View Full Version : Breaking Someone Down

02-01-2007, 06:22 PM
It's never a pretty sight is it. That point in a game or match where your opponent has just flipped out and is a beaten man before the end has even happened.

If you let an opponent get under your skin for instance that will break you down fast. I saw that happen last night in league. Hy teammate was playing the young gun on the other team who has the reputation of being a bit of a hot head. Anyways (we'll call my homey Randy) Randy's not opposed to a little gamesmanship if he senses a weakness. lol Anyway, the table was a mess and the young gun was getting some bad roles and making a big deal out of his bad luck after every turn by cursing and scolding himself and blaming the equipment. Randy wasn't doing much better and so it was a kind of ugly match shooting wize and the barbs and chatter was going back and forth. Randy finally got down to the 8 ball all the while listening to young gun going on about his last miss. Anyway Randy dogged the shot, missed by a mile! The young fellow jumped up to start shooting as Randy was heading for the chair i said to him what happened? He just laughed and said loud enough that he felt so bad listening to all the crying going on that he felt sorry for him. WELL young gun SNAPS! lol he stepped up to the table and onetimes the eight ball down into the side pocket ignoring his other 3 balls still in play and yells THERE! that's how much i think of that game. Randy just says thanks, smiles and goes to mark the score. LOL The rest of the team just kinda looked at each other going what the heck just happened? Yep, never a dull moment with Randy.

One of his favorite ploys if he see's you in a bad mood after a miss. He'll really take his time at the table for the first shot. I'm sure he does that just to let you boil for a while and get into your head.

I'm just curious now. Do you guys know any "Randy's". I'm not saying he's a bad guy or anything, actually he's a great guy away from the table but when he sees a weakness he really knows how to exploit it. Is this generally considered poor sportsmanship in your opinion? I mean in that last example about the 8 ball, he wasn't the only one wuffing back and forth. I guess he was just a little bit better at it. St.

02-01-2007, 07:26 PM
Trying to get into someone's head isn't cool in my book. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif But everyone needs to experience it to learn how to deal with it.

After many, many years of playing and running into those type of players once in a while I've learned to ignore it and just try to play the table as it is given to me. I try not to play a human opponent anymore, I play the table as my opponent, and the table never talks to me or tries to "get in my head". Sounds to me like the "young gun" you described just needs more time/maturity to learn how to deal with that type of nonsense if he wants to have any future in the game.

In my younger years I may have done exactly the same thing the "young gun" did. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I took a 2 1/2 yr break from pool and that was probably the best thing that has ever happened for my game, I have a totally different attitude/perspective on the game now...........I think it's called "maturity". /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

02-01-2007, 08:09 PM
I know a few "Randy's". Each of them don't know how to play "Safe." They are shot makers only. During one match, Randy #1 broke and ran down to the 8 Ball and got snookered. He was pissed, cursing his misfortune, etc. He missed the 8 Ball, and I played a safe on the first shot even tho' I could have made a few balls but couldn't run out. He got even madder and started banging the balls around. I won the game. Randy #2 doesn't think safes should be aloud. Oh well.... I beat him as well.


02-03-2007, 11:29 AM
Its usually the starting out players who are still immature and don't quite understand the game as mentioned. However there are some players who never grow out of a bad habit. When I meet that type I try and avoid them. Sometimes you can't of course so playing the table is a great idea. In fact thats a good plan for playing anybody. (thanks for that tip 1A8baller)
The worst pro offender for BS doing play has to be the Mike "The Mouth Sigel"
He even managed to un-nerve Reyes for a bit before superior play by Reyes crushed him. Poor Lorri Jon Jones though was destroyed by Sigels constant inane yakking. Sigel may be a hall of famer but he's annoying as hell!!!

02-03-2007, 11:46 AM
I like antimated opponents, certainly the self defeating ones. Maybe it's just me but I usually cruise easier, and hardly say or do more than smile and stay comfortable.

Getting into someone's head though, at some level, just happens to be a part of the game. You may disagree, but do you REALLY wish the other guy good luck when you shake hands ahead of a bout? NO! You all pray for a cold roll for the guy when it's close.

Being quiet and smiling, or no emoitions at all,,,funny how people get distracted by the subtle things. All perfectly ethical up to a point...sid

Fran Crimi
02-03-2007, 01:09 PM
They're both losers, Stretch. I wouldn't want either one of them on my team.


02-03-2007, 02:01 PM
If I was Mike Sigel I would be embarrased to think that I had to win by off the table antics and not give my opponent the same courtesy they give me. The guy was the best, why degrade himself now?

If some idiot photographer clicks at Tigers swing they are escorted off the course. You are right that there is a certain amount of gamesmenship in pool, i.e. talking up your game or kidding your opponent on a missed shot, but I feel in tourney play sportsmenship should be the rule.

02-03-2007, 02:05 PM
Playing and competing at pool parallels life in all aspects. You have good days, bad days, and some times just showing up is all that's needed. Maturity in work and play comes with time and peer pressure. Depending on how you were raised or lack of is there for all to see during competition. The quicker one accepts what life dishes out at you the better person and player you will become. After going through the gamit to become proficient and perform under pressure, one becomes a better person. I look back at my kids playing team sports and how some of the parents acted, it was sad at times, but explains the true reasons why some self destruct when life doesn't go their way. I just saw Serena Williams doing an interview and her dad kept her and Venus out of Junior tennis because of the parental (guidance???) that was prevelant during this time frame of their life. I've always learned when you have an opponent down, the best thing you can do for that person is play better and they eventually shut up, grow up and make it easier to beat them the next time.

02-03-2007, 03:42 PM
The game is very much mental. You are not only playing with your cue but your psychology as well. If you know an opponent doesnt like a certain suit of balls.....give them to him more frequently than not....if your opponent does not like to be played safe against....do it deliberately...If they are a weak kick/banker make them shoot some early....I have always liked to stack the deck in my favor....if I am playing the young gun from another team especially if he thinks he is better than he actually is...I will take the cue ball and stick it right behind one of my balls leaving him nothing to shoot.....get the ball and hand...and do it again.....not just to frustrate him, but to spread my balls out for the eventual run out as well.

It is very true....once you are in their head....whether it is because of antics, bitching and crying, or just plain out shooting them....once you are in their head they cannot beat you.

There are even 7s out there that are like that....get the first game on them, play safe a few times....establish yourself as the dominate stick....and they will fold.

Now there is also way too many guys out there that are just exactly like the young gun you mention....alwasy blaming the equipment, or the room or the opponent....nothing is ever their fault....and they have alot to learn....I do not blame Randy for taking advantage...I know I would have too.

02-03-2007, 09:40 PM
"but I feel in tourney play sportsmenship should be the rule."

Absolutely! My basic "take" on Mike's chattering is that that's possibly just his thing to talk, and there are no intentions of mental bantering. Some people, and I find myself as one of them at times, simply are verbal animals.

02-04-2007, 01:49 AM
Hey Stretch, this wasn't a pool game, just ego. Just one reason why I rather not bother. Both may be great guys but their lacking. Yes I know both of them.


02-04-2007, 04:31 AM
Don't be NAIVE.... Things like this go on in every sport played in our country. Think Basketball ball players don't talk to each other. I was a catcher growing up, and we played competitive baseball in grade school when I was young, let alone Jr. and Sr. High. I was taught to chatter or unnerve the batters that were up. It is a part of the game. Think football players don't try to get under the opponents skin ... LOL

The only question is, what is acceptable and what isn't. Even the best players have their little snide remarks and putdowns, albeit in a nice way, to their opponents. You have to learn to deal with it in a way that won't let it affect your playing.

02-04-2007, 06:37 AM
APAskill6 here is my little safety story an Albany NY great safe player with all the safe moves back scratching etc. It would take an hour plus to play a fifty point game of straight pool with him.

He got his chance to play the Great Ralph Greenleaf an exhibition, before the match began he told Ralph his style of playing would that bother Ralph. No, he told him play your game. Everyone in the Pool World knew how Frank Taberskis slow play upset Ralph.

They lagged for the break and Ralph's lag reached half table and he had Ralph play the opening safe. Ralph gave him rotation break, the great safe player ran 7 balls and then Ralph ran 125 and out.####

02-04-2007, 06:42 AM
Rod nice to see your still posting. One question do you know these guys personally or are they the same two that I know.####

02-04-2007, 07:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Rod nice to see your still posting. One question do you know these guys personally or are they the same two that I know.#### <hr /></blockquote>

####, i think everyone knows these guys eh? lol They must be famous. I'm sure you've played against your share of *talkers. It's unfortunate for the game that a non'talker has to deal with the table , the pressure, AND the distraction of a chattering opponent. Of course when 2 such individuals get together fireworks usually fly. I don't think it adds much to the game but it sure gets everyone's attention. Just like a fight at a hockey game. Know one thinks it's good, everyone wants it banned. But it's always what makes the news, and people will drop whatever they are doing and watch!! People sure do love a good spectacle.

Like Randy dogging an easy eightball and saying he missed because he felt sorry hearing all hotshots "crying" about his last turn then hotshot getting offended doing his meltdown and slamming down the eightball to throw the game. Definitely bad form on both players, but it's what everyone else remembers of the night and they where all talking about it. St.

02-04-2007, 07:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> They're both losers, Stretch. I wouldn't want either one of them on my team.

Fran <hr /></blockquote>

I want to play pool. I do NOT want to play head games. It's as simple as that.

In fact, I want to help the other guy feel good so he's playing at the top of his game when I win the game/match. Head games are sharking and it's just immature.

My purist attitude has caused me to quit league and I seldom go to the ph anymore. Around here league is nothing but sharking and head games. I don't like the smoke, the music, the noisy kids or the sharking. There's just not much out there for me. I have one or two friends who play because they love pool so that's who I play pool with. I've become a grumpy ole geezer... and that's ok with me. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

02-04-2007, 07:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Rod nice to see your still posting. One question do you know these guys personally or are they the same two that I know.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Dick, must the same two, I sent them to NY. I see they arrived. ha ha


02-04-2007, 11:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> "but I feel in tourney play sportsmenship should be the rule."

Absolutely! My basic "take" on Mike's chattering is that that's possibly just his thing to talk, and there are no intentions of mental bantering. Some people, and I find myself as one of them at times, simply are verbal animals. <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I talked to a pro who has seen Mike in play and thats just the way he is. He can get away with it because of who he is, but I imagine if somebody lesser distracts like that they would get a warning. I yak a lot with friendly play but in a match I shut up. I found I shoot better when i do.

02-05-2007, 07:47 AM
I agree talking to a player while they are in a match should not be allowed...nor should walking around the table or any other method of distraction....all talking around a table should be done with cues....but it happens every league night....and we put up with it...just for a chance for a cheap trophy and a trip to Vegas.

02-06-2007, 08:51 AM
Rod I had a successful businessman who played with a group of 4 just about everyday that I managed the room in Troy. He told me he had a college degree but he got his Education in the poolroom.####