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wolfdancer
02-02-2007, 12:25 PM
all the two sides have to do is own up to the facts.
for the right:
1. accept the reality that GWB is not the man you thought you were voting for.
2. Global Warming is not a liberal myth
3. GWB's reasons for this war are a myth
4. it was expedient, in the interests of people's health, especially new-borns and youngsters, who had no choice, nor voice for the gov't. to step in ...and establish smoking regs.....to protect the "rights" of non-smokers (look it up...falls under "LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit....")
5. it's also ok for the Gov't to step in and make Wal-Mart pay the back wages due their employees. (screw the anti workers, phony laissez-faire policies of the right, which favors big business. (Congress is finally going to look into these absurd bonus's of these CEO's?)
For the left:
1.Bill should have done the gentlemanly thing, and had that dress dry-cleaned for Monica

Gayle in MD
02-02-2007, 01:39 PM
BWA HA HA HA...That is good! But I do think that their true problem lies in the feelings of insecurity, from which they obviously suffer, due to their secret loss of self respect, given they're complete lack of any reasonable argument for their past mis-calculations.

BTW, Kennedy produced several graphs in his testimonial to raising the minimum wage. They were produced by government Agencies, Census and such, showing where the money is going, who has been driven to the depths of poverty, and/or decended from middle class to lower, and upper middle class to low middle. It was indisputable, REpublicans are good for the very very rich, and very very bad for all the rest of us. IMO the most strikingly noticable proof that the right suffers from wishful thinking, lack of statistical proof for their rantings, and complete lack of compassions, and conscience, is the statistic on children living in proverty. We have the largest number of them of any industialized nation in the world. The graph clearly shows, also, that when Republicans are at the helm, our society, as a whole, suffers in almost every aspect of a healthy society, from education, to health, to income, to crime. Bottom line, Republican majority is the worst thing that can happen to our nation, a proven statistical fact.

Some of us already knew that. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Love,
Gayle

eg8r
02-02-2007, 07:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
2. Global Warming is not a liberal myth
<hr /></blockquote> The earth has been warming since the Ice Age. Who is surprised about this?

eg8r

Vapros
02-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Gayle, you have become very adroit at recognizing and pointing out the problems and errors of other people, at length, in detail and ad infinitum. Bully for you. I think everyone should be good at something.

wolfdancer
02-02-2007, 08:57 PM
The problem Ed, it seems we might be aiding and abetting it...
From NewScientist:
"Blame for global warming placed firmly on humankind

The most authoritative scientific report on climate change says with 90%
certainty that the burning of fossil fuels and other human activities are
driving climate change.

The report, from the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, says the
rise in global temperatures could be as high as 6.4C by 2100. The report also
predicts sea level rises and increases in hurricanes.

The new IPCC report is the work of 3750 climate experts, who have spent six
years reviewing all the available climate research. It was released in Paris,
France, on Friday."
The full story:
web page (http://javascript:ol('http://environment.newscientist.com/article/dn11088-blame-for-global-warming-placed-firmly-on-humankind.html');)

Gayle in MD
02-03-2007, 08:11 AM
Thanks, I always do my best. No point in doing anything half a$$ed, I always say.

Gayle in Md, /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Drop1
02-03-2007, 07:22 PM
Who cares how long,or why we have had global warming. If we can slow it,or reverse the loss of the ozone layer,and the non-problem climate changes; blips in the history of earth,why not? Do you have a problem breathing clean air? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
02-03-2007, 07:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares how long,or why we have had global warming. If we can slow it,or reverse the loss of the ozone layer,and the non-problem climate changes; blips in the history of earth,why not? Do you have a problem breathing clean air? <hr /></blockquote> Wow, with all that BS, you sound like a water purifying salesman. Now you state you don't care how long it has been going on or why we are having it. Sounds like just another crappy service guy at the local domestic new car lot. You really do yourself no favor with a post like yours.

eg8r

Drop1
02-03-2007, 08:52 PM
I'm asking why not do something if we can. So lighten up,after all I gave you a happy face.

moblsv
02-04-2007, 07:50 AM
For the left:
2. The nuclear problem is all their fault. If not for Liberals and their science, the Conservatives would still be fighting with sticks and stones.

FatsRedux
02-04-2007, 11:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote moblsv:</font><hr> For the left:
2. The nuclear problem is all their fault. If not for Liberals and their science, the Conservatives would still be fighting with sticks and stones. <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, Edward Teller was such a Liberal. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Julius and Ethel Rosenberg on the other hand, were true left wingers who betrayed their country and aided the Soviets in their quest for nuclear weapons. The left moaned and wailed for decades about how the Rosenbergs were innocent until after the demise of the USSR, when KGB files proving that the Rosenbergs were spying for the USSR came to light.

Fats

S0Noma
02-04-2007, 12:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote FatsRedux:</font><hr> KGB files proving that the Rosenbergs were spying for the USSR
Fats <hr /></blockquote>

Didn't it turn out to be Julius 'yes' but Ethyl 'no'? Or was it both of them?

moblsv
02-04-2007, 01:53 PM
I admit that my statement is historically unfair, it was meant to be.

What is also meant to point out - somewhat more fairly, I might add - is the current direction of Conservatism. All major scientific advances come from vast reservoirs of previously compiled information and progress. These days we are experiencing an attack on intellectualism and science that is/has/will lead to a decline in the relative rate of new advances from America. Not all of the world is following this trend. If we don't advance science, somebody else will, and that somebody else will reap the rewards.

FatsRedux
02-04-2007, 02:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote S0Noma:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote FatsRedux:</font><hr> KGB files proving that the Rosenbergs were spying for the USSR
Fats <hr /></blockquote>

Didn't it turn out to be Julius 'yes' but Ethyl 'no'? Or was it both of them? <hr /></blockquote>

Julius was the more active of the two, but Ethel was also a communist and active in the recruitment of other traitors. Below is the text of a declassified, decrypted cable from the Venona (NSA counter-intelligence project).

"Your number 5356(a) Information on LIBERALS (ii) wife (iii). Surname that of her husband, first name Ethel, 29 years old. Married five years, finished secondary school. A FELLOWCOUNTRYMAN (ZEMLYaK) (iv) since 1938. Suficiently well developed politically. Knows her husband's work and the role of METR (v) and NIL (vi). In view of her delicate health does not work. Is characterized positively and as a devoted person."

This cable marked the beginning of the end for the Rosenbergs. The KGB was usually quite meticulous in using code names, but in this screw up, they identified LIBERAL's (LIBERAL was Julius's KGB code name) wife as Ethel. US crypto experts exploited this carlessness to begin to unravel the Rosenbergs' identity.

Fats

eg8r
02-04-2007, 06:17 PM
I agree we should do something. I also feel that those trumpeting these ideas the most should lead by example.

This is an honest question, how does Gore jet around the world promoting his "green" movement? My guess is that he has logged many many thousand of miles in an airplane during 06. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

eg8r

wolfdancer
02-05-2007, 12:54 PM
I've read stories over the years, alleging that the Rosenbergs were innocent, also stories that Sacco and Vanzetti were innocent, maybe even Lee Harvey Oswald.....
What I didn't know was that it was the "left" publishing these untruths.
Some people actually bought into these stories...BUT, don't forget they didn't have the advantage of both Fox News, and Bill O'Reilly to get the facts
My Mom, who actually did do riveting on airplanes during the war, who hated both the Nazis and the Communists, was a devout Catholic, but had a "dark side" as a life long Democrat. She passed away without knowing she was part of this evil "leftist" conspiracy, that first wanted to hand the country over to the Kremlin, and now wants to give it to the Islamic terrorists.
Thank God we had Sen. Joe back then, and we now have GWB.
This seems to be a good timeline about the Rosenbergs:

web page (http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/rosenb/ROS_TIME.HTM)

Drop1
02-05-2007, 08:14 PM
I think Gore should ground himself,and happy, to see we agree something should be done,in the face of a destrutive changing climate.

eg8r
02-06-2007, 07:46 AM
I just read this article, seems quite interesting. I am no phd and I certainly do not have the background of this guy but maybe someone on the left can dig it up.

Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide (http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming020507.htm) I especially like this section of the text... [ QUOTE ]
Since I obtained my doctorate in climatology from the University of London, Queen Mary College, England my career has spanned two climate cycles. Temperatures declined from 1940 to 1980 and in the early 1970's global cooling became the consensus. This proves that consensus is not a scientific fact. By the 1990's temperatures appeared to have reversed and Global Warming became the consensus. It appears I'll witness another cycle before retiring, as the major mechanisms and the global temperature trends now indicate a cooling. <hr /></blockquote> Imagine that, the earth heats and cools all on its own. With no proof that human intervention is causing any of it.

eg8r

Qtec
02-06-2007, 09:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I just read this article, seems quite interesting. I am no phd and I certainly do not have the background of this guy but maybe someone on the left can dig it up.

<hr /></blockquote>


Ball and the oil industry
Ball is listed as a "consultant" of a Calgary-based global warming skeptic organization called the "Friends of Science" (FOS). In a January 28, 2007 article in the Toronto Star, the President of the FOS admitted that about one-third of the funding for the FOS is provided by the oil industry. In an August, '06 Globe and Mail feature, the FOS was exposed as being funded in part by the oil and gas sector and hiding the fact that they were. According to the Globe and Mail, the oil industry money was funnelled through the Calgary Foundation charity, to the University of Calgary and then put into an education trust for the FOS.

Ball inflates credentials
Ball and organizations he is affiliated with have repeatedly made the claim that he is the "first Canadian PhD in climatology." Even further, Ball once claimed he was "one of the first climatology PhD's in the world." As many people have pointed out, there have been many PhD's in the field prior to Ball.

Ball and the NRSP
Ball is listed as an "Executive" for a Canadian group called the "Natural Resource Stewardship Project," (NRSP) a lobby organization that refuses to disclose it's funding sources. The NRSP is led by executive director Tom Harris and Dr. Tim Ball. An Oct. 16, 2006 CanWest Global news article on who funds the NRSP, it states that "a confidentiality agreement doesn't allow him [Tom Harris] to say whether energy companies are funding his group."

Ball's research history
Ball retired from the University of Winnipeg in 1996 and a search of 22,000 academic journals shows that, over the course of his career, Ball has published 4 pieces of original research in a peer-reviewed journal on the subject of climate change Ball has not published any new research in the last 11 years.





A puppet for the oil industry.

Q

Stretch
02-06-2007, 09:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> I just read this article, seems quite interesting. I am no phd and I certainly do not have the background of this guy but maybe someone on the left can dig it up.

Global Warming is not due to human contribution of Carbon Dioxide (http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/global-warming020507.htm) I especially like this section of the text... &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Since I obtained my doctorate in climatology from the University of London, Queen Mary College, England my career has spanned two climate cycles. Temperatures declined from 1940 to 1980 and in the early 1970's global cooling became the consensus. This proves that consensus is not a scientific fact. By the 1990's temperatures appeared to have reversed and Global Warming became the consensus. It appears I'll witness another cycle before retiring, as the major mechanisms and the global temperature trends now indicate a cooling. <hr /></blockquote> Imagine that, the earth heats and cools all on its own. With no proof that human intervention is causing any of it.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Well i say congradulations to him! He just earned his spot in the less than 10 percent of Climate experts and Scientists that have thier head in the sand about Human contributions to global Warming. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif St.

wolfdancer
02-06-2007, 10:26 AM
Ed, while you're eager to accept the word of one charlatan,
as proof of your non-beliefs....you would also have to write-off as frauds, the consensus of the many agencies listed in the study I quoted earlier.
I'm sure I could find some authority that would testify that the sun rises in the west, and sets in the east....but....

You can still be a party faithful....and not buy into their "make the facts fit....research"

Deeman3
02-06-2007, 10:37 AM
I'll concede the fact of global warming having something to do, in part, with human activities as well as Cow Farts if you'll tell me how we are going to stop the Chinese from building one new coal powered energy plant a week or how the Sacred Accord will change that and the ongoing activities of India.


DeeMan

bsmutz
02-06-2007, 01:34 PM
Yeah, screw it. If India and China aren't going to cooperate, what's the use of us doing any thing? After all, they have way more people than we do...

FatsRedux
02-06-2007, 02:29 PM
Statistics needed
The Deniers -- Part I
Lawrence Solomon, National Post (Canada)
Published: Friday, February 02, 2007

In the global warming debate, there are essentially two broad camps. One believes that the science is settled, that global warming is serious and man-made, and that urgent action must be taken to mitigate or prevent a future calamity. The other believes that the science is far from settled, that precious little is known about global warming or its likely effects, and that prudence dictates more research and caution before intervening massively in the economy.

The "science is settled" camp, much the larger of the two, includes many eminent scientists with impressive credentials. But just who are the global warming skeptics who question the studies from the great majority of climate scientists and what are their motives?

Read the rest here:
National Post (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=22003a0d-37cc-4399-8bcc-39cd20bed2f6&amp;k=0)

Fats

eg8r
02-06-2007, 05:40 PM
Without reading any more of your BS, I will stop at the first line. Do you believe the man to be a charlatan because he does not follow your party line? If you have something to say about his character at least tell us why.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
02-06-2007, 06:16 PM
Where were all these skeptics when Bush was out there freaking everybody out with lies about WMD's, and Mushroom clouds, and Iraqis throwing flowers at our feet, and just a few dead enders, and firing everybody who "had anything to do with" (outing Valarie) releasing classified information, and WE're winning the war in Iraq???

/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Yet, if the agenda calls for denying science, hey, they're right there lined up with the Cheney oil cartel!

Has anybody seen bin Laden? Or the missing 360 tons of hundred dollar bills that Bremer lost? Ah, that's right, it was Saddam that attacked us on 9/11, how could I forget?

jGayle in Md.

pooltchr
02-06-2007, 08:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Where were all these skeptics when Bush was out there freaking everybody out with lies about WMD's, and Mushroom clouds, and Iraqis throwing flowers at our feet, and just a few dead enders, and firing everybody who "had anything to do with" (outing Valarie) releasing classified information, and WE're winning the war in Iraq???

/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Yet, if the agenda calls for denying science, hey, they're right there lined up with the Cheney oil cartel!

Has anybody seen bin Laden? Or the missing 360 tons of hundred dollar bills that Bremer lost? Ah, that's right, it was Saddam that attacked us on 9/11, how could I forget?

jGayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

I'm sorry, but I thought the discussion had turned to global warming. What does anything you posted have to do with the topic. Or do you now just take any opportunity you find to repeat your same old lines? If you must rant and rave, at least have the courtesy to remain on topic. Thank You
Steve

eg8r
02-07-2007, 09:35 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Or the missing 360 tons of hundred dollar bills that Bremer lost? <hr /></blockquote> I just read about this on the CNN website. Absolutely insane. Why on earth are we shipping billions in cash to a war zone when the money can be transferred electronically. This just seems dumb to me. Now they cannot find it? I am with you on this one Gayle, pure stupidity on Bremers part, and anyone else that went along with this idea.

eg8r

wolfdancer
02-07-2007, 10:20 AM
This could be the end of the free-discourse internet, as we know it.....
Gayle and Ed, actually agreeing on something!!!!

wolfdancer
02-07-2007, 10:32 AM
Ed, I read either here, or somewhere else, that the man's credentials are not as advertised....and that's no bs.
My point however....was that why would you take this one man's
"findings" as proof....over the many other agencies that have reached different conclusions?
You don't believe that we are fueling global warming...that's your opinion and it's shared by many ....but don't expect anyone with an opposing view to switch because of this guy.
Well, even Galileo had a hard time convincing the right....
( You don't usually read beyond the first line of any post, do you? )

pooltchr
02-07-2007, 11:57 AM
Wolf,
I realise your comments were not directed at me, but I would like to respond. From my viewpoint, I am not sure that global warming is as big an issue as many would like us to think. Our climate goes through cycles, and this may just be part of one of those cycles. We can only look at the past to find any actual facts.
That being said, I do believe that man's presence on this earth does have some impact on the earth. How much, in the overall scheme of things, is debatable. Do we consider air travel, automobiles, electric lights, computers, paved roads, etc as progress? Or are these things just selfish luxuries that we believe we need to have? How many of lifes "luxuries" should we give up in order to protect the environment?
Many auto makers are building hybrid cars to cut down on pollution. How many people are willing to spend the extra 3-5 thousand dollars to save some gas? Power companies try to get permits to build nuclear plants, but the environmentalists fight them every step of the way, so we still have power plants that burn fosile fuels.
I think we are doing a fair job of trying to protect the enviornment while maintaining the standard of living we have come to expect. Even the greatest enemy among us (Wal-Mart) is taking steps to cut energy use. They are encouraging employees and customers to convert to the new lower energy light bulbs.
But until we are all ready to give up the things that make life easier for us, how much do you really think is going to change. And as has been pointed out, the US is hardly the worst offender. And yes, while mankind does contribute to the problem, nature does a good bit more. The impact of one volcanic eruption is greater than what all the SUVs in the country contribute to the problem in a year.
I guess my point is, even if there is actual global warming occuring, how much more can we do to off-set it? Our very existance on this planet will have some impact. Even if we go back to living like cavemen (sorry Geico!)we would still be building fires. How would you suggest we go about "fixing the problem"?
Steve

wolfdancer
02-07-2007, 02:25 PM
Steve, forget global warming...we might even need it, as we got a new worry:
web page (http://http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/mg19325884.500?DCMP=NLC-nletter&amp;nsref=mg19325884.500)
"....There's a dimmer switch inside the sun that causes its brightness to rise and fall on timescales of around 100,000 years - exactly the same period as between ice ages on Earth. So says a physicist who has created a computer model of our star's core......"

Bobbyrx
02-07-2007, 03:27 PM
Yea, like that new Star Wars defense system that would........no wait that was shot down by the dem...........oh never mind

pooltchr
02-07-2007, 04:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Steve, forget global warming...we might even need it, as we got a new worry:
web page (http://http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/mg19325884.500?DCMP=NLC-nletter&amp;nsref=mg19325884.500)
"....There's a dimmer switch inside the sun that causes its brightness to rise and fall on timescales of around 100,000 years - exactly the same period as between ice ages on Earth. So says a physicist who has created a computer model of our star's core......" <hr /></blockquote>

Ok, so now the sun is responsible for climate changes on our planet. Let's get rid of the sun!!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Steve

Vapros
02-07-2007, 04:42 PM
I found a great new phrase in the current Time Magazine. It's 'competitive indignation'. The writer did not say whether or not he follows this forum.

FatsRedux
02-07-2007, 08:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Or the missing 360 tons of hundred dollar bills that Bremer lost? <hr /></blockquote> I just read about this on the CNN website. Absolutely insane. Why on earth are we shipping billions in cash to a war zone when the money can be transferred electronically. This just seems dumb to me. Now they cannot find it? I am with you on this one Gayle, pure stupidity on Bremers part, and anyone else that went along with this idea.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

C'mon man,you both got it wrong! Truth is it was pretty smart, the plan was take out the Al Qaeda leadership by dropping heavy pallets of c-notes on their head.

Yeesh..do I have to explain everything! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

wolfdancer
02-08-2007, 12:33 AM
competitive indignation
I like it!!!

eg8r
02-08-2007, 06:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
My point however....was that why would you take this one man's
"findings" as proof <hr /></blockquote> I did not post anywhere that I took his "findings" as "proof" of anything. Without reading my post again, I believe I just said I found it "interesting".

[ QUOTE ]
You don't believe that we are fueling global warming...that's your opinion and it's shared by many ....but don't expect anyone with an opposing view to switch because of this guy.
<hr /></blockquote> Once again, I did not ask anyone to make any type of switch. I just found his article interesting and posted it.

[ QUOTE ]
You don't usually read beyond the first line of any post, do you? <hr /></blockquote> Usually I don't need to, the BS rises to the top and I don't need to read any further.

eg8r

eg8r
02-08-2007, 06:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Even the greatest enemy among us (Wal-Mart) is taking steps to cut energy use. They are encouraging employees and customers to convert to the new lower energy light bulbs.
<hr /></blockquote> Those capitalist-facist pigs are only doing that because they know those lower energy light bulbs cost a lot more and the poor cannot afford them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Qtec
02-08-2007, 10:40 AM
If a man's lifespan was a 1000 yrs instead of a 100, there would be less problems. Those making the decisions are interested in short term profits and not in long term solutions on how to deal with 10 billion humans living on the Earth in the near future.

Q

bsmutz
02-08-2007, 01:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Even the greatest enemy among us (Wal-Mart) is taking steps to cut energy use. They are encouraging employees and customers to convert to the new lower energy light bulbs.
<hr /></blockquote> Those capitalist-facist pigs are only doing that because they know those lower energy light bulbs cost a lot more and the poor cannot afford them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>
Actually it's Walmart's way of getting the money back that they are going to have to pay their employees in back wages. I'm sure there will be another intiative soon to get the employees to spend their money on something else at Wal-Mart.

eg8r
02-08-2007, 01:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Actually it's Walmart's way of getting the money back that they are going to have to pay their employees in back wages. <hr /></blockquote> You can't get the money back if the product is too expensive for them to buy.

eg8r