View Full Version : Future Tips,Phenolic tips,and synthetic leather
02-24-2002, 02:56 AM
(This post is copied from my response to someone that was asking about Future synthetic tips,and comparing them to phenolic.)
I have used them for years,and absolutely believe in them. I am not using one at the moment,because I don't have any. A close friend of mine is lifelong friends with the guy that makes these tips,so I "got the hookup",so to speak. I asked him about getting some 2 days ago,and he said he would try to call him. The black one is best for breaking/jumping,but they can be a pain to install,as the compound they are made of is kind of slick on the bottom. I have had good luck sanding the backs down with 100 grit paper,the adhesive backed kind,glued down to a piece of steel to obtain optimum flatness. When gluing,apply a small amount of glue to the ferrule,spread it around with the tip,then blow on it and let it dry for a few seconds. Apply a little more glue,spread it around,then center the tip and place the tip against a door facing or other solid surface,and gently lean into it for 10 seconds,then let it sit for 10 minutes or so. These tips have a tendency to develop stress cracks after a while,so they are by no means permanent. I have also never installed one and cut it down on a lathe,just a Porper pencil sharpener type cutting tool. Using this type of cutter,these tips peel like an apple,as opposed to turning into dust like a leather tip. Hope this helps. Tommy D.
03-07-2002, 10:08 AM
Are there any particular ferrules that work best with the phenolic tips, or perhaps more important, are there any particular ferrule materials that won't hold the glue to a phenolic tip?
I got a brown one. Is that a whole different type of phenolic than the black one? Can you always go by the color to tell you what type of phenolic it is?
03-07-2002, 11:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>
I got a brown one. Is that a whole different type of phenolic than the black one? Can you always go by the color to tell you what type of phenolic it is? <hr></blockquote>
There are probably a thousand different ways to process phenolic resin. The color won't mean a thing, unless that particular color is a particular phenolic resin that is always used (in pool). Canvas, paper, or cotton based phenolic all come in tan, dk. brown and black, IIRC. Melamine can be white or gray. So, you can't tell just by the color. It's tough to tell by any other method, too.
03-30-2002, 01:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Tommy_Davidson:</font><hr>I have used them for years,and absolutely believe in them. <hr></blockquote>Anybody else popping with plastic? How do you like it? Getting any extra speed on the break? OK with control? Out of control?
03-30-2002, 04:16 AM
> Tom,I use such a flat tip on my break cues that control is rarely a problem. The tip on my break cue is not dead flat,but pretty close. Instead of a "nickel" or "dime" radius,I shape mine to about the radius of the cue ball itself. What this does is increase the surface contact between tip and ball,giving me what I feel is a bigger "sweet spot",like having an oversized head on your driver in golf. I find that I can miss my intended spot on the cue ball a little bit,and still get the desired result,which is killing the ball one diamond to my side of the side pockets. Anyone that has seen the Accu-Stats video of the '99 U. S. Open finals between Johnny Archer and Jeremy Jones knows what this looks like. Johnny was just killing Jeremy on the break,cue ball jumping about 18 inches in the air,coming back to Johnny in a straight line,bouncing twice,and dying about one diamond to the breaker's side of the side pocket. The really strong thing was where the one was going. When breaking from the side rail,the one normally goes to the opposite side of the table,hits short of the side pocket,then travels toward the diagonally opposite corner pocket,like a long cross corner bank. In Johnny's case,the one was coming back to his right,in a straight line with the corner pocket,which is very hard to do with from the left side of the break box. Nick Varner said during the commentary something to the effect of Johnny using a technique using throw,to make the one ball come back towards him,without it going to the side rail. With a flat tip,this technique is a little easier. The Future tips do deliver the ball a little "hotter" than a leather tip,making it ideal for maximum energy transfer. If you do get some,make sure that you reshape it a little flatter than the "dime" radius they are pre-shaped to,these tips unless well maintained get a little slick,and a rounder shape will miscue every time if the break is struck the least bit bad. With a flat shape like I described above,when using these tips I use a Porcupine Tapper and really stick the needles in deep,then chalk well. When struck well,the tip really "bites" the ball nice,leaving you with a nice big,round chalk mark on the ball,a sure sign that you hit the shot well. When breaking,this makes it easier to control the ball when adding a little extra stroke or muscle to the shot. I got this idea from Ed Sheahan,then owner of Falcon Cues,who said he got the idea from Earl Strickland,who said that he did indeed experiment with it when I asked him. These tips also make jumping ridiculously easy,as the plastic used in them is almost as hard as the brown or black phenolic used in joint collars,but chalks better than phenolic,which I don't see holding chalk very well. Tommy D.
03-30-2002, 11:04 AM
I will tell you what I know. The brown ones you got from me are paper base. They have been cut in such a way that the paper is layered. The color is the paper that is used, and the phenolic resin I wound assume in clear, but I think it darkens the paper when the resin is added like when you put finish on wood and it darkens. The black phenolics have the color added to the resin, or the base may be dyed, or both like in the Atlas Double black. Before they came up with this, the black phenolic collars often had gray areas in them and the weave could be seen easily. You see this on older Szamboties, Balabushkas, Joss's or any that were in to using phenolic collars or parts. In the catalogs when they refer to phenolics they call the brown Natural leaving me to assume, that is the natural color of the material. The only difference would be, the material that is used for the base, and there are some different resins used, but I don't think the resin makes any difference for our purprises as long as they are not so hard as to be brittle. Different manufactures often coin names for their product, but I have bought from different makers and can't see any differences. Maybe it would matter if I were building something for NASA but I can't tell any difference. Paper, cloth, linen, canvas, all are base materials and found in the catalogs. I have experimented with most of them and did not really find any difference between them, as far as would they make the ball jump. I like the brown paper because when installed it looks just like a normal tip and it can be glued with anything you would glue on any tip with. I also think because the paper is layered, when shaped they seem to take chalk a little better then tips made from rods. In the end they are all hard as can be, and will all jump superior to any leather tip. Maybe someone has more to add, but that is most of what I know.
03-30-2002, 01:22 PM
Thanks QGuy. I'm always curious about things and find it interesting to know how things are put together; in fact I often feel compelled to know, whether I really need to or not./ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif I'll be getting your tips on pretty soon and will report on the results!
03-30-2002, 02:34 PM
Be sure to do that, even if you hate them. I always like feedback. Don't worry be honest.
03-31-2002, 09:55 PM
I had a "Bungee" tip and a shorter ferrule installed on my Meucci jump cue and it is AMAZING how easily I can jump balls.
I am told the combination of the shorter ferrule and rock-hard tip absorb less energy than leather tips and standard ferrules, hence, easier to jump.
I would think the same principles would apply to breaking (although point-of-contact would be more critical.)
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