stated more times than I can remember that people should be responsible for what they do, this includes what they say. I am just here keeping you grounded and reminding you of the free pass you gave your buddy.

eg8r

eg8r
02-02-2007, 07:11 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Gayle...going to take Jack and Dick on the road, and I'll be their agent. <hr /></blockquote> I thought you and Dick were running for Pres and VP?

eg8r

Bobbyrx
02-03-2007, 08:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Too bad you weren't there last sunday to see all the Veterans, from both Vietnam, and Iraq, many in wheel chairs, thanking Ms. Fonda for standing up for the truth, and giving them a voice in both cases. Ms. Fonda spoke out against the administration who was lying to all of us, on behalf of the troops, and the Vietnam civilians, and you do not speak for all troops, in all wars. I don't see any answers to my questions. Just more of your radical ranting. And yes, I demonstrated against the war in Vietnam, and proud of it. I also speak with our present troops every week. They are once again dying, and being maimed, for no good reason, under horrible circumstances, in a civil war, in which they do not belong, and which they know will not improve through more death and destruction.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue">You cans actually defend Jane Fonda? She should still be rotting in prison for treason. Maybe another photo op with some terrorists in Baghdad planting a road side bomb would do her as good as then one with her sitting in the seat of the NVA anti-aircraft gun. Tell me, why are the wonderful protesters of this war not spitting on the troops when they return and calling them baby killers and rapists, etc (not unlike John Kerry)like they did during Vietnam?? Spray painting the Capitol building enough for them this time? </font color>

Gayle in MD
02-03-2007, 08:52 AM
why don't you tell us what YOU are doing for our troops? I think Ms. Fonda;'s efforts support our troops far more than you, or any of the other War Mongering Right, in this country, sinc 70% of them, polled, and results shown in the Army Times, think we should get the hell out of Iraq.

Oh, and here's a little note about your hero, Condoleeza (Liar) Rice...The MOST Responsible U.S. Official in the failure to DO ANYTHING to prevent 9/11.

Secretary of State Condeleeza Rice told reporters on her way to Jiddda that it was “incomprehensible” that she could have ignored dire terrorist threats two months before 9/11. She was responding to the charge made by Bob Woodward that she had failed to act on warnings delivered to her in July 10,2001 by George Tenet, then director of central intelligence. She also claimed not to remember any such meeting with Tenet in the White House on that date.

Now it turns out there was such a meeting, but Rice still denies receiving any urgent warnings about Al Qaeda. Condi Rice we know has yet to plead guilty to anything, other than being misled by the CIA about Saddam.

But there’s a telling passage in Paul Bremmer’s account of his tour as U.S. proconsul in Baghdad, “My Year in Iraq.” As Bremmer tells it he realised early on that the insurgency was going to represent a serious, perhaps fatal, threat to U.S. plans for Iraq. He repeatedly expressed those fears to Washington, along with increasingly blunt requests for more U.S. troops on the ground to handle the occupation as well as training of the new Iraqi security forces. (One of the reasons for the problem, of course, was Bremmer’s decision–backed by the Pentagon–to disband Saddam’s army, and fire all the top ranks of the civil service. )

Bremer also repeatedly warned Condi Rice, then the President’s National Security Advisor, about the situation. On May 19,2004, as Bremer recounts it (p. 357), ”I gave Rice a heads-up that I intended to send Secretary Rumsfeld a very private message suggesting that the Coalition needed more troops.”

In that message Bremer described the drastic deterioration in the security situation and the fact that the U.S. militarily simply didn’t have the forces to do the job it was supposed to do in Iraq. They couldn’t even provide security for the drive to and from Baghdad’s airport.

Bremer verified that Rumsfeld received his message but never heard back from him.

And as for Condi? A few days later, says Bremer, he briefed Condi and her deputy Steve Hadley, on the catastrophic security situation. Bremer warned that there would be an increase in insurgent attacks. So, he told Rice, “the message to most Iraqis is that the Coalition can’t provide them the most basic government service: security…We’ve become the worst of all things–an ineffective occupier.”

Rice and Hadley’s reaction? They “listened but made few comments.” Bremer and his assistant walked away ”not sure if our analysis would have any effect in Washington.” Sounds like the impression George Tenet said he had after briefing Condi in July 2001 about the imminent Al Qaeda threat.

Does Condi remember ????

You need a crash course in reality.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
02-03-2007, 07:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I think Ms. Fonda;'s efforts support our troops far more than you, or any of the other War Mongering Right, <hr /></blockquote> Wake up and smell the coffee, the War Mongering Right are paying the troops bills. This is a lot better support than anything Hanoi Jane has done. I just wish the Terrorist Appeasing Left would offer a plan to help get us out of this mess. If Hanoi Jane really wanted to support the troops she would get out of the way and let those who know what is going on do their jobs.

eg8r

Bobbyrx
02-04-2007, 12:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> why don't you tell us what YOU are doing for our troops? I think Ms. Fonda;'s efforts support our troops far more than you, or any of the other War Mongering Right, in this country, sinc 70% of them, polled, and results shown in the Army Times, think we should get the hell out of Iraq.
You need a crash course in reality.
Gayle in Md.
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Crash course 101: From the Army Times </font color> <font color="blue"> "While approval of Bush’s handling of the war has plunged, approval for his overall performance as president remains high at 52 percent. While that is down from his high of 71 percent in 2004, it is still far above the approval ratings of the general population, where that number has fallen into the 30s.

While Bush fared well overall, his political party didn’t. In the three previous polls, nearly 60 percent of the respondents identified themselves as Republicans, which is about double the population as a whole. But in this year’s poll, only 46 percent of the military respondents said they were Republicans. However, there was not a big gain in those identifying themselves as Democrats — a figure that consistently hovers around <font color="red"> 16 percent </font color> . The big gain came among people who said they were independents.

Similarly, when asked to describe their political views on a scale from very conservative to very liberal, there was a slight shift from the conservative end of the spectrum to the middle or moderate range. Liberals within the military are still a rare breed, with less than <font color="red">10 percent </font color> of respondents describing themselves that way.Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved."

<font color="black"> Nothing about 70 per cent wanting us to get the hell out that I could find. But it should be 100 percent. Nobody wants to be there. But I want to get out on our terms not theirs. And it also shows that even if the majority don't approve of how the war has been handled (neither do I) it sure doesn't show that they want to handle it the way the left wing does, which is....beats me.......and no answer as to why the "war protestors" aren't treating our returning troops with the same disdain that they did with Vietnam soldiers???? If you can't see whats going there you need the reality check </font color>