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Cydpkt
02-13-2007, 08:34 AM
I don't understand why there is not a push out rule for 9 ball in the APA. I've been told that it gives the higher ranked players too much of an advantage. Why not allow someone ranked 4 or lower a free coach on a push out? If they decide to kick then mark it as an actual coach. So many players don't know what a push out is, when it is such an important part of the game.

irunrax
02-14-2007, 11:42 AM
I have a problem with several of the rules of the APA. Like no jump cues, no push outs, miss cue on break is a re-break, and a few more i have encountered. Why dont they just say no draw shots, because a lesser ranked player cant do a good draw shot, or no bank shots. They claim to be so fair in their rules, however, why cant a player be allowed to do whatever he/she CAN do to win the game and not be held back. As for the lesser ranked players, i think it will only increase their desire to learn the different tools used in the game.
With that being said i do play in the apa because i like the race format.

Cydpkt
02-14-2007, 02:30 PM
I like playing more than 3 games in one night as well. If I am out with my kitchen pass I like to play. The hadicap system is supposed to equal things out. But take 95% of the APA players and throw them in a 9 ball tourney that is running on a non APA format and those players have a distinct disadvantage. Why do they allow push shots when the balls are frozen? Does anyone else know of a league that allows these "illegal" shots?

pooltchr
02-14-2007, 07:54 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cydpkt:</font><hr> I like playing more than 3 games in one night as well. If I am out with my kitchen pass I like to play. The hadicap system is supposed to equal things out. But take 95% of the APA players and throw them in a 9 ball tourney that is running on a non APA format and those players have a distinct disadvantage. Why do they allow push shots when the balls are frozen? Does anyone else know of a league that allows these "illegal" shots? <hr /></blockquote>

If you are talking about shooting straight at a shot when the cue is frozen to the object ball, there is nothing illegal about it. Frozen balls are addressed in the BCA rules. This is probably one of the most mis-understood rules in the game.

As for the push-out in the APA, I agree. I've been campaigning to get it added for years with no luck.

Steve

jjinfla
02-15-2007, 06:00 AM
Several years ago I sent an e-mail to the APA regarding the push out rule and their response was that the push out favors the better player so they don't use it in order to help the weaker player. Of course I disagree.

I have seen the better 9-ball players, the 8's and 9's, break and leave the cue ball at the end rail where most of the time there is no shot on the 1. The lower player misses the one and the better player runs out or runs to a good safe.

Most weaker players can't kick well whereas the better ones will make contact with the 1 most of the time.

So the way I look at it the lack of a push out after the break was an advantage to the better player.

But then I haven't played in the APA for a few years now so it really doesn't affect me anymore.

I would suggest that if you do not like the rule then by all means contact the APA and let them know. If enough people agree with you then maybe the APA will change it.

But as you say, a lot of people are not familiar with the push out rule and as a result they have no idea they are being screwed.

Ignorance is bliss.

Jake

Cydpkt
02-15-2007, 08:16 AM
I agree. If I am giving up 50+ balls to a player. They only need to roughly make 1 or 2 balls a match to be in contention. That just makes me bring my game. It can also make the lower skilled players burn one of their coaches early in the match. I talked with a few players that will intentionally allow the other player (lower skill level) several looks at the table so they don't get discouraged. But if the several looks are kicks it doesn't help their disposition and makes that player look too cocky.

Snapshot9
02-15-2007, 08:58 AM
First, I don't consider the APA a REAL league, well maybe a league, but without any validity to it.

You know, there is a rumor it was started by some rednecks from Arkansas that were trying to even out the odds .... LOL

Cydpkt
02-15-2007, 09:10 AM
Yes there are many leagues out there. Each has their strong and weak points. The APA is more of a beginners league. That is why they allow the coaching and some sort of handicap system. Why tell someone what they should have done instead of being able to coach them to do the correct thing first? I'm not saying that the APA is the end all be all of leagues. I like to play more than 3 games in one night as well as the challenge the handicap places on me.

irunrax
02-15-2007, 09:14 AM
The APA league here is run by a guy who treats it like his own league. He moves people up or down depending on what he is told by other people or what team the person is on, not on how the person plays. I played a match on sunday and lost by one point to a 3 (this person by the way is a 8 in valley 8ball), although i was giving up 30+ points (in 9ball league), well after the match the womans husband told the league director that i should remain at my current handicap and the league director made the comment that i will never go down. The league director did not even watch the match. The first place team in a league i played last session had the directors wife on the team, however no one went up in skill level, but other teams players handicapps went up. There is in my opinion to much personal decision making and not enough on statistics alone.

Cydpkt
02-15-2007, 09:30 AM
I hope that is not the norm across the board. The problem with doing that is when that team goes to Vegas and a 3 suddenly shoots like a 6, then the whole team can be given the boot. It really is in the teams and leagues best interest to be fair to all players. I am a 9 and it is very rare that I am not giving up points to my opponent. It has made me change my game which has made me a better player. I now have to look for the safety if I don't have a pocket or even play shape for a safety. I don't win every match and there is this 6 that has my number right now. But I will keep playing him until I win. I just don't like one game being the deciding factor in a win or loss. I don't like giving my 9 points away.

Cydpkt
02-15-2007, 04:32 PM
We do have a guy that recently moved here who says that he was a 7 (8 ball) and an 9 (9 ball). When he came in they started him as a 4 in each. My problem is that he manipulates the table so that there are 4-5 innings each game and he just barely wins (most of his matches). He does this to stay at 6 skill level. My thought was to call a safe on every shot to have negative innings by the end of the match. (if you make a ball and call safe you still have to shoot) Regardless of who wins he will move up. If and when he goes to Vegas he will be found out.

cycopath
02-16-2007, 03:57 PM
If he already had an established SL in the APA, it doesn't matter if he moves into a new area that SL travels with him.

Someone should tell the league operator to look up the guy's name and see.

Cydpkt
02-18-2007, 02:34 PM
Thanks. I will let the operator know. I don't know if I truely believe the player and that is why I had not said anything before.