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View Full Version : Is Fran Crimi another name for Fast Larry???



TennesseeJoe
02-16-2007, 07:37 PM
I've always appreciated alternative views on a subject but some really appeared to be antagonistic especially towards Dr. Dave. Is this just tongue in cheek humor or is Fast Larry back?

Rich R.
02-16-2007, 07:58 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TennesseeJoe:</font><hr> I've always appreciated alternative views on a subject but some really appeared to be antagonistic especially towards Dr. Dave. Is this just tongue in cheek humor or is Fast Larry back? <hr /></blockquote>
Joe, Fran Crimi is definitely not Fast Larry. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Fran is a long time pro player and she is one of the ladies responsible for building the WPBA into what it is today.
Fran is also a long time instructor and she is the only female BCA Master Instructor.

I'm sure there is a long list of accomplishments, that I have no knowledge of, but Fran is definitely not Fast Larry.

I won't even comment about Dr. Dave and why he and Fran don't seem to see eye to eye. Personally, I don't read most of his posts and don't understand the ones that I do read. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

TennesseeJoe
02-16-2007, 08:10 PM
Thanks for the quick reply. This was really an innocent question and I apologize for any ill will.

eg8r
02-16-2007, 08:18 PM
Fran is definitely not Fast Larry. Besides that fact that the she is a female and he is not, there are plenty of others. Without listing the mulititude of differences let just say Fran is a well-respected professional pool player and well respected pool instructor. Larry is and never was either of those.

eg8r

Cornerman
02-18-2007, 08:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TennesseeJoe:</font><hr> I've always appreciated alternative views on a subject but some really appeared to be antagonistic especially towards Dr. Dave. Is this just tongue in cheek humor or is Fast Larry back? <hr /></blockquote>Hi Joe. As others have said, Fran Crimi is definitely not FastLarry. And really, the two are not even close.

Fran is a knowledgeable instructor, and a professional player. So, when she writes posts, she has the unique situation from which to report. She understands from a first hand point of view what a student thihnks about, what is good and what works from a teaching standpoint, and what top players do that is different from the average players.

Maybe it's the words come across funny, but if you understand all of that, then certain answers and posts to her can come across oddly (from her point of view, as well as others). Did you guys realize that Fran Crimi is one of the building blocks of this forum? She's not a sometimes hit and run poster who likes to "contribute" when she can. She's about a million times more than that. There's a difference between giving confirmation of what a professional player does as opposed to "contributing opinion."

And there sure as hell is something odd about a relatively newby to internet forums thanking one of the people who is the foundation of this forum for her "contribution." Am I making sense to people?

So, when someone tells her "thanks for contributing," it does and should seem odd. I find it odder that other people dont' get that. Fran has been here longer, and has been in the trenches moreso than most anyone here. "Thanks for contributing" sounds like patting your dog on the head. I think the proper answer should have been, "thanks for the confirmation."

Fred &lt;~~~ but that's just me

wolfdancer
02-18-2007, 09:35 PM
"I won't even comment about Dr. Dave and why he and Fran don't seem to see eye to eye. Personally, I don't read most of his posts and don't understand the ones that I do read"

That there sounds like one of them passive/aggressive remarks about the good Doctor. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I think Dr. Dave has the more analytic approach to discussing the game, Fran, the more practical one.
Growing up on a sheep station in Alice Springs....like MadMac, I didn't have time for no "book learning"...so many of the terms used are over my head....and you say you don't understand any.....but there's others here who enjoy the "technical" part of the game.
Fast Larry has his own way of explaining the game, albeit with a few "zingers" thrown in for "comic relief". I think he'd be a great instructor. Listening to him being interviewed on Richard Aubin's site....when FL gets serious about the game, he has a lot to offer.
Getting back to the scientific approach of Dr. D......Colin could have just put out his break video without comment....but explaining the underlying principles behind his techniques, added greatly to it.
If i had known a few scientific theories like gravitational effects and centripetal forces, when I was learning to ride a bike....I might have saved a few cuts and bruises.
Come to think about it, I grew up in WNY, and wouldn't even know how to shank a sheep.

Deeman3
02-19-2007, 07:08 AM
I hve been on this board with Fran for years and years. She is a great person and a player with a player's perspective. I met Dr. Dave last year. he is a brilliant man but Fran could him the last three or more. He contributes for me by tying some science into the the things we do. Fast Larry is an egocentric idiot who just does driveby posts and is probably struggling with some real mental issues.

It should not be bad that Fran and Dave differ on some ideas. I have to say I trust Fran's knowledge of the actual skill of the game while Dave's science is very solid.

I like both of them.

DeeMan

Rich R.
02-19-2007, 07:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> "I won't even comment about Dr. Dave and why he and Fran don't seem to see eye to eye. Personally, I don't read most of his posts and don't understand the ones that I do read"

That there sounds like one of them passive/aggressive remarks about the good Doctor. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I think Dr. Dave has the more analytic approach to discussing the game, Fran, the more practical one.
Growing up on a sheep station in Alice Springs....like MadMac, I didn't have time for no "book learning"...so many of the terms used are over my head....and you say you don't understand any.....but there's others here who enjoy the "technical" part of the game.
<hr /></blockquote>
Wolfdancer, I don't mean to be "passive/aggressive". I also don't mean that others should avoid Dr. Dave's posts.
I am well past the point where I believe I will ever be a championship player. I play for recreation and enjoyment. If I wanted to study physics, I would look up Dr. Dave and enroll in his class. I prefer to look at things from a practical view and not a scientific view.
I assure you, I didn't mean to knock Dr. Dave. His style just isn't for me.

dr_dave
02-19-2007, 09:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr>I met Dr. Dave last year. he is a brilliant man but Fran could [spot] him the last three or more.<hr /></blockquote>I think that was two years ago. I've gotten a lot better since then.

You better watch your mouth. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The next time I'm visiting family in New Orleans I might have to drive up to Alabama so you can "re-evaluate" my level of play. How much money you got, anyway? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Regards,
Dave

Deeman3
02-19-2007, 09:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>.<hr /></blockquote>I think that was two years ago. I've gotten a lot better since then. <font color="blue"> You are most certainly right and I may have underestimated what two years can accomplish. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif </font color>

You better watch your mouth. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> Is F/L doing a mind meld on you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

The next time I'm visiting family in New Orleans I might have to drive up to Alabama so you can "re-evaluate" my level of play. How much money you got, anyway? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> This is what makes my poor likfe worth living. I am, as we speak, fighting getting moist! I have a little money, a lot of mouth but I remain one of the dinasaurs that will put it all up for grabs. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color>

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

DeeMan
Hates beating guys who have written books....ask 'em... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'll send you a MapQuest. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

dr_dave
02-19-2007, 09:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>You better watch your mouth. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> Is F/L doing a mind meld on you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color><hr /></blockquote><hr /></blockquote>Maybe F/L is Fran Crimi and Dr. Dave ... wouldn't that be quite the magic trick. Maybe there's a little bit of Fast Larry in all of us.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
02-19-2007, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> "I won't even comment about Dr. Dave and why he and Fran don't seem to see eye to eye. Personally, I don't read most of his posts and don't understand the ones that I do read"

That there sounds like one of them passive/aggressive remarks about the good Doctor. /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I think Dr. Dave has the more analytic approach to discussing the game, Fran, the more practical one.
Growing up on a sheep station in Alice Springs....like MadMac, I didn't have time for no "book learning"...so many of the terms used are over my head....and you say you don't understand any.....but there's others here who enjoy the "technical" part of the game.
<hr /></blockquote>
Wolfdancer, I don't mean to be "passive/aggressive". I also don't mean that others should avoid Dr. Dave's posts.
I am well past the point where I believe I will ever be a championship player. I play for recreation and enjoyment. If I wanted to study physics, I would look up Dr. Dave and enroll in his class. I prefer to look at things from a practical view and not a scientific view.
I assure you, I didn't mean to knock Dr. Dave. His style just isn't for me. <hr /></blockquote>Nothing against you personally Rich, but I want to let people know that I think it is unfair and inappropriate to characterize me as just a physics nerd with no practical point of view. Have you read my book or any of my instructional articles? I don't think anything more than a high school education is required to understand them. I'm all about illustrations and examples ... lot's of them. Now, often the conclusions and recommendations are backed up. behind the scenes, by physics and actual experients, but my messages are always practical, very easy to apply, and useful at the table (e.g., the 30-degree rule peace-sign technique and other methods for cue ball control (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=234071&amp;page =0&amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;fpart=&amp;vc=)).

Regards,
Dr. Dave

wolfdancer
02-19-2007, 10:35 AM
Deeman Vs Dr. Dave...trash talking.....mind boggling!!!
It ain't quite McReady Vs Bucktooth ( I lost $300, betting on Keith in that one, Bucktooth getting the orange for a spot)....or like on an old tape of mine, Ronnie Allen Vs Danny D (there's two versions of this one pocket match, and the unabridged version, has all the trash-talking.).....
but, I'm waiting 'till the gloves come off.
And that leads to an actual matchup on the table....inside the iron cage....
Well, Doc ain't probably never had to put up the wife and kids as collateral to cover a bet...so to even up the match, it would have to be 8 ball, played using NYC bar rules, slow cloth, big CB, and a not quite level table, to level the odds.
I might have to go with brain over brawn here....as Dr. D. using his circular slide rule to calculate the effects of temp and humidity, cosines and tangent lines, slope and slop index, etc....science will overcome neanderthal force

Deeman3
02-19-2007, 12:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr>..science will overcome neanderthal force <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> It's just your left dominate, leftleaning brain wolfing (o.k. for Wolfdancers) but you know we'll be dialing you up for the side action. </font color>

DeeMan
notice how few balls Bucktooth misses for cash, even if he does have to have a lot of weight? Same for his partner in crime, Harry Platus....

Deeman3
02-19-2007, 12:07 PM
Did anyone from Atlanta send me a package last week? I know I gave out my address and this box is, like, got a ticking sort of noise....Oh! and it smells like, dog doo!!!!

Deeman
who do I know in Atlanta with no return address?

Rich R.
02-19-2007, 07:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Nothing against you personally Rich, but I want to let people know that I think it is unfair and inappropriate to characterize me as just a physics nerd with no practical point of view. Have you read my book or any of my instructional articles? I don't think anything more than a high school education is required to understand them. I'm all about illustrations and examples ... lot's of them. Now, often the conclusions and recommendations are backed up. behind the scenes, by physics and actual experients, but my messages are always practical, very easy to apply, and useful at the table (e.g., the 30-degree rule peace-sign technique and other methods for cue ball control (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=234071&amp;page =0&amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;fpart=&amp;vc=)).<hr /></blockquote>
Talk about "passive/aggressive"! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Dr. Dave, are you saying that I can not read at the
high school level? If so, I assure you that you are not correct.

Although I have not read your book, and doubt that I ever will, I have attempted to read your instructional articles, including the illustrations. I have yet to finish one of them. I will repeat, if you didn't get it the first time, your style is just not for me. This is not a knock, just a fact of life. I'm sure many others enjoy your articles, but I am just as sure that some of us don't. That is something we will all have to live with.

wolfdancer
02-19-2007, 08:40 PM
Rich, he just meant that the articles themselves weren't that "nerdy" as to require a degree in Physics... "and anybody with a H.s. ed"....is just a generalization...although it lets me out of the loop.

Cornerman
02-20-2007, 05:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Nothing against you personally Rich, but I want to let people know that I think it is unfair and inappropriate to characterize me as just a physics nerd with no practical point of view.<hr /></blockquote>My goodness. Not only is this uber passive aggressive, but it's a strawman to boot.

By accusing RichR of "characterizing you as a physics nerd with no practical point of view," you've thrown this discussion completely out the window with no chance at getting any kind of benefit from it.

He said that your style (of instructional) isn't for him. It was a response when Jack/Wolfdancer "wrote I think Dr. Dave has the more analytic approach to discussing the game, Fran, the more practical one," which RichR. quoted.

Nowhere did he say anything about you being a physics nerd or not having a practical point of view.

Fred

dr_dave
02-20-2007, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Nothing against you personally Rich, but I want to let people know that I think it is unfair and inappropriate to characterize me as just a physics nerd with no practical point of view. Have you read my book or any of my instructional articles? I don't think anything more than a high school education is required to understand them. I'm all about illustrations and examples ... lot's of them. Now, often the conclusions and recommendations are backed up. behind the scenes, by physics and actual experients, but my messages are always practical, very easy to apply, and useful at the table (e.g., the 30-degree rule peace-sign technique and other methods for cue ball control (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=234071&amp;page =0&amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;fpart=&amp;vc=)).<hr /></blockquote>
Talk about "passive/aggressive"! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Dr. Dave, are you saying that I can not read at the
high school level? If so, I assure you that you are not correct.

Although I have not read your book, and doubt that I ever will, I have attempted to read your instructional articles, including the illustrations. I have yet to finish one of them. I will repeat, if you didn't get it the first time, your style is just not for me. This is not a knock, just a fact of life. I'm sure many others enjoy your articles, but I am just as sure that some of us don't. That is something we will all have to live with. <hr /></blockquote>Fair enough.

Regards,
Dr. Dave

dr_dave
02-20-2007, 08:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Nothing against you personally Rich, but I want to let people know that I think it is unfair and inappropriate to characterize me as just a physics nerd with no practical point of view.<hr /></blockquote>My goodness. Not only is this uber passive aggressive, but it's a strawman to boot.

By accusing RichR of "characterizing you as a physics nerd with no practical point of view," you've thrown this discussion completely out the window with no chance at getting any kind of benefit from it.

He said that your style (of instructional) isn't for him. It was a response when Jack/Wolfdancer "wrote I think Dr. Dave has the more analytic approach to discussing the game, Fran, the more practical one," which RichR. quoted.

Nowhere did he say anything about you being a physics nerd or not having a practical point of view.<hr /></blockquote>Fred,

Here are some excerpts from Rich's posts to which I was responding:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>I won't even comment about Dr. Dave and why he and Fran don't seem to see eye to eye. Personally, I don't read most of his posts and don't understand the ones that I do read ...

... If I wanted to study physics, I would look up Dr. Dave and enroll in his class. I prefer to look at things from a practical view ...<hr /></blockquote>
Maybe I was a little defensive, but I'm starting to get a little tired of people trying to pigeonhole me and accuse me of passive-aggressive postings. I guess I should just learn to "take it like a man." You would think my skin would be thick enough by now, after all of this time on the CCB. It's certainly thicker than it used to be. I think I've learned as much about interpersonal communication and personality types on this forum as I have about pool.

Fred, I wish I understood why you seem to have a hard time with me. I honestly have tremendous respect for your knowledge and experience as a good player, and I have learned from many of your postings. I just wish you didn't have such a negative tone towards me in practically every reply you have ever written to me, from day one ... and there have been many. I would be happy to talk things out with you. Feel free to PM me if you want to set up a phone conversation.

Peace,
Dave

pooltchr
02-20-2007, 10:14 AM
Dave,
As an instructor, I have learned that individuals learn best in different ways. Some of my students need to know why something happens in order to grasp the concept. Others just need to do it themselves to see the result. Still others need to see it demonstrated for them. No one way will work for everyone.
Personally, I don't need much of the information you provide in order to learn. Coefficients, formulas, etc just go right by me. On the other hand, I need to have some of this knowledge to teach some of my students.
So while the technical aspects don't serve me as a player, I understand the importance of this kind of information for some players.
Accept that much of what you offer may not be for everyone, but is a valuable resource for others. It's nothing personal against you, but personal for those who can or can not make use of the technical aspects of the game. Your book and web site is a valuable resource for many...just not for everybody.
Keep on doing what you do.
Steve

dr_dave
02-20-2007, 10:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Dave,
As an instructor, I have learned that individuals learn best in different ways. Some of my students need to know why something happens in order to grasp the concept. Others just need to do it themselves to see the result. Still others need to see it demonstrated for them. No one way will work for everyone.
Personally, I don't need much of the information you provide in order to learn. Coefficients, formulas, etc just go right by me. On the other hand, I need to have some of this knowledge to teach some of my students.
So while the technical aspects don't serve me as a player, I understand the importance of this kind of information for some players.
Accept that much of what you offer may not be for everyone, but is a valuable resource for others. It's nothing personal against you, but personal for those who can or can not make use of the technical aspects of the game. Your book and web site is a valuable resource for many...just not for everybody.
Keep on doing what you do.<hr /></blockquote>Steve,

Thanks for the message. As usual, well stated.

I think part of the miscommunication lies in what different people think is "technical." I personally don't think of the fundamental knowledge of the game as technical. Although, I do agree that the physics and math behind some of the knowledge is. I don't expect many people out there to be interested in the math and physics stuff. However, I would think most people would be interested in the basic understanding stuff (e.g., ghost-ball aiming techniques, 90 degree rule, 30 degree rule, basics of squirt/throw/swerve, etc.). I suspect this stuff can be useful to almost everyone (especially beginner and intermediate players). That's the emphasis of my book and most of my articles.

Thanks,
Dave

Cornerman
02-20-2007, 11:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>

Here are some excerpts from Rich's posts to which I was responding:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>I won't even comment about Dr. Dave and why he and Fran don't seem to see eye to eye. Personally, I don't read most of his posts and don't understand the ones that I do read ...

... If I wanted to study physics, I would look up Dr. Dave and enroll in his class. I prefer to look at things from a practical view ...<hr /></blockquote>
Maybe I was a little defensive, but I'm starting to get a little tired of people trying to pigeonhole me and accuse me of passive-aggressive postings. <hr /></blockquote>Either you're passive aggressive, or you are so over defensive that you fail to read posts that aren't going so quick that you'd miss them. Why didn't you quote the part that RichR was answering??? If you did, then your post makes little sense. If you read this far, please prove it by writing the word 'be' as the first in your retort. RichR wasn't calling you a physics nerd. If anyone was, Wolfdancer was. But, Wolfdancer said it in a happy go lucky style, so you didn't take it as an insult (and you shouldhn't). RichR didn't call you anything, yet you took it as an insult. And here you are without any hint of admitting that you read it wrong. Wow.




<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dr. Dave:</font><hr>I guess I should just learn to "take it like a man." You would think my skin would be thick enough by now, after all of this time on the CCB.<hr /></blockquote>

You cannot grow thick skin, despite anybody's claims to do so. It would take years of therapy or medication to simply turn a person's attitude around. Everything to you if it's not a ringing endorsement of your hard work you treat as an insult. There's no skin-growing miracle for you.

If someone compliments you, you put too much effort to thank them. There's a psychological name for that. I'm sure Fancher would have a field day with you. And if you read this far, please write the word 'like' second.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dr. Dave:</font><hr>Fred, I wish I understood why you seem to have a hard time with me. I honestly have tremendous respect for your knowledge and experience as a good player, and I have learned from many of your postings. <hr /></blockquote>I've told you many times in the past. You post in too much of a teaching voice. And you can't take criticism well. You have a martyrdom syndrome when more than one person disagrees with you. If people disagree with you, you raise your teaching voice, so to speak. You have less experience than many of the posters here, and it shows. But, you seem to be the only one that doesn't realize it.

Look how quickly became defensive when SPetty wrote "I wish I had friends like you here." You got so crazy defensive and insulted that you actually wrote that post down without thinking what she was saying. Please write 'Mike' as your third word.She wasn't talking about you or you videos. But, you got all defensive???

My "knowledge and experience" is limited. I don't pretend to know all, but what I have has its place. Where my knowledge and experience is, you're not at, and it's obvious. Where your knowledge and experience is, I"m not at. Where Fran's knowledge and experience is, we're not at. When Fran speaks, I listen, bearing in mind where she's coming from and how it makes sense in the entire pool puzzle. When I speak, I know damned well that she listens, bearing in mind where I'm coming from. We may have differences of opinions, but we always work through why we think differently.

You're not like that. You never have been, and it was like that upon your first arrival. You seem to want to press your opinion, even if it doesn't gel with experienced players' thinking.

And in the end, if you can't understand how irritating it is for you to say "thanks for contributing," then none of what I said above means diddly.

You asked for this answer. And it's not new. I fully expect that you will now hurl insults at me in some kind of retalitation, even though I don't have to bother asking you or anyone what they feel about me. I already know. I'm a straight shooting [censored], and I don't suffer lack of reading comprehension and insecurities. I don't suffer teacher syndrome. And I don't suffer posters who act like newbies years after their first post. And to this day, you still post like a newby.

My apologies to any of my friends or enemies that I may have insulted or whose time I just wasted in my drivel.

Fred &lt;~~~ [censored] of the first order

wolfdancer
02-20-2007, 11:46 AM
There are many other names for Fast Larry...some can't be repeated in mixed company...lol....but Fran Crimi is not one of them.
I'd rather banter with Fast here, about pool (and I'd expect a few laughable insults) then deal with the npr politics.
"Bring Back FL" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

dr_dave
02-20-2007, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr>
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>

Here are some excerpts from Rich's posts to which I was responding:
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>I won't even comment about Dr. Dave and why he and Fran don't seem to see eye to eye. Personally, I don't read most of his posts and don't understand the ones that I do read ...

... If I wanted to study physics, I would look up Dr. Dave and enroll in his class. I prefer to look at things from a practical view ...<hr /></blockquote>
Maybe I was a little defensive, but I'm starting to get a little tired of people trying to pigeonhole me and accuse me of passive-aggressive postings. <hr /></blockquote>Either you're passive aggressive, or you are so over defensive that you fail to read posts that aren't going so quick that you'd miss them. Why didn't you quote the part that RichR was answering??? If you did, then your post makes little sense. If you read this far, please prove it by writing the word 'be' as the first in your retort. RichR wasn't calling you a physics nerd. If anyone was, Wolfdancer was. But, Wolfdancer said it in a happy go lucky style, so you didn't take it as an insult (and you shouldhn't). RichR didn't call you anything, yet you took it as an insult. And here you are without any hint of admitting that you read it wrong. Wow.




<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dr. Dave:</font><hr>I guess I should just learn to "take it like a man." You would think my skin would be thick enough by now, after all of this time on the CCB.<hr /></blockquote>

You cannot grow thick skin, despite anybody's claims to do so. It would take years of therapy or medication to simply turn a person's attitude around. Everything to you if it's not a ringing endorsement of your hard work you treat as an insult. There's no skin-growing miracle for you.

If someone compliments you, you put too much effort to thank them. There's a psychological name for that. I'm sure Fancher would have a field day with you. And if you read this far, please write the word 'like' second.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dr. Dave:</font><hr>Fred, I wish I understood why you seem to have a hard time with me. I honestly have tremendous respect for your knowledge and experience as a good player, and I have learned from many of your postings. <hr /></blockquote>I've told you many times in the past. You post in too much of a teaching voice. And you can't take criticism well. You have a martyrdom syndrome when more than one person disagrees with you. If people disagree with you, you raise your teaching voice, so to speak. You have less experience than many of the posters here, and it shows. But, you seem to be the only one that doesn't realize it.

Look how quickly became defensive when SPetty wrote "I wish I had friends like you here." You got so crazy defensive and insulted that you actually wrote that post down without thinking what she was saying. Please write 'Mike' as your third word.She wasn't talking about you or you videos. But, you got all defensive???

My "knowledge and experience" is limited. I don't pretend to know all, but what I have has its place. Where my knowledge and experience is, you're not at, and it's obvious. Where your knowledge and experience is, I"m not at. Where Fran's knowledge and experience is, we're not at. When Fran speaks, I listen, bearing in mind where she's coming from and how it makes sense in the entire pool puzzle. When I speak, I know damned well that she listens, bearing in mind where I'm coming from. We may have differences of opinions, but we always work through why we think differently.

You're not like that. You never have been, and it was like that upon your first arrival. You seem to want to press your opinion, even if it doesn't gel with experienced players' thinking.

And in the end, if you can't understand how irritating it is for you to say "thanks for contributing," then none of what I said above means diddly.

You asked for this answer. And it's not new. I fully expect that you will now hurl insults at me in some kind of retalitation, even though I don't have to bother asking you or anyone what they feel about me. I already know. I'm a straight shooting [censored], and I don't suffer lack of reading comprehension and insecurities. I don't suffer teacher syndrome. And I don't suffer posters who act like newbies years after their first post. And to this day, you still post like a newby.

My apologies to any of my friends or enemies that I may have insulted or whose time I just wasted in my drivel.

Fred &lt;~~~ [censored] of the first order <hr /></blockquote>
Wow! (Oh, excuse me ... "be like Mike" /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

Now I know where you stand in no uncertain terms. Thank you for being totally clear.

I still hope we can continue to participate in civil debate on important topics in the future, because I also don't always agree with your views (or those of Fran) ... although, I often do.

Regards,
Dave

PS: BTW, my reply to SPetty had nothing to do with me. I thought she was accusing wolfdancer of doing something wrong. Based on SPetty's reply, I now know that I misinterpreted her implications (i.e., I was wrong). Sorry about that SPetty.

wolfdancer
02-20-2007, 12:15 PM
Fred, i may have moved the thread "off point" a bit, without trying to do so.
I think we're all trying to contribute here a bit, and share our passion for the game. You, Fran, and Dr. Dave have all acquired knowledge of the game, via somewhat different routes.....however I can read into any of your respective posts...and take away something that sounds beneficial, and discard the rest.
I hope the acrimony from the NPR section here...isn't going to pollute the pool section as well.
As Vince said to Fast Eddie in COM..."you're getting kind of personal here"..
Nobody needs to be "dressed down" in public...I'd have hoped you would have saved some of your comments for a pm.....just my thoughts on the matter.

wolfdancer
02-20-2007, 12:23 PM
"What we have here is a failure to communicate"
We seem to be reading into people's posts....something that isn't there......
Too many good folks been run off the board already,over that.....

BRussell
02-20-2007, 01:05 PM
Wow. A quick read of this article in today's NY Times (subscription required) might be useful: Flame First, Think Later: New Clues to E-Mail Misbehavior (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/20/health/psychology/20essa.html?_r=1&amp;ref=science&amp;oref=slogin).

[ QUOTE ]
This work points to a design flaw inherent in the interface between the brain’s social circuitry and the online world. In face-to-face interaction, the brain reads a continual cascade of emotional signs and social cues, instantaneously using them to guide our next move so that the encounter goes well. Much of this social guidance occurs in circuitry centered on the orbitofrontal cortex, a center for empathy. This cortex uses that social scan to help make sure that what we do next will keep the interaction on track.

Research by Jennifer Beer, a psychologist at the University of California, Davis, finds that this face-to-face guidance system inhibits impulses for actions that would upset the other person or otherwise throw the interaction off. Neurological patients with a damaged orbitofrontal cortex lose the ability to modulate the amygdala, a source of unruly impulses; like small children, they commit mortifying social gaffes like kissing a complete stranger, blithely unaware that they are doing anything untoward.

Socially artful responses emerge largely in the neural chatter between the orbitofrontal cortex and emotional centers like the amygdala that generate impulsivity. But the cortex needs social information — a change in tone of voice, say — to know how to select and channel our impulses. And in e-mail there are no channels for voice, facial expression or other cues from the person who will receive what we say.<hr /></blockquote>

In other words, communicating over the internet without the benefit of face-to-face contact is a bit like communicating with brain damage. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

dr_dave
02-20-2007, 01:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> "What we have here is a failure to communicate"
We seem to be reading into people's posts....something that isn't there......<hr /></blockquote>I hope that's all it is.

Regards,
Dave

PS: That's one of my favorite movie quotes of all time (from "Cool Hand Luke"); alhtough, it doesn't read that well without a great Lousisana accent.

wolfdancer
02-20-2007, 02:24 PM
that's a gret article....now if only I understood the big words...
The anonymity of the internet seems to promote abandoning the normal social conventions and civility, that most discussions are governed by.I can't believe some of these statements expressed here....would be said in a face to face situation. One might have to first take into consideration, Roy D. Mercer's tag line "How big a boy are you"
thanks for the link....

Cornerman
02-21-2007, 06:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Fred, i may have moved the thread "off point" a bit, without trying to do so.
I think we're all trying to contribute here a bit, and share our passion for the game. You, Fran, and Dr. Dave have all acquired knowledge of the game, via somewhat different routes.....however I can read into any of your respective posts...and take away something that sounds beneficial, and discard the rest.<hr /></blockquote> That my friend is all anyone can ask. And if you decide to discard something that doesn't work for, that doesn't apply to you, and doesn't make sense to you.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wolfdancer:</font><hr>
As Vince said to Fast Eddie in COM..."you're getting kind of personal here"..
Nobody needs to be "dressed down" in public...I'd have hoped you would have saved some of your comments for a pm.....just my thoughts on the matter. <hr /></blockquote>I hear you, Jack. But I can't apologize for this. Sometimes, things get personal.

Other than that, I was asked, and I answered in the same way that I would say it to everyone on here if we were in a round table discussion face-to-face. I try not to be a rumor monger or a backstabber. I was asked, and I think the board needs to know how I (and others, let's not forget) feel.

Fred

Cornerman
02-21-2007, 06:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Wow! (Oh, excuse me ... "be like Mike" /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)<hr /></blockquote>Thank you.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dr. Dave:</font><hr> I still hope we can continue to participate in civil debate on important topics in the future, because I also don't always agree with your views (or those of Fran) ... although, I often do. <hr /></blockquote>One of your supporters and friends has asked me why I get on your case so much. And the answer is simple. Because of your stature and your overwhelming technical knowledge, there are going to be a large number of internet readers that are going to believe anything you say on technical matters without question. And to the technical points, that might be all well and good since most of us cannot even begin to comprehend the technical discussion on a level that would be fair to you. Fortunately, there are those that can at least have a halfway or more decent technical conversation with you and if they are so inclined, they will engage, pro or con. That is, there is a check. Jal for one poster. Bob Jewett for another. I wish Ron Shepard and Mike Page read and posted here, as they've been doing the technical internet discussion thing longer than anyone else (apart from Bob).

Because of your writing, your website, and your posting, the idea that people will believe what you write instructionally without question obviously has leaked over into areas that are not your areas of expertise. A lot of your instructional material is very good. Some of it sucks. To those areas, more people can, should, and will hold you in check.

Do people always have to call you on the carpet? Absolutely, especially when it seems that people are accepting things that you say without question. It comes with the stature you've (rightfully) built for yourself. You write like a teacher, so it comes off that your trying to instruct rather than opine. And it needs to be checked. If I'm the only one that rubs you the wrong way due to my brutally to-the-point nature, that's fine with me. I don't mind looking like an ass.

Note to everyone else, if I have ever try to come across as an authority on anything, and you have actual experience and expertise to contradict me, you MUST put me in check. The last thing I'd want is for anyone being some kind of lemming following some foolhardy thing I may have been wrong about. And I've been wrong about plenty of things, directly related to playing the game.

You can Google all the times that I was sure that:

Speed in of itself shortened banks shot
More contact time with the tip was important if you wanted to "juice the ball"
Fractional aiming was a farce
JimBo was an ass. (oh wait, I was right about that one)
Inside English was more difficult
The top women could never compete with the top men

etc.

Fred

Fran Crimi
02-21-2007, 07:13 AM
I'm just going to jump in here and say that I back up everything Fred has said. We HAVE to check each other in order for the right information to get to the public. I have warranted checking on several occasions over the years and often Fred has done the dirty deed, and with my appreciation.

However, every attempt that I can think of where I've tried to challenge or check something Dave has said, I wound up frustrated and walking away throwing my hands in the air. And that whole "Why are people picking on me" thing that Dave does gets old. He's a professional, for cripes sake! Buck up! I've tried to explain to Dave on occasion the importance of recognizing the responsibilities that go along with being a professional, only to fall on deaf ears. In fact, one of our biggest blow-ups a year or so ago was about that very thing. I walked away feeling that nothing was accomplished other than Dave complaining he was being abused and others running to his rescue. It was pathetically sad.


I've always gotten the feeling that Dave would rather people like myself (when we challenge him) would just go away and leave him in peace to do his thing here on the CCB and with his book and with his website. That will not happen because it's too important for the right information to get to the public, even if it makes people like myself and Fred look like the bad guys. Then so be it.


Dave you've complained here about my not giving you respect. Well give a little, first. It's earned. I'll give you a clue: You don't respect someone just because you say you respect them. You have to show it.


Fran

dr_dave
02-21-2007, 07:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cornerman:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Wow! (Oh, excuse me ... "be like Mike" /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)<hr /></blockquote>Thank you.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Dr. Dave:</font><hr> I still hope we can continue to participate in civil debate on important topics in the future, because I also don't always agree with your views (or those of Fran) ... although, I often do. <hr /></blockquote>One of your supporters and friends has asked me why I get on your case so much. And the answer is simple. Because of your stature and your overwhelming technical knowledge, there are going to be a large number of internet readers that are going to believe anything you say on technical matters without question. And to the technical points, that might be all well and good since most of us cannot even begin to comprehend the technical discussion on a level that would be fair to you. Fortunately, there are those that can at least have a halfway or more decent technical conversation with you and if they are so inclined, they will engage, pro or con. That is, there is a check. Jal for one poster. Bob Jewett for another. I wish Ron Shepard and Mike Page read and posted here, as they've been doing the technical internet discussion thing longer than anyone else (apart from Bob).

Because of your writing, your website, and your posting, the idea that people will believe what you write instructionally without question obviously has leaked over into areas that are not your areas of expertise. A lot of your instructional material is very good. Some of it sucks. To those areas, more people can, should, and will hold you in check.

Do people always have to call you on the carpet? Absolutely, especially when it seems that people are accepting things that you say without question. It comes with the stature you've (rightfully) built for yourself. You write like a teacher, so it comes off that your trying to instruct rather than opine. And it needs to be checked. If I'm the only one that rubs you the wrong way due to my brutally to-the-point nature, that's fine with me. I don't mind looking like an ass.

Note to everyone else, if I have ever try to come across as an authority on anything, and you have actual experience and expertise to contradict me, you MUST put me in check. The last thing I'd want is for anyone being some kind of lemming following some foolhardy thing I may have been wrong about. And I've been wrong about plenty of things, directly related to playing the game.

You can Google all the times that I was sure that:

Speed in of itself shortened banks shot
More contact time with the tip was important if you wanted to "juice the ball"
Fractional aiming was a farce
JimBo was an ass. (oh wait, I was right about that one)
Inside English was more difficult
The top women could never compete with the top men

etc.<hr /></blockquote>
Fred,

Thank you very much for this follow-up. I thought it was very well stated, and I agree completely with your message. That's what this forum is all about ... sharing knowledge and information, learning from each other, and keeping each other honest and appropriate.

I look forward to continued heated debate on important topics of interest in the future.

Respectfully,
Dave

Chopstick
02-21-2007, 08:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Did anyone from Atlanta send me a package last week? I know I gave out my address and this box is, like, got a ticking sort of noise....Oh! and it smells like, dog doo!!!!

Deeman
who do I know in Atlanta with no return address? <hr /></blockquote>


LOL. You're kidding right? Did he really do that? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Deeman3
02-21-2007, 09:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> Did anyone from Atlanta send me a package last week? I know I gave out my address and this box is, like, got a ticking sort of noise....Oh! and it smells like, dog doo!!!!

Deeman
who do I know in Atlanta with no return address? <hr /></blockquote>


LOL. You're kidding right? Did he really do that? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Naw, but I gotta keep the flames brewing for that time, in the near future, where he and I will be at the same venue, I'll be wearing my t-shirt (soon to be available at cost) and I will produce money and he will hit me or slither away. Chopstick, I just can't help myself. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif </font color>

In the order of Dr. Dave, Fred and Fran. I should keep quiet but, you all know me:

Fred's thoughts above are dead on. Fran as well. I have met, respect and like Dave. He is a good and very smart man. The work he has done for some of the technical discussions in pool, overall, are a positive thing. The danger is in an asumption by many that technical knowledge in the physics of the game translates automatically into complete knoweldge of the game, it's instruction and application. Fred and Fran, along with a few others on here have contributed much to the knowledge base that would not be there from simple links to videos and "human" abilities to learn an articulated, complex game at the intuitive level. The 30 degree rule, for instance, is a good thing for beginners to know. It is a nice rough reference to start someone to understand a portion of cueball control. It is important that people know this to a degree to build their knowledge base. It, and science, while explaining the obvious variations and applications of that one little "reminder" rule, do not approach the feel and intuitive knowledge that is required to play the game at a very high level.

The only small dangers are that:

People will assume that Dr. Dave, while a brilliant guy, is a know-all, end-all answer. I don't accuse Dave of that! I do think he tends to think of himself as "The Moderator" of most technical discussions while I see him as a great back board and feedback on thoughts. For those of you not here that long, Fred has contributed much to the CCB in terms of knowledge as has Fran and Bob. How many years has Fred been telling me things like, "Nope, DeeMan that is not correct!" How many times has Fran offered advice to many she will never meet? Too many times to count.

I want Dr. Dave here and like his discipline to "collect" all the balls at the end of the table so we have a nice reference and don't have to discuss "What is throw?" for umteenth time. At the same time, If Fred and Fran did not keep me, you and Dr. Dave challenged on certain technical topics and advised on many non-technical area where others can't carry their chalk, this would be a much poorer discussion platform.

This is not a mutual love association, it's pool discussion forum and if we take anyone's advice in all areas because they have expertice in specific science makes you the mark in the room.....

DeeMan

dr_dave
02-21-2007, 09:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>...I've always gotten the feeling that Dave would rather people like myself (when we challenge him) would just go away and leave him in peace to do his thing here on the CCB and with his book and with his website. ...<hr /></blockquote>
Fran,

I'm sorry you feel this way. It couldn't be farther from the truth. I think the fact that you think this is a reflection on you, not on me. I'm sorry if you take offense from this (in fact, you might even think this is "active aggression"), but I think it is well deserved.

I do have tremendous respect for both you and Fred, and I have learned a great deal from both of you through this forum. I have disagreed with you at times, sometimes strongly, and I may have refused to come over to your side, but that in no way means I don't respect and appreciate you and your opinions.

Please continue to challenge me and keep me honest. I will continue to do the same for you. Isn't that why we are here ... to share with, learn from, and challenge each another?

Peace,
Dave

Voodoo Daddy
02-21-2007, 09:42 AM
Dont matter who says what...there are the needy, the fence-sitters and the staunch believers following certain folks. My dough is on Fran in all aspects of pool, knowledge, ability to relay the knowledge and lastly if its a long...LONG race its all Fran. Dave, you mean well but who have you beat? Who have you taught? Other than your education {which I respect} what are your true credentials? I know I'm not a fan favorite here on CCB but the truth is anyone that groups Fran in with Dave or FL should have the fuggin head examined!!

Voodoo~~~nuff said, back under my rock

dr_dave
02-21-2007, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr>In the order of Dr. Dave, Fred and Fran. I should keep quiet but, you all know me:

Fred's thoughts above are dead on. Fran as well. I have met, respect and like Dave. He is a good and very smart man. The work he has done for some of the technical discussions in pool, overall, are a positive thing. The danger is in an asumption by many that technical knowledge in the physics of the game translates automatically into complete knoweldge of the game, it's instruction and application. Fred and Fran, along with a few others on here have contributed much to the knowledge base that would not be there from simple links to videos and "human" abilities to learn an articulated, complex game at the intuitive level. The 30 degree rule, for instance, is a good thing for beginners to know. It is a nice rough reference to start someone to understand a portion of cueball control. It is important that people know this to a degree to build their knowledge base. It, and science, while explaining the obvious variations and applications of that one little "reminder" rule, do not approach the feel and intuitive knowledge that is required to play the game at a very high level.

The only small dangers are that:

People will assume that Dr. Dave, while a brilliant guy, is a know-all, end-all answer. I don't accuse Dave of that! I do think he tends to think of himself as "The Moderator" of most technical discussions while I see him as a great back board and feedback on thoughts. For those of you not here that long, Fred has contributed much to the CCB in terms of knowledge as has Fran and Bob. How many years has Fred been telling me things like, "Nope, DeeMan that is not correct!" How many times has Fran offered advice to many she will never meet? Too many times to count.

I want Dr. Dave here and like his discipline to "collect" all the balls at the end of the table so we have a nice reference and don't have to discuss "What is throw?" for umteenth time. At the same time, If Fred and Fran did not keep me, you and Dr. Dave challenged on certain technical topics and advised on many non-technical area where others can't carry their chalk, this would be a much poorer discussion platform.

This is not a mutual love association, it's pool discussion forum and if we take anyone's advice in all areas because they have expertice in specific science makes you the mark in the room.....<hr /></blockquote>
Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap, Tap !!!!!!!

As usual, the D-man finds a way to cut through all of the crap and tell it like it is.

Believe it or not, I agree 100% with everything you wrote (except I do think the subtleties and possibilities of the 30-degree rule are more powerful than you think).

Thank you for doing such a good job recognizing everybody's strengths and contributions.

You da man,
Dave

Stretch
02-21-2007, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> Dont matter who says what...there are the needy, the fence-sitters and the staunch believers following certain folks. My dough is on Fran in all aspects of pool, knowledge, ability to relay the knowledge and lastly if its a long...LONG race its all Fran. Dave, you mean well but who have you beat? Who have you taught? Other than your education {which I respect} what are your true credentials? I know I'm not a fan favorite here on CCB but the truth is anyone that groups Fran in with Dave or FL should have the fuggin head examined!!

Voodoo~~~nuff said, back under my rock <hr /></blockquote>

Tap tap tap's the rock with his cue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif St.

Fran Crimi
02-21-2007, 12:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Please continue to challenge me and keep me honest. I will continue to do the same for you. Isn't that why we are here ... to share with, learn from, and challenge each another?

<hr /></blockquote>

I gotta say it again..... You're kidding, right?

I'm stating the obvious, but okay, if I must....We wouldn't be here, with things having to come to this point if only you would have practiced what you preach in your above quote.

As for your intent to "settle with Fran" there's nothing to settle here, Dave. This is not a contract negotiation. What you do here in the future will determine for me whether or not to believe if you are sincere. I think my sincerity is evident.


Fran

wolfdancer
02-21-2007, 12:25 PM
Other than that, I was asked, and I answered in the same way that I would say it to everyone on here if we were in a round table discussion face-to-face.

Fair enough!!

Eric.
02-21-2007, 02:02 PM
Sounds like what Deeman was implying over a few posts is that while some things "look great on paper", they are just theory, versus experience and ability, which would be "proof positive" because you know it works in reality. Without the "proof positive", the rest is just an educated guess.

I've always been skeptical about a lot of stuff posted on the Internet. Just because some thing or someone is published, doesn't make them any sort of authority.


Eric

dr_dave
02-21-2007, 02:23 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr><blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>Please continue to challenge me and keep me honest. I will continue to do the same for you. Isn't that why we are here ... to share with, learn from, and challenge each another?<hr /></blockquote>We wouldn't be here, with things having to come to this point if only you would have practiced what you preach in your above quote.

As for your intent to "settle with Fran" there's nothing to settle here, Dave. This is not a contract negotiation. What you do here in the future will determine for me whether or not to believe if you are sincere. I think my sincerity is evident.<hr /></blockquote>I don't know what else to say, other than I'll try to be more aware of and sensitive to your concerns. I think my last post (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=245472&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1) (from which you quoted) said everything I wanted to say.

Here's to a new start,
Dave

MrLucky
02-21-2007, 03:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TennesseeJoe:</font><hr> Thanks for the quick reply. This was really an innocent question and I apologize for any ill will. <hr /></blockquote> <font color="green"> I at one time thought the same thing, however i did the research and they just both have similar posting tendencies when they do not agree with someones ideas. but no they are not the same person ! </font color>

dr_dave
02-21-2007, 03:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> Sounds like what Deeman was implying over a few posts is that while some things "look great on paper", they are just theory, versus experience and ability, which would be "proof positive" because you know it works in reality. Without the "proof positive", the rest is just an educated guess.

I've always been skeptical about a lot of stuff posted on the Internet. Just because some thing or someone is published, doesn't make them any sort of authority.<hr /></blockquote>
No disagreements here. Theory isn't much use if it isn't put to practice. And I agree, there is a lot of garbage out there on the Internet and in print.

Regards,
Dave

wolfdancer
02-21-2007, 03:56 PM
Deeman, yours was a great post on this misconstrued "intercourse discourse"......
I'll repeat my "original" quote
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some (people) you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week ........"
Since I prefer a more heuristic, rather than empirical knowledge, approach to the game...some of the topics I equate with my readings of Shakespeare....
I'd get the plot, but couldn't figure out WTF was just said.
For the record, I don't think anyone owes anyone an apology, and I'm sorry to see that Dr. D.'s wasn't accepted...I'll be sending copies of Emily Post to the parties involved......

SpiderMan
02-21-2007, 05:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> I'm just going to jump in here and say that I back up everything Fred has said. We HAVE to check each other in order for the right information to get to the public. I have warranted checking on several occasions over the years and often Fred has done the dirty deed, and with my appreciation.

However, every attempt that I can think of where I've tried to challenge or check something Dave has said, I wound up frustrated and walking away throwing my hands in the air. And that whole "Why are people picking on me" thing that Dave does gets old. He's a professional, for cripes sake! Buck up! I've tried to explain to Dave on occasion the importance of recognizing the responsibilities that go along with being a professional, only to fall on deaf ears. In fact, one of our biggest blow-ups a year or so ago was about that very thing. I walked away feeling that nothing was accomplished other than Dave complaining he was being abused and others running to his rescue. It was pathetically sad.


I've always gotten the feeling that Dave would rather people like myself (when we challenge him) would just go away and leave him in peace to do his thing here on the CCB and with his book and with his website. That will not happen because it's too important for the right information to get to the public, even if it makes people like myself and Fred look like the bad guys. Then so be it.


Dave you've complained here about my not giving you respect. Well give a little, first. It's earned. I'll give you a clue: You don't respect someone just because you say you respect them. You have to show it.


Fran <hr /></blockquote>

In a recent extended discussion, where we disagreed regarding a potential foul in an online video, I felt that Dr Dave did ultimately yield in an amicable fashion. Prior to that, I too had felt that he'd become considerably less open-minded than in years past, but probably I judged too quickly. We all go through phases and moods, don't we?

I certainly don't fault Dr Dave for other's (myself often included) inability to follow a highly-technical treatment of what many here consider intuitive subjects. Nor do I expect him to concede points based upon my greater playing skill or experience, as if that somehow crowns me with greater understanding. But if I make a logical point, if I am correct, and if I present an objective analysis - then I believe that Dr Dave will acknowledge it.

I can't help but respect someone with Dr Dave's passion for investigation and explanation, and I'm glad he makes his experimental results available for all to view and critique. It's a tremendous resource. And it takes a reasonable amount of humility just to open your work up to such a level of public scrutiny, knowing that there are bound to be errors found and retractions demanded.

It's about learning and enlightenment, and if it helps my play then so much the better. I've been enlightened by great shooters, and I've been enlightened by great thinkers as well. I certainly enjoy enlightenment far more than "secret systems" that can't be subject to scrutiny.

SpiderMan

Fran Crimi
02-22-2007, 06:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>
In a recent extended discussion, where we disagreed regarding a potential foul in an online video, I felt that Dr Dave did ultimately yield in an amicable fashion. Prior to that, I too had felt that he'd become considerably less open-minded than in years past, but probably I judged too quickly. We all go through phases and moods, don't we?

I certainly don't fault Dr Dave for other's (myself often included) inability to follow a highly-technical treatment of what many here consider intuitive subjects. Nor do I expect him to concede points based upon my greater playing skill or experience, as if that somehow crowns me with greater understanding. But if I make a logical point, if I am correct, and if I present an objective analysis - then I believe that Dr Dave will acknowledge it.

I can't help but respect someone with Dr Dave's passion for investigation and explanation, and I'm glad he makes his experimental results available for all to view and critique. It's a tremendous resource. And it takes a reasonable amount of humility just to open your work up to such a level of public scrutiny, knowing that there are bound to be errors found and retractions demanded.

It's about learning and enlightenment, and if it helps my play then so much the better. I've been enlightened by great shooters, and I've been enlightened by great thinkers as well. I certainly enjoy enlightenment far more than "secret systems" that can't be subject to scrutiny.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

I'm not as convinced as you are that things have changed for the better as of yet, but I'm glad to see that you recall an exchange with positive results.

I agree with you---and I as well, don't think anyone should just blindly yield to another person without good reason just because of who they are. But really, in the instances that come to my mind, which I'm not going to elaborate on, simple common sense would have been all it would have taken. No one can ask for any more than that from another person.

Also, if you're going to declare yourself a professional or an expert in a field, then it's important that you consider the responsibilities that go along with that. That's my biggest gripe here. I work very hard at that. So do others I know.

Fran

Eric.
02-22-2007, 08:57 AM
intercourse, which is a horse, of course, of course.

I really don't have anything meaningful to add. I just figured I'd change the topic, yet again, to take this thread even further off topic /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Eric &gt;gonna play the song backwards

Eric.
02-22-2007, 08:59 AM
What ever happenned to the "original" Dr. D??


Eric

Stretch
02-22-2007, 10:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> What ever happenned to the "original" Dr. D??


Eric <hr /></blockquote>

Good question Eric. Smart Cookie she was. Didn't she put together a rather comprehensive "Pool Work Book" i think she called it. Chock full of drills and things. Had it made up as a binder to lay flat for easy reference at the pool table. Never came across it at the CCS's book booth in Vegas ( staggering the amount of Pool books now compared to a few short years ago ). Still managed to add to my own library with the addition of Banking With The Beard, and Capelle's Practicing Pool. Also in a binder format so you can take it to the table with ya.

Hope she stops in to say hi sometime. She was pretty involved with things. St.

Rich R.
02-22-2007, 10:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> Good question Eric. Smart Cookie she was. Didn't she put together a rather comprehensive "Pool Work Book" i think she called it. Chock full of drills and things. Had it made up as a binder to lay flat for easy reference at the pool table. Never came across it at the CCS's book booth in Vegas ( staggering the amount of Pool books now compared to a few short years ago ). Still managed to add to my own library with the addition of Banking With The Beard, and Capelle's Practicing Pool. Also in a binder format so you can take it to the table with ya.

Hope she stops in to say hi sometime. She was pretty involved with things. St. <hr /></blockquote>
It was called the "Billiards Workbook".

I miss Dr. D. She is a very nice lady and she was always interesting to talk to.
I have heard some things, but it has all been second or third hand information and I don't know if any of it is true.
I hope she is well.

Eric.
02-22-2007, 10:50 AM
I haven't seen Dr. D in the Pool rooms or anywhere , around here (she's from my area). I hope she's well, too.


Eric

SpiderMan
02-22-2007, 11:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>.<hr /></blockquote>I think that was two years ago. I've gotten a lot better since then. <font color="blue"> You are most certainly right and I may have underestimated what two years can accomplish. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif </font color>

You better watch your mouth. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> Is F/L doing a mind meld on you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

The next time I'm visiting family in New Orleans I might have to drive up to Alabama so you can "re-evaluate" my level of play. How much money you got, anyway? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> This is what makes my poor likfe worth living. I am, as we speak, fighting getting moist! I have a little money, a lot of mouth but I remain one of the dinasaurs that will put it all up for grabs. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color>

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

DeeMan
Hates beating guys who have written books....ask 'em... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'll send you a MapQuest. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

This thread is finally getting interesting. BTW, there has been some "private" talk about scheduling another Pettypoint event in April. Maybe Dave can fly in for a weekend, given the opportunity to earn back his airfare from Deeman.

SpiderMan

wolfdancer
02-22-2007, 11:18 AM
I can't help but respect someone with Dr Dave's passion for investigation and explanation, and I'm glad he makes his experimental results available for all to view and critique. It's a tremendous resource. And it takes a reasonable amount of humility just to open your work up to such a level of public scrutiny, knowing that there are bound to be errors found and retractions demanded.

It's about learning and enlightenment, and if it helps my play then so much the better. I've been enlightened by great shooters, and I've been enlightened by great thinkers as well. I certainly enjoy enlightenment far more than "secret systems" that can't be subject to scrutiny.

Well stated!!!
....wish I hadn't skipped school they day they taught English composition.....

dr_dave
02-22-2007, 11:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr>.<hr /></blockquote>I think that was two years ago. I've gotten a lot better since then. <font color="blue"> You are most certainly right and I may have underestimated what two years can accomplish. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif </font color>

You better watch your mouth. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> Is F/L doing a mind meld on you? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

The next time I'm visiting family in New Orleans I might have to drive up to Alabama so you can "re-evaluate" my level of play. How much money you got, anyway? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <font color="blue"> This is what makes my poor likfe worth living. I am, as we speak, fighting getting moist! I have a little money, a lot of mouth but I remain one of the dinasaurs that will put it all up for grabs. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color>

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

DeeMan
Hates beating guys who have written books....ask 'em... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'll send you a MapQuest. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif <hr /></blockquote>

This thread is finally getting interesting. BTW, there has been some "private" talk about scheduling another Pettypoint event in April. Maybe Dave can fly in for a weekend, given the opportunity to earn back his airfare from Deeman.<hr /></blockquote>
April would be tough (if not impossible) for me. However, I would love to hook up with you guys again soon. I'm very available over the summer (after May 16 and before August 8) except for June 17-24. I know summer is not the best time to visit Texas, but I would be willing to make the sacrifice. On second thought, why don't some of you guys plan a visit out to Colorado. Colorado is awesome in the summer, and there are a lot of great players out here, including several female pros. I could put up a few of you guys at my place, and maybe you could help me shoot some high-speed video ... it's a lot easier to do with helpers, especially if they are good pool players. I plan to do a bunch of filming this summer.

I guess I better start practicing more.

Catch you later,
Dave

SpiderMan
02-22-2007, 12:37 PM
I'd enjoy being a video extra for a few days, particularly if I could volunteer a few of my own situations to add to the mix of subject material. Maybe we can talk about this a little more in a month or so?

SpiderMan

dr_dave
02-22-2007, 12:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I'd enjoy being a video extra for a few days, particularly if I could volunteer a few of my own situations to add to the mix of subject material. Maybe we can talk about this a little more in a month or so?<hr /></blockquote>Sounds good. Try to convince Deeman to join us.

Of course you would be welcome to try anything you want with my equipment, within reason.

Regards,
Dave

Deeman3
02-23-2007, 08:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Maybe Dave can fly in for a weekend, given the opportunity to earn back his airfare from Deeman.<hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
April would be tough (if not impossible) for me. <font color="blue"> Dave, watch out or you could beocme the vicgim of DeeMan T-Shirt Challenge.JK,JK,JK /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color> However, I would love to hook up with you guys again soon. I'm very available over the summer (after May 16 and before August 8) except for June 17-24. I know summer is not the best time to visit Texas, but I would be willing to make the sacrifice. On second thought, why don't some of you guys plan a visit out to Colorado. <font color="blue"> I think Spiderman may have outstanding warrants in Colorado</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Colorado is awesome in the summer, and there are a lot of great players out here, including several female pros. I could put up a few of you guys at my place, and maybe you could help me shoot some high-speed video ... it's a lot easier to do with helpers, especially if they are good pool players. I plan to do a bunch of filming this summer. <font color="blue">Will this involve any gratituous nudity? If so, I'm in..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif </font color>

I guess I better start practicing more. <font color="blue"> I'll send you a chrome pole... /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font color>

Catch you later,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

DeeMan
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

dr_dave
02-23-2007, 09:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Maybe Dave can fly in for a weekend, given the opportunity to earn back his airfare from Deeman.<hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
April would be tough (if not impossible) for me. <font color="blue"> Dave, watch out or you could beocme the vicgim of DeeMan T-Shirt Challenge.JK,JK,JK /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color> However, I would love to hook up with you guys again soon. I'm very available over the summer (after May 16 and before August 8) except for June 17-24. I know summer is not the best time to visit Texas, but I would be willing to make the sacrifice. On second thought, why don't some of you guys plan a visit out to Colorado. <font color="blue"> I think Spiderman may have outstanding warrants in Colorado</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Colorado is awesome in the summer, and there are a lot of great players out here, including several female pros. I could put up a few of you guys at my place, and maybe you could help me shoot some high-speed video ... it's a lot easier to do with helpers, especially if they are good pool players. I plan to do a bunch of filming this summer. <font color="blue">Will this involve any gratituous nudity? If so, I'm in..... /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif </font color>

I guess I better start practicing more. <font color="blue"> I'll send you a chrome pole... /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font color>

Catch you later,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

DeeMan
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Very funny; although, I had no idea you would be so willing to perform your deviant sexual acts in front of a camera, especially a high-tech high-speed video camera. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif I would prefer to use my expensive high-speed video equipment for more scientific purposes, but if you need this incentive to visit me, then I will be happy to film you with this small caveat: Spiderman must be there to help me so I won't have to look at you as I push the buttons on the fancy camera.

BTW, there is no need to send your chrome pole ahead of time. I'm sure we can set it up fairly quickly in my basement when you arrive, with plenty of time left over for your high-speed porno film debut. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though, I really hope you can arrange to visit with Spiderman. I'm sure we would work well together and have a great time. Also, I can set up some games (and "action" if you want) with some of the local players ... there's some great talent out here. I have a table in my basement, and I live 1.5 blocks from the best pool hall in town (where the best players hang out) and 6 blocks from the 2nd best pool hall in town (with the nicest tables, prettiest girls, and in-house microbrewery).

Catch you later,
Dave

Deeman3
02-23-2007, 09:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dr_dave:</font><hr> Very funny; although, I had no idea you would be so willing to perform your deviant sexual acts in front of a camera, especially a high-tech high-speed video camera. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <font color="blue"> The only special equipment that would be needed is a very good Macro lens.... </font color> I would prefer to use my expensive high-speed video equipment for more scientific purposes, but if you need this incentive to visit me, then I will be happy to film you with this small caveat: Spiderman must be there to help me so I won't have to look at you as I push the buttons on the fancy camera. <font color="blue"> Hey, can't blame you, I won't evne look at myslef in the mirror naked anymore! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif </font color>

BTW, there is no need to send your chrome pole ahead of time. I'm sure we can set it up fairly quickly in my basement when you arrive, with plenty of time left over for your high-speed porno film debut. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="blue">That's all i need, to get on the sex offenders list in Colorado. Oh! That's right, there's no penalty for that there, even for NBA stars! </font color>

Seriously though, I really hope you can arrange to visit with Spiderman. I'm sure we would work well together and have a great time. Also, I can set up some games (and "action" if you want) with some of the local players ... there's some great talent out here. I have a table in my basement, and I live 1.5 blocks from the best pool hall in town (where the best players hang out) and 6 blocks from the 2nd best pool hall in town (with the nicest tables, prettiest girls, and in-house microbrewery).

Catch you later,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> We can see about it later. I'll be in Canada over this next weekend and I hear there's a plot to keep me from returing to the U.S. on Monday. Anyone know my chances of getting snowed in at Toronto on Monday afternoon? </font color>

DeeMan

Qtec
02-23-2007, 09:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Spiderman- I would love to hook up with you guys again soon. I'm very available over the summer
I'd enjoy being a video extra for a few days, particularly if I could volunteer a few of my own situations

Dr Dave- Sounds good. Try to convince Deeman to join us.

Of course you would be welcome to try anything you want with my equipment , within reason.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

lets try and stick to the subject guys!
Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

dr_dave
02-23-2007, 09:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Spiderman- I would love to hook up with you guys again soon. I'm very available over the summer
I'd enjoy being a video extra for a few days, particularly if I could volunteer a few of my own situations

Dr Dave- Sounds good. Try to convince Deeman to join us.

Of course you would be welcome to try anything you want with my equipment , within reason.

Regards,
Dave <hr /></blockquote>

LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

lets try and stick to the subject guys!
Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>Good one! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

You Netherlanders have your minds in the gutter too much. Being from New Orleans (the predominant US city of sin), I can relate.

Cheers,
Dave

Qtec
02-23-2007, 10:07 AM
Dave, I am not Dutch. What you are experiencing is what we call ' ENGELS HUMOR'.

Q